How can I justify so many applications?

[dparks1061]

I know it has been asked a million times but I need to gain some understanding here. I've been reading article after article, thread after thread, and I'm finding that when it comes to the number of schools to apply to, there is quite a range. On the "modest" end you have people applying to 12-15 schools then you've got others applying to 30-50 schools. But as I'm mulling all this over, I just don't see how on Earth I could find that many schools to apply to, aside from just blind-picking.

So how are people deciding upon these schools?

The way I understand it is that you should be applying to all state schools of which you are a resident (OK, for me). That gives me two options (both of which I would be quite pleased with). Now, I would absolutely love to stay local but let's not even take that into consideration for the moment. If I look at other public schools, within a reasonable distance or across the country, some of them have outrageous tuition for OOS. Tuition that is higher than those of prestigious private schools. Which then begs the question: why would I ever even consider attending an OOS public school for $40-60K/yr? Does this then limit my applications to just in-state schools (2) plus reasonably achievable private schools? I did notice that Texas schools have reasonable OOS tuition but then they all accept <10% OOS applicants which I am assuming is limited to people with ties to the school/state some other way than being a resident of Texas. Again, leaving me to assume that it would be a total waste of time/resources to apply.

Does my thought process hold any logic here?

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[aymar]

It's a game of risk. Each additional school you add is another chance at an interview invite. Depending on the strength of your application, you may have no choice in the school you go to whatsoever. That is when you have to weigh your priorities: Is becoming a Dr. worth paying $40-60K/yr if the alternative is not becoming a Dr.?

 

[dparks1061]

No, it doesnt. You are considering the price as your limiting and almost only factor and are basically saying that if medical school is too expensive then I am nopyt attending.. You are not looking at from stats and probability of acceptances.

1) Average number of applications submitted is 14
2) At any individual school, acceptance rate is 2%-5%
3) About 40% of MD applicants get an acceptance
4) just under half of all matriculants get a single offer of acceptance
5) In state vs OOS rates vary widely. For example, California has about a 15% In state acceptance rate
6) OK had about 442 instate applicants and 152 instate matriculants, for about a 35% instate matriculation rate for the MD school
(https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf)


So the question is, why do you want to be a doctor and how much do you want to be one? and why are you only considering public schools? have to had at least a first look at MSAR with you GPAs/MCATs and see what schools you may be qualified for? Have you then looked closer at those school's websites to see what their programs are like?

Well, yes, I realize that my main topic there was cost, but no I wouldn't let it be my limiting factor. I am a military veteran, so I will be fortunate enough to have some of my schooling paid for (at least 100% undergrad) which means I have no intentions of letting cost stop me, as I will come out with likely a lot less debt than others. With that said, it has to be a consideration and when comparing OOS public vs private, I guess I am just assuming that the better route would be private if we are talking about the same cost but better chance of matriculating at private. Obviously, I can't just PICK my school and go there. But, assuming my score/interview/etc. allow for it, wouldn't I be better off just skipping the OOS public schools? To answer your question I am definitely not considering only public schools.

I analyzed that chart you attached for quite some time over the past few days which is why I decided to ask this question in the first place. But from what I am seeing, the school you mentioned (OU), has a 92% in-state matriculation rate. Am I reading it correctly?

I haven't sat down for each of the schools yet (for the record, I won't be applying until next year). But I do plan on it so I can determine which best suit me/which I best suit. But, ultimately, it will be dependent on which I even have a shot at both in terms of scores and how many they accept (referring to OOS public).

 

[dparks1061]

It's a game of risk. Each additional school you add is another chance at an interview invite. Depending on the strength of your application, you may have no choice in the school you go to whatsoever. That is when you have to weigh your priorities: Is becoming a Dr. worth paying $40-60K/yr if the alternative is not becoming a Dr.?

Well, I can definitely understand the mentality of turning in as many as possible to increase odds of acceptance. But my application will be fairly strong (solid letters, prior healthcare experience, great GPA, veteran status (I am told it helps)), so I guess I'm just being optimistic (call it naive if you wish) in that my goal isn't to just throw out as many applications as possible and just take whatever I can get into.

