How can we get universal healthcare in the United States?

[Mad Jack]

---

Members don't see this ad.

@Stagg737 , I agree that you are making good points. But think this way, now a profit oriented private company collect the premiums, take out operating cost and a big chunk as profit and pay the Doctors and hospitals. Now if the government collects the premiums, removes the profit and pay the hospitals and doctors the same amount, how the efficiency will go down? What is wrong with it? Why people are so alarmed about this and calling it socialism or capitalism?

The numbers I gave are from my friends, I did not make it up. The premiums for PPO plans are so high , all my colleagues have gone for high deductible plans.

Because the government always establishes bodies that seek to enrich themselves at the cost of others. Administrators seek promotions and higher salaries by cutting costs of programs etc, and efficiency is often cut as the government contracts with private outside providers that have little competition as the bidding process is often quite corrupt.

Can you imagine what universal health care will look like when we have republicans in control of the house, senate, and presidency? Our political system is too volatile to be controlling our health care options tbph.

 

[TJinDaHouse]

Well supposedly that’s what it is intended for in every other country. Is USA in Mars? I pay $80k tax every year, I want some of it go to poor and disabled people rather than to useless wars.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Free healthcare applies to two of them


I think one step is they should make school free. Like if doctors had no loans they could make maybe 80,000 a year and not have to worry bout them. So easy a solution that I came up with it

 

[Alakazam123]

That is not at all what taxes where invented for

Taxes are there to help the society flourish. Part of that is helping poor people get back on their feet and going.

I'm not for single-payer healthcare, but this greedy "I only look out for myself, forget everyone else," is not going to help anyone, I'm sorry. Feel free to disagree with me.

 

[deleted927028]

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Free healthcare applies to two of them

I think one step is they should make school free. Like if doctors had no loans they could make maybe 80,000 a year and not have to worry bout them. So easy a solution that I came up with it

Absolutely!! The medical education has to be free. At the same time, we can pay the doctors well too. We have to discourage the malpractice suing or even eliminate it. It has become another looting business and puts the doctors under enormous pressure and increases the cost.

It is funny that when we talk about helping unfortunate, poor people, affordable healthcare, free education all the politicians and over half the population cry about freeloading . But they refuse to see the BIGGEST FREELOADERS right under their nose, they are some of the richest people in the country.

For example, in every other country, anything under the ground is owned by the government and all the people. I mean all the natural resources even under privately owned land. So the government harvest them and utilize them for the common good.

Take oil. In every oil producing country, the oil is drilled by the government and owned by them. Some countries like Norway they sell the oil to the people and direct the profit to social security. Some countries give their people free or at subsidized cost.

Here what we do? We give full license to a few rich oil companies to loot the natural resource which is supposed to be owned by every citizen. Every day they drill about 12 million barrels of oil . If the price per barrel is $50, they swindle 2 trillions every year. In 2008, the price touched $150, that means they looted 6 trillions that year. Now legally they are liable to pay only around 8% royalty, but our politicians have given them around 25 execuses not to pay any of it. If my memory is right they pay only 5 billion in royalties, but I could be wrong. Mind you, they don’t pay even a single penny in taxes but they get tax credit and subsidies in billions because they are so poor . In fact none of the big corporations pay any penny in taxes.

Now if the government take over the ownership of the oil resources, we can use all the profits to shore up social security, provide affordable healthcare to everyone and free education for our kids. But no no no. That’s abomination. That would be socialism. Government taking over our liberty . Government is inefficient. It cannot do anything. On top of it, we are the greatest country in the World because we are only capitalist country.

I think that the story is same with Natural Oil. But I am not sure, haven’t done any research on that.

 

[deleted927028]

THEY divide us over petty and useless social issues and color of the skin, feed us lies 24 hours on THEIR media, pit us against each other and loot away all our wealth. We hate each other so much and turn blind eye to their atrocities.

 

[deleted480308]

You refuse to see anything the other people try to say but repeat the same thing preached by the perpetrators. No one is talking about free stuff. But an essential service at a fair price ensured by the government. That’s all. A company making drugs in USA sells it to other countries for $10 but for $100 in USA. Then they bribe the politicians to ban the import of cheaper drugs and FORCE the people to pay $100. Don’t you think it is the stupidest thing ? Here the drug companies are getting $90 FREE money. How do you propose to deal with it?

Less govt...don’t ban the imports. Solved

 

[deleted480308]

Well supposedly that’s what it is intended for in every other country. Is USA in Mars? I pay $80k tax every year, I want some of it go to poor and disabled people rather than to useless wars.

