How can I make Medical studies easier (optimize the brain)?

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planetmillion

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I have some concerns about my studies. I'm on the first year of Medical school, and finding it very challenging. I've passed my first 3 exams, but I was studying all my waken hours (about 16 hours a day, 7 days a week) to manage them. I asked some co-students about how much they study per day (maybe only before exams, but not all the time), they said they hardly even do half as much, and most of them got better results than I did.

I'm a mature student (turning 36 this year), and heard, that the number of brain cells starts to decline already @ the age of 22 or so. This would explain some of the major difficulties I have, compared to younger students.

However, as my summer holidays are approaching, I'd love to get some tips what is possible for me to do to be better in getting stuff in, so I'll be better in remembering such a huge amount of information, which is required in Medical school?

1. I already do the things recommended: sleep 8 hours per night, eat healthy, concentrate and discipline myself not to use facebook or other sites while studying unless necessary. Taking good notes. Almost no listening to music, I attended 2 student parties the last 8 months. The discipline part works pretty well for me.

2. I though about taking a speed reading course (as I noticed I read slower than others do): does someone have any experience in using a program, such as QuickEye? Does it really work (developers always recommend their products)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gN_xooHZlY

3. I thought about learning to sleep less per night, let's say 7,5 hours. I'll start with that, if you have experience in gradually decreasing the amount of sleep while still remaining fully alert during the day, tell me about it.

4. How much does the brains ability to learn new stuff really decline with age? Am I really too old to study Medicine? Will I suddenly, maybe 3 years later, discover, that I'm learning less and less and study a lot and still fail my exams? I'm the oldest in my class, the next oldest is 26; in my country almost everyone is turning 20. I googled "learning and age", but I haven't found any evidence, only ordinary people saying that it either does or does not decline. This amount of information is not enough for me.

5. Any other recommendations for what I can do to learn smarter? I'd be grateful for any tips, anything constructive I can use my summer holidays on 🙂
 
You are studying too much in a day without any breaks. Sometimes your mind needs to take a break a little bit so it can regroup. If I just slam away at notes all day, I forget almost everything I read. I also like to work out at the end of my day, makes me sleep better and feel better all around. You should also try using practice questions if you are not doing so already, I noticed I learn a lot more when I missed or thought about questions.

I am an older student and don't have any cognitive decline. Many of my elder bretheren also have no problem, it's all about studying material the right way and being efficient.
 
I have a some breaks during they day, when I walk "up and down" in my room and trying to recall what I've just read. It really isn't easy to get out and do something else, when there's soooo much stuff to read - the more breaks I take, the more busy I am afterwards. However, I was seriously thinking about making a plan to work out 2-3 times a week, so I won't be so restless.

About cognitive declining with age, it's a theory, something I read and heard about, but not anything I feel I have. I remember when I was 19, I still had to have a number of repetitions (the exact number depending on the difficulty), but I've never studied anything so challenging as Medicine, so I cannot compare.
 
What are you using to study? Course notes/scribes, textbooks, review books, wikipedia?

I think your problem might be your yield strategy.
 
As far as the speed reading thing goes, though I have never taken a course in it, I have found that I typically read effectively "faster" when i'm studying than reading for pleasure. This is because when I read for pleasure, I typically read every word. However, when studying, I skim, looking for keywords, sentences, and concepts. I connect the keywords to the material that we covered in lecture, effectively reminding myself what it was (i'm more of an auditory learner to begin with). Then if there is anything that seems fuzzy, I can re-read that sentence or paragraph to get better handle on the material. If I try to read every word like I do when I read for pleasure, I get really bored really quickly and find it hard to focus on anything, which leads to poor retention. I think this is what the "speed reading" courses try to teach- skimming for key concepts and then diving deeper if you need reinforcement.

note this is only what i do and may not work for everyone. It is also more useful for learning concepts that were covered in a lecture form, rather than memorizing lists. just my 2 cents. Also, you may want to try determining what type of learner you are (auditory, physical, sight). If you learn best by say, writing notes than listening to lectures or just reading, then you can drastically increase your time that you spend studying if you are trying to learn in a non-optimal way for you.
 