Yes, I want to be a physician and I am extremely passionate about healthcare and learning. I most definitely will not be letting cost STOP me but it has to at least weigh-in on my decisions. And, in this case, it has me wondering if I should just skip the OOS public schools and do only in-state and private schools.

 

[Goro]

Well, yes, I realize that my main topic there was cost, but no I wouldn't let it be my limiting factor. I am a military veteran, so I will be fortunate enough to have some of my schooling paid for (at least 100% undergrad) which means I have no intentions of letting cost stop me, as I will come out with likely a lot less debt than others. With that said, it has to be a consideration and when comparing OOS public vs private, I guess I am just assuming that the better route would be private if we are talking about the same cost but better chance of matriculating at private. Obviously, I can't just PICK my school and go there. But, assuming my score/interview/etc. allow for it, wouldn't I be better off just skipping the OOS public schools? To answer your question I am definitely not considering only public schools.

I analyzed that chart you attached for quite some time over the past few days which is why I decided to ask this question in the first place. But from what I am seeing, the school you mentioned (OU), has a 92% in-state matriculation rate. Am I reading it correctly?

I haven't sat down for each of the schools yet (for the record, I won't be applying until next year). But I do plan on it so I can determine which best suit me/which I best suit. But, ultimately, it will be dependent on which I even have a shot at both in terms of scores and how many they accept (referring to OOS public).

The only public schools that are routinely on my list, because they interview and accept more from OOS that IS, are U VM and VCU. For other public schools, you will need ot be above avg, because state schools favor the home team.

That said, there are some schools that really like veterans (and many thanks to you for your service!). In this regard, I would then add the state schools that are in neighboring states, but always double check in MSAR with the Acceptance Information pages.

 

[Bloohaze]

But from what I am seeing, the school you mentioned (OU), has a 92% in-state matriculation rate. Am I reading it correctly?

From what I understand, 92% of the total number of accepted applicants were in-state. The in-state acceptance rate was about 35% (as gonnif said previously).

 

[Lawpy]

Applying to more than 40 schools is financially irresponsible and generally irrational. These school lists often consist of state schools with low OOS% acceptance rates and very expensive low tiers that are swamped with thousands of applications. A good school list is one consisting of 20-30 schools that are carefully and throughly researched (often from sound WAMC advice).

Some point out low GPA/high MCAT applicants as exceptions but that isn't necessarily true because schools yield protect against high MCAT scores due to their standardized nature. Even then, applying to 30 schools max is the best bet. Serious and focused research is necessary to craft an optimal school list for success as opposed to adding some random schools just for the heck of it.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

I submitted ~16 apps give or take 1 or 2 and I got 2 II and 1 Acceptance and 1 WL. I don't understand how people can afford to apply to 30+ schools and still not get accepted... Cast a smart net to targeted schools. Do research using MSAR. You're basically using money as bait and fishing for II... When do you draw the line between wise spending and pure waste...

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

Texas loves veterans plus you're from a neighboring state. The 10% OOS applicants that Texas schools accept are those with both high GPA / MCAT. So if you have that + being a veteran, I would HIGHLY recommend you do apply.

 

[Turkishking]

I submitted ~16 apps give or take 1 or 2 and I got 2 II and 1 Acceptance and 1 WL. I don't understand how people can afford to apply to 30+ schools and still not get accepted... Cast a smart net to targeted schools. Do research using MSAR. You're basically using money as bait and fishing for II... When do you draw the line between wise spending and pure waste...

Sometimes to top heavy or a lot low tiers with high stats gotta find the sweet spot

 

[dparks1061]

The only public schools that are routinely on my list, because they interview and accept more from OOS that IS, are U VM and VCU. For other public schools, you will need ot be above avg, because state schools favor the home team.

That said, there are some schools that really like veterans (and many thanks to you for your service!). In this regard, I would then add the state schools that are in neighboring states, but always double check in MSAR with the Acceptance Information pages.

Okay, so it would probably be wise for me to find those public schools that accept more OOS and apply there, too. Yeah, I keep hearing about the MSAR so I will have to look into it more. It seems just like a database that shows stats for all allopathic schools, is that correct? I wonder if I should get that now or wait, considering I won't apply until next year.
Thanks for the info!