The govt shouldn’t be the intermediary for your charitable impulses. Dramatically reduce taxes and then you can donate whatever you want to

And I’m with you on less wars...but that’s not a justification for the other discussion

 

[dpmd]

You are getting confused politicians with the government. They are different. Good honest politicians with intention to make things work for people, can make the government work efficiently. Unfortunately most of the politicians on either side have been bought off by the insurance companies and they dance to their tunes. For example, take the Obamacare, I am not a big fan of it. But it did one good thing which is the elimination of preexisting conditions. Even though the giovernment had no say in setting the premiums, did you notice how vehemently the republicans attacked the Government for higher premiums and nevered uttered a single word against their pay masters which are insurance companies? Did you see how many problems they create against the success of Obamacare? Do they do it to help the people or their pay masters? Go figure . But ultimately everyone including half the people will cry “Government is the problem, it is inefficient, it has to get out of the way”.

This is why we need single payer, the politicians will have no incentive in sabotaging the government efforts . Then it will function efficiently as it does in most of other countries. At minimum, we should allow everyone to buy into Medicare immediately and grant it all the power to negotiate the cost of everything including import of drugs from other countries.

Eliminating the ability to exclude for preexisting conditions is one of the big reasons premiums went up. You are delusional to think that single payer would eliminate corruption from causing problems.

 

[deleted927028]

Eliminating the ability to exclude for preexisting conditions is one of the big reasons premiums went up. You are delusional to think that single payer would eliminate corruption from causing problems.

If you do not cover preexisting condition, what kind of healthcare is it? Do you know that the insurance companies use kick the people out of coverage the moment they got sick? Please do not repeat the same lies propagated by these thieves? All around the world, most of the countries cover all the people without copay or deductible and at fraction of our cost. If it is possible for them it should be possible for us. No one can brainwash me, I am not an idiot. As I mentioned before, even without single payer, if the politicians allow all the people who choose to buy into Medicare and grant the administrators all the power to negotiate the prices like the other countries do and allow the import of drugs, most of the people will flick to Medicare. The insurance companies will bite the dust on their own and have a natural death. Then it will become single payer on it own. Whether you realize this or not, our politicians know that and that’s why they block it . You have to stop listening to politicians and stop watching cnn/msnbc/Fox news to understand what I try to say

 

[deleted927028]

With single payer there might be corruption. At least we will have an option to after it. But now all our hands are tied. That’s the problem

 

[dpmd]

If you do not cover preexisting condition, what kind of healthcare is it? Do you know that the insurance companies use kick the people out of coverage the moment they got sick? Please do not repeat the same lies propagated by these thieves? All around the world, most of the countries cover all the people without copay or deductible and at fraction of our cost. If it is possible for them it should be possible for us. No one can brainwash me, I am not an idiot. As I mentioned before, even without single payer, if the politicians allow all the people who choose to buy into Medicare and grant the administrators all the power to negotiate the prices like the other countries do and allow the import of drugs, most of the people will flick to Medicare. The insurance companies will bite the dust on their own and have a natural death. Then it will become single payer on it own. Whether you realize this or not, our politicians know that and that’s why they block it . You have to stop listening to politicians and stop watching cnn/msnbc/Fox news to understand what I try to say

It is called insurance. Just like people would only pay for car insurance after a wreck or pay flood insurance after the house gets destroyed if you let them if you let people wait until they are sick to need care then there won't be enough money laying around to pay for it unless they charge higher premiums. This isn't something I need to listen to anyone to understand and it isn't brainwashing. It is logic and sense (which is obviously not common). You sound like the people in the car insurance commercial who complain that their car insurance company raised rates after an accident. Insurance companies would lose money if they didn't charge people who use the coverage more than those who do not. Or they can just charge everyone more and say "look, we don't raise rates after an accident". But then they run the risk good drivers will seek other coverage.

 

[deleted480308]

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Free healthcare applies to two of them


I think one step is they should make school free. Like if doctors had no loans they could make maybe 80,000 a year and not have to worry bout them. So easy a solution that I came up with it

That’s not at all what that means

It is the right to not have another person take your life unjustly....it does not create an obligation for others to provide all your needs to sustain life

 

[deleted480308]

If you do not cover preexisting condition, what kind of healthcare is it? Do you know that the insurance companies use kick the people out of coverage the moment they got sick? Please do not repeat the same lies propagated by these thieves? All around the world, most of the countries cover all the people without copay or deductible and at fraction of our cost. If it is possible for them it should be possible for us. No one can brainwash me, I am not an idiot. As I mentioned before, even without single payer, if the politicians allow all the people who choose to buy into Medicare and grant the administrators all the power to negotiate the prices like the other countries do and allow the import of drugs, most of the people will flick to Medicare. The insurance companies will bite the dust on their own and have a natural death. Then it will become single payer on it own. Whether you realize this or not, our politicians know that and that’s why they block it . You have to stop listening to politicians and stop watching cnn/msnbc/Fox news to understand what I try to say

