How could this happen?

[dee vee emm]

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Honestly this makes me sick... especially since it's so close to home for me... and the fact that there was a veterinarian involved... how could HE of all people, the one who took an oath to help and protect animals, be part of this???

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...arged-with-cruelty-to-animals/article1378385/

👎thumbdown

 

[flyhi]

This also makes my stomach turn. Why? Why when you have the ability to euthanize you let animals suffer and die without any dignity? I don't get this one at all.

 

[snapcall]

I think the barf smiley says it best. Words fail me.

 

[sumstorm]

Maybe this is naive of me, but I am a big believer in waiting to see what all the evidence presents before casting judgement. I have had too much experience with the media/press/peta/etc propaganda to believe that all the information used to sell news/advertisement space is accurate. At this point, a lawyer was the one quoted about the condition of the animals, not another vet. Also, we can have really sick animals that are getting care and not recovering as expected. I am NOT saying that is the case here; I really don't know...but I do believe following the media isn't as informational as following the court case.

 

[Chapelle]

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[sumstorm]

What is strange though is that the article claims management made medical euthanasia decisions, not the vet. And keeping that dangerous dog (Bandit) is not good. We'll see what the court says.

Sadly, management or board decisions on euthanasia happen at quite a few no-kill shelters. Also, remember, shelters (for the most part) are run by management, not by vets. Just like we can't force a private owner to euth, we generally can't force a shelter manager. Many shelters don't even use vets, at least here in the south. From what I read the dangerous dog belonged (privately owned) to the guy who was arrested...however, I don't see why they didn't have skilled enough individuals during the arrest to snare it without using a noxious spray.

 

[marycatherine]

If you walked into my shelter, you'd notice we have a lot of very sick animals, but that's because some of them come to us that way. Some cats shoved into a packed facility are going to get upper-respiratory despite our best efforts. These cats get very sick, but we give them meds and try to get them fostered and out of the shelter-- the only real way to ensure they get better. The shelter can do everything right and still have very very sick cats.

Too many times do disgruntled volunteers approach me like "Rusty's cage is a mess!!!" when in fact I just cleaned Rusty's cage but apparently he decided to poop and then roll around in it. (Of course I'll go back and clean it, but to the outside observer it could easily look like he was left to sit in his mess.)

And as for food, we don't leave any food out because our volunteers like to feed our pets. This has caused many a pet to get sick. Volunteers whine that the animals must be hungry, but we feed them twice a day on a strict schedule-- and they get an appropriate amount of food, they just eat it all sometimes.

I don't know this situation, but as someone who works at a shelter I have to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[bunnity]

I too am in the wait for the evidence camp. I'm not saying that there is no way this shelter has truly screwed up stuff going on, but what the general public perceives as screwed up can be inaccurate. I work at a state of the art shelter (as shelters go🙄) and there are still plenty of very sick animals and dirty cages. The cages get cleaned every 8 hours but bored and/or unhousetrained animals will trash them in no time. The thing with sickness is it's true that many come in healthy, but the stress of leaving their homes and being in a cage, and the sheer number of them, make it almost inevitable that they will catch something. Think about a human hospital and how common it is to contact MRSA or C diff if you stay more than a few days, and it is not surprising that a high volume shelter would experience such high rates of infection.

The thing with euthanasia decisions is that you have to understand that many shelters are run by a board of directors or a committee. That is because those are the big donors and the shelter would be screwed without them. It is frustrating in countless situations, because the people calling the shots are not the people actually out there working in the shelter, so I am not surprised that it could also be problematic in euthanasia decisions. Even at my shelter we have to have multiple people sign off on euthanasias: a manager, a behaviorist, and a vet. That's how it usually works. Ideally, if an animal is obviously on its way out and suffering, the vet can make the decision alone. I've seen that happen, but only in very acute cases. In others, the animal is miserable but not sick enough to be put down on the spot, and it takes much longer than it should to have all the right people sign papers. I've spent a week hassling people to get a certain (sick, sad, neurologic, untreatable) dog euthanized, and my job is not at all medically related. So what I'm saying in a very roundabout way is that committee euthanasia decisions are not unusual and that they are frustratingly slow in even the best shelters. While it sucks, the system does keep everyone accountable. I think it is better than having one person making those decisions, because it helps everyone think through the decision and make sure it is the best one.