 

[dparks1061]

Applying to more than 40 schools is financially irresponsible and generally irrational. These school lists often consist of state schools with low OOS% acceptance rates and very expensive low tiers that are swamped with thousands of applications. A good school list is one consisting of 20-30 schools that are carefully and throughly researched (often from sound WAMC advice).

Some point out low GPA/high MCAT applicants as exceptions but that isn't necessarily true because schools yield protect against high MCAT scores due to their standardized nature. Even then, applying to 30 schools max is the best bet. Serious and focused research is necessary to craft an optimal school list for success as opposed to adding some random schools just for the heck of it.

Okay so I guess my next step is to research individual schools from here. Any resources you suggest?

 

[dparks1061]

Apparently, I misinterpreted your original post as you were only looking to apply to public schools. Yes, most applicants look at many private schools and you need to look at the a little deeper than just scores


OU

1992 total applications x 22.2% in-state = about 442 total instate applicants
165 total matriculants x 92% in-state = about 152 total instate matriculants
152 in-state matriculants / 442 in-state applicants = about 35% in-state matriculation percentage/rate

View attachment 219314

I understand now what you are saying. So is that considered a low percentage?

 

[dparks1061]

I submitted ~16 apps give or take 1 or 2 and I got 2 II and 1 Acceptance and 1 WL. I don't understand how people can afford to apply to 30+ schools and still not get accepted... Cast a smart net to targeted schools. Do research using MSAR. You're basically using money as bait and fishing for II... When do you draw the line between wise spending and pure waste...

Right, I feel like submitting that many is just a waste. Or a desperate, misguided attempt to 'just get something.' I mean, not to knock on anyone that has applied to that many schools. I guess I just feel like by submitting that many applications, that means I have no confidence with any of the schools to which I've applied. Again..maybe I'm being over-confident or naive here..

 

[dparks1061]

Texas loves veterans plus you're from a neighboring state. The 10% OOS applicants that Texas schools accept are those with both high GPA / MCAT. So if you have that + being a veteran, I would HIGHLY recommend you do apply.

Yeah I know Texas is very veteran-friendly. I just wasn't sure how much weight it carried since I'm OOS. They will be my first schools to apply to, assuming my MCAT is competitive enough.

 

[dparks1061]

Both !

An individual medical school >>>
gets several thousand applications; it must reject at least 80% prior to interview to >>>
Invite several hundred for Interview, where it may drop another 10% or more >>>
Offers a few hundred acceptances and WL , maybe 10% of the original >>>
Matriculates a hundred or so, maybe 2%-5% actually start med school.

By pure probability that assume at least a 5% matriculation rate, every applicant must apply to at least 20 schools.
But targeting schools with the minimum of GPA, grades, MCAT, mission, state, can reduce that to the average 13-14 schools
50% of matriculants applied to 13 schools or more , with 15% applying to 25 or more in 2016
Additionally, since states prefer their own, instate acceptance rates are higher but vary across states
And notice even with that average, nearly half of all matriculants get a single offer of acceptance

There is also a common "myth" that 1/2 of all applications are "garbage".
I looked at this a few years ago and found that out of roughly 50,000 applications,
7,000 had 3.39 or lower GPA AND 26 or lower MCAT with only 400 total acceptance
However, applicants with had a 3.39 GPA or less OR 26 MCAT or less , were 40% of the total acceptees in AMCAS
Removing the "garbage" application, the overall national acceptance rate is still only 46%

Some applicants just cant seem to fathom that this is a Olympic-class competition with academic champions from hundreds of colleges. And like the Olympics, the winners are separated from the losers from fractions of second

https://www.aamc.org/download/474258/data/msq2016report.pdf
View attachment 219352
View attachment 219353

View attachment 219351

Let me be clear here: I'm saying that it seems like a lot to apply to 30+ schools. I'm not contesting that I should apply to ~15.

I understand what you are saying. And I will admit that perhaps I am being naive. Either way, it is only fuel for me to do that much better. (I get it - everyone is trying to do that much better..)

As I said, I will just begin researching schools that fit best for me, while keeping my GPA up and studying for a good MCAT. I feel like that will have to dictate the schools I am applying to anyway?

 

[fball22]

Right, I feel like submitting that many is just a waste. Or a desperate, misguided attempt to 'just get something.' I mean, not to knock on anyone that has applied to that many schools. I guess I just feel like by submitting that many applications, that means I have no confidence with any of the schools to which I've applied. Again..maybe I'm being over-confident or naive here..