If we are both shopping for health insurance and you are a healthy 25yo and I’m a 60yo diabetic, copd, chf’er.....my insurance premiums should dwarf yours

 

[deleted927028]

It is called insurance. Just like people would only pay for car insurance after a wreck or pay flood insurance after the house gets destroyed if you let them if you let people wait until they are sick to need care then there won't be enough money laying around to pay for it unless they charge higher premiums. This isn't something I need to listen to anyone to understand and it isn't brainwashing. It is logic and sense (which is obviously not common). You sound like the people in the car insurance commercial who complain that their car insurance company raised rates after an accident. Insurance companies would lose money if they didn't charge people who use the coverage more than those who do not. Or they can just charge everyone more and say "look, we don't raise rates after an accident". But then they run the risk good drivers will seek other coverage.

Preexisting condition , post existing condition, copay , deductible, group insurance, individual insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, supplemental insurance, referral, in network, out of network, generic medication , yearly coverage limit, annual coverage limit. Do your head spinning? We have made something very simple to very complex, because we all made to convince ourselves that people getting sick is a great opportunity to make some already rich guys even more richer. But if we approach it like any other advanced nation, it will become simpler and cheaper. But of course, somewhere some poor guy might benefit a little bit instead of the rich guys that rever. So it becomes unacceptable to most of us. I do not understand this, why every jumps to support these parasites as if they depend on your support? Why is it so hard to accept the reality ever other developed country is doing better than us? What do have to lose at least to give it a try?

 

[deleted480308]

Preexisting condition , post existing condition, copay , deductible, group insurance, individual insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, supplemental insurance, referral, in network, out of network, generic medication , yearly coverage limit, annual coverage limit. Do your head spinning? We have made something very simple to very complex, because we all made to convince ourselves that people getting sick is a great opportunity to make some already rich guys even more richer. But if we approach it like any other advanced nation, it will become simpler and cheaper. But of course, somewhere some poor guy might benefit a little bit instead of the rich guys that rever. So it becomes unacceptable to most of us. I do not understand this, why every jumps to support these parasites as if they depend on your support? Why is it so hard to accept the reality ever other developed country is doing better than us? What do have to lose at least to give it a try?

Property rights is what we have to lose.

It’s a big deal

 

[Stagg737]

So much naivety and childish ideation in this thread, but I've got 20 minutes between patients, so let's do this...

This ain’t fair dawg. These ppl don’t not comply because they wanna make your life hard. They either can’t get what they need, or have mental problems of just don’t understand the problem.

You gotta treat everybody, just because they ain’t perfect don’t mean you can hold care

BS. Yes, there are individuals who are disabled or mentally ill who cannot help themselves. As a psychiatrist I likely know this far better than you. You're grossly overestimating the number of people this applies to though. The vast majority are not so stupid or mentally disabled that they cannot make decisions for themselves. The person who eats at McDonald's 5 days a week, never exercises, smokes, and goes out and binge drinks every weekend has no right a heart surgery on the taxpayer's dollar. They're using your money and my money and the money of hard-working people who are scraping by to pay for the consequences of their actions.

I expect no one to pay for my problems or any other capable person's problems. To expect them to do so is something I find egregiously unethical.

Blaming the victim is the easiest thing to do. I have been following the healthcare debate for 20 years. Not even once I heared the politicians , media people blaming the insurance companies or the hospitals . They always blame the government or the poor people. Ironically these don’t have any say in what is going on. Everything is controlled by the politicians, insurance companies, media etc. but they never take responsibility.

Read what you wrote. You've been saying the insurance companies are evil and that the government is lining their pockets with money from insurance, but they have no say in what's going on? Are you even reading what you're writing?

Also, if you don't think anyone is blaming insurance companies or hospital I'd like to know what cave you're living in because plenty of people (including the people working for them like yourself supposedly) blame them, especially more than they blame poor people.

yeah cuz you learn things that easily. these ppl might not have the education that you do. maybe you explaining it above they level and they don't get it. also ppl got habits. I aint never gonna stop eating red beans chitlins or other food I was growed up on. its just my way of life. I exercise and drink water and stuff like that but you gotta live too. we cant be perfect, and maybe they trying.

