How can I shadow with an 8-5 M-F job?

[NeuroDroid]

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Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

 

[borrawin95]

Oof I feel your struggle.

I only had luck with the ED myself, but I'd reach out to hospitalists, radiologists, OBGYN (just a few specialties that commonly work nights that come to mind). I'd call the clinic at the time that you're looking to shadow (e.g. 7pm) and ask for the contact information of attendings that are currently on shift. Your mileage may vary depending on the clinic/hospital but it only takes one sympathetic doctor to get shadowing hours.

Overall there is no set formula to accomplish shadowing hours and its honestly luck/connections-based but certain schools are aware of how difficult it is to obtain shadowing hours as a non-traditional student and will be flexible (to a certain degree).

 

[jhmmd]

Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

Start by asking your PCP. Ask family, family friends, ask your social network if they know anyone who knows anyone. There used to be a D.O. mentor website but I believe it has been taken down. I would stay away from email and try to find more opportunities in person.

There's nothing wrong w/ED volunteering. I found that I saw the most interesting stuff on the Friday 8pm-12 a.m. shift, personally.
Try to reach out to people while you're volunteering in the ED (in an appropriate way) and expand your network that way.
Good luck! 🙂

 

[Deltasidearm]

Like others have said, hospitals never sleep. Others have frequently mentioned night and evening hours but have failed to mention the weekends (which would be more palatable for me, since I value my sleep and also work days full time). Unfortunately, networking/connections would be the biggest determinant on your success but you can still cold call/email physicians and try to find someone sympathetic. Hospitalists/intensivists/surgeons would be my go-to if you already have ED experience. COVID certainly doesn't help so make sure you check with the volunteer coordinator at hospitals regarding their student/volunteer status.

 

[jhmmd]

Like others have said, hospitals never sleep. Others have frequently mentioned night and evening hours but have failed to mention the weekends (which would be more palatable for me, since I value my sleep and also work days full time). Unfortunately, networking/connections would be the biggest determinant on your success but you can still cold call/email physicians and try to find someone sympathetic. Hospitalists/intensivists/surgeons would be my go-to if you already have ED experience. COVID certainly doesn't help so make sure you check with the volunteer coordinator at hospitals regarding their student/volunteer status.

There will always be a market for volunteer work. Believe in the invisible hand!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

urgent care clinic are open in the evenings and also weekend free clinics. Some private practice primary care docs have Saturday clinics.

 

[Deltasidearm]

There will always be a market for volunteer work. Believe in the invisible hand!

Oh certainly. But that doesn't change the fact that there are still many health systems essentially on lockdown for non-essential contact and are not currently hosting students or volunteers, especially new ones. Best to check earlier and save time if things don't work out, considering the ongoing pandemic in the US.

 

[jhmmd]

urgent care clinic are open in the evenings and also weekend free clinics. Some private practice primary care docs have Saturday clinics.

Oh yeah just remembered a lot of universities w/affiliated medical schools have affiliated urgent care type practices for the indigent population, e.g. Cass Clinic at Wayne State, Imani Clinic and Shifa Clinic, etc. at UC Davis, etc.

Alternatively you could cold-call medical practices w/a sliding scale pay system as they may tend to be more open to letting you volunteer.

 

[lull]

Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

If you're having trouble finding shadowing for covid related reasons it may be worth it to look for a per diem scribe position. I know a coworker who works full time at our state's department of health M-F and will work casually as an ED scribe. There is a lot of mixed reviews on scribing in the place of shadowing, but for the time being and against popular belief, you are seeing what the physician's day is like. I did clinic and ED scribing and I would say that in the ED you see a lot of cases you would see in the urgent care setting, and then some.

 

[jmedrunner129]

I was in a very similar situation and just couldn't afford to do work for free for a few years because I was supporting my family, so what I did was pick up a part-time scribing job (cardiology & EM). This gave me essentially the experience of shadowing but I was getting paid and I got a rec letter from my doc. I have 0 shadowing hours on my application but I wrote about how my scribe job allowed me to observe a doctor in their everyday practice and gain clinical knowledge and it was not an issue in my interviews thus far.

 

[borrawin95]

I would not recommend this. At most of the practices I know (including my residency clinic), this would get you to some lady at the answering service who does not personally know the docs and would not give out their contact information, and at best will send a page to an on call doc who would much rather be doing something else than answering phone calls like this in the evening. Call during regular business hours for clinics that you see have regularly scheduled evening/weekend hours scheduled, and ask if any of the docs would be willing to have you shadow during that shift.

OP, I agree with the recommendations above regarding looking into specialties who have evening/weekend coverage in the hospital like hospitalists, surgeons, OBGYN, ICU, etc. Sports med/ortho docs may also cover sports games evenings and weekends you could accompany them to. If you are in a city with a teaching hospital you could also reach out to residency programs and see if they have a resident or attending you could shadow on X date. You definitely do want to get some primary care shadowing though (outpatient IM, FM, peds).

That's fair--I hadn't considered they would page the doctor. I call clinics to ask for provider contact information for a research program so my perspective is definitely skewed in that I'm not some random caller asking for Dr. X's email. I do think that calling, in general, is a great option because the MA/receptionist would make sure your information gets to a physician. It's much easier to ignore emails.

