How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

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@JackShephard

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Interesting perspective...

How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...tor-became-the-most-miserable-profession.html
Nine of 10 doctors discourage others from joining the profession, and 300 physicians commit suicide every year. When did it get this bad?
By the end of this year, it’s estimated that 300 physicians will commit suicide. While depression amongst physicians is not new—a few years back, it was named the second-most suicidal occupation—the level of sheer unhappiness amongst physicians is on the rise.

Simply put, being a doctor has become amiserable and humiliating undertaking. Indeed, many doctors feel that America has declared war on physicians—and both physicians and patients are the losers.

Not surprisingly, many doctors want out. Medical students opt for high-paying specialties so they can retire as quickly as possible. Physician MBA programs—that promise doctors a way into management—are flourishing. The website known as the Drop-Out-Club—which hooks doctors up with jobs at hedge funds and venture capital firms—has a solid following. In fact, physicians are so bummed out that 9 out of 10 doctors would discourage anyone from entering the profession.

It’s hard for anyone outside the profession to understand just how rotten the job has become—and what bad news that is for America’s health care system. Perhaps that’s why author Malcolm Gladwell recently implied that to fix the healthcare crisis, the public needs to understand what it’s like to be a physician. Imagine, for things to get better for patients, they need to empathize withphysicians—that’s a tall order in our noxious and decidedly un-empathetic times.

After all, the public sees ophthalmologists and radiologists making out like bandits and wonder why they should feel anything but scorn for such doctors—especially when Americans haven’t gotten a raise in decades. But being a primary care physician is not like being, say, a plastic surgeon—a profession that garners both respect and retirement savings. Given that primary care doctors do the work that no one else is willing to do, being a primary care physician is more like being a janitor—but without the social status or union protections.

Unfortunately, things are only getting worse for most doctors, especially those who still accept health insurance. Just processing the insurance forms costs $58 for every patient encounter, according to Dr. Stephen Schimpff, an internist and former CEO of University of Maryland Medical Center who is writing a book about the crisis in primary care. To make ends meet, physicians have had to increase the number of patients they see. The end result is that the average face-to-face clinic visit lasts about 12 minutes.

Neither patients nor doctors are happy about that. What worries many doctors, however, is that the Affordable Care Act has codified this broken system into law. While forcing everyone to buy health insurance, ACA might have mandated a uniform or streamlined claims procedure that would have gone a long way to improving access to care. As Malcolm Gladwell noted, “You don’t train someone for all of those years in [medicine]… and then have them run a claims processing operation for insurance companies.”

To make ends meet, physicians have had to increase the number of patients they see. The end result is that the average face-to-face clinic visit lasts about 12 minutes.
In fact, difficulty dealing with insurers has caused many physicians to close their practices and become employees. But for patients, seeing an employed doctor doesn’t give them more time with the doctor—since employed physicians also have high patient loads. “A panel size of 2,000 to 2,500 patients is too many,” says Dr. Schimpff. That’s the number of patients primary care doctors typically are forced to carry—and that means seeing 24 or more patients a day, and often these patients have 10 or more medical problems. As any seasoned physician knows, this is do-able, but it’s certainly not optimal.

Most patients have experienced the rushed clinic visit—and that’s where the breakdown in good medical care starts. “Doctors who are in a rush, don’t have the time to listen,” says Dr. Schimpff. “Often, patients get referred to specialists when the problem can be solved in the office visit.” It’s true that specialist referrals are on the rise, but the time crunch also causes doctors to rely on guidelines instead of personally tailoring medical care. Unfortunately, mindlessly following guidelines can result in bad outcomes.