This is all just a way ppl try to shift blame on the victim so they don't have to pitch in they fair share. that's all. they can afford bombs, guns, drones, and other means of killing, and building a stupid wall but they cant take care of they ppl? gtfo

Being ignorant or stupid is not an excuse for making bad choices and expecting everyone else to pay for those consequences. People are allowed to treat themselves occasionally, that's reasonable. But if someone wants to live a completely unhealthy lifestyle of excess then they can pay for the consequences themselves. As I said, you don't get to drink 5L of soda a day and then expect everyone else to pay for your diabetes. That doesn't mean you can never drink soda, just that people need to be reasonable and responsible, which many (perhaps most) are not.

Thinking of those people as victims is a childish and frankly unethical view, as they are fully capable of caring for themselves. It also diminishes the needs of actual victims who are ignored in the sea of "victims" who just don't want to take responsibility. I'm fine with providing free care to those who truly need it through no or little fault of their own, but I refuse to promote irresponsibility and wasting of resources on those who do not need them when there are those who truly do need them.

we gotta put the RIGHT ppl in positions of power. Obama tried to fix this mess but all the rules made it where he couldnt. we need to make it easier for our leaders to fix this mess. the ppl who set this system up did they best but they was old school. they lived hundreds of years ago, they didn't know what they was doing.

This is one of the more ignorant statements I've heard about the ACA and our system in general. Obama appointed everyone he wanted to in regards to implementing ACA. They failed. Period. The problem with the ACA is that it added enough to create more burden to the system without going far enough to actually provide the kind of change they were hoping to enact. It was yet another plan that wasn't thought through well enough and was completely out of line with the reality of what the system could support.

This system is also not as "old school" as you're saying. It's not hundreds of years old. The core of our system (insurance) wasn't made popular until the 1930's and 40's. Medicare wasn't really a thing until the 60's. The oldest part of the system is the VA, which is both the closest thing we have to single payer and the least functional/sustainable portion of our system.

But ultimately everyone including half the people will cry “Government is the problem, it is inefficient, it has to get out of the way”.

Earlier in this thread you were complaining about how government has been bought out by insurance companies and big pharma. Now you're saying we need them to be more involved. So which is it? Is gov corrupt and destroying our system or do we need to trust them more and let them take total control? Before you argue about "electing the right people", realize the US public has attempted to do this for 200+ years so why on Earth would you expect the public to suddenly put the right people in power now?

Taxes are there to help the society flourish. Part of that is helping poor people get back on their feet and going.

I'm not for single-payer healthcare, but this greedy "I only look out for myself, forget everyone else," is not going to help anyone, I'm sorry. Feel free to disagree with me.

No, taxes are there to ensure the basic infrastructure is supported and society does not collapse. That includes providing and maintaining roads, emergency response teams, passing and enforcing laws, etc. Their purpose is NOT to help society flourish, that is the responsibility of ourselves as well as those we elect ensuring that the opportunity exists, not that it actually happens.

I think you can legitimately make the argument that basic healthcare should be included in those responsibilities, but I believe that it's complicated enough that the only responsibility in that sense is to provide opportunity to access healthcare, not the right to actually have it provided.

The medical education has to be free. At the same time, we can pay the doctors well too. We have to discourage the malpractice suing or even eliminate it. It has become another looting business and puts the doctors under enormous pressure and increases the cost.

You do realize that the vast majority of the general public and elected officials disagree with you, right? Most people won't accept losing the opportunity to sue their docs if something goes wrong. People already think doctors are all rich and make too much, so good luck convincing them we should get free education. They'll laugh in your face (as others have laughed in mine due to their ignorance).

To them doctors are all rich people riding around in sports cars without a care in the world, why do we deserve free education when we're so rich$$$???? /sarcasm

If you do not cover preexisting condition, what kind of healthcare is it? Do you know that the insurance companies use kick the people out of coverage the moment they got sick? Please do not repeat the same lies propagated by these thieves? All around the world, most of the countries cover all the people without copay or deductible and at fraction of our cost. If it is possible for them it should be possible for us. No one can brainwash me, I am not an idiot. As I mentioned before, even without single payer, if the politicians allow all the people who choose to buy into Medicare and grant the administrators all the power to negotiate the prices like the other countries do and allow the import of drugs, most of the people will flick to Medicare. The insurance companies will bite the dust on their own and have a natural death. Then it will become single payer on it own. Whether you realize this or not, our politicians know that and that’s why they block it . You have to stop listening to politicians and stop watching cnn/msnbc/Fox news to understand what I try to say

This post has some profoundly incorrect ideas and make me question how you can possibly work for an insurance company. Do you understand the concept of risk pools? Do you have any idea about rates of morbidity in the US compared to other countries? Or how the pharmaceutical industry actually works? Do you have any idea how restrictive the FDA is? Do you really think administrators, who have continuously been shown to be the biggest source of healthcare waste in this country, are the people who are going to solve this problem?