At the smaller city shelter I worked at, vets had a decent amount of sway as far as what went on. At the large city shelter I'm at now, they are definitely not in charge. They do mostly what regular vets do: surgery, seeing clinic patients, or ICU for mostly outside patients. They do not deal with the shelter animals much and they do not run the shelter. They are forced to comply with management's decisions (like not FIV/FeLV testing... sigh). Something to consider if you are interested in shelter med.

 

[shelterURIgirl]

This is one of the reasons I am so passionate about shelter medicine. Its a huge area of veterinary medicine that the majority of vets don't know anything about and most don't even have the basic knowledge of how the different types of shelters operate.

From the description, it sounds like this was a privately funded shelter (not animal control) that was trying to be a "no kill" shelter and save every animal that potentially could be saved. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just sounds like they didn't have the experience or resources to make the proper decisions that would have prevented this situation.

Like others, I think its best to wait for the evidence before jumping to conclusions. I do want to make the following points though.

-Vets often become scapegoats in a situation like this. Imagine a bunch of uneducated board members trying to enforce policies that aren't feasible. Certain public ******s (I wont say names) have claimed to be experts and with the charisma of jesus have begun "educating" the public on how to run a shelter. When these ridiculous policies fail it can be easy lash out and blame the veterinarian. Bunnity is right, the veterinarians do not run the shelter and can have very little say.

-The cage in the rafters was made to sound like a cat was put up there on purpose to suffer a slow and painful death. The building is overrun with ferals and likely a volunteer or employee set a humane trap up there and forgot to check it. The media sounded pretty naive with the info so I wouldn't trust anything you read yet.

-Most cats will break with URI about 7-10 days after entering a shelter. This is straight from the literature. It is COMMON for a cat to enter a shelter healthy and then get URI. This happens in even the most well maintained shelters and is impossibly frustrating. Even when the cats leave on Day 5 they still commonly break with URI on day 7-10, which is why so many cats get sick right after adoption. This is why its one of my biggest passions in life, hence the name "shelterURIgirl". 🙂

 

[Biomajir]

This is sad, but I too would wait to see what happens after they investigate more. None of those pictures looked too horrible, mostly because there is no way of knowing how long the cages were like that. Sick animals (and even healthy ones) will roll around in their cages and spill litter and food all over. And animals with GI problems can mess up a cage every few minutes. The picture of the ducks looked normal to me too, do you know how often a baby duck poops? A group of around 7 little baby ducks would be next to impossible to keep clean in a small cage like that. And we don't know if the animals got that sick in the shelter, or if they came in that way. It may very well prove that the shelter is at fault, but they really need to do more investigations.

 

[bunnity]

-The cage in the rafters was made to sound like a cat was put up there on purpose to suffer a slow and painful death. The building is overrun with ferals and likely a volunteer or employee set a humane trap up there and forgot to check it. The media sounded pretty naive with the info so I wouldn't trust anything you read yet.

Or maybe the cage was set and checked the next few days and there wasn't a cat in it. Then six months later a cat wandered into it and got trapped. Not good, but not malicious.

Agree with everything you said.

 

[sumstorm]

Or maybe the cage was set and checked the next few days and there wasn't a cat in it. Then six months later a cat wandered into it and got trapped. Not good, but not malicious.

Agree with everything you said.

Also, some live cages can be entered even when not intentionally set. I have seen incidents where wild animals have entered unset cages that were in protected areas as a save haven from other animals, bad storms, etc.... only to not have a way out again. I know the clinic I worked at and the local shelter both store live trap cages in the attic, and I know that at least half of those have potential entry when not set (a funnel style vs a drop door style) and it is a risk.

 

[ratbandit]

I worked in a shelter for a looooong time and these pics do not really look that bad to me. Sick and stressed out animals get diarrhea, feral cats flip out in their cages and make messes, sick animals will look "gasp" sick. And double agent "staffers?" - lame. This is what happens when a shelter is understaffed, overwhelmed, and has a crappy disillusioned board of directors.

 

[marycatherine]

I worked in a shelter for a looooong time and these pics do not really look that bad to me. Sick and stressed out animals get diarrhea, feral cats flip out in their cages and make messes, sick animals will look "gasp" sick. And double agent "staffers?" - lame. This is what happens when a shelter is understaffed, overwhelmed, and has a crappy disillusioned board of directors.

Yeah what disappoints me would be if it were staff that were taking photos and reporting everything. If you've got time to snap pictures of it, you've got time to clean up the run.

