How did Jet do at the WSOP?

[excalibur]

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Talk to us, Jet.

 

[OB1🤙]

Yeah man, inquiring Tulanian donks wanna know.

 

[LostTommyGuns]

I'm a few days late but I wanna know too. Give us the low down Jet. 😀

 

[jetproppilot]

Talk to us, Jet.

I went out early. A little over an hour into the tournament. 😱

Man, what a bustling place the Rio is during the WSOP finale-final-six weeks! That room you see on TV where all the tournaments are played is surreal...and all the big guns are there....I saw Ferguson, Fossilman, Helmuth, and several other dudes I've seen on TV but dont know their names.

The dude to my left was a pro...dont know his name but have seen him before...didnt realize it until several photographers kept stopping, zooming their cameras our way, and I know they werent taking pictures of me!

For the first hour I was feeling pretty good. Playing tight, raised a cuppla times pre-flop with pocket pairs and everybody folded. So I had won a cuppla small pots.

AND THEN THE HAND CAME.

I'm in the big blind. Blinds still 25-50.

I get pocket kings.

Several calls...I'm the last to bet pre-flop, so I make the standard three-times-the-big-blind raise.

Four people call.

The flop is King (club), Eight (heart), Four (club). 😱

"HOLY SHEEAT," I think to myself. "I'M AT THE WSOP AND I JUST FLOPPED TOP SET!!!"

So I'm first to bet. Being that I've flopped DA MONSTER, I check. I smell blood in the water.

The first three left check as well. Button dude bets $400....a big bet.

MAN....THIS IS WHAT I WANTED!!!!

I check-raise him to $1200.

First three fold.

Button dude is agonized. He sits there forever. Because of the time he's taking, I'm thinking he's got a set too....but I got the big set so I'm reveling in my curent position.

After about three minutes, which seemed like hours, Button Dude pushes all his chips in, saying "I'M ALL IN."

"I CALL," I respond in a nanosecond.

I turn over my pocket kings.

"WHOA", the whole table collectively murmurs, staring at my set of kings.

Button dude agonizes as he turns over his Ace-rag of clubs.

I stare at his cards.

HUH? I think to myself.....DUDE PUSHES ALL HIS CHIPS IN THE MIDDLE, ONE HOUR INTO THE TOURNAMENT, WHEN HE IS CHECKRAISED, ON A FLUSH DRAW????

As I collect what just happened, I think to myself how great it is that I'm about to double up....

The turn card seems like slow motion....I can still see the lady dealer turning it....

QUEEN OF CLUBS.....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Ther ya have it. Jet knocked outta the WSOP with a set of kings by a dude that risked his tournament life on a one-in-five-chance that he'll see another club to finish his flush.

And he got it.

Ya know, poker is all about what I think that youre thinking that I'm thinking that you've got....follow that?....watch someone like Alex Jacob play and you'll soon see what I mean.

Only thing I can figure is Button Dude put me on a bluff....and when I checked the flop, maybe he figured he could steal the pot from the button with a big bet....and when I checked-raised him, maybe he thought I'd fold if he went all in. Maybe he put me on a flush draw too...which he would win since he had the nut-flush-draw.

Pure speculation on my part.

Didnt AT ALL put him on a flush draw....and even if I did I wouldda played it the same way....I had an 80% chance of winning that hand after the flop. I lost.

Ya cant beat luck. And Button Dude got lucky.

Oh well.

Stayed for a cuppla more days. Had a blast. Played no-limit at Treasure Island Sunday night...left at 6am, a cuppla large lost. Wasnt my night at Treasure Island either. Shouldda seen the writing on the wall after my bad beat in the tourney, I guess!

I'll be back next year.

Whatcha guys think? Would you have played it different?

 

[excalibur]

Nope. Wouldn't have played it any different. I might have only raised a little more pre-flop, b/c if you're last to act in big blind, my thought process is the standard 3 times the big blind raise is less effective, b/c there's already more money in the pot due to the three callers. So I tend to raise a little more in that situation to limit my opponents on the flop, plus they will have position on me when the flop hits, so if I have KK in the BB I like to make it a little more expensive than 3x to play.... That said....

what else can you do on the flop??? If button dude calls your raise on the flop, and the third club hits the board on the turn, you might be able to put the breaks on, but the dude did exactly what you wanted, and as you said, he hit his one in five shot.

Tough break, Jet.