Yet physicians have to go along, constantly trying to improve their “productivity” and patient satisfaction scores—or risk losing their jobs. Industry leaders are fixated on patient satisfaction, despite the fact that high scores are correlated with worse outcomes and higher costs. Indeed, trying to please whatever patient comes along destroys the integrity of our work. It’s a fact that doctors acquiesce to patient demands—for narcotics, X-rays, doctor’s notes—despite what survey advocates claim. And now that Medicare payments will be tied to patient satisfaction—this problem will get worse. Doctors need to have the ability to say no. If not, when patients go to see the doctor, they won’t actually have a physician—they’ll have a hostage.

But the primary care doctor doesn’t have the political power to say no to anything—so the “to-do” list continues to lengthen. A stunning and unmanageable number of forms—often illegible—show up daily on a physician’s desk needing to be signed. Reams of lab results, refill requests, emails, and callbacks pop up continually on the computer screen. Calls to plead with insurance companies are peppered throughout the day. Every decision carries with it an implied threat of malpractice litigation. Failing to attend to these things brings prompt disciplining or patient complaint. And mercilessly, all of these tasks have to be done on the exhausted doctor’s personal time.

Almost comically, the response of medical leadership—their solution— is to call for more physician testing. In fact, the American Board of Internal Medicine(ABIM)—in its own act of hostage-taking—has decided that in addition to being tested every ten years, doctors must comply with new, costly, "two year milestones." For many physicians, if they don't comply be the end of this month, the ABIM will advertise the doctor's "lack of compliance" on their website.

In an era when nurse practitioners and physician assistants have shown that they can provide excellent primary care, it’s nonsensical to raise the barriers for physicians to participate. In an era when you can call up guidelines on your smartphone, demanding more physician testing is a ludicrous and self-serving response.

It is tone deaf. It is punitive. It is wrong. And practicing doctors can’t do a damn thing about it. No wonder doctors are suicidal. No wonder young doctors want nothing to do with primary care.

But what is a bit of a wonder is how things got this bad.

Certainly, the relentlessly negative press coverage of physicians sets the tone. “There’s a media narrative that blames physicians for things the doctor has no control over,” says Kevin Pho, MD, an internist with a popular blog where physicians often vent their frustrations. Indeed, in the popular press recently doctors have been held responsible for everything from the wheelchair-unfriendly furniture to lab fees for pap smears.

The meme is that doctors are getting away with something and need constant training, watching and regulating. With this in mind, it’s almost a reflex for policy makers to pile on the regulations. Regulating the physician is an easy sell because it is a fantasy—a Freudian fever dream—the wish to diminish, punish and control a disappointing parent, give him a report card, and tell him to wash his hands.

To be sure many people with good intentions are working toward solving the healthcare crisis. But the answers they’ve come up with are driving up costs and driving out doctors. Maybe it’s too much to ask for empathy, and maybe physician lives don’t matter to most people.

But for America’s health to be safeguarded, the wellbeing of America’s caretakers is going to have to start mattering to someone.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...tor-became-the-most-miserable-profession.html

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great article, really gets me excited for my future...
 
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300 doctors commit suicide each year?
 
Posted this earlier today on my FB page and its gotten tons of sympathetic comments from my friends, even the non-medical types.
Was very surprised how accurate this article was on details, including the ABIM screwing IM doctors and those who specialize after IM, with respect to their MOC requirements every 2 years :eek:, and how it already makes a high barrier to entry even tougher. It's like they WANT people to not go for this profession.
 
My favorite part of this article was this:
After all, the public sees ophthalmologists and radiologists making out like bandits and wonder why they should feel anything but scorn for such doctors—especially when Americans haven’t gotten a raise in decades.

Because, you know, the solution to ending this negative perception of physicians is by taking potshots at your colleagues in other specialties. :rolleyes:

That aside, pretty well done article.
 
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Wow the comments on this at TDB have exploded since I read this yesterday. The article is well-written and accurate (but still a depressing read), but usually on that website the comments are where you end up finding the real sadness.
 
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Dude, I just shed a metaphorical tear reading this article.
 
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There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.
 
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There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.
harvey-dent-press-conference-snapshot20080504111022.jpg
 
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There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.