Seriously, Idk where you're getting info from, but you need to take some time to read up more about they system you're criticizing instead of listing off the same talking points the people on those news channels you don't listen to are constantly making.

 

[Stagg737]

Preexisting condition , post existing condition, copay , deductible, group insurance, individual insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, supplemental insurance, referral, in network, out of network, generic medication , yearly coverage limit, annual coverage limit. Do your head spinning?

Not at all, that's all actually really basic. Do you really think complexities like this don't exist in other countries? If so you're woefully wrong about how those systems actually work at an administrative level.

What do have to lose at least to give it a try?

You really want to take the risk of a healthcare system which supports 350 million collapsing? Because to me we have a hell of a lot to lose if it fails...

 

[deleted927028]

Less govt...don’t ban the imports. Solved

I seriously ask this question. Why are we so afraid of the Government? Unless we do something illegal why someone have to hate it so much? Please enlighten me. It is like criminals asking for less police and more freedom . If the government is so bad, why do we spend so much money and effort in constituting one? We can surrender ourselves to the rich people and corporations. Isn’t it? Again this government hating phenomenon is only in our country. Seriously I am lost

 

[deleted480308]

I seriously ask this question. Why are we so afraid of the Government? Unless we do something illegal why someone have to hate it so much? Please enlighten me. It is like criminals asking for less police and more freedom . If the government is so bad, why do we spend so much money and effort in constituting one? We can surrender ourselves to the rich people and corporations. Isn’t it? Again this government hating phenomenon is only in our country. Seriously I am lost

You don’t know the same foreigners I do if you think they all love more govt

And yes I want less govt because they can remove options from the table and options tend to improve things as competition increases

 

[deleted927028]

You don’t know the same foreigners I do if you think they all love more govt

And yes I want less govt because they can remove options from the table and options tend to improve things as competition increases

Why wound Government remove the options? What do they gain by doing it? Can you please quote any one instance of them doing it? I am asking about government not corrupt politicians. Even if you can come up with one, I am 100% sure it would have been caused by republicans . The will screw up and come back and preach that govt cannot do anything

 

[Stagg737]

Why wound Government remove the options? What do they gain by doing it? Can you please quote any one instance of them doing it? I am asking about government not corrupt politicians. Even if you can come up with one, I am 100% sure it would have been caused by republicans . The will screw up and come back and preach that govt cannot do anything

After the ACA was implemented I lost my health insurance because the plan no longer existed. It was replaced by ACA plans which I did not qualify for. I also did not qualify for Medicaid because I attended school in a state I was not a resident in, so neither state would allow me to enroll in Medicare (both had expanded it). This was implemented by democrats.

Had I not bought catastrophic insurance through a private company, not only would I have not been insured, I would have had to pay a tax penalty when the government denied me access to care. There's one. How many more would you like?

 

[deleted927028]

Not at all, that's all actually really basic. Do you really think complexities like this don't exist in other countries? If so you're woefully wrong about how those systems actually work at an administrative level.



You really want to take the risk of a healthcare system which supports 350 million collapsing? Because to me we have a hell of a lot to lose if it fails...

If you are really worried about single payer collapsing the entire system, do you at least support the idea that the politicians should allow people to buy into Medicare if they choose to? Please say Yes or No.

 

[deleted480308]

Why wound Government remove the options? What do they gain by doing it? Can you please quote any one instance of them doing it? I am asking about government not corrupt politicians. Even if you can come up with one, I am 100% sure it would have been caused by republicans . The will screw up and come back and preach that govt cannot do anything

Your example of restricting pharmaceutical imports....you used that example today. And I don’t care what party does it

 

[deleted480308]

If you are really worried about single payer collapsing the entire system, do you at least support the idea that the politicians should allow people to buy into Medicare if they choose to? Please say Yes or No.

Medicare should be phased out and not exist

 

[deleted927028]

After the ACA was implemented I lost my health insurance because the plan no longer existed. It was replaced by ACA plans which I did not qualify for. I also did not qualify for Medicaid because I attended school in a state I was not a resident in, so neither state would allow me to enroll in Medicare (both had expanded it). This was implemented by democrats.

Had I not bought catastrophic insurance through a private company, not only would I have not been insured, I would have had to pay a tax penalty when the government denied me access to care. There's one. How many more would you like?

Which plan you had before Obamacare ? Did Obama ask the private insurance companies to deny your insurance? All the plans under Obamacare were private insurance plans , designed by them and premiums are set by them. So if you blame someone it cannot be Obama . I am curious, why did you attempt to enroll into Medicaid ? I thought you don’t believe in Government? Now I see, when you need Government it has to come and rescue you. But once you start earning enough money, you don’t want it to help other needy . Sounds like a typical republican

 

[Stagg737]

If you are really worried about single payer collapsing the entire system, do you at least support the idea that the politicians should allow people to buy into Medicare if they choose to? Please say Yes or No.