Back to the tables at Harrahs? I miss my NL tables at Harrah's, spending the day, and night, with Bruin and TommyGuns scouting out the absolute donkeys who play that game, and the shear giddyness we'd get when "Big Boy" would come to sit our table. Bruin knows who I'm talking about. Oh well, guess I can only go back on vacation. No casinos here in Arkansas. Closest thing is Memphis which is two hours away. Guess I'll need a good weekend off to make it worth the trip.

 

[excalibur]

Jet, did you just play in the main event? or did you try some of the earlier events?

 

[jetproppilot]

Jet, did you just play in the main event? or did you try some of the earlier events?

No. I played in Event 38....$1500 no limit with no rebuys.

1st place payed SIX HUNDRED SEVENTY THREE LARGE. 😱

Interesting the main event that Jerry Yang won paid a little over eight mil....down from Jamie Gold's twelve mil from last year.

The poker popularity is bound to come down.

 

[jetproppilot]

Back to the tables at Harrahs? I miss my NL tables at Harrah's, spending the day, and night, with Bruin and TommyGuns scouting out the absolute donkeys who play that game, and the shear giddyness we'd get when "Big Boy" would come to sit our table. Bruin knows who I'm talking about. Oh well, guess I can only go back on vacation. No casinos here in Arkansas. Closest thing is Memphis which is two hours away. Guess I'll need a good weekend off to make it worth the trip.

Havent been back to Harrahs since Vegas...been too busy with the little kidlets, and the free time I've had I've spent fishing.

But I'll be in there soon, no doubt.

Do you remember a big black dude they called Tiny at Harrahs? Big, Big dude...pretty good player, but overly aggressive...I like to see him at my table...I've got him worked up more than once after draining his chips...is that the same dude you're referring to as Big Boy?

 

[LostTommyGuns]

I agree with excalibur - I think that you played it perfectly reasonably. I think you could make an argument for calling his raise instead of check-raising him if you thought he had top set. It depends on how aggressive he was playing... You run the risk of giving him a cheap card if (like he did) have a flush draw but if you thought he had middle trips it might bolster his confidence and draw him into a big bet that he'll pay for later.

That said I would likely have played it the same way 😎

The luck sack strikes again 😡

 

[OB1🤙]

You put yourself in an ideal position- all your monies in the middle as a huge favorite. Not much else you can do. And if he's willing to, you definitely want it all in on the flop- if he has a flush draw obviously you want him to pay to play, but even if he has an underset, he'll slow down if the flush card hits, and you won't get max extraction. Either way you did what you could. That's the game, especially in a tournament.

Tiny cracks me up too- against thinking competition he's way way way too aggressive, but the play at that Harrah's is so weak/passive/braindead that his steamroller style works and works well. He's fun to have at a table.

He's not Big Boy though. Big Boy is the sleazebucket disbarred lawyer guy named David (I think it might be David L). We as a collective Tulane group hate that guy, and torment him relentlessly if he's sitting with us. The bastard won a nice pot off of me that I'll never forgive him for (even though I grossly misplayed the hand, Excalibur remembers the carnage), and one of my missions in life is to slowly get it back from him every time I visit New Orleans.

Ahhh Harrah's. I miss that place.

 

[proclivity]

rough way to go out....sorry to hear it and glad it wasn t me.

 

[excalibur]

You put yourself in an ideal position- all your monies in the middle as a huge favorite. Not much else you can do. And if he's willing to, you definitely want it all in on the flop- if he has a flush draw obviously you want him to pay to play, but even if he has an underset, he'll slow down if the flush card hits, and you won't get max extraction. Either way you did what you could. That's the game, especially in a tournament.

Tiny cracks me up too- against thinking competition he's way way way too aggressive, but the play at that Harrah's is so weak/passive/braindead that his steamroller style works and works well. He's fun to have at a table.

He's not Big Boy though. Big Boy is the sleazebucket disbarred lawyer guy named David (I think it might be David L). We as a collective Tulane group hate that guy, and torment him relentlessly if he's sitting with us. The bastard won a nice pot off of me that I'll never forgive him for (even though I grossly misplayed the hand, Excalibur remembers the carnage), and one of my missions in life is to slowly get it back from him every time I visit New Orleans.

Ahhh Harrah's. I miss that place.

I was going to mention that hand he won off of you in my previous post, but thought that would have been to mean. 2 weeks later you came up to me still talking about it, I see it still messes with you.