Based on the posting history of multiple people on this forum just within the past week, this is fundamentally impossible (or at least improbably).
 
There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.
I guess you are being too optimistic... I really think it will take a LONG time before physicians will be able to affect public sentiment. From personal anecdotes, it not as much the poor people who hate physician; it is the middle class people with BA/BS/MS/MA degrees who are stuck for many years in some jobs paying them 40k-70k/year with no jobs security and with no prospect of hitting 6-figure salary in years. When you talk to these people they always say: 'I have a BS or a master degree in <insert>, I could have been a physician if I wanted to. I don't understand why physicians make so much money.' This is a sentiment that I have noticed from acquaintances, coworkers and neighbors and two of my friends who are civil engineers... The media also does not help when they keep publishing stories specifically about anesthesiologist among one of the top paying jobs in the US with 300k+/year salary...
 
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I guess you are being too optimistic... I really think it will take a LONG time before physicians will be able to affect public sentiment. From personal anecdotes, it not as much the poor people who hate physician; it is the middle class people with BA/BS/MS/MA degrees who are stuck for many years in some jobs paying them 40k-70k/year with no jobs security and with no prospect of hitting 6-figure salary in years. When you talk to these people they always say: 'I have a BS or a master degree in <insert>, I could have been a physician if I wanted to. I don't understand why physicians make so much money.' This is a sentiment that I have noticed from acquaintances, coworkers and neighbors and two of my friends who are civil engineers... The media also does not help when they keep talking/writing specifically about anesthesiologist among one of the top paying job in the US with 300k+/year salary...

Don't tuck tail and run

Mel%20Gibson%20as%20William%20Wallace%20in%20the%20film%20Braveheart-1782041.jpg
 
There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.
We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.

That will be difficult given this profession is constantly preoccupied with creating hierarchy among everything and everyone that surrounds us, whether its colleagues (usmle "licensing" scores, class rank - dumb vs smart doctors), specialties (my specialty is better than yours, dumb stereotypes, usmle scores go to specialty X or Y) or institutions (high tier vs low tier institutions). There is always an attitude among colleagues of "my specialty..." or "my institution is better than yours". Just look at this article... could not resist making a remark about other specialties when it was not even necessary to do so.
 
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I guess you are being too optimistic... I really think it will take a LONG time before physicians will be able to affect public sentiment. From personal anecdotes, it not as much the poor people who hate physician; it is the middle class people with BA/BS/MS/MA degrees who are stuck for many years in some jobs paying them 40k-70k/year with no jobs security and with no prospect of hitting 6-figure salary in years. When you talk to these people they always say: 'I have a BS or a master degree in <insert>, I could have been a physician if I wanted to. I don't understand why physicians make so much money.' This is a sentiment that I have noticed from acquaintances, coworkers and neighbors and two of my friends who are civil engineers... The media also does not help when they keep publishing stories specifically about anesthesiologist among one of the top paying jobs in the US with 300k+/year salary...

yeah, especially nurses and mid-levels are extremely resentful of physicians and they tend to be extremely vocal about it especially to patients
 
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.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.

yes i posted this as well the other week. people do NOT put down any other speciality and do NOT say that a speciality makes too much money..it'll come back and hurt your field as well..you do NOT want government regulating your field even more than they already do
 
I guess you are being too optimistic... I really think it will take a LONG time before physicians will be able to affect public sentiment. From personal anecdotes, it not as much the poor people who hate physician; it is the middle class people with BA/BS/MS/MA degrees who are stuck for many years in some jobs paying them 40k-70k/year with no jobs security and with no prospect of hitting 6-figure salary in years. When you talk to these people they always say: 'I have a BS or a master degree in <insert>, I could have been a physician if I wanted to. I don't understand why physicians make so much money.' This is a sentiment that I have noticed from acquaintances, coworkers and neighbors and two of my friends who are civil engineers... The media also does not help when they keep publishing stories specifically about anesthesiologist among one of the top paying jobs in the US with 300k+/year salary...

be pro-active, for every government-backed media article bashing the reimbursement of ANY speciality, post a comment on that article to educate the average person about the truth
 
I know its probably a controversial opinion, but I'd say most docs are underpaid. Even the highest earning fields should make more.