Probably using the wrong resources/combination of resources. Some people learn well from textbooks, others from lectures, others from notes/power points/review books.

Personally, I found what most effectively used my time was a brief read through of the text or review book and class PowerPoint. After that, I would go through and write down everything from the power points that i didnt know. This would establish a strong base and wasn't too time consuming. I would then do every practice question I could get my hands on, flagging and redoing the ones I got wrong. After that I would go back to and only use my notes. Once I knew something on the notes, I would cross it off. I would keep going over only what I didn't know on the notes.

Basically, start broad. Use questions as a learning tool. They help you find out what you don't know. Then focus on what you don't know.
 
It's nice to see a constructive thread on here. There has been such mindless banter lately (entertaining, but mindless). I'm a 25 y.o. student entering medical school this fall after completing my MBS, and also, taking some medical school courses and faring well. How to study more effectively is something I ponder a lot, enough that I have a little bit of a philosophy, so I'll take a stab at this. Because of the breadth of knowledge and depth of reasoning involved in medical school classes, It's important to think efficiency. This has nothing to do with your age and inherent cognitive ability (clearly you have the chops, you've been accepted), but rather, HOW you study. The amount of time you spend studying to achieve unsatisfactory results conveys that you've been really inefficient. Some of the things I find to be inefficient after some point (but to have worked in the last) can be summed up as too much self-study - endless hours repeating information to yourself, re-writing notes, reviewing slides. This leads to a studying plateau because you're limited to your own vantage point. There is a finite amount of information you will pick up alone, and you'll start noticing details at a gradually slower rate as time goes on. The answer to this?

Method 1a: Simple. Don't study too much your first time around. Trust that you've retained information semi-passively. Read the material, and move on. As you move on, take small breaks and see if you can close your eyes and recall what you've learned in past chapters. Don't do more than 2 or 3 reviews on your own. Don't fall into the panicky feeling of "OMG I don't remember anything" because you probably would remember a lot with some prompting. Be confident, and trust the process. If you're not confident, you won't be able to think clearly or to reason through anything. You don't need the cortisol.

Method 1b: GROUP STUDY. Go beyond the demands of your class to find people that think differently than you, that are committed to making contributions, and are equally motivated to do well. I had a great group of friends in grad school that I would meet regularly with. We'd volunteer mnemonics(If you're not good at this, maybe read a book on memory this summer, and try to apply it.), ways of memorizing things like arteries & muscles in anatomy, and pose abstract questions to each other (which a lot of the time came up on the exams). Sometimes some of us didn't get to finish all the material before our meetings, but we were always able to drastically cut our study time. A lot of the time, I got A's on quizzes after having reviewed only a fraction of the material because of our pre-class high-yield question sessions. IMO, these groups should be no more than 5 people, and should be based on the premise that there is always a portion of the content that everyone will learn regardless, so don't focus on that in your group study session.

Method 2b: Do as many questions as possible. Like taking the MCAT, the best way to figure out what you don't know is to do questions. If you crash & burn, you have something tangible to address. Sometimes you know the content, but you don't realize all it's applications. Questions address both fronts.

Method 2b: USMLE review books. ‘nough said? I mean don't go HAM, but looking at the BRS for biochem will help you to get into the minds of the test-makers. Med school courses go really fast, and they are only going to ask you so-many question types in so-many ways. Direct your studying by focusing on the most important info in advance.

Method 3: Revert back to the outlines provided, or the thesis of the lecture ( sometimes the lecture objectives suffice – always try to use supplements that replace the notes you would otherwise have spent time producing). Sometimes you'll know all this minutia, but lose the big picture. Little of what you learn will be in isolation -The big picture will help you reason.

These are Pretty simple guidelines I follow. Just realize that working hard is sometimes more about working smart than time spent. Nothing other-worldly, just have faith in the process and don't let your doubts eat away at you. Hope this was remotely helpful. Good luck to you, bruh.
 
1) Take breaks in between studying. Physically stand up, walk around and stretch. At the every first and third hour take a 5 minute break. At the end of the second hour take a 10 minute break. At the end of 4 solid hours of studying physically move to a new, different location and start the process over. I don't mean move to a different desk, I mean move to a different building or at least a different floor.

