How can you tell how competitive an internship site is?

[stilllooking]

On another thread, a poster reccommended at we not only look at the percentage of applicants who get internships but also where they get internships. My question is, how do you evalulate how good/competitive an internship site is? For example, one schools lists placing an applicant at CU-Boulder (133 applicants/25 interviews for 3 internship spots)--is that easy, competitive, or somewhere in-between? Is there a good way to judge the numbers?

Thanks.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

On another thread, a poster reccommended at we not only look at the percentage of applicants who get internships but also where they get internships. My question is, how do you evaluate how good/competitive an internship site is? For example, one schools lists placing an applicant at CU-Boulder (133 applicants/25 interviews for 3 internship spots)--is that easy, competitive, or somewhere in-between? Is there a good way to judge the numbers?

Thanks.

I'm not sure you can go by application numbers because sites in major cities (particularly NYC) get a TON of applications. Many of them are great sites, though I think some get a bump because of location, just like sites in less desirable places get receive fewer apps because of location and not for any lack of great training or experience.

I looked predominantly in the south (with a few sites sprinkled across the US), and I think they had a pretty big range of applicants (130-350+). Pretty much all of the sites I applied to would be considered competitive to very competitive because of their post-doc placement success/opportunities. I know from looking at some sites in major metro areas that my sites received less applicants, but based on the people I met on interviews....even my 'less' competitive sites had outstanding applicants. I stuck to university based counseling centers that offered additional opportunities like teaching, research, outreach....and academic teaching hospitals that offered out-patient, in-patient, and specialized rotations. Because I was looking for two pretty specific experiences, it cut out 90% of the sites, and let me cut down my list from 30ish sites when all was said and done. I then looked at places I'd consider living, hoping to stay in/around where I do my internship. All of the places I'm considering either have a formal post-doc option or place really well into university-based counseling programs and/or hospitals....which I think makes all of the sites pretty competitive at the end of the day.

APPIC's online directory provides an area for sites to publish data including the average # of clinical hours their interns received, # of integrated reports written, etc. When I was reviewing internship sites I look predominantly at their training goals, post-doc placement, and focus on supervision. I also looked at their published stats on the type of applicants they took. I didn't consider anywhere that wasn't APA-accredited, had poor post-doc placement and/or placed at settings I wouldn't want to be, and didn't have supervision as one of their top foci. For instance, I looked at a hospital where the lowest # of integrated reports written for their interns was 80-something, which implied this may be an area of focus and/or something they expect from their interns.

Based on the places I've interviewed at so far, I made some great choices, though I definitely took a lot of time to review the sites (months...i'm sort of OCD like that).

-t

 

[psychanon]

This is a bit tough. First, there are tons of internships, and there is no ranking system. It's a bit hard to evaluate them based on the number of applicants received, as T4C explained, because the number of applicants is heavily influenced by location. Second, different types of internships are better suited for different people. Generally, the more strongly research oriented ones (e.g., Brown, UIC, Western Psych) are considered more competitive, but on the other hand, someone who is a good match for one of those internship (through publications and grants) may not have a chance at a more clinically oriented internship (because of insufficient hours). So your top internship could differ from another person's. Finally, a lot of people go to internships based on location rather than quality. It is a pain to move across the country for a one year gig when you are 29, married, and have an infant, and/or own a house (as an example). So, a lot of people sacrifice internship quality because of life demands. And truly, it doesn't matter that much. Internship doesn't impact your career nearly as much as other factors.

The closest thing to a ranking system that I know of (and if anyone knows of a better one, I'd love to be pointed toward it-- I'm getting to the stage where I'm thinking about where to apply fro internship) is this website: http://psych.arizona.edu/apcs/members.php
It's the website of the Academy of Psychological Clinical Science. The member programs that it lists are all high-quality, research-oriented programs, which would be considered competitive (it also lists grad programs). There are, however, plenty of other good internship sites in addition to these.