You shouldn't be, and can't be, confident about acceptance to any school.

 

[begoood95]

But as I'm mulling all this over, I just don't see how on Earth I could find that many schools to apply to, aside from just blind-picking....
So how are people deciding upon these schools?...why would I ever even consider attending an OOS public school for $40-60K/yr? Does this then limit my applications to just in-state schools (2) plus reasonably achievable private schools? I did notice that Texas schools have reasonable OOS tuition but then they all accept <10% OOS applicants which I am assuming is limited to people with ties to the school/state some other way than being a resident of Texas. Again, leaving me to assume that it would be a total waste of time/resources to apply.
Does my thought process hold any logic here?

Hello fellow Oklahoman! Your first question is easily answered, and the above posts do a good job. The distilled version is as follows: people decide to apply to >25 schools for a number of reasons, but above all, it is because -- even with a great application -- it is still very hard to get into medical school. As others have mentioned, many of our peers are outstanding applicants, and essentially everyone that gets in is an incredible student; there is no guarantee that any one of them will matriculate, however, due to the nature of this application process. ADCOMS are humans, and some people slip through the cracks. Other great applicants may have only applied to the "top-20's," the selectivity of which results in a crapshoot for anyone.

Take my application for example. It's "competitive" by SDN standards, but I'm still applying to ~27 schools: anyone, even great applicants, need to realize that while the odds can be tilted in your favor, nothing is guaranteed.

You don't really need to consider attending an OOS public school, because you probably won't get accepted -- they favor their instate applicants. What you do need to consider, however, is applying to out-of-state friendly schools, or schools where your profile matches their mission. The number of schools to which you apply can very easily climb into the high-20's to low-30's if you consider what people are telling you here (which you should). We are investing in our future, and while a $1,000 primary application is nothing to sneeze at, if it is at all possible, I think it is wise to apply broadly -- which means applying to a number of schools.

I don't doubt that, if you applied only to OU and OSU, you have a high likelihood of getting in (assuming you're an overall good applicant). Still, your risk is high, and, personally, I would not do that.

 

[begoood95]

The only public schools that are routinely on my list, because they interview and accept more from OOS that IS, are U VM and VCU.

I was going to apply to UVM, except, to my surprise, they're now requiring applicants to take the CASPer. I met a medical student from UVM during one of my experiences abroad, and they spoke very highly of UVM, and peaked my interest. Yet, I am leaning towards not applying now, because of this new requirement

 

[Lawpy]

I was going to apply to UVM, except, to my surprise, they're now requiring applicants to take the CASPer. I met a medical student from UVM during one of my experiences abroad, and they spoke very highly of UVM, and peaked my interest. Yet, I am leaning towards not applying now, because of this new requirement

I wish we knew how many schools require CASPer. I don't think this can be found on the MSAR, and brute-force searching through all the school websites will be a pain.

 

[cactusman]

The only public schools that are routinely on my list, because they interview and accept more from OOS that IS, are U VM and VCU.

I thought all VA schools (and UMich I think, and possibly some SUNYs) aimed for 50% OOS? Which still leaves OOSers above average because of a larger OOS app pool, but not ridiculously so.

 

[begoood95]

I wish we knew how many schools require CASPer. I don't think this can be found on the MSAR, and brute-force searching through all the school websites will be a pain.

2017-2018 CASPER Schools

There you go! I don't know how thorough the list is, but thankfully it's short.

 

[Lawpy]

2017-2018 CASPER Schools

There you go! I don't know how thorough the list is, but thankfully it's short.

Yeah i saw that (and that condescending shill advertising) but wasn't sure whether it was updated.

 

[begoood95]

Yeah i saw that (and that condescending shill advertising) but wasn't sure whether it was updated.

Oh, yeah... I completely forgot that you were in the thread! Hopefully that's the full extent of schools requiring that exam.

 

[dparks1061]

Every year, 20% of successful applicants applied to 20 schools or more, so that may be a factor to their success


Remember, you get many applicants who are so good that they seem to be able to walk on water
Of course to adcoms this is average and usually note that "applicant cant swim"


GPA and MCAT is usually the first metric to search by for schools. But do not get focused on a single GPA number especially if you have large grade trends, postbacc work, etc.