2) Take a test to figure out if you are more a visual or auditory learner and structure your studying accordingly. Don't waste your time making copious class notes if you learn well from books. Don't waste your time reading through textbooks if you're best with audio.

3) Try a periodic review flashcard program like Anki. People swear by it.

4) Mneumonics are popular as well.

5) Study to the test. Find out through older students which question banks and books mostly closely match the material that you will be tested on. At my school BioChem is taught off the slides, so you just study the slides. Path is basically Goljan, so there's no need to waste your time with class notes. Pharm is tested almost entirely from a question bank compiled by the school, so that's all you need to study.

6) As others have said, doing more questions is generally >>>> reading more/taking more notes/going to more lectures/whatever

7) It sounds like part of the problem may be that you're overdoing it. As hard as it is, you need to take at least 30 minutes a day to exercise and take at least one day (or half day) a week to recreate.

8) Be aware that lots of people just hate first year courses. It's basically memorizing a dictionary, and that's hard for a lot of more right brained people. You might just find that second year is easier. Similarly, be aware that students generally say they study less then they actually do and got better grades then they actually recieved. No one wants to look like the dumb one.

9) When all else fails, consider getting tested for ADD and trying meds if your psychiatrist recommends it.


2. I though about taking a speed reading course (as I noticed I read slower
than others do): does someone have any experience in using a program, such as
QuickEye? Does it really work (developers always recommend their
products)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gN_xooHZlY
Click to expand...

I didn't use that software but I did do the Evlyn Wood course. It didn't work for me and I don't know anyone it did work for, but it was small sample size. That course also seemed to emphasize Novels rather than technical reading. It wouldn't be the first thing I tried to improve comprehension
3. I thought about learning to sleep less per night, let's say 7,5 hours.
I'll start with that, if you have experience in gradually decreasing the amount
of sleep while still remaining fully alert during the day, tell me about
it.
Click to expand...

You don't 'learn' to deal with sleep deprivation any more than starving people learn to deal with hunger. It sucks and it keeps on sucking. Don't stop sleeping.
 
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GladifImakeit said:
Could Aricept or Tacrine help?
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Are you serious? Come on. No, it won't help you get even 1 more point on your shelf exam. Stop watching House as if what happens on there is real medicine. You don't have Alzheimer's dementia. Acetylcholine isn't some magic fairy dust you sprinkle indiscriminately around your cerebral cortex with the expectation of improving normal function.
 
ijn said:
Are you serious? Come on. No, it won't help you get even 1 more point on your shelf exam. Stop watching House as if what happens on there is real medicine. You don't have Alzheimer's dementia. Acetylcholine isn't some magic fairy dust you sprinkle indiscriminately around your cerebral cortex with the expectation of improving normal function.
Click to expand...

Ha, pretty sure he was joking, ijn...

But anyway, OP, I think some people have already posted some good stuff. Just a couple things I want to re-emphasize:

1. Study to the test, as previously said. Don't waste time on outside resources for your general knowledge. Only study testable material (class notes, lecture slides, assigned reading, etc.)

2. Ask upperclassmen what was emphasized on old exams or if they remembered any questions.

3. Seek AOA tutoring if your school has it. Sometimes upperclassmen will tutor you on classes and give you hints on what they remember from the exams.

4. Speak to professors directly about your issue. Perhaps going to their office multiple times will guide you on key concepts to know. But also talk with them about your test-taking skills. It might be your judgment or decision-making process which is skewing you. Sometimes being out of the game for a while makes you lose touch with how test makers think

5. At some point, know your limitations and be OK with it. Even if you barely pass all your classes, you are still on your way to earning an MD. It may not be ideal or how you had hoped, but such is life.
 
CassieBagley said:
Ha, pretty sure he was joking, ijn...
Click to expand...
I'm not as sure. That user has shown themselves in the past to be mentally unstable. I hope for her patients that she is merely joking. Half of her post history is edited out because she is embarrassed by it or doesn't want to leave evidence of the craziness.
 