A relative of mine is in marketing for a life-sciences supply company. She does an honest 2-3 hrs worth of work per day and spends 4 months out of the year traveling to conferences in major metro areas, staying in 4-5 star hotels, and eating at nice restaurants. Her base salary is higher than the Medscape average for pediatric/IM generalists and on top of that, she's eligible for a nice productivity bonus each year.

Have some pride in this fine profession, folks. We are all underpaid.
 
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There will come a tipping point. It is always darkest before dawn. We will be on the right side of this....the question is how long will the dark period be. We will be in the wilderness for at least the next 10 years, maybe less if certain things transpire. The sad part is it will take bad outcomes by other providers and a mass exodus of some of America's most talented minds for the "deciders" to say....oops.

We should start with this rule: Never speak ill of another specialty. Period. A house divided will fall.

I agree that we will head into a dark period but the other side looks bright.

That will be difficult given this profession is constantly preoccupied with creating hierarchy among everything and everyone that surrounds us, whether its colleagues (usmle "licensing" scores, class rank - dumb vs smart doctors), specialties (my specialty is better than yours, dumb stereotypes, usmle scores go to specialty X or Y) or institutions (high tier vs low tier institutions). There is always an attitude among colleagues of "my specialty..." or "my institution is better than yours". Just look at this article... could not resist making a remark about other specialties when it was not even necessary to do so.

I understand why some of the primary care physicians can lash out. I've heard countless specialists degrade their field and say how trivial it is, at the same time these doctors lack the money, prestige and respect that is garnered by the medical elite. It's a much more stinging criticism when top medical students/physicians in the highest regarded and rewarded fields claim that primary care should be done by midlevels (That's a separate question and I don't know the answer, but I do know that it's not winning any primary doc friends). So while everyone bashes, I sympathize more with the lowest paid and least respected physicians.

With that said, I agree that we should avoid attacking each other.
 
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I'm all confused by all this darkness. Are you all saying get out before you even start?
 
I'm all confused by all this darkness. Are you all saying get out before you even start?

No.

Just make sure you love medicine.

It's a good job and pays very well. It also takes a lot of your time.

There are easier jobs out there and while you won't earn as much, you can earn 100k+ in many good careers out there that take less time and effort. I think most underestimate the time and effort it takes to be excellent.

If you are exceptional at memorizing and tests, then it's much easier (and maybe not that tough).

I would say if you feel like you could secure a 100k+ job without all the debt, then think a bit harder (i.e. if you have business or other skill sets).
 
After reading this article all of my RBCs turned into dacrocytes.
If it's any consolation, I got your joke the first time.

Dacrocytes are so cute too~!
 
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No.

Just make sure you love medicine.

It's a good job and pays very well. It also takes a lot of your time.

There are easier jobs out there and while you won't earn as much, you can earn 100k+ in many good careers out there that take less time and effort. I think most underestimate the time and effort it takes to be excellent.

If you are exceptional at memorizing and tests, then it's much easier (and maybe not that tough).

I would say if you feel like you could secure a 100k+ job without all the debt, then think a bit harder (i.e. if you have business or other skill sets).

OK thanks for your input. My son always wanted to be in healthcare but he knew how difficult it is to get into medical school. He also likes to work with his hands so he applied to both medicine & dentistry and he got into both. He thought he would have it figured out by acceptance time and is leaning towards medicine because it's what he wanted in the first place and it has more options. But now all this talk is scaring him and us too.
 