Well, thank you for the ego-check

Can you elaborate more on your last sentence?

 

[dparks1061]

Hello fellow Oklahoman! Your first question is easily answered, and the above posts do a good job. The distilled version is as follows: people decide to apply to >25 schools for a number of reasons, but above all, it is because -- even with a great application -- it is still very hard to get into medical school. As others have mentioned, many of our peers are outstanding applicants, and essentially everyone that gets in is an incredible student; there is no guarantee that any one of them will matriculate, however, due to the nature of this application process. ADCOMS are humans, and some people slip through the cracks. Other great applicants may have only applied to the "top-20's," the selectivity of which results in a crapshoot for anyone.

Take my application for example. It's "competitive" by SDN standards, but I'm still applying to ~27 schools: anyone, even great applicants, need to realize that while the odds can be tilted in your favor, nothing is guaranteed.

You don't really need to consider attending an OOS public school, because you probably won't get accepted -- they favor their instate applicants. What you do need to consider, however, is applying to out-of-state friendly schools, or schools where your profile matches their mission. The number of schools to which you apply can very easily climb into the high-20's to low-30's if you consider what people are telling you here (which you should). We are investing in our future, and while a $1,000 primary application is nothing to sneeze at, if it is at all possible, I think it is wise to apply broadly -- which means applying to a number of schools.

I don't doubt that, if you applied only to OU and OSU, you have a high likelihood of getting in (assuming you're an overall good applicant). Still, your risk is high, and, personally, I would not do that.

Greetings and thank you for the input! Now, when you say "consider OOS friendly schools where your profile matches their mission," is that going to be private institutions only? Or are you saying that some public schools will be included as well? I know right before that you stated that I don't really need to consider OOS public, but I just want to be clear: you're saying that the search can be narrowed down to private institutions, plus OU/OSU? (this was essentially my original question, to be clear )

 

[dparks1061]

I wish we knew how many schools require CASPer. I don't think this can be found on the MSAR, and brute-force searching through all the school websites will be a pain.

I just googled and found a website that had all of the schools listed:
FREE CASPer Test Prep Tips - BeMo | BeMo

• McMaster Medical School
  
• University of Ottawa (uOttawa) Medical School
  
• New York Medical College (NYMC)
  
• Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (Rutgers RWJ)
  
• Central Michigan University (CMU) College of Medicine
  
• Quillen College of Medicine East Tennesse State University
  
• Tulane University College of Medicine
  
• University of Illinois (UIC) College of Medicine
  
• Dalhousie Medical School

But this really means nothing to me at this moment, as this is the first time I've even heard of CASPer..

 

[dparks1061]

The AAMC has done surveys about every other year for the past decade. of medical schools admissions offices primarily for best practices of using MCAT in medical student selection. These have produced summaries of ranked factors based on actual survey data from the medical schools that can be found in charts in these surveys.

*https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf#page=7
see page 3 (pdf p7) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, and Demographic Application Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants to Receive an Interview Invitation and Offer Acceptance (N=127)

** https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9
See page 4 (pdf page 9) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, Demographic, and Interview Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants Receive Interview Invitations and Acceptance Offers (N=130)

Great info, thank you for that! It's good to see how they are prioritizing certain factors.

 

[begoood95]

Greetings and thank you for the input! Now, when you say "consider OOS friendly schools where your profile matches their mission," is that going to be private institutions only? Or are you saying that some public schools will be included as well? I know right before that you stated that I don't really need to consider OOS public, but I just want to be clear: you're saying that the search can be narrowed down to private institutions, plus OU/OSU? (this was essentially my original question, to be clear )

I think that you will mostly be looking at private institutions, though as @Goro mentioned there are a couple public ones that might show you some love. Being that we're from the midwest, it might not be a long shot to apply to some of our neighboring states (TX, KS, etc). To be even clearer, though, yes: I think you can essentially narrow your search down to private + OU/OSU. That's what I did (...minus OU/OSU, because I don't want to stay in Oklahoma ).