Sticks and stones. I have posted about depression in the past, but a diagnosis of depression is not a life sentence. Depression is a highly treatable illness. I am glad to be able to say I am being treated and your trivial insults and personal attacks mean nothing to me.
 
And one more thing... I don't even watch House. I watch Grey's Anatomy.
 
lol's stop watching grey's anatomy and you will get out of depression
 
ijn said:
I'm not as sure. That user has shown themselves in the past to be mentally unstable. I hope for her patients that she is merely joking. Half of her post history is edited out because she is embarrassed by it or doesn't want to leave evidence of the craziness.
Click to expand...

Damn. That's pretty harsh to say about someone publicly, whether you think it or not.
 
planetmillion said:
I have some concerns about my studies. I'm on the first year of Medical school, and finding it very challenging. I've passed my first 3 exams, but I was studying all my waken hours (about 16 hours a day, 7 days a week) to manage them. I asked some co-students about how much they study per day (maybe only before exams, but not all the time), they said they hardly even do half as much, and most of them got better results than I did.

I'm a mature student (turning 36 this year), and heard, that the number of brain cells starts to decline already @ the age of 22 or so. This would explain some of the major difficulties I have, compared to younger students.

However, as my summer holidays are approaching, I'd love to get some tips what is possible for me to do to be better in getting stuff in, so I'll be better in remembering such a huge amount of information, which is required in Medical school?

1. I already do the things recommended: sleep 8 hours per night, eat healthy, concentrate and discipline myself not to use facebook or other sites while studying unless necessary. Taking good notes. Almost no listening to music, I attended 2 student parties the last 8 months. The discipline part works pretty well for me.

2. I though about taking a speed reading course (as I noticed I read slower than others do): does someone have any experience in using a program, such as QuickEye? Does it really work (developers always recommend their products)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gN_xooHZlY

3. I thought about learning to sleep less per night, let's say 7,5 hours. I'll start with that, if you have experience in gradually decreasing the amount of sleep while still remaining fully alert during the day, tell me about it.

4. How much does the brains ability to learn new stuff really decline with age? Am I really too old to study Medicine? Will I suddenly, maybe 3 years later, discover, that I'm learning less and less and study a lot and still fail my exams? I'm the oldest in my class, the next oldest is 26; in my country almost everyone is turning 20. I googled "learning and age", but I haven't found any evidence, only ordinary people saying that it either does or does not decline. This amount of information is not enough for me.

5. Any other recommendations for what I can do to learn smarter? I'd be grateful for any tips, anything constructive I can use my summer holidays on 🙂
Click to expand...

Adderall.
Its a significant advantage. Dont fall into this "all natural" crap.
 
Thanx very much for advice. I'm already doing most of the things I've got advice for, but I'll find out what I can use to optimize my study techniques even more.

When it comes to the QuickEye programme, I think I'll give it a try, and even if I cannot use it for technical reading, I may still be able to read through my notes, or doing research (skimming texts to find the proper information) when writing projects.
 
bluv1212 said:
Damn. That's pretty harsh to say about someone publicly, whether you think it or not.
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She recommended Alzheimer's medication to a med student, and was being completely serious. That is scary. I think the comment was warranted.
 
CaptainSSO said:
She recommended Alzheimer's medication to a med student, and was being completely serious. That is scary. I think the comment was warranted.
Click to expand...

I'd agree if that was a completely serious suggestion, but I thought it was funny (I'm pretty sure I watched that episode of House). Plus, if that were a serious consideration for any one having trouble studying, then I'd say that person has much bigger problems. However, on a related note, another SDN thread suggests that many med students use Nootropic supplements.
 
bluv1212 said:
I'd agree if that was a completely serious suggestion, but I thought it was funny (I'm pretty sure I watched that episode of House). Plus, if that were a serious consideration for any one having trouble studying, then I'd say that person has much bigger problems. However, on a related note, another SDN thread suggests that many med students use Nootropic supplements.
Click to expand...

Dude, her next post was "I don't watch House."

Read her post history.

You think it's funny because you think it's a joke. It's not. She's being serious.
 