Those people that are outraged by the photos should take the time to volunteer at their local shelter. I know if we had literally 2 more people at my shelter in the morning, the animals would receive so much more attention. Every single volunteer matters.

 

[Trilt]

I'm sorry, but picture #15 almost makes me laugh. Man, pee and poop in an area for dogs? That's totally abuse.

I'm personally hoping that this is overblown.

 

[dee vee emm]

As an added thing:
I heard today that the legal fees for all the people that may or may not get charged are getting paid by the donations made to the shelter.😱

 

[Danae00]

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[marycatherine]

I'm a little bit surprised by how many people seem to think this is "normal". I know different areas throughout Canada and the US have completely different situations regarding the number of volunteers available, the funds they have to maintain the kennel areas, and the number of animals they intake. But I've never seen anything remotely like this in the shelters I've been to in other Canadian cities (one of which I volunteered at). I find this pretty appalling.

At the shelter I volunteered at sick animals are kept in a completely separate area from healthy ones and were under veterinary care. At the time they didn't have a separate room for new arrivals, but they did try to keep them far away from the "longer term" residents to prevent any unknown infections from spreading. Anyone who went into the kennel areas had to use disinfectant on their hands and step in liquid disinfectant as well to clean their shoes. Cages were cleaned repeatedly throughout the day as needed. Volunteers were always on patrol to ensure that there was fresh water. Dogs were walked at least once a day, cats were "cuddled", and other fuzzy creatures (i.e. bunnies) got to run around one of the "visiting rooms" when possible. Newly ill animals were identified almost immediately.

If a shelter doesn't have enough staff or volunteers to look after the animals in their care in an adequate manner then they need to take in less animals. Or give up the "no kill" status and euthanize some of the ones they already have. I just don't see any justification for an animal shelter to be in that type of condition.

/getting off my soap box

I work at a great shelter, and I see messy cages and sick animals daily.

When an animal (cat or dog) comes into our shelter it goes to the "stray" room, where it is monitored for a week (usually) to watch for sickness before introducing it to the greater population. We additionally have an "intake" room which serves as stray overload and for middle-of-the-night animal control drop-offs. After being tested by a tech (me!) for diseases (FIV/heartworm/etc.) the animal is put into one of a few "adopt" areas that are open to the public-- these include dog runs, cat condos, and typical cages for cats. All cages are cleaned multiple times a day, disinfected in the mornings and whenever we catch that they're dirty.

But there are still sick cats there. Any cat that shows sign of sickness is moved to an "isolation" room-- where they get a view of some birds and trees and are put on meds. But upper respiratory is going to happen in a shelter and many cats are put on meds and look like the kitten shown in those photos. Most of our cats improve, a few don't. Those that need help are fostered, those that eventually become too sick are euthanized. We do not have a vet to authorize, it is primarily the head tech and my manager's decision, though I have made the decision before. (Edited to add: I mean I have taken cats to my boss and held them up and said "this cat needs to be put down" and we've taken care of it immediately. I couldn't just euthanize without first gaining permission, we're not totally free for all, haha). We're lucky in that there are a handful of us certified to euthanize, so we can get the job done when needed. But just because there are sick animals doesn't mean the shelter is doing poorly, in my opinion there is no feasible way to prevent upper respiratory.

Additionally, animals will mess up their cages. Just because volunteers cuddle their favorite kittens or people take dogs on walks (ours go out at least 4 times a day) doesn't mean an animal isn't going to throw it's stuff everywhere. Dogs aren't usually potty-trained when they arrive. Stray and feral cats aren't allowed to be handled by the general public and you try cleaning a feral cat's cage every ten minutes to keep it spotless-- trust me most of them would rather hide under the blankets and will mess it up again in a heartbeat.

I think it's unfortunate that there is not someone there who can quickly make the decision to euthanize animals, but otherwise I don't see anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Danae00]

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[marycatherine]

Oh I don't dispute there are going to be some animals that get sick, and there are going to be a few messy cages at one time.

But it really sounds like here that *most* of the cages were filthy and neglected. I believe one report said at least seven animals were so sick that they had to be immediately put down. Animals were being fed food that was up to 6 years expired. A dog that had previously mauled a kid and was under a euthanasia order by the courts was being kept illegally as an office pet, and the dog tried to attack one of the officers in the raid. And then there is the cat that died in the live trap. This just doesn't sound like things that are innocent mistakes that would happen at any shelter. And certainly not all in such a short period of time.