Boston Consortium in Clinical Psychology
Brown University Medical School Consortium
University of Illinois at Chicago, Department of Psychiatry
Palo Alto VA Center
Medical University of South Carolina
VA Maryland Health Care System /University of Maryland Internship Consortium
University of Washington School of Medicine
Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic
University of Wisconsin School of Medicine

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It also gets confusing because some sites act as "backup" sites for people, so they may get a lot of applicants who realistically won't be going there. I tried to only apply to sites that I thought I'd really fit in, though in retrospect I applied to a few that I was willing to make some concessions for the training experience. (ex. Rural settings that offered great training with diverse populations or more assessment focused than I would have liked). For better or worse I actually had an O'fer (no interviews) from the sites I considered a compromise for what I was looking for. I didn't match as well to them, but I didn't want to apply to too few sites.

-t

 

[Ollie123]

Boston Consortium in Clinical Psychology
Brown University Medical School Consortium
University of Illinois at Chicago, Department of Psychiatry
Palo Alto VA Center
Medical University of South Carolina
VA Maryland Health Care System /University of Maryland Internship Consortium
University of Washington School of Medicine
Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic
University of Wisconsin School of Medicine

Welp, my search is done. Thanks psychanon

Not really, since match is also an important aspect of internship. Chances are though, I will be applying to at least half of those if I can manage to make myself a competitive candidate.

I got a sense of the above even before finding out about the academy though, just by looking at people I considered "role models". I checked out the CVs of many of the younger faculty I think are the most successful and sure enough, I noticed quite an "oversampling" of people from Brown and Western, with quite a few from others on this list, and some not on this list. Of course, that will be dictated somewhat by your interests - like grad schools, not every internship site will have someone within your sub-specialty.

Actually I'm surprised UF isn't on there since they seem like one of the few schools that provides great research training, while still offering all the clinical opportunities that a more clinically-oriented school does. I'd heard the same about their internship.

Ah well. Anyhow - that's how I plan on looking when it comes around to it. Obviously, if your goal is clinical work I imagine looking at faculty is probably a poor plan, but you might want to track down the CVs of some people running large, successful private practices, or the higher up folks in major hospitals.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

One of my supervisors went through the Brown Consortium (Neuropsych focus), and she was definitely a top flight candidate when she applied. She was pushing me to apply there as she still knew people, but it wasn't the right fit for me as their slant seemed much more research/academic, though from everything I've heard it has great training and they place very well into post-docs.

I know of people at UF, and they have a very strong faculty there. I know UMD has been pumping a lot of money into their grad programs over the last 6-8 years, though I'm not sure how much went to areas that the psych dept touches. It is a great place to live though, I'd take it above Gainesville.

-t

 

[psydstudent2020]

I'm not sure you can go by application numbers because sites in major cities (particularly NYC) get a TON of applications. Many of them are great sites, though I think some get a bump because of location, just like sites in less desirable places get receive fewer apps because of location and not for any lack of great training or experience.

I looked predominantly in the south (with a few sites sprinkled across the US), and I think they had a pretty big range of applicants (130-350+). Pretty much all of the sites I applied to would be considered competitive to very competitive because of their post-doc placement success/opportunities. I know from looking at some sites in major metro areas that my sites received less applicants, but based on the people I met on interviews....even my 'less' competitive sites had outstanding applicants. I stuck to university based counseling centers that offered additional opportunities like teaching, research, outreach....and academic teaching hospitals that offered out-patient, in-patient, and specialized rotations. Because I was looking for two pretty specific experiences, it cut out 90% of the sites, and let me cut down my list from 30ish sites when all was said and done. I then looked at places I'd consider living, hoping to stay in/around where I do my internship. All of the places I'm considering either have a formal post-doc option or place really well into university-based counseling programs and/or hospitals....which I think makes all of the sites pretty competitive at the end of the day.

APPIC's online directory provides an area for sites to publish data including the average # of clinical hours their interns received, # of integrated reports written, etc. When I was reviewing internship sites I look predominantly at their training goals, post-doc placement, and focus on supervision. I also looked at their published stats on the type of applicants they took. I didn't consider anywhere that wasn't APA-accredited, had poor post-doc placement and/or placed at settings I wouldn't want to be, and didn't have supervision as one of their top foci. For instance, I looked at a hospital where the lowest # of integrated reports written for their interns was 80-something, which implied this may be an area of focus and/or something they expect from their interns.

Based on the places I've interviewed at so far, I made some great choices, though I definitely took a lot of time to review the sites (months...i'm sort of OCD like that).

-t

Where can I find the data on how many hours and reports interns had for sites? I couldn’t find it anywhere on APPIC.