" I'm letting my dog chase a rabbit today JUST because of your annoying posts. I usually see a rabbit when I walk my dog--I typically hold him back, but tonight I'm letting him loose. "

HAHA! I see your point dude. I feel like a stalker after looking up posts, but I got curious about what you said. Seems like the GLAD indeed has some views that are alarming for someone in medical school.
 
I'm an older student myself and just finished M1 so I'll chip in with what helped me:

First, the only 2 things that have been proven in studies to increase cognitive fxn:
1) Sleep
2) Exercise

Get plenty of both. There was definitely a point I learned that a few additional hours of study was not worth the decline in function from loss of sleep. Ditto for exercise. Did wonders for me to clear out the cobwebs, and often I would come back to studying with newfound clarity.

I would add, though I'm not sure how validated it's been in the literature:
3) Diet

Keep eating well.

Those are the main cognitive enhancers for me. I'm not sure if they actually enhanced much, but I could feel it if any of them were lacking.

Repetition is a key factor for me, so I found anki to be extremely helpful, especially for memorizing lots of the minutiae.

I tried speed reading and didn't find it hepful for the kind of material we cover. Ditto for memory enhancement techniques -- great for memorizing speeches or a grocery list, but not as useful for this stuff.

Overally, the best piece of advice I could give would be to focus on the big picture ideas first and add in minutiae as time allows. I know too many classmates who bust their tails to learn that extra 5-10% of crazy "wtf" detail that shows up on exams only to neglect the 90-95% of stuff you can do by really understanding the concepts. Sorry if this sounds a little vague, but I knew many people who were disapointed with their grades despite knowing all the tiny details cold. Invariably, they would review their wrong answers to find that a general misunderstanding of the highest yield topics was what hurt them most. If you can review your exams, you might want to tally up how many you're missing by category (Detail, big picture, careless error, etc.) and adjust accordingly.
 
I never said take Alzheimer drugs. I asked if they would improve memory and cognition.
 
FSU2013 said:
They would if you have Alzhiemer's??
Click to expand...
They don't even really do that. They mostly slow the natural history of the disease by roughly six months.
 
Perrotfish said:
2) Take a test to figure out if you are more a visual or auditory learner and structure your studying accordingly. Don't waste your time making copious class notes if you learn well from books. Don't waste your time reading through textbooks if you're best with audio.
Click to expand...

I think I have to point out that the concept of visual/auditory learners is largely refuted by the research.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...arner-scientists-say-its-unlikely?sc=fb&cc=fp
 
FSU2013 said:
They would if you have Alzhiemer's??
Click to expand...

Did you know that if a euthymic person takes anti-depressants they can become manic? Just because they are drugs intended to treat Alzheimer's doesn't automatically exclude the possibility they affect people who don't have Alzheimer's.
 
I would be very impressed if a twenty something med student could convince a psych to prescribe aricept offlabel
 
GladifImakeit said:
Did you know that if a euthymic person takes anti-depressants they can become manic? Just because they are drugs intended to treat Alzheimer's doesn't automatically exclude the possibility they affect people who don't have Alzheimer's.
Click to expand...

That's a valid view, but don't you think you would first need to establish that some kind of deficiency in acetylcholine is responsible for inefficient studying to suggest something like tacrine for off-label use? You have no reason to believe that this has a primarily physiological cause. That kind of thinking leads to over-medication, and overall, not good things.
 
GladifImakeit said:
Did you know that if a euthymic person takes anti-depressants they can become manic? Just because they are drugs intended to treat Alzheimer's doesn't automatically exclude the possibility they affect people who don't have Alzheimer's.
Click to expand...

That's only if they have underlying undiagnosed bipolar d/o....they may have not had their first manic break yet, but even still, it was just a matter of time. So, yes. I knew that.

First off, AD drugs, as previously alluded to, don't really work. They may slow the timetable of AD, but practically speaking, they only make the family feel better. Second, there is not pathology in the OPs statement, therefore there's no reason to treat. Third, if that's your logic, there's no reason not to just give any random drug for any condition. That would be extremely dangerous and, although some drugs are accepted as off-label treatments, that would probably make you lose any licencing/licensing potential if there were any adverse outcomes.
 