For basic needs I would be fine with that. I would actually support some form of a two-tier system, however I am unsure how I would actually implement it.

In my ideal world, the US would be a single-payer system as it would make my life far simpler and standardize everything across the board. However we don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real world which has real world problems and real world limitations as to what's possible. I truly believe that a single-payer system which provides the kind of care that people expect of it is completely unsustainable and would destroy the US system. We have neither the resources in terms of finances, facilities or staff to make it work. The US populous is also far too sick, far too demanding, and far too irresponsible for such a system to be successful. It's just not realistic in any form here.

 

[deleted927028]

Your example of restricting pharmaceutical imports....you used that example today. And I don’t care what party does it

Yes, then blame the politicians whichever party they belong to. Not the government.

 

[deleted927028]

For basic needs I would be fine with that. I would actually support some form of a two-tier system, however I am unsure how I would actually implement it.

In my ideal world, the US would be a single-payer system as it would make my life far simpler and standardize everything across the board. However we don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real world which has real world problems and real world limitations as to what's possible. I truly believe that a single-payer system which provides the kind of care that people expect of it is completely unsustainable and would destroy the US system. We have neither the resources in terms of finances, facilities or staff to make it work. The US populous is also far too sick, far too demanding, and far too irresponsible for such a system to be successful. It's just not realistic in any form here.

Thank you sir for accepting part of what I try to say. There is enough money, we don’t have the heart. That’s all. Please read my post regarding oil companies.

 

[Stagg737]

Yes, then blame the politicians whichever party they belong to. Not the government.

Who do you think runs the government?

Thank you sir for accepting part of what I try to say. There is enough money, we don’t have the heart. That’s all. Please read my post regarding oil companies.

The problem isn't that we don't have the heart to do it. It's that people actually have the brains to prevent it from happening, thankfully.

Which plan you had before Obamacare ? Did Obama ask the private insurance companies to deny your insurance? All the plans under Obamacare were private insurance plans , designed by them and premiums are set by them. So if you blame someone it cannot be Obama . I am curious, why did you attempt to enroll into Medicaid ? I thought you don’t believe in Government? Now I see, when you need Government it has to come and rescue you. But once you start earning enough money, you don’t want it to help other needy . Sounds like a typical republican

A lot of really bad assumptions here. The Obama administration's mandate meant the plan I was on (BCBS) no longer met the standards that the ACA set. So yes, the Obama administration was responsible for that plan ceasing to exist through over-regulation. The plans were private plans, but I did not qualify for them because I did not have a high enough income when I worked in fast-food to even apply for a bronze-level plan. I was told I would have to apply for Medicaid, which I did and was denied.

I would have just gone without insurance altogether, but the individual mandate set by the ACA made that illegal and I didn't want a tax penalty on my record. I was not trying to rely on the gov. I was forced to. I never said I don't believe in gov, I said I don't think they can efficiently run a single-payer healthcare system here. Don't put words in my mouth.

I have never asked the gov to rescue me. I've never applied for disability even after a major injury. I have not applied for food stamps or housing vouchers when my income was low enough to qualify. I have never utilized a free clinic or other form of handout because I felt those aspects of my life were my responsibility. So I find it funny that you presume I asked the gov to rescue me. At the same time I volunteer in my community. Before residency I tutored elementary school kids on a regular basis. I've helped with disaster relief organizations. I've volunteered in free clinics and hospitals. So your presumption that I don't help the needy is again completely baseless and wrong.

Finally, I'm not a Republican. I've never been a Republican and I've never voted for one. Your assumptions are based on a bogeyman perpetuated by the left and you claim to not be brainwashed? In all seriousness, you need to take a step back and not make assumptions about the people you interact with, as you're clearly judging them based on your own assumptions which are wrong. This thread isn't about politics and neither have any of my statements other than addressing your false accusations. If you can't separate the two then there is no point in continuing this conversation.