OP, you mentioned on a previous post that you're 3+ years out of college. You can likely contact friends that are current M3s (or older) to leverage their connections. One of my closest friends is a current PGY3 in EM and he was a massive help to me in getting shadowing experience.

 

[abw07]

Start by asking your PCP. Ask family, family friends, ask your social network if they know anyone who knows anyone. There used to be a D.O. mentor website but I believe it has been taken down. I would stay away from email and try to find more opportunities in person.

There's nothing wrong w/ED volunteering. I found that I saw the most interesting stuff on the Friday 8pm-12 a.m. shift, personally.
Try to reach out to people while you're volunteering in the ED (in an appropriate way) and expand your network that way.
Good luck! 🙂

Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

This may be a silly question, but who can you reach out to for ED shadowing? Just do research and find out what doctors work there and cold call?

 

[chlbimaru]

Hi! I was in a v similar place (worked in consulting for my two gap years, so definitely not clinical haha) and what I ended up doing was just using my vacation days to shadow (so was still paid haha). I know it's not ideal, but it was really hard for me to be able to find enough physicians who were willing to have me come in on weekends/Fri evenings (since I traveled during the week I couldn't do Mondays-Thursdays), so would look into doing that if you can! I let my project managers know about how I was making the pivot to medicine, and they were super supportive about me having to take a random half-day on Friday or something, so if you're in a place where you can inform your team, that could also help with taking time off/making time for shadowing!

 

[rep_the_don]

Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

I feel your struggle, OP. I was working full-time when I was trying to get shadowing and it was tough. Most of my advice applies pre-covid since I haven't tried to shadow during the pandemic. What I did was to look on my undergraduate institution's alumni portal and found plenty of physicians in my area who graduated from my alma mater's undergraduate program or medical school. I emailed a ton of them and got a pretty good response rate (~75%). While I had to take off several weekdays to shadow some doctors, I also shadowed an internist on Saturday mornings and orthopedic residents on Friday nights and Saturdays when they were on-call. I would highly recommend utilizing your alumni network from your undergraduate even if it's been a while, because I found that physicians were much more responsive and receptive to me because of our common background than if I were cold-emailing.

If you have any personal doctors you've seen for primary care or other needs, I would recommend asking them if they know anyone you may shadow on weekends/nights. My personal orthopedic surgeon was the one who referred me over to residents at a hospital in the first place. Even though they're not attendings, you can often get a great picture of medicine through shadowing residents as well. I felt I got their more unfiltered perspectives on medicine too.

Overall, EDs, surgeons, and hospitalists are probably good starting points.

 

[AZDev]

Weekend outpatient surgery seems like a good place to start. I shadowed an ortho surgeon on Saturdays. Would suggest seeking out private practice ortho specialists and asking them. Start with docs that know your family already.

 

[melab]

Whats your line of work? Use that if feasible as a shadowing template. Hospice always looking for volunteers. Best Wishes!

 

[mdphd123j]

Look into specialties that do a lot of night work — transplant surgery and trauma surgery are rarely elective, so the “main” part of their job is often at night. I was in same situation as you working 11+ hrs/day. It can be done, although you may need to take a day off here or there to accommodate physicians’ schedules if they don’t offer you a night shift. Good luck!

 

[deleted1062646]

Hey guys, I'm a non-trad with a full time job. I need it to pay the bills so unfortunately, as much as I'd like to quit, I can't. I've been wanting to find shadowing positions (pre-covid, post-covid I haven't even tried) but I find that most doctors work M-F at around the same times that I do. Have any of you been able to do this? I shadowed at an ED for a short time but it was during the day on Saturdays (they didn't allow it at night for some reason). Eventually, I had to stop shadowing because the doctor I was assigned to got very creepy with me. 🙁😳

Are EDs my only option? I'm guessing hospitals would be a good place to start but who do I talk to about this? Who do I e-mail?

I don't come to SDN often, but I still receive emails from here and saw your question and thought I would offer a suggestion:
e-shadowing or virtual shadowing. Dr. Ryan Gray does e-shadowing webinars. Look it up. SDN may or may not frown upon this, but during a pandemic there aren't a lot of options for everyone.
Good luck.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't come to SDN often, but I still receive emails from here and saw your question and thought I would offer a suggestion:
e-shadowing or virtual shadowing. Dr. Ryan Gray does e-shadowing webinars. Look it up. SDN may or may not frown upon this, but during a pandemic there aren't a lot of options for everyone.
Good luck.

It's very true that there aren't a lot of good options during a pandemic, but several adcoms in a position to know have advised that this isn't an acceptable alternative. Anyone taking this suggestion could end up in a really bad spot if they apply counting on this being an acceptable alternative, assuming the adcoms are right and Dr. Gray is doing more harm than good by offering it as a means to drum up business.

 

[Mr. Nightmare]

You could try a hospice for both volunteering and shadowing. I have found that many allergists hold Saturday office hours because there are so many many patients that get allergy shots. So, you might want to try to reach out to an allergy clinic.