It depends on who is looking. If you came to my shelter, you might be able to say that a handful of the cats should be put down-- but we know them and are hoping that another week on medicine will help them out. One vet might say they are awful and should be put down, another might disagree.

Our food is donated. We go through it to check that everything is up to date, and sometimes we get donated old food. We throw it out, but I could see where old food could be left on the shelf (maybe they hadn't thrown it out yet). If someone forgot to look, it'd be unfortunate for sure.

As for the dog, I think that was an oversight on the director/owner's part. We have animals and pets that come to visit occasionally (but stay up front to minimize disease) but to have a dangerous animal there is a liability. However perhaps the owner couldn't keep the pet at home for fear of aggression with other animals, and was looking to reverse the decision? I think it should have been done better, but again can be explained.

I don't want to give them too many free passes, but shelters are weird places and if people don't have full insight they might get the wrong impression.

 

[Willowhand]

I understand what many of you are saying about most of this not being too unusual or indicative of neglect, however I would like to point out that there are also shelters in this country (and Canada) which do look clean and safe even from an outsider's perspective. So while it may be impossible to uphold such standards when money and resources are limited, it is not impossible for a facility to give animals care with more dignity than is apparent here.

So while I agree that it is unwise to judge the situation so harshly without knowing the details, I do think it is good to have the less-than-ideal reality of shelter life brought into the public view. With discretion on the part of the media 🙂rofl🙂, bringing the issue of poor funding and lack of resources out from behind those cute, healthy puppies out front can help promote more support from the community.

There's a shelter in a relatively wealthy area about a half hour from me, and their strong positive presence in the surrounding towns and city wins them a lot of respect and support. With the money and supplies they receive, the management and volunteers are able to maintain a clean and pleasant facility from all perspectives (with the exception of sick animals still looking like sick animals). The adoption rate is excellent, and they have programs set up which regularly bring in groups of animals from overcrowded, underfunded shelters.

I think this is a wonderful system to strive for everywhere -one which is able to rely on public support, provide excellent care, adopt out quickly to good homes, and assist other shelters when demand overwhelms resource. Sure I'm being idealistic, but shooting for the ideal often lands us above where we would be when accepting a merely "adequate" situation.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I understand what many of you are saying about most of this not being too unusual or indicative of neglect, however I would like to point out that there are also shelters in this country (and Canada) which do look clean and safe even from an outsider's perspective. So while it may be impossible to uphold such standards when money and resources are limited, it is not impossible for a facility to give animals care with more dignity than is apparent here.

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about, but I think you're misinterpreting what others are saying. I worked at a very well funded humane society which looks lovely to the public. However, there are several areas of the shelter that is not open to the public, not because they're trying to hide anything, but because that's where they keep the animals that aren't up for adoption yet. If you were to walk through the entire shelter (>400 animals i think at any given time), I'm sure you would be able to take one or two snaps of the same pictures you see in that article. On any given day, there are probably a few animals that need to be euthanized that day for health reasons. That does not mean they were being neglected by the shelter staff. I'm just saying that some angry crazy ex-shelter worker or a worker with a grudge can easily concoct a story to make it seem like animals are being abused when they're really not.

That being said, I'm not sure what's going on in this shelter. It could be a little bit of an exaggeration piled onto issues with idiotic management who are on a "no-kill" mission. It could be a series of snapshots of isolated incidences + sensationalization + exaggeration. It could be that almost ALL the animals look like that at this shelter 24/7, and it really is a nightmare. Even if that's the case, who is to say that the veterinarian is at fault? Those animals need vet care, and that's what the vet's hired for. As others have said, vets don't always have the final say when it comes to euthanasia. I don't know.

P.S. Also, you say that the shelter near you is something to strive towards, and that it's also in a wealthy area... I feel like what you're saying is equivalent to telling a struggling inner city school to aspire towards a super wealthy school district in the suburbs because of the excellent track record that school has in sports, the arts, and academics. It just doesn't work that way...

 

[Danae00]

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[Minnerbelle]

And I certainly hear what you are saying too. And I don't want to give the wrong impression that I don't know what you are talking about.

