how bad will this hurt-research

[jon stewart]

So many of us here have done lab research in order to increase our chances of med school acceptance. i was in a lab for a while, but the lab let me go because they were getting busy. I didn't really care because i hated going to lab and running gels and preparing solutions for the gels etc. Its fair to say that i don't have any research basically since i didn't do that much while i was in that lab.

Now here is my question, i don't particularly like being in labs playing with centrifuges and fancy pipetts. But i also don't want to screw my chances of med school because i dont have any lab research. Its my last year and i want to try and do those summer research internships next summer if i have to.

How much will it hurt my chances if i have no lab research? I know that schools like Harvard, jhu, Washington, Stanford and those alike want research in candidates. Can someone please name some schools that they have been admitted to w/o any research experience. i hope these arnt mostly state schools because that will just support my fears that its better to have at least some research just so i can "apply broadly."

in short, i will do it if it will give me the option of applying to more schools when the app cycle begins. My numbers arnt great or anything so i am one of those who will definitely need to apply broadly when the time comes..

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[soccerpunk60]

have you thought about nursing? that might be a smarter path at this point for you..

 

[littlealex]

I thought the rule of thumb is to do things you enjoy. Research isn't a hard requirement, but you should have other impressive ECs to bolster your application.

I know people without research that got into Yale, but his ECs and GPA/MCAT were all amazing.

It's better to focus your energy on volunteering in a capacity you enjoy instead of forcing yourself to do crappy research jobs. With that said, I think you just didn't find a good research opportunity. If you had your own project, you'd realize that the fancy pipettes and centrifuge are only tools used to help you answer a question. If you're able to ask questions and work on the answers, research is really, really fun.

 

[shevie]

research isnt a prereq the same way orgo is, but it has come to be "expected" these days that you have some sort of exposure to medical research. Look, if you have a 4.0, 42 MCAT, have volunteered at a shelter for six years, and went to africa with the peace corps or wherever they go, then ya, you might be able to get in without much research experience, and the few months you had in a lab running gels might qualify. But really. If you hate labs, there are other sort of things you can do to get your hands dirty ie clinical research! fine a job as a research assistant in a hospital, something like that. No one call tell you for sure if it will hurt your chances though.
It would help if we knew a bit more about your background.

 

[HumidBeing]

You have exposure to a research environment. You've met that benchmark. It isn't necessary to have done independent research, be published, etc. You can talk about what you experienced in the lab while you were there - how you grew through the experience.

Summer internships don't sound like the right avenue for you. Their purpose is to help develop and encourage the future scientists of tomorrow. Why not spend the time focusing on EC's in areas the DO interest you, perhaps things in volunteer areas? Developing who YOU are is much more important to your success than forcing yourself to participate in activities that don't suit your personality. You will get far more out of activities that you enjoy than ones you are doing just to fill a checkoff list. You will get more mileage out of them, too, because you will be able to speak with enthusiasm. It's much more difficult to sell yourself through activities that you endured than activities that excited you.

 

[shevie]

oh and one more thing. I am absolutely not interested getting an MD/PhD, or doing any sort of lab research once i finish med school. So the stuff going on right now in the lab, especially the more basic science oriented projects, seems boring and random to me. But if youre lucky enough to find a position where they give you the freedom to ask your own questions, think for yourself, help design a project and carry it out, its not as bad as cleaning pipets, calibrating centrifuges, and running other peoples gels. Would I want to do this for the rest of my life? definitely not. Would I want to do this for anohter YEAR? probably not either. But another six or seven months?? Its fun and exciting to know that youre trying to solve a problem and to have to be creative in terms of ways to go about doing that.

 

[jon stewart]

thanks for your responses,

sheive, i bet it would be a lot more fun and interesting to do your inquires, but before you get to that stage dont you need like a lot of lab experience, and dont you have to be in the same lab for a while before you are given the freedom to do your own thing? I just feel at this late in the game i dont have the time to get to that level of experience.

some background, my gpa is a 3.5 i am taking mcat next may. I know it will largely depend on my mcat score, but i am thinking about applying in 08 for 09. This is my last year too, so lab research options will be limited once i leave the campus.

In my year off i plan to work as a CNA, of course i will be looking to get that certification too.

 

[Jolie South]

just thought that I would throw something out there. . . .