 

[fball22]

I think that you will mostly be looking at private institutions, though as @Goro mentioned there are a couple public ones that might show you some love. Being that we're from the midwest, it might not be a long shot to apply to some of our neighboring states (TX, KS, etc). To be even clearer, though, yes: I think you can essentially narrow your search down to private + OU/OSU. That's what I did (...minus OU/OSU, because I don't want to stay in Oklahoma ).

You just never know. I applied to a lot of schools >30, more than half of which were mid tier private schools where I am right on their matriculate medians as far as stats go. I only got 1 interview at a private school, wake forest. The rest of my interviews, besides my 1 state school, were OOS public schools of which I was accepted to 3 of 5. Rejected by state school. This process is crazy, and you could be lucky and get into your first choice with only applying to a handful of schools, but what if you don't?

 

[dparks1061]

I think that you will mostly be looking at private institutions, though as @Goro mentioned there are a couple public ones that might show you some love. Being that we're from the midwest, it might not be a long shot to apply to some of our neighboring states (TX, KS, etc). To be even clearer, though, yes: I think you can essentially narrow your search down to private + OU/OSU. That's what I did (...minus OU/OSU, because I don't want to stay in Oklahoma ).

Very good, thank you. I have looked around a tiny bit and do see that there are some reasonably achievable OOS publics that are likely worth applying to. Too bad you don't want to stick to OK! Born and raised? Just ready to get out?

 

[dparks1061]

You just never know. I applied to a lot of schools >30, more than half of which were mid tier private schools where I am right on their matriculate medians as far as stats go. I only got 1 interview at a private school, wake forest. The rest of my interviews, besides my 1 state school, were OOS public schools of which I was accepted to 3 of 5. Rejected by state school. This process is crazy, and you could be lucky and get into your first choice with only applying to a handful of schools, but what if you don't?

Wow, were these schools ones that have a track record of accepting a lot of OOS applicants?

 

[begoood95]

Very good, thank you. I have looked around a tiny bit and do see that there are some reasonably achievable OOS publics that are likely worth applying to. Too bad you don't want to stick to OK! Born and raised? Just ready to get out?

Yup, I was born and raised in OK! I am "just ready to get out" -- politically and socially, Oklahoma is not my state. It barely feels like home with all these ass-backward politicians destroying everything that's great about our state. After traveling a bit, I've found that I'm more of a city-person!

 

[Goro]

Wow, were these schools ones that have a track record of accepting a lot of OOS applicants?

Invest in MSAR Online; this will tell you how many IS/OOS apps/interviews and matriculants teach school has.

 

[tarheelpenner]

2017-2018 CASPER Schools

There you go! I don't know how thorough the list is, but thankfully it's short.

When did CASPer become a requirement? What even is it? This is ridiculous. Another test?! Do you have to study for it?

 

[dparks1061]

Yup, I was born and raised in OK! I am "just ready to get out" -- politically and socially, Oklahoma is not my state. It barely feels like home with all these ass-backward politicians destroying everything that's great about our state. After traveling a bit, I've found that I'm more of a city-person!

Well, I suppose medical school will be a good way of doing that! I don't mind it here. I can't stand politics in general, even though they're supposed to affect me everyday. I just do my part and carry on with life. I lived in Cali for a while and it's definitely different there in terms of politics/society. Everywhere you go is going to be a little different. Tulsa fits me just fine
EDIT: suburban Tulsa fits me just fine

 

[dparks1061]

Invest in MSAR Online; this will tell you how many IS/OOS apps/interviews and matriculants teach school has.

Yeah I've looked over the sheet that shows these stats. I was just interested in which schools he had applied to that got him 3/5 interviews; rather, whether they were OOS friendly schools.

 

[fball22]

Wow, were these schools ones that have a track record of accepting a lot of OOS applicants?

Yeah I've looked over the sheet that shows these stats. I was just interested in which schools he had applied to that got him 3/5 interviews; rather, whether they were OOS friendly schools.

I applied to more than 5 OOS public schools, I interviewed at 5 and then was accepted to 3 of them. I turned down a 6th OOS public schools invite for interview because I already had an acceptance. Some of them had higher rates of OOS, others didn't. I'll PM you the schools.

I enjoy looking through the data collected by both msar and us news.