 

[deleted480308]

Which plan you had before Obamacare ? Did Obama ask the private insurance companies to deny your insurance? All the plans under Obamacare were private insurance plans , designed by them and premiums are set by them. So if you blame someone it cannot be Obama . I am curious, why did you attempt to enroll into Medicaid ? I thought you don’t believe in Government? Now I see, when you need Government it has to come and rescue you. But once you start earning enough money, you don’t want it to help other needy . Sounds like a typical republican

because the govt changed the rules of what was allowed and required in plans it literally made some plans illegal and dramatically increased the cost of most plans at cash value

Yes, then blame the politicians whichever party they belong to. Not the government.

but keep handing them a nearly omnipotent power and just cross our fingers that we elect more principled leaders? No thanks

 

[deleted480308]

Which plan you had before Obamacare ? Did Obama ask the private insurance companies to deny your insurance? All the plans under Obamacare were private insurance plans , designed by them and premiums are set by them. So if you blame someone it cannot be Obama . I am curious, why did you attempt to enroll into Medicaid ? I thought you don’t believe in Government? Now I see, when you need Government it has to come and rescue you. But once you start earning enough money, you don’t want it to help other needy . Sounds like a typical republican

because the govt changed the rules of what was allowed and required in plans it literally made some plans illegal and dramatically increased the cost of most plans at cash value

Yes, then blame the politicians whichever party they belong to. Not the government.

but keep handing them a nearly omnipotent power and just cross our fingers that we elect more principled leaders? No thanks

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Free healthcare applies to two of them

Not even kind of.

You are delusional

About sums up the entire thread lol

Why are we so afraid of the Government?

You need to seriously study more world history.

There is enough money

Oh there is? Please do tell where this money is located.

 

[deleted927028]

because the govt changed the rules of what was allowed and required in plans it literally made some plans illegal and dramatically increased the cost of most plans at cash value

but keep handing them a nearly omnipotent power and just cross our fingers that we elect more principled leaders? No thanks

If you look at Obamacare without any party bias, it is just like a big group plan similar to what companies offer. The group plans covered preexisting conditions too. The only difference is that Obama made it mandatory at the insistence of insurance companies. To be fair we cannot ask the insurance companies to accept preexisting conditions without making the coverage mandatory. The premiums , copay and deductibles go up every year for every plan, not exclusively Obamacare. Republicans made it sound like the premiums went up only for Obamacare is disingenuous of them. Just because they attached obama’s Name to it , they wanted to destroy it. That’s all. Again, the premiums or the plans were set by insurance companies only. There is no point in blaming Obama , he was as powerless as any other politician.

 

[deleted927028]

Just to explicit, the Obamacare did not offer anything more than a typical group plan. With such a big group of millions compared to typical group plan, the insurance companies should have charged less premium. Hey, but no one can question them, this is the only capitalist country in the world.

 

[deleted480308]

If you look at Obamacare without any party bias, it is just like a big group plan similar to what companies offer. The group plans covered preexisting conditions too. The only difference is that Obama made it mandatory at the insistence of insurance companies. To be fair we cannot ask the insurance companies to accept preexisting conditions without making the coverage mandatory. The premiums , copay and deductibles go up every year for every plan, not exclusively Obamacare. Republicans made it sound like the premiums went up only for Obamacare is disingenuous of them. Just because they attached obama’s Name to it , they wanted to destroy it. That’s all. Again, the premiums or the plans were set by insurance companies only. There is no point in blaming Obama , he was as powerless as any other politician.

Actuarial math says you don’t know what you are talking about. Yes there is some increase in most years but you simply cannot add years to kids being covered, remove maximums, ban pre-existing exclusions, and add minimum coverages without dramatically increasing the cost. It happened. You can’t pretend that it didn’t

That’s not party line stuff, that’s math. It happened to the 2 plans I had employer and employee numbers for at the time and it happened a lot of people

And again, the problem here is govt forcing people into a flawed system. If companies want to charge market rates for a no-exclusion plan? Good luck finding customers but at least anyone who buys had a choice. But it’s such a crappy deal for millions that the govt is used to force it

 

[deleted480308]

Just to explicit, the Obamacare did not offer anything more than a typical group plan. With such a big group of millions compared to typical group plan, the insurance companies should have charged less premium. Hey, but no one can question them, this is the only capitalist country in the world.

I do remember a govt court case vs nuns and the amish over forcing them to provide birth control....so there certainly were some additional reqs

 

[deleted927028]

Actually there is an easy way to bring the Obamacare cost down instantaneously. If the president announced today that since the insurance companies are not making any money on Obamacare, I don’t want to burden them and I request the subscribers to buy into Medicare starting today. I bet all the insurance companies will visit the white house tomorrow and fall at his legs. They will make it even more cheaper than the typical group plan. But helping people is not of course Trump’s intention but just to destroy the Obamacare. That’s all

 

[deleted480308]

Actually there is an easy way to bring the Obamacare cost down instantaneously. If the president announced today that since the insurance companies are not making any money on Obamacare, I don’t want to burden them and I request the subscribers to buy into Medicare starting today. I bet all the insurance companies will visit the white house tomorrow and fall at his legs. They will make it even more cheaper than the typical group plan. But helping people is not of course Trump’s intention but just to destroy the Obamacare. That’s all

You really love the idea of govt taking over things, it’s illogical

 

[Lawpy]

Man, this thread is reeking of idealism and this irrational (and frightening) love for big government.