 

[me454555]

I guess I'll be the lone dissenter in the crowd, I really didn't like the way you played the hand at all

Preflop: Several limpers to you in the bb, I'm gonna guess that means there were ~5 bbs (2-4 limpers, the sb, and you) in the pot before you raised. I woulda raised at least 5xbb and prolly more like 8 or 9x. KK plays very well HU, not so much multiway. By making a small pf raise you're pricing in the limpers to see a flop cheaply and try to make a hand that will bust you. They are getting such good odds that there's almost no reason to fold. Also by raising bigger preflop you create a larger pot and a better one to convince weaker hands to go all in with allowing you to double up instead of winning a small pot.

Flop: I'm not a huge fan of slowplaying on this board. The boards got a flush draw out there and I definatly don't want to risk it getting checked around. If it does get checked around and the turn is a 3rd club then how do you play it? You'll be hating your hand b/c its too good to fold but not really good enough to be comfortable going all in b/c you may be drawing to 10 outs. A really tough spot to be in. Another reason the flop getting checked around sucks is that if it does, the pot is still very small and now you only have 2 streets instead of 3 to extract money outta the other players. It will be tougher to double up with a smaller pot b/c others may not be willing to risk their stack w/a marginal holding.

As it turns out all this analysis matters not b/c you got to go all in with the best hand. Nothing more you can ask for b/c thats poker. FWIW, he had ~2:1 shot to hit his flush and slightly less than 30% equity to win the pot b/c he had 2 draws at his flush not one. One in five would have been correct if he had only the river to save him.

 

[LostTommyGuns]

Preflop: Several limpers to you in the bb, I'm gonna guess that means there were ~5 bbs (2-4 limpers, the sb, and you) in the pot before you raised. I woulda raised at least 5xbb and prolly more like 8 or 9x. KK plays very well HU, not so much multiway. By making a small pf raise you're pricing in the limpers to see a flop cheaply and try to make a hand that will bust you. They are getting such good odds that there's almost no reason to fold. Also by raising bigger preflop you create a larger pot and a better one to convince weaker hands to go all in with allowing you to double up instead of winning a small pot.

If someone raised big in early position (8-9x) particularly if they weren't playing many hands, what does that play suggest but AA, AKs, KK or maybe a balls to the wall play with some other half way decent hand or perhaps a bluff. You knock out anyone that might be gambling on an okay hand that will call a 3x raise and you tell people you've got nothing or everything. You're right that KK doesn't play well great in a multi-way pot and that is definitely an argument for your side but it is a good hand and to demonstrate that with a huge raise is a move I disagree with. Particularly when you get lucky and hit top trips.

Flop: I'm not a huge fan of slowplaying on this board. The boards got a flush draw out there and I definatly don't want to risk it getting checked around.

I think you have a point here - it depends on what you put your opponents on. If you believe they have a flush draw then you make them pay. If you believe they have top pair, mid or low trips, or two pair it's reasonable to let them bet into you and suck them dry. This is where I love poker because it requires critical decisions with imperfect information - not dissimilar from medicine.

If you can put him all in with a 9/48 + 9/47 chance in a situation where it significantly benefits you to double up you would be a fool not to.

 

[me454555]

If someone raised big in early position (8-9x) particularly if they weren't playing many hands, what does that play suggest but AA, AKs, KK or maybe a balls to the wall play with some other half way decent hand or perhaps a bluff. You knock out anyone that might be gambling on an okay hand that will call a 3x raise and you tell people you've got nothing or everything. You're right that KK doesn't play well great in a multi-way pot and that is definitely an argument for your side but it is a good hand and to demonstrate that with a huge raise is a move I disagree with. Particularly when you get lucky and hit top trips.

Hitting trips is irrelevent to the preflop discussion b/c you did not know this at the time. In my last post I forgot to mention that I would raise 8-9x the bb w/any hand I'd raise with out of the bb. I'd do it b/c 1) It would disguise my hand and 2) B/c it would allow me to win the blind money more often than not or get it HU. Don't forget that when I make it 8xbb, each player is getting 13:7 or ~2:1 to call, still good enough odds to gamble, just better odds for me to convince them to committ more $$ when behind on the flop.

I think you have a point here - it depends on what you put your opponents on. If you believe they have a flush draw then you make them pay. If you believe they have top pair, mid or low trips, or two pair it's reasonable to let them bet into you and suck them dry. This is where I love poker because it requires critical decisions with imperfect information - not dissimilar from medicine.