 

[BKNbkn]

I know it has been asked a million times but I need to gain some understanding here. I've been reading article after article, thread after thread, and I'm finding that when it comes to the number of schools to apply to, there is quite a range. On the "modest" end you have people applying to 12-15 schools then you've got others applying to 30-50 schools. But as I'm mulling all this over, I just don't see how on Earth I could find that many schools to apply to, aside from just blind-picking.

So how are people deciding upon these schools?

The way I understand it is that you should be applying to all state schools of which you are a resident (OK, for me). That gives me two options (both of which I would be quite pleased with). Now, I would absolutely love to stay local but let's not even take that into consideration for the moment. If I look at other public schools, within a reasonable distance or across the country, some of them have outrageous tuition for OOS. Tuition that is higher than those of prestigious private schools. Which then begs the question: why would I ever even consider attending an OOS public school for $40-60K/yr? Does this then limit my applications to just in-state schools (2) plus reasonably achievable private schools? I did notice that Texas schools have reasonable OOS tuition but then they all accept <10% OOS applicants which I am assuming is limited to people with ties to the school/state some other way than being a resident of Texas. Again, leaving me to assume that it would be a total waste of time/resources to apply.

Does my thought process hold any logic here?

1) 03XX's mantra: "Accuracy by volume". Apply to schools as funds permit.
2) Look for schools with GPA/MCAT percentiles that mach your stats
3) Avoid schools with little/no OOS love. Private schools become the name of the game. https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf
4) Look for schools with veteran/service love... MSAR has student body percentages of veterans
5) Change your socks and take some Motrin.

FWIW: Anecdotally, average GPA and MCAT, 6 years in military
25 schools applied and 11 interview invites with the above strategy.

 

[dparks1061]

1) 03XX's mantra: "Accuracy by volume". Apply to schools as funds permit.
2) Look for schools with GPA/MCAT percentiles that mach your stats
3) Avoid schools with little/no OOS love. Private schools become the name of the game. https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf
4) Look for schools with veteran/service love... MSAR has student body percentages of veterans
5) Change your socks and take some Motrin.

FWIW: Anecdotally, average GPA and MCAT, 6 years in military
25 schools applied and 11 interview invites with the above strategy.

Good call with #4 there; I didn't know it included that. However, I think the biggest piece I was missing was #5. That will change everything.

That seems like a pretty solid amount of interviews, especially considering the number of applications..would you agree? I've read so many others saying only 1-3 interviews.

 

[BKNbkn]

That seems like a pretty solid amount of interviews, especially considering the number of applications..would you agree? I've read so many others saying only 1-3 interviews.

I definitely can't complain with a very successful cycle... but yeah, the majority of IIs offered to matriculants is about that.

 

[PNWExplorer]

I know it has been asked a million times but I need to gain some understanding here. I've been reading article after article, thread after thread, and I'm finding that when it comes to the number of schools to apply to, there is quite a range. On the "modest" end you have people applying to 12-15 schools then you've got others applying to 30-50 schools. But as I'm mulling all this over, I just don't see how on Earth I could find that many schools to apply to, aside from just blind-picking.

So how are people deciding upon these schools?

The way I understand it is that you should be applying to all state schools of which you are a resident (OK, for me). That gives me two options (both of which I would be quite pleased with). Now, I would absolutely love to stay local but let's not even take that into consideration for the moment. If I look at other public schools, within a reasonable distance or across the country, some of them have outrageous tuition for OOS. Tuition that is higher than those of prestigious private schools. Which then begs the question: why would I ever even consider attending an OOS public school for $40-60K/yr? Does this then limit my applications to just in-state schools (2) plus reasonably achievable private schools? I did notice that Texas schools have reasonable OOS tuition but then they all accept <10% OOS applicants which I am assuming is limited to people with ties to the school/state some other way than being a resident of Texas. Again, leaving me to assume that it would be a total waste of time/resources to apply.

Does my thought process hold any logic here?