FSU2013 said:
That's only if they have underlying undiagnosed bipolar d/o....they may have not had their first manic break yet, but even still, it was just a matter of time. So, yes. I knew that.

First off, AD drugs, as previously alluded to, don't really work. They may slow the timetable of AD, but practically speaking, they only make the family feel better. Second, there is not pathology in the OPs statement, therefore there's no reason to treat. Third, if that's your logic, there's no reason not to just give any random drug for any condition. That would be extremely dangerous and, although some drugs are accepted as off-label treatments, that would probably make you lose any licencing/licensing potential if there were any adverse outcomes.
Click to expand...

Sigh. Where to begin? I may be "crazy" but your post reeks of stupidity.

1) If you give enough anti-depressants, almost anyone will eventually become manic. The idea that anti-depressants only cause mania in people who have undiagnosed bipolar disorder is just dumb. If someone became manic after taking antidepressants, you wouldn't even be able to tell if they had underlying bipolar d/o, but most people would assume it's a drug side-effect.

2) You contradict yourself by saying Alz drugs don't really work, yet may slow the timetable of AD. I think most people would consider slowing their cognitive decline an improvement. Who says, "6 months improvement? No thanks!"

3) This thread is not about treating pathology - it's about neurooptimization. This implies improving functioning in healthy people, just like a cup of coffee can improve concentration in healthy people. Your conclusion that I would support giving any random drug for any condition is totally absurd. Of course you wouldn't give any random drug to any random person. I don't even know where you came up with that idea.

4) Regardless, the idea that off label drug use is inherently extremely dangerous is just stupid. The danger is in the type of medication, dose, and patient factors more so than in the indication... obviously clozapine used to treat schizophrenia would be more dangerous than using, say, gabapentin for neuropathic pain. Which use is off label? Drugs are used off-label all the time. Where did you get the idea you would lose your license from using drugs off-label?

5) As a reminder, I never said Alz drugs can optimize functioning in people w/o Alzheimer's. I asked if anyone had more information - maybe a study in the literature that showed no benefit in healthy subjects. I did something called "abstraction." Using the general principle that cholinomimetic agents improvement cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's patients, I hypothesized just maybe there is some benefit in healthy people too. Another example: ADHD is sometimes treated with stimulants, but that doesn't mean stimulates have no effect on people without ADHD. I liken your response to saying "Stimulants increase concentration only if you have ADHD, not in normal people." Obviously, we know that's not the case, or no one would abuse stimulants. For the record, I never have abused any drug. I do just fine without illicit substances.
 
GladifImakeit said:
Sigh. Where to begin? I may be "crazy" but your post reeks of stupidity.

1) If you give enough anti-depressants, almost anyone will eventually become manic. The idea that anti-depressants only cause mania in people who have undiagnosed bipolar disorder is just dumb. If someone became manic after taking antidepressants, you wouldn't even be able to tell if they had underlying bipolar d/o, but most people would assume it's a drug side-effect.

2) You contradict yourself by saying Alz drugs don't really work, yet may slow the timetable of AD. I think most people would consider slowing their cognitive decline an improvement. Who says, "6 months improvement? No thanks!"

3) This thread is not about treating pathology - it's about neurooptimization. This implies improving functioning in healthy people, just like a cup of coffee can improve concentration in healthy people. Your conclusion that I would support giving any random drug for any condition is totally absurd. Of course you wouldn't give any random drug to any random person. I don't even know where you came up with that idea.

4) Regardless, the idea that off label drug use is inherently extremely dangerous is just stupid. The danger is in the type of medication, dose, and patient factors more so than in the indication... obviously clozapine used to treat schizophrenia would be more dangerous than using, say, gabapentin for neuropathic pain. Which use is off label? Drugs are used off-label all the time. Where did you get the idea you would lose your license from using drugs off-label?