I guess you are being too optimistic... I really think it will take a LONG time before physicians will be able to affect public sentiment. From personal anecdotes, it not as much the poor people who hate physician; it is the middle class people with BA/BS/MS/MA degrees who are stuck for many years in some jobs paying them 40k-70k/year with no jobs security and with no prospect of hitting 6-figure salary in years. When you talk to these people they always say: 'I have a BS or a master degree in <insert>, I could have been a physician if I wanted to. I don't understand why physicians make so much money.' This is a sentiment that I have noticed from acquaintances, coworkers and neighbors and two of my friends who are civil engineers... The media also does not help when they keep publishing stories specifically about anesthesiologist among one of the top paying jobs in the US with 300k+/year salary...

Bad outcomes affect public sentiment as well. Current physicians and future generations of physicians should be the ones treating patients (because we have the requisite training) AND they should be compensated handsomely for the opportunity cost of pursuing the field; stress of making life altering/saving decisions; debt accumulated; the wear and tear the profession takes on the body, marriages, families and the bleeping field should be compensated to retain the most brilliant minds in this profession.

No one questions an athlete or movie star, but the guy/gal taking out your brain tumor or doing a carotid endarterectomy or a PCP recognizing the symptoms of a disease early that could potentially save that person's life.....no one knows the training it takes to make those decisions or the risks that those procedures have.
 
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Bad outcomes effect public sentiment as well. Current physicians and future generations of physicians should be the ones treating patients (because we have the requisite training) AND they should be compensated handsomely for the opportunity cost of pursuing the field; stress of making life altering/saving decisions; debt accumulated; the wear and tear the profession takes on the body, marriages, families and the bleeping field should be compensated to retain the most brilliant minds in this profession.
Did you just incorrectly correct his grammar?
 
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OK thanks for your input. My son always wanted to be in healthcare but he knew how difficult it is to get into medical school. He also likes to work with his hands so he applied to both medicine & dentistry and he got into both. He thought he would have it figured out by acceptance time and is leaning towards medicine because it's what he wanted in the first place and it has more options. But now all this talk is scaring him and us too.

I don't know what to tell you.

My best advice would be to avoid the internet. You don't know who you are talking to and some people are inherently negative. I'm not a negative person but I've opened my eyes to the reality of the profession.

With that said, reach out to as many physicians as you can - if you know them or not. You'd be surprised, most physicians would be glad to sit and talk for a few minutes about the reality of the career. They would also let an interested person shadow them for a day and ask questions. I would aim to talk to 3-5 physicians in the area (maybe a specialty of interest), and ask them about these concerns. Some of us are over dramatic, but I the time and commitment talk isn't overblown.

Don't let internet talk sour your optimism, yet it's good to be informed and realistic. Your due diligence is to get in contact with a handful of physicians (preferably ones you respect) to make an intelligent decision.
 
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Did you just incorrectly correct his grammar?

I was not even paying attention. Yes it was wrong, but I was not trying to correct the poster. I know the difference between effect and affect. Let's move on.

Affect or have an effect.....minutiae
 
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With that said, reach out to as many physicians as you can - if you know them or not. You'd be surprised, most physicians would be glad to sit and talk for a few minutes about the reality of the career. They would also let an interested person shadow them for a day and ask questions. I would aim to talk to 3-5 physicians in the area (maybe a specialty of interest), and ask them about these concerns. Some of us are over dramatic, but I the time and commitment talk isn't overblown.
He has already spoken with a CMO, shadowed a family physician, a CPE (whatever that is), he will be shadowing an anesthesiologist this week, emergency department in a couple of weeks. He's at the hospital shadowing almost every morning for 1.5 hrs but it was all technicians and he didn't feel he got the feeling of the life of a Dr.

Thanks for your advice. It is sincerely clear that you are in it for the love of medicine.
 
Sooo...about those hedge fund and venture capital firm jobs....
 