Speaking as a reapplicant, it's definitely worth your while to cast a broad net and apply to more as opposed to fewer schools. Give yourself more options as opposed to fewer. It does not cost much extra to add another school on AMCAS, and for all you know one of those OOS schools with high tuition for OOS students might just be the best fit and put you in the best position to succeed - not to mention you're maximizing your chances of getting in /anywhere/ by applying /everywhere/. If you're concerned about what you'd be paying at an OOS school, just remember that if that school puts you in the best position to succeed down the road, that extra will not mean much if anything in the long run.

tl;dr Apply to more schools rather than fewer to give yourself more options

 

[Stagg737]

Applying to more than 40 schools is financially irresponsible and generally irrational. These school lists often consist of state schools with low OOS% acceptance rates and very expensive low tiers that are swamped with thousands of applications. A good school list is one consisting of 20-30 schools that are carefully and throughly researched (often from sound WAMC advice).

Some point out low GPA/high MCAT applicants as exceptions but that isn't necessarily true because schools yield protect against high MCAT scores due to their standardized nature. Even then, applying to 30 schools max is the best bet. Serious and focused research is necessary to craft an optimal school list for success as opposed to adding some random schools just for the heck of it.

I'd add 1 caveat to that and say that if you're applying MD and DO the list may be above 30. If a person is really concerned their app is borderline/lacking I think 20-30 MD schools isn't out of the question. Adding 10-15 DO schools isn't an unreasonable route, so there are times when applying to 30+ schools isn't a bad choice imo.

 

[dparks1061]

Speaking as a reapplicant, it's definitely worth your while to cast a broad net and apply to more as opposed to fewer schools. Give yourself more options as opposed to fewer. It does not cost much extra to add another school on AMCAS, and for all you know one of those OOS schools with high tuition for OOS students might just be the best fit and put you in the best position to succeed - not to mention you're maximizing your chances of getting in /anywhere/ by applying /everywhere/. If you're concerned about what you'd be paying at an OOS school, just remember that if that school puts you in the best position to succeed down the road, that extra will not mean much if anything in the long run.

tl;dr Apply to more schools rather than fewer to give yourself more options

Great advice, thanks for that. I know that, big picture, it won't matter what I'm paying for tuition. I'm responsible enough with my finances; that will make the biggest difference, I'm sure.

 

[stickgirl390]

If i could afford it, I would apply to every medical school in the United States. I just want to be a doctor, I don't care which school I attend.

 

[dparks1061]

If i could afford it, I would apply to every medical school in the United States. I just want to be a doctor, I don't care which school I attend.

So lets roll with that. Everyone, if you applied to every single medical school in the US and only got accepted into one and that happened to be the very last school on your list, would you accept?

 

[bbbcccppp]

The cost of application aside. Do the experts here advise against 50 applications because the quality of the applications would diminish due to time constraints? If money wasn't a problem would more apps mean more lottery tickets to the admissions lottery. I understand that there is a method and a system in place but there is also an unpredictable arbitrary element to admission.


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[Lawpy]

I'd add 1 caveat to that and say that if you're applying MD and DO the list may be above 30. If a person is really concerned their app is borderline/lacking I think 20-30 MD schools isn't out of the question. Adding 10-15 DO schools isn't an unreasonable route, so there are times when applying to 30+ schools isn't a bad choice imo.

I don't think I would recommend 20-30 MD schools for someone who is in borderline MD/DO region. I'd personally go with something like 20 MD schools and 10 DO schools or a similar combination.

If i could afford it, I would apply to every medical school in the United States. I just want to be a doctor, I don't care which school I attend.

The cost of application aside. Do the experts here advise against 50 applications because the quality of the applications would diminish due to time constraints? If money wasn't a problem would more apps mean more lottery tickets to the admissions lottery. I understand that there is a method and a system in place but there is also an unpredictable arbitrary element to admission.


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Diminishing returns and burnout are real phenomena. It's easy to assume conditions of unlimited money and unlimited drive/motivation, but quality of secondary essays can drop appreciably past around 30 schools or so. Secondary essay prompts aren't easy and require a lot of careful thought and proper writing (as well as submitting them on time/not too late). Once burnout hits, you are essentially wasting money on too many schools and restricting yourself to ~30-35 schools where your secondary essays are of highest quality.

 

[bbbcccppp]

Thanks. I've Been wondering about that..


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[stickgirl390]

So lets roll with that. Everyone, if you applied to every single medical school in the US and only got accepted into one and that happened to be the very last school on your list, would you accept?

Yes. A person who graduates from the top school is called a doctor. A person who graduates from the bottom school is also a doctor.