Nope, I didn't get the wrong impression about what you thought at all. I pretty much agree with everything you've said in your post given that the facts (including the number of incidences and timeline) are indeed true. My response was directed mostly against willowhand, who sounded a bit naive. All I was trying to say was that I highly doubt that ANY animal facility with a decent number of animals looks absolutely picture perfect at any given time (and therefore can be slandered against by some vindictive person).

My current itty bitty no-kill rescue actually does look stunning almost ALL the time with healthy animals, but that's because we only have 15 animals max at a time. Sigh... talking about large open shelters makes me really want to go back!!! As depressing and awful as it can be sometimes, I feel like I'm utilizing my time and efforts most efficiently to save the max number of animals I can. Instead, I spend all of my time now keeping up with the animal care volunteers' schedules, trying to keep the website up to date, making sure that our adoptions volunteers are keeping the facility presentable to the public, etc... all for a grand total of 8 cats! Don't get me wrong. I LOVE THEM TO DEATH! but it's just not the same.

I also don't think ANYONE is blaming a vet for this mess.

Read the first post...

 

[bunnity]

I really like how Minnerbelle is saying it, and I agree that this could go either way. I think the reason that it seems like us shelter people might sound like we aren't acknowledging the fact that it could be the shelter's fault is because the general public is always blaming the shelter first, when it's usually not the shelter's fault. I am totally open to the fact that this shelter may have some very screwed up stuff going on. I am just not convinced either way yet.

Here in Philadelphia the way it usually goes down is:

"Animal Care and Control euthanized 85% of its intake animals this month."
"That's so terrible. How mean and bad and heartless Animal Care and Control is. The people that work there don't care."

instead of the more accurate response of:

"Wow, we citizens of Philadelphia really need to get our act together. Let's make that appointment to get Fluffy neutered and see if we can foster some kittens or make a donation next week. Let's also remember to educate our kids about how animals have feelings and how dog fighting is never OK."

So when the default is to blame the shelter rather than the problem of overpopulation (or the root problem of lack of human responsibility in general), I am naturally suspicious when a shelter is blamed.

 

[Danae00]

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[dee vee emm]

Read the first post...

I wasn't blaming the veterinarian for the situation AT ALL. I just stated that I was surprised a vet got arrested/was involved along with the other people.

I don't see where I wrote "I can't believe the vet let this happen... it's all his fault."

 

[Willowhand]

...If you were to walk through the entire shelter (>400 animals i think at any given time), I'm sure you would be able to take one or two snaps of the same pictures you see in that article. On any given day, there are probably a few animals that need to be euthanized that day for health reasons. That does not mean they were being neglected by the shelter staff. I'm just saying that some angry crazy ex-shelter worker or a worker with a grudge can easily concoct a story to make it seem like animals are being abused when they're really not.

......

P.S. Also, you say that the shelter near you is something to strive towards, and that it's also in a wealthy area... I feel like what you're saying is equivalent to telling a struggling inner city school to aspire towards a super wealthy school district in the suburbs because of the excellent track record that school has in sports, the arts, and academics. It just doesn't work that way...

I agree with what you're saying, and I was trying to acknowledge the reality of scenes which would make ugly photos sometimes being a normal part of shelter life (even if you clean it up 30 seconds later, a cage where an animal has been violently vomiting is still going to look messy for those 30 seconds). That said, the guardians of that animal have a responsibility to clean up as soon as possible -which I don't think anyone here is denying.

As to your P.S., I am sorry that you interpreted my words that way as it wasn't what I was trying to convey. Of course different areas have more or less to contribute to their shelter, and it's not the fault of the less wealthy that they cannot give monetary support. What I meant to put forth as a goal to strive for is the system which this shelter I referred to takes part in -bringing in animals from the less privileged areas so they have better care and a better chance of being adopted. This takes some pressure off those places which are overcrowded with strays and without the means to support them. Goal = collaboration and sharing of resources.

 

[168135]

My current itty bitty no-kill rescue actually does look stunning almost ALL the time with healthy animals, but that's because we only have 15 animals max at a time. Sigh... talking about large open shelters makes me really want to go back!!! As depressing and awful as it can be sometimes, I feel like I'm utilizing my time and efforts most efficiently to save the max number of animals I can. Instead, I spend all of my time now keeping up with the animal care volunteers' schedules, trying to keep the website up to date, making sure that our adoptions volunteers are keeping the facility presentable to the public, etc... all for a grand total of 8 cats! Don't get me wrong. I LOVE THEM TO DEATH! but it's just not the same.