I did research for a year. I had my own project where I did everything and the PI just gave me guidance. Even in this situation, you will still make your own media, run gels, spend hours in the lab on time consuming and tedious experiments, make viral/DNA stocks, autoclave, take care of cell cultures, clean glassware etc. This is part of lab work. You will not escape it.

I would say that 90% of my time was doing the above things and the remaining 10% was doing the other stuff (the part that everyone thinks is so "glamorous"). Plus, I was only doing my part for my project, not taking care of the entire lab.

So, even if you do get your own project, there aren't any magical fairies that will make it so you never have to do "scut" work.

 

[fireflygirl]

I have never set foot in a lab and have already been accepted into medical schools. On the flip side, I have a lot of good ECs and I have done clinical research. I have a friend right now that is interested in being an academic physician w/o going the MD/PhD route and has interviewed at Harvard, UWash, Columbia....etc because of her strong profile and because of her work and interest in clinical research (we work for the same hospital). I think taking the time to do some form of research is important. And it's not just for your application as it is more for understanding how collaborative medicine is and for understanding how so much of the imperative scientific work that comes out of research is done (challenges, politics...etc)

If you don't like bench work, then like Shevie said, try to find a place where you can ask your own questions and help be apart of the framework of the research project. I am doing that right now in the clinical research that I do in Endocrinology. I think there can be a lot of opportunity and flexibility in research but you have to look hard and if possible, go to a large academic oriented hospital where there are several, diverse opportunities.

Nonetheless, I am not a big fan of clinical research myself but it's taught me a lot and frankly, it's good for the application. If you really just can't stand it, then find other medically oriented opportunities that give you a chance to really express why you like medicine both in the personal statement and in interviews.

 

[BigMDT]

do more research.

if you want to break into top 15 schools....you should.

top 15 is defined by research.....for example at yale, they REQUIRE you to do a research. and at harvard MOST students graduate in 5 years bc they are doing research projects. (not all but most)


its not necessary but can bolster your app if you do more, in my opinion

 

[drlook]

Why don't you do some clinical research? Research isn't limited to just purely scientific research. I work in clinical research. I coordinate a brain imaging study, I've seen it through from start to finish. I've also worked in an animal lab before (for 1.5 years). I hated it. I love clinical research. I get to work with patients and subjects very closely (they spend all their time with me... except for one hour with the doc), I manage the whole study, and it is great research AND clinical experience. I'm surprised how many people on SDN don't seem to suggest clinical research. You get the best of both worlds. Seriously - look into it.

 

[thejonqproject]

research is a little bs as an undergrad from my point of view but its just one of those necessary evils you have to go through if u want to get into the top 15 . the top 15 are ranked such because of research, so ... if thats not important to you then just do whatever .

 

[brianmartin]

But i also don't want to screw my chances of med school because i dont have any lab research.

You will not "screw" your chances at medical school if you haven't been a lab rat. That's just....gah...SDN people are insane.

You are aware that the vast majority of physicians are not researchers, right? If you really loved research, you'd already be going for an MD/PHD. If that's not in your plans, don't even worry about it. Sure it helps to be familiar with basic concepts of research, but that's only so you can comprehend journal articles.

Even then, UpToDate does a great job of "comprehending" them for you. If you want to be a clinician, there is no reason to beat yourself up over not being a research superstar. Nobody really cares (unless of course, you are applying to a big research school).

 

[alwaysaangel]

As people have said - if you're looking to get into a research oriented school that mostly trains academic physicians - then yes you would do well to get more research in.

But you already did research. Its not like you have NONE on your application.

But outside of the research heavy schools not having much research won't really hurt you. I had zilch and got into GWU, UK, NYMC, and UC Irvine.

 

[Maxprime]

Just spend that time doing something else to help get you in.

Remember that the "top" schools are generally ranked by research - medical education is pretty uniform. If you don't want to do research, why go to Harvard and be in $250k in debt when you want to be a PCP?

 

[jon stewart]

what is clinical research exactly? From what i gather it seems like you would do it at a hospital or some sort of Medicare facility?

Do you go up to patients and ask them questions about drugs? their medical conditions?