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Bad outcomes affect public sentiment as well. Current physicians and future generations of physicians should be the ones treating patients (because we have the requisite training) AND they should be compensated handsomely for the opportunity cost of pursuing the field; stress of making life altering/saving decisions; debt accumulated; the wear and tear the profession takes on the body, marriages, families and the bleeping field should be compensated to retain the most brilliant minds in this profession.

No one questions an athlete or movie star, but the guy/gal taking out your brain tumor or doing a carotid endarterectomy or a PCP recognizing the symptoms of a disease early that could potentially save that person's life.....no one knows the training it takes to make those decisions or the risks that those procedures have.
Are you referring NP/PA encroachments? I don't know if we will be able to stop the militant NPs who want to practice medicine like physician (I hope we will be able to stop them)... To be honest, I really think only surgical specialties and specialties like Radiology, pathology etc... are immune to mid-level encroachment... Most people these days don't give a squat if they are being treated by MD/DO or PA/NP (though in most cases they don't know). When I started working as nurse 8 years ago, I used to see NP/PA in primary care, and some surgical groups who use PA as assistant in the OR.... Now I see them in virtually everything (GI, Uro, Ophth, Derm, Cardio, Neuro etc...). Their new plan right now is to open up residencies for NP (PA already started doing that) so they can stop physicians from using the residency hours argument. I think derm is their new target because of the lifestyle... The picture is grim, my friend...
 
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No one questions an athlete or movie star, but the guy/gal taking out your brain tumor or doing a carotid endarterectomy or a PCP recognizing the symptoms of a disease early that could potentially save that person's life.....no one knows the training it takes to make those decisions or the risks that those procedures have.

...because the athlete or movie star gives me a product that I enjoy AND have a legitimate choice not to use.

Primary care? I could always fall into that percent of patients who avoid lung cancer despite chain smoking OR that percent of patients who gets lung cancer regardless of smoking status. Besides, what's the point of life if I can't have fun (because, lets face it, a lot of preventative medicine involves being a kill joy).

Most other fields? No one plans on going to the emergency department. No one plans on getting an endarterectomy. No one plans on requiring emergency surgery. So you're telling me that I can either pay your unpublished rate (seriously, if people knew upfront that the Tylenol is going to cost $300 (amount pulled out of my anus, but the point stands), would they be more likely to tough out some of the pain), or I can die. I'm not going to die if I miss an Angels game this season.
 
What makes you guys think that other fields are any better. Before med school I worked in the corporate world in finance (MBA from a top school) . What followed were lay offs down sizing (all while the clock was ticking). I work very hard as an internist - and make in the $200 k range-what I don't have is all that corporate bullsh%t and insecurity- oh and one more thing-I got my dignity back.
 
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What makes you guys think that other fields are any better. Before med school I worked in the corporate world in finance (MBA from a top school) . What followed were lay offs down sizing (all while the clock was ticking). I work very hard as an internist - and make in the $200 k range-what I don't have is all that corporate bullsh%t and insecurity- oh and one more thing-I got my dignity back.
Do you work more than 60 hrs/wk as an internist to make that kind of money?
 
What makes you guys think that other fields are any better. Before med school I worked in the corporate world in finance (MBA from a top school) . What followed were lay offs down sizing (all while the clock was ticking). I work very hard as an internist - and make in the $200 k range-what I don't have is all that corporate bullsh%t and insecurity- oh and one more thing-I got my dignity back.

I also have experience outside medical school. I think the corporate politics are no different from the government politics.
 
OK thanks for your input. My son always wanted to be in healthcare but he knew how difficult it is to get into medical school. He also likes to work with his hands so he applied to both medicine & dentistry and he got into both. He thought he would have it figured out by acceptance time and is leaning towards medicine because it's what he wanted in the first place and it has more options. But now all this talk is scaring him and us too.

dentistry as long as he can do oral surgery or orthodontics
 
My son always wanted to be in healthcare but he knew how difficult it is to get into medical school. He also likes to work with his hands so he applied to both medicine & dentistry and he got into both. He thought he would have it figured out by acceptance time and is leaning towards medicine because it's what he wanted in the first place and it has more options. But now all this talk is scaring him and us too.