At the no-kill shelter I used to volunteer at, we had over 70 cats once and, once again, it never looked like that! At the shelters I volunteered at, all cages get cleaned and disinfected daily, and there were separate rooms for new arrivals and quarantine. So yes... those dirty cage pictures really bothered me... especially the one with the ducks.

 

[sumstorm]

At the no-kill shelter I used to volunteer at, we had over 70 cats once and, once again, it never looked like that! At the shelters I volunteered at, all cages get cleaned and disinfected daily, and there were separate rooms for new arrivals and quarantine. So yes... those dirty cage pictures really bothered me... especially the one with the ducks.

So, you had the ideal; good for you and the animals you were around. Now, how would that work for you if you were getting 70 cats a week + 80 dogs a week, and you had 20 dog runs, 4 sick runs, and 12 cat cages, none of which were ideal.

Let me give you more details:

The dog runs are indoor outdoor on concrete with a grate in the center of the run on the inside, with ONLY chainlink between runs, chainlink that is rusted and breaking.

The cat cages are wire as well, with only enough room for a small litter box and an L shape space around the box that is less than four inches wide.

There are 4 employees, who spend most of their time out collecting animals. The euthanasia method is group gassing. Owner surrender = immediate euth (no matter how adoptable). Cleaning is done by an inmate. Volunteers are not allowed to clean due to liability concerns.

I don't know of anyone who would think this was a good shelter. I know plenty of people who would be VERY quick to judge and condemn the staff and volunteers at this shelter. And yet, all are doing their very best, with many volunteers putting in 20 hours per week on top of real jobs. The staff is underpaid, undereducated, and overwhelmed. Burn out is the issue of the day; far worse than the destruction of those animals is how quickly this environment crushes the spirit of volunteers and staff. It does weed out those who care.... because we can NEVER get ahead of this.

I promise you, as a volunteer at any shelter anywhere, I could find something within three months to take snap shots of. Maybe it is the cat that just puked, or the dog who rolls in its own waste before anyone can do anything. Maybe it is the cat that just came in and hasn't been evaluated by a vet. I am willing to bet I could do it at MOST vet clinics. That is NOT a criticism of clinics or shelters...it is a reality. If you are looking for the worst for sensationalism, it doesn't take much to find it. I could easily, in a day, go to any vet school and make vet students look bad (sleeping in class, joking around cadavers and skeletons, working on animals with the general lack of skill born of novices.) My point isn't that vet students are bad, but that if we are looking for it, we can find it.

My issue is that I don't know all the details. I know what various individuals are saying. I know I don't trust the media to be more honest and factual than sensational. I know that there are abuses in some shelters, but I also know it is possible to poorly portray hard working individuals in very bad situations. I don't feel that I can cast judgement and condemn this shelter or these individuals without knowing all the facts. I firmly believe in 'innocent till proven guilty' and I don't have the proof. I hope to trust the courts in determining guilt and responsibility, rather than swallowing without question what the media presents. I just don't trust the tail not to wag the dog.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Thanks Sumstorm for drilling in the point...

At the no-kill shelter I used to volunteer at, we had over 70 cats once and, once again, it never looked like that! At the shelters I volunteered at, all cages get cleaned and disinfected daily, and there were separate rooms for new arrivals and quarantine. So yes... those dirty cage pictures really bothered me... especially the one with the ducks.

My 15 shelter is one extreme, but seriously, 70 cats is NOTHING in the shelter world (and no-kill shelters generally don't get the super sick and dying animals). The medium sized shelter I worked at (the very well funded, nice shelter that the community loves) had at least 70-80 in each cat room, and there were 4 big rooms + intake. And yes, ALL cages get cleaned and disinfected daily (new cage linings, new towels, even new litter, and new disposable food bowls). But if you have sick or feral animals (or rambunctious ones), some cages will be super dirty at some point during the day.