 

[BrokenGlass]

http://www.stanford.edu/group/spa/gstart/

click on Pre-Med Myths and read about importance of research. The person who wrote it graduated form UCSF and did his residency at Stanford. This document is about 7 years old and Stanford now places more emphasis on research than they did 5 years ago.

 

[CCLCMer]

How much will it hurt my chances if i have no lab research? I know that schools like Harvard, jhu, Washington, Stanford and those alike want research in candidates. Can someone please name some schools that they have been admitted to w/o any research experience. i hope these arnt mostly state schools because that will just support my fears that its better to have at least some research just so i can "apply broadly."

in short, i will do it if it will give me the option of applying to more schools when the app cycle begins. My numbers arnt great or anything so i am one of those who will definitely need to apply broadly when the time comes..

Only a few research MD programs like CCLCM require research from applicants. Not having more research experience won't hurt your chances at most schools. But spending a year or even a summer doing something that you absolutely hate and then having to pretend you enjoyed it at your interviews CAN sink you. Most people aren't as good at acting as they think they are. If I were you, I'd do something else instead that you enjoy. You can try clinical research like some people suggested, or try something else entirely. There's no shame in saying that you tried bench research and it just wasn't for you. I am planning to be a physician scientist, and I don't much like pipetting or centrifuging either. One summer of that was enough for me, but I'm going into clinical research, which I really like.

 

[alwaysaangel]

what is clinical research exactly? From what i gather it seems like you would do it at a hospital or some sort of Medicare facility?

Do you go up to patients and ask them questions about drugs? their medical conditions?

Lab research (or benchwork) is what you did. Working with the molecular aspect of something. A lot of gels, and experiments.

Clinical research is sort of a step beyond that. Its taking something that was made or figured out in a lab and applying it to patients. So when they talk about trial (or experimental) treatments - thats clinical research. There is a PI behind that experimental treatment who will ultimately publish the results and hopefully end up with a usable treatment. It could be a lot more than just that - but thats one way to think of the difference. Basically when you're doing clinical research there are patients involved either using a drug, trying a treatment, or being tested for something.

 

[jon stewart]

already sounds like something i would be interested in! I like the patient contact aspect. How do i find positions like this? On the job section of hospital websites? what are the positions called? clinical researcher or something? researchers aide? this is completely new so i have no idea about anything!

 

[shevie]

thanks for your responses,

sheive, i bet it would be a lot more fun and interesting to do your inquires, but before you get to that stage dont you need like a lot of lab experience, and dont you have to be in the same lab for a while before you are given the freedom to do your own thing? I just feel at this late in the game i dont have the time to get to that level of experience.

Im doing an NIH IRTA fellowship right now, and honestly, although I came to the lab with two summers of research experience in a related field, that is absolutely not required at all. There is another post-bacc fellow in the lab, who was an engineering major, and had NEVER even set foot in a lab before she interviewed for jobs at the NIH. I think a certain amount of intelligence is required, good grades (3.5 should be fine...dont let anyone tell you otherwise), but you dont need previous research experience to get you in the door. I think you just need to be able to demonstrate the ability to think independently and creatively.
If I had to do it all over again, I dont know if wouldve necessarily chosen the lab that Im in now, even though its a renal lab and that is really my research interest, its much more basic science oriented than I wouldve wanted. But the ppl I work with are really awesome, and so for a year, its fine.
But no. I dont think doing research requires prior research expeience. thats kinda like a catch 22 then right?

already sounds like something i would be interested in! I like the patient contact aspect. How do i find positions like this? On the job section of hospital websites? what are the positions called? clinical researcher or something? researchers aide? this is completely new so i have no idea about anything!

I did clinical research (in the nephrology and vascular medicine departments b/c of my obsession w/ kidneys as i said above) for two summers and really enjoyed it. There is much more patient contact. Youre not running westerns all day...
Honestly, I found my job because I was shadowing a Nephrologist and eventually met others in the department, and one asked me if I wanted to work on a research study that summer and potentially help w/ some publications, and I took him up on it, and my vascular research after my sophomore year, was kindof a result of becoming friendly with some vascular surgeons who were collaborating with the renal guys...so a really good place to start looking, is by making connections and talking to people....But you can check hospital websites, I guess youd be looking for job positions like "research coordinator," "research assistant," "patient coordinator" "clinical research associate" etc. GOod luck!!