5) As a reminder, I never said Alz drugs can optimize functioning in people w/o Alzheimer's. I asked if anyone had more information - maybe a study in the literature that showed no benefit in healthy subjects. I did something called "abstraction." Using the general principle that cholinomimetic agents improvement cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's patients, I hypothesized just maybe there is some benefit in healthy people too. Another example: ADHD is sometimes treated with stimulants, but that doesn't mean stimulates have no effect on people without ADHD. I liken your response to saying "Stimulants increase concentration only if you have ADHD, not in normal people." Obviously, we know that's not the case, or no one would abuse stimulants. For the record, I never have abused any drug. I do just fine without illicit substances.
Click to expand...

Well, with respect to your analogy on ADHD stimulants, you're misguided in thinking that stimulants work that same way on people without ADHD. In fact, the reason why we use stimulants in ADHD patients (specifically amphetamines or methylphenidates) is because they have a paradoxical reaction- meaning it usually doesn't work that way in healthy individuals without ADHD. I think your thinking perhaps that stimulants can also be used for other indications in people without ADHD, such as depression or narcolepsy. However, it will not "improve" their ability to focus like it does in patients with actual ADHD. Will stimulants like amphetamines increase concentration in normal people as you say? Possibly, but not nearly to the degree they would in people with ADHD.
 
GladifImakeit said:
Sigh. Where to begin? I may be "crazy" but your post reeks of stupidity.

1) If you give enough anti-depressants, almost anyone will eventually become manic. The idea that anti-depressants only cause mania in people who have undiagnosed bipolar disorder is just dumb. If someone became manic after taking antidepressants, you wouldn't even be able to tell if they had underlying bipolar d/o, but most people would assume it's a drug side-effect.

2) You contradict yourself by saying Alz drugs don't really work, yet may slow the timetable of AD. I think most people would consider slowing their cognitive decline an improvement. Who says, "6 months improvement? No thanks!"

3) This thread is not about treating pathology - it's about neurooptimization. This implies improving functioning in healthy people, just like a cup of coffee can improve concentration in healthy people. Your conclusion that I would support giving any random drug for any condition is totally absurd. Of course you wouldn't give any random drug to any random person. I don't even know where you came up with that idea.

4) Regardless, the idea that off label drug use is inherently extremely dangerous is just stupid. The danger is in the type of medication, dose, and patient factors more so than in the indication... obviously clozapine used to treat schizophrenia would be more dangerous than using, say, gabapentin for neuropathic pain. Which use is off label? Drugs are used off-label all the time. Where did you get the idea you would lose your license from using drugs off-label?

5) As a reminder, I never said Alz drugs can optimize functioning in people w/o Alzheimer's. I asked if anyone had more information - maybe a study in the literature that showed no benefit in healthy subjects. I did something called "abstraction." Using the general principle that cholinomimetic agents improvement cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's patients, I hypothesized just maybe there is some benefit in healthy people too. Another example: ADHD is sometimes treated with stimulants, but that doesn't mean stimulates have no effect on people without ADHD. I liken your response to saying "Stimulants increase concentration only if you have ADHD, not in normal people." Obviously, we know that's not the case, or no one would abuse stimulants. For the record, I never have abused any drug. I do just fine without illicit substances.
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I apologize, let me bow in the presence of obvious brilliance.
 
It's okay. I hope I didn't come across as condescending, but SDN doesn't always lend itself to fruitful dialogue. Apology accepted🙂
 
GladifImakeit said:
5) As a reminder, I never said Alz drugs can optimize functioning in people w/o Alzheimer's. I asked if anyone had more information - maybe a study in the literature that showed no benefit in healthy subjects. I did something called "abstraction." Using the general principle that cholinomimetic agents improvement cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's patients, I hypothesized just maybe there is some benefit in healthy people too. Another example: ADHD is sometimes treated with stimulants, but that doesn't mean stimulates have no effect on people without ADHD. I liken your response to saying "Stimulants increase concentration only if you have ADHD, not in normal people." Obviously, we know that's not the case, or no one would abuse stimulants. For the record, I never have abused any drug. I do just fine without illicit substances.
Click to expand...

There is research in this area, don't feel bad if people are making fun of you for bringing it up, it is not such a crazy idea. Anyone who buys the supplement Huperzine A, which is widely available in stores, is taking an acetycholine inhibitor. As far as I can remember the drugs only treat the symptoms and don't slow the progression of Alzheimer's at all. It just changes the timetable of the symptoms because it is treating the symptoms.
 