And as for the ducklings... have you ever taken care of 10+ ducklings in a confined space? those are the dirtiest little critters in the world. ducklings poop waaaaay more than the average animal I swear. that, and ducklings huddling in the corner is a normal response to a person standing in front of their cage and pointing a camera at them, and it's not a "ew my cage is dirty and we're scared and deprived" message. and it looks very awful that their water bowl has dried out and they don't have any food left. perhaps that was due to neglect, but it could have easily happened on its own within a couple of hours. within 1 min of giving ducklings fresh water, it's disgusting and after they've jumped in it to play the water is gone. unless there's someone cleaning after them every 20 min, that cage is going to look like that. and some wild species of ducklings are very weak creatures and die very easily... i'm surprised there isn't a dead one or two lying in the cage (though i have no idea which species this particular one is). as long as the ducklings are able to grow up healthy and released, i think they're doing their jobs.

whether this shelter was equipped to handle wildlife (or maybe those ducklings are domestic) is another question entirely, and it's one that many people will have polar opinions on. soooo many people get furious that everytime they take wildlife to the shelter, all the shelter does is euthanize them and won't give them a chance. but if a shelter does not have a good wildlife clinic, should they or should they not? especially if there's no other wildlife clinics around...?

one thing that does disturb me about the article is that the media reports indicate that more animals died in their cages than were euthanized. If that's indeed true, that is rather disgusting... but it's a "Globe investigation" so I'm not sure if numbers were twisted

 

[Minnerbelle]

As to your P.S., I am sorry that you interpreted my words that way as it wasn't what I was trying to convey. Of course different areas have more or less to contribute to their shelter, and it's not the fault of the less wealthy that they cannot give monetary support. What I meant to put forth as a goal to strive for is the system which this shelter I referred to takes part in -bringing in animals from the less privileged areas so they have better care and a better chance of being adopted. This takes some pressure off those places which are overcrowded with strays and without the means to support them. Goal = collaboration and sharing of resources.

I think you still may have missed my point though... What I was trying to say was that it's a bit degrading to say that any idealistic no-kill shelter is something that other shelters should aspire to. Why is it degrading? well, because when you put it that way, it sounds like you're inferring that these other shelters care less. You don't need to tell anyone working in the shelter world that they should aspire to a no-kill shelter that helps out other more unfortunate shelters. That's something that ANY shelter worker dreams of EVERY DAMN DAY that they're euthanizing surplus animals. I don't think there's a single shelter out there that's capable of taking in transfer animals that doesn't. Actually, it's a big enough aspiration for most OPEN shelters to become no-kill (as in there's no need to unnecessarily kill any animals in the entire community).

I hear people in the little no-kill rescue I run badmouth the mspca for the number of animals they euthanize, and that pisses me off more than anything else in the world. Our shelter rescues less animals in a YEAR than the mspca euthanizes during their worst WEEK... Our shelter does even take in some animals from the mspca and animal control when we have room, but that doesn't mean at all that we are at all better than them. So I'm totally with you 100% that cooperation between rescue groups is very crucial... but it just irks me when I hear that one shelter is better than another, or that one shelter should be put up on a pedastal.

(that aside though, i do believe there are shelters with bad management/ animal rights idiots who don't understand the concept of "what goes in must come out". but for the most part, i believe almost all shelters are doing everything they can to do the best for the animals)

 

[Willowhand]

Yeah, the internet is a really bad medium for discussing things we care about. I'm sorry if I have offended you, Minnerbelle (or anyone else) as that was not at all my intention.

But I have to say, I still don't think what we're saying is contradictory. You seem to be interpreting it as my saying that shelter workers are somehow doing something wrong. Not at all the case. I think the work done at large shelters where employees are put in the position of euthanizing healthy animals is probably much more demanding, and I admire them deeply for what they do.

I'm not trying to put no-kill shelters on a pedestal, but as you mentioned I am sure many shelter workers wishes that all the animals could be kept and adopted to good homes. With many people of our own species still homeless and trying to feed their own children (even in wealthier countries like the US and Canada!), I don't think that wish is going to become a reality anytime soon. However, I think it is the responsibility of human communities who have time and money to spare to share this surplus with living beings who have nothing. I think that we as a national and international community can do better, and the first part of solving a problem like this is letting people know it exists.

So yes, I think that no-kill shelters are the ideal, and that raising public awareness and networking between shelters might save the lives of more animals. I am not saying that large, overwhelmed shelters contribute any less to the welfare of animals -far, far from it. With the current system, they are absolutely necessary and they do a wonderful amount of good. I am just daydreaming about a society where they are not necessary 🙂

 

[DVMDream]

So, you had the ideal; good for you and the animals you were around. Now, how would that work for you if you were getting 70 cats a week + 80 dogs a week, and you had 20 dog runs, 4 sick runs, and 12 cat cages, none of which were ideal.