 

[neoexile]

Man, this thread is reeking of idealism and this irrational (and frightening) love for big government.

.....................Ya, I dont think anyone is advocating for communism or facism here. There is too much hyperbole on both sides =_=

 

[Lawpy]

.....................Ya, I dont think anyone is advocating for communism or facism here. There is too much hyperbole on both sides =_=

? big government is referring to this strong reliance of government taking over healthcare (and other sectors). not sure were you're getting communism or fascism from.

also this thread is basically inexperienced premeds arguing with experienced med students and physicians.

 

[Stagg737]

Actually there is an easy way to bring the Obamacare cost down instantaneously. If the president announced today that since the insurance companies are not making any money on Obamacare, I don’t want to burden them and I request the subscribers to buy into Medicare starting today. I bet all the insurance companies will visit the white house tomorrow and fall at his legs. They will make it even more cheaper than the typical group plan. But helping people is not of course Trump’s intention but just to destroy the Obamacare. That’s all

Legitimate question. Do you think that individuals on Medicare receive all their care and medications for free? If not, how are they paying?

 

[neoexile]

? big government is referring to this strong reliance of government taking over healthcare (and other sectors). not sure were you're getting communism or fascism from.

also this thread is basically inexperienced premeds arguing with experienced med students and physicians.

What I'm saying is that this is what this is being framed as. If you are saying further regulations on the costs of healthcare or coverage for people that can't afford healthcare is bad (which is what you are saying), then I simply disagree. If we are trusting the government to run the most powerful military in the world, then why can't we trust it to ensure it gives healthcare to all Americans?

What are you trying to argue? That the government can be big in one way but it cannot in another?

 

[Alakazam123]

This huge reluctance to have a universal coverage system is one of the reasons why we will lag behind the rest of the developed world.

 

[Lawpy]

What I'm saying is that this is what this is being framed as. If you are saying further regulations on the costs of healthcare or coverage for people that can't afford healthcare is bad (which is what you are saying), then I simply disagree. If we are trusting the government to run the most powerful military in the world, then why can't we trust it to ensure it gives healthcare to all Americans?

What are you trying to argue? That the government can be big in one way but it cannot in another?

Uh I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I just expressed my surprise that this thread is going on so long despite reeking of idealism and support for big government.

 

[neoexile]

This huge reluctance to have a universal coverage system is one of the reasons why we will lag behind the rest of the developed world.

This and also the inability to confront the arbitrary prices that people can charge for healthcare. Both of these reasons are contributing to why the US has a poor rating for healthcare across the world stage.

Uh I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I just expressed my surprise that this thread is going on so long despite reeking of idealism and support for big government.

You are TRUSTING the government to be big enough to have the strongest military in the world. I dont understand why if you trust the government with that type of power, that it cannot be trusted with healthcare.

 

[deleted927028]

Legitimate question. Do you think that individuals on Medicare receive all their care and medications for free? If not, how are they paying?

Of course not free. They pay into it throughout their working career and receive the benefits at 65 or 66.

When I say letting people buy into Medicare, I mean that Medicare should set a premium to get into Medicare for those under 66 and willing to buy. You can’t give it for free until they turn 66

 

[neoexile]

Dude have you ever lived anywhere in "the rest of the developed world"

News flash, the entirety of Europe is a ****hole

I'm guessing thats where you are talking about lol

I'm certain that the majority of European's would probably disagree.

 

[deleted927028]

Man, this thread is reeking of idealism and this irrational (and frightening) love for big government.

Why it has to frighten anyone? We are letting 66 and above to get into Medicare. Does it frighten you? Then why letting willing people younger than 66 by paying a premium should frighten you? The government control Medicaid, military, roads, water, fire department etc, why not healthcare? Every other major country has government healthcare, why they are not frightened? You are thinking from inside, I am thinking from outside. That’s the difference

 

[neoexile]

Why it has to frighten anyone? We are letting 66 and above to get into Medicare. Does it frighten you? Then why letting willing people younger than 66 by paying a premium should frighten you? The government control Medicaid, military, roads, water, fire department etc, why not healthcare? Every other major country has government healthcare, why they are not frightened? You are thinking from inside, I am thinking from outside. That’s the difference

It's because they are thinking that big government == Facism or Communism. Which is incorrect.

Or else they are thinking that big government is inefficient. Which is correct, but it also ensures people get what they need.