He has already spoken with a CMO, shadowed a family physician, a CPE (whatever that is), he will be shadowing an anesthesiologist this week, emergency department in a couple of weeks. He's at the hospital shadowing almost every morning for 1.5 hrs but it was all technicians and he didn't feel he got the feeling of the life of a Dr.

Thanks for your advice. It is sincerely clear that you are in it for the love of medicine.

I can't speak for the rigors of dental school.

But as a student closing in on the end of their first year of med school -- I'll say that it can be an incredibly draining, time consuming, and frustrating experience... The kicker being that first year is supposed to one of the "easier years".

Albeit it true that there are plenty of more stressful life circumstances. After all, I am privileged to have a roof over my head, climate control, a comfy office chair to study in, etc... I am not starving and no one is shooting at me. It is still a very stressful experience, which, for some, can take its toll on a person.

From what I hear (or see on these boards), some people are tickled pink by med school. They apparently love every minute and get turned on by sitting and absorbing all this material. That is certainly awesome. As someone that "liked" the sciences before med school, I can conclude that there is no way to tell if you are going to "like" med school, unfortunately, until you are in med school.
 
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I can't speak for the rigors of dental school.

But as a student closing in on the end of their first year of med school -- I'll say that it can be an incredibly draining, time consuming, and frustrating experience... The kicker being that first year is supposed to one of the "easier years".

Albeit it true that there are plenty of more stressful life circumstances. After all, I am privileged to have a roof over my head, climate control, a comfy office chair to study in, etc... I am not starving and no one is shooting at me. It is still a very stressful experience, which, for some, can take its toll on a person.

From what I hear (or see on these boards), some people are tickled pink by med school. They apparently love every minute and get turned on by sitting and absorbing all this material. That is certainly awesome. As someone that "liked" the sciences before med school, I can conclude that there is no way to tell if you are going to "like" med school, unfortunately, until you are in med school.

these people are either full of it or have zero personality, or both.
 
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No.

Just make sure you love medicine.

It's a good job and pays very well. It also takes a lot of your time.

There are easier jobs out there and while you won't earn as much, you can earn 100k+ in many good careers out there that take less time and effort. I think most underestimate the time and effort it takes to be excellent.

If you are exceptional at memorizing and tests, then it's much easier (and maybe not that tough).

I would say if you feel like you could secure a 100k+ job without all the debt, then think a bit harder (i.e. if you have business or other skill sets).

I would say make sure you love medicine, and are not in love with a specific specialty.
 
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From what I hear (or see on these boards), some people are tickled pink by med school. They apparently love every minute and get turned on by sitting and absorbing all this material. That is certainly awesome. As someone that "liked" the sciences before med school, I can conclude that there is no way to tell if you are going to "like" med school, unfortunately, until you are in med school.

Wait till they take the USMLE Step 1 or after they're done with their clinical years and see if they are still "tickled pink".
 
Are you referring NP/PA encroachments? I don't know if we will be able to stop the militant NPs who want to practice medicine like physician (I hope we will be able to stop them)... To be honest, I really think only surgical specialties and specialties like Radiology, pathology etc... are immune to mid-level encroachment... Most people these days don't give a squat if they are being treated by MD/DO or PA/NP (though in most cases they don't know). When I started working as nurse 8 years ago, I used to see NP/PA in primary care, and some surgical groups who use PA as assistant in the OR.... Now I see them in virtually everything (GI, Uro, Ophth, Derm, Cardio, Neuro etc...). Their new plan right now is to open up residencies for NP (PA already started doing that) so they can stop physicians from using the residency hours argument. I think derm is their new target because of the lifestyle... The picture is grim, my friend...

I know that there are neuro NP's but doesn't the nature of the field shield it from anything we would call a take over? Neuroscience is complicated and diseases can be subtle.
 
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