I don't have time to do a lit search but here's one article I saw:

Acute cognitive effects of donepezil in young, healthy volunteers

Ana LC Zaninotto1, Orlando FA Bueno1, Márcia Pradella-Hallinan1, Sérgio Tufik1, Jenny Rusted2, Con Stough3, Sabine Pompéia1,*

Keywords:
donepezil;acetylcholinesterase inhibitor;memory;cognition;working memory;performance
Abstract
Objective
The acute nootropic potential of donepezil in young healthy volunteers has not been adequately investigated mainly because in previous studies: (1) effects were assessed before peak-plasma concentration (Tmax) was reached; (2) only a few cognitive processes were assessed. Here we investigated a myriad of cognitive effects of augmentation of acetylcholine using an acute dose of donepezil in healthy adults at theoretical Tmax.

Methods
This was a double-blind, placebo controlled, parallel group design study of cognitive effects of acute oral donepezil (5 mg). Subjects were tested twice after donepezil ingestion: 90 min (time that coincides with previous testing in the literature) and 210 min. (theoretical Tmax). The test battery included tasks that tap cognitive domains that are sensitive to acetylcholine manipulations.

Results
At both testing times donepezil improved long-term recall of prose, objects recall, recall of spatial locations, and integration of objects with their locations, some effects having been related to self-reported mood enhancement. However, improvement of performance in the central executive measure (backward digit span) occurred only at Tmax.

Conclusion
Positive cognitive effects of acute donepezil can be observed in various cognitive domains including mood, but its full nootropic potential is more clearly found close to theoretical peak-plasma concentration. Copyright © 2009 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
 
CassieBagley said:
Well, with respect to your analogy on ADHD stimulants, you're misguided in thinking that stimulants work that same way on people without ADHD. In fact, the reason why we use stimulants in ADHD patients (specifically amphetamines or methylphenidates) is because they have a paradoxical reaction- meaning it usually doesn't work that way in healthy individuals without ADHD. I think your thinking perhaps that stimulants can also be used for other indications in people without ADHD, such as depression or narcolepsy. However, it will not "improve" their ability to focus like it does in patients with actual ADHD. Will stimulants like amphetamines increase concentration in normal people as you say? Possibly, but not nearly to the degree they would in people with ADHD.
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I have never seen any convincing evidence for this common bit of psychiatric folklore, and I think the expansion of the ADHD diagnosis to half of the pediatric population speaks to the near universal utility of study drugs.
 
Perrotfish said:
I have never seen any convincing evidence for this common bit of psychiatric folklore, and I think the expansion of the ADHD diagnosis to half of the pediatric population speaks to the near universal utility of study drugs.
Click to expand...
Yea, it's BS.
 
These got me in the top 5% of my class...

AsianEyes.jpg
 
VARK test will help you figure out what kind of learner you are. That's the number 1 thing I would say. If you aren't studying to how you learn you won't learn anything.

I'm not a big flashcard person, but anki really works, even if you're not much of a flashcard person (I'm not, but the forced repetition really helps).

Breaks are super important. I found the more intense a study session the dumber the show I wanted to watch/zoning out afterwards. It helped me 'not to think' for a little while if that makes any sense. I know some people can do 5 minute breaks per hour - I probably did 20 minutes of studying for 10 minutes of break on average (during finals I probably did 2 hours in a row for 1 hour of break afterwards). I was really efficient with my studying though, and I figured the brain drain/periods of being intensely focused justified the long breaks afterwards. But breaks are definitely essential. I would start to zone out and not absorb anything if I tried to force myself to study past exhaustion. During finals I'd study for 2 hours, break for 1, rinse and repeat from 9am to probably 10pm. Collapse and zzzz, rinse and repeat for 2 weeks. Find what works for you.

I don't buy into the older + decreased mental ability. I think you're psyching yourself into thinking you have less ability than younger classmates. I know older people that are super sharp - my old histo prof for example. Gl.
 
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