Let me give you more details:

The dog runs are indoor outdoor on concrete with a grate in the center of the run on the inside, with ONLY chainlink between runs, chainlink that is rusted and breaking.

The cat cages are wire as well, with only enough room for a small litter box and an L shape space around the box that is less than four inches wide.

There are 4 employees, who spend most of their time out collecting animals. The euthanasia method is group gassing. Owner surrender = immediate euth (no matter how adoptable). Cleaning is done by an inmate. Volunteers are not allowed to clean due to liability concerns.

I don't know of anyone who would think this was a good shelter. I know plenty of people who would be VERY quick to judge and condemn the staff and volunteers at this shelter. And yet, all are doing their very best, with many volunteers putting in 20 hours per week on top of real jobs. The staff is underpaid, undereducated, and overwhelmed. Burn out is the issue of the day; far worse than the destruction of those animals is how quickly this environment crushes the spirit of volunteers and staff. It does weed out those who care.... because we can NEVER get ahead of this.

I promise you, as a volunteer at any shelter anywhere, I could find something within three months to take snap shots of. Maybe it is the cat that just puked, or the dog who rolls in its own waste before anyone can do anything. Maybe it is the cat that just came in and hasn't been evaluated by a vet. I am willing to bet I could do it at MOST vet clinics. That is NOT a criticism of clinics or shelters...it is a reality. If you are looking for the worst for sensationalism, it doesn't take much to find it. I could easily, in a day, go to any vet school and make vet students look bad (sleeping in class, joking around cadavers and skeletons, working on animals with the general lack of skill born of novices.) My point isn't that vet students are bad, but that if we are looking for it, we can find it.

My issue is that I don't know all the details. I know what various individuals are saying. I know I don't trust the media to be more honest and factual than sensational. I know that there are abuses in some shelters, but I also know it is possible to poorly portray hard working individuals in very bad situations. I don't feel that I can cast judgement and condemn this shelter or these individuals without knowing all the facts. I firmly believe in 'innocent till proven guilty' and I don't have the proof. I hope to trust the courts in determining guilt and responsibility, rather than swallowing without question what the media presents. I just don't trust the tail not to wag the dog.

+1 👍

As far as the vet clinics, I have worked in vet clinics over the past 4 and 1/2 years and I can guarantee you can find the same things. Especially in clinics that have boarding facilities. If we have a parvo puppy in the back isolation that just spewed diarrhea all over its cage it could be a good 5-10 minutes before we can get to clean it up. Kittens are terrible too, they attempt to go in the litterbox, but it never works and ends up all over the walls, ceiling of the cage, the kitten, and the food and water bowls
(oh and since the kitten started playing, the water bowl is empty because the kitten knocked all of the water out of the bowl.) And while it would be ideal to have it cleaned up instantly, it is not always possible. Especially, if you have 10 clients, surgery, an emergency, 2 vets, 1 receptionist and 4 techs. It will just have to wait a while. In clinics with boarding facilities, the dogs and cats both get stressed because they are in an unfamiliar place. The stress causes diarrhea. Those kennels can get messy quickly. While it would be nice to have someone sitting back there waiting for a dog to make a mess so they can instantly clean it up, it is not probable. So the dog/cat may sit there for 20 minutes until someone can get to cleaning it up. We one time had a dog that after waking up from a dental, was sneezing blood EVERYWHERE. That cage looked like someone had been murdered. The blood was all over, including on the floor outside of the cage. I cleaned it up a few times, but wherever I moved the dog, there would be more to clean up, so we finally just left him until he finished sneezing the blood. Eventually, he stopped sneezing the blood and I was able to get it completely clean. So, if you gave me a camera and 3 months I could walk into any vet clinic and get some of the same pictures. The animals aren't being neglected they just get messy quickly and there is not always enough staff to instantly clean it up.

 

[168135]

I guess I lucked out at the fact that I've never been in a shelter that looked like that.

I haven't been there, so I'm not really entitled to make comments. I'm really curious to see how it turns out and if these accusations are really legit. What bothers me is that they are people saying that nothing is wrong and people saying that everything is wrong.

Sucks that not all shelters can run as smoothly as the two I've been at, where those employeed make just enough so that they stay and where the youth are pretty eager to volunteer and take on all of the cleaning responsibilities... if you took away those, those shelters would be a mess right now 😛