In the hand above, what type of hand would give you a ton of action if the next card hits them but clam up if you bet out the flop?

Flush is the obvious one, and this would be bad b/c we don't beat a flush.

2 pair is another hand that might give us action. The problem with this is that given the ragedy nature of the board K94, its less likely that one of our opponents limped with a hand that contains a 9 or 4 unless they have exactly 98, T9, J9, or 97. On top of that, if the next card is a J or T you have to get worried about someone hitting a strait w/JQ, QT, or JT.

A PP hitting a set on the turn is another possibility but again, its a 22:1 shot so it's not worth that much. There's only 1 more K in the deck so its very unlikely someones got top pair.

Mid or bottom set is going to call or raise your flop bet anyway so the only time you really gain anything from checking is when your opponent has a hand like 55, which they would have folded on the flop but hit a set on the turn and stacks off to you.

Given the risks and benefits, I stand by my play of betting out the flop.

 

[jetproppilot]

I guess I'll be the lone dissenter in the crowd, I really didn't like the way you played the hand at all

Preflop: Several limpers to you in the bb, I'm gonna guess that means there were ~5 bbs (2-4 limpers, the sb, and you) in the pot before you raised. I woulda raised at least 5xbb and prolly more like 8 or 9x. KK plays very well HU, not so much multiway. By making a small pf raise you're pricing in the limpers to see a flop cheaply and try to make a hand that will bust you. They are getting such good odds that there's almost no reason to fold. Also by raising bigger preflop you create a larger pot and a better one to convince weaker hands to go all in with allowing you to double up instead of winning a small pot.

Flop: I'm not a huge fan of slowplaying on this board. The boards got a flush draw out there and I definatly don't want to risk it getting checked around. If it does get checked around and the turn is a 3rd club then how do you play it? You'll be hating your hand b/c its too good to fold but not really good enough to be comfortable going all in b/c you may be drawing to 10 outs. A really tough spot to be in. Another reason the flop getting checked around sucks is that if it does, the pot is still very small and now you only have 2 streets instead of 3 to extract money outta the other players. It will be tougher to double up with a smaller pot b/c others may not be willing to risk their stack w/a marginal holding.

As it turns out all this analysis matters not b/c you got to go all in with the best hand. Nothing more you can ask for b/c thats poker. FWIW, he had ~2:1 shot to hit his flush and slightly less than 30% equity to win the pot b/c he had 2 draws at his flush not one. One in five would have been correct if he had only the river to save him.

Well taken. Thanks for your opinion.

Your odds are incorrect though.

He had a 25% chance before the turn card came. If unsuccessful, he had a 15% chance to hit the river.

Pre-turn I had a 75% (and change) chance of winning the hand.

 

[me454555]

Well taken. Thanks for your opinion.

Your odds are incorrect though.

He had a 25% chance before the turn card came. If unsuccessful, he had a 15% chance to hit the river.

Pre-turn I had a 75% (and change) chance of winning the hand.

You are correct. I was just pointing out his odds of hitting a flush and didn't factor in your redraw. He will hit the flush ~36% of the time by the river however you will boat up 11% of the time he does so your equity is effectivly 75%. Sorry to hear about your bad beat

 

[jetproppilot]

Hitting trips is irrelevent to the preflop discussion b/c you did not know this at the time. In my last post I forgot to mention that I would raise 8-9x the bb w/any hand I'd raise with out of the bb. I'd do it b/c 1) It would disguise my hand and 2) B/c it would allow me to win the blind money more often than not or get it HU. Don't forget that when I make it 8xbb, each player is getting 13:7 or ~2:1 to call, still good enough odds to gamble, just better odds for me to convince them to committ more $$ when behind on the flop.




In the hand above, what type of hand would give you a ton of action if the next card hits them but clam up if you bet out the flop?

Flush is the obvious one, and this would be bad b/c we don't beat a flush.

2 pair is another hand that might give us action. The problem with this is that given the ragedy nature of the board K94, its less likely that one of our opponents limped with a hand that contains a 9 or 4 unless they have exactly 98, T9, J9, or 97. On top of that, if the next card is a J or T you have to get worried about someone hitting a strait w/JQ, QT, or JT.

A PP hitting a set on the turn is another possibility but again, its a 22:1 shot so it's not worth that much. There's only 1 more K in the deck so its very unlikely someones got top pair.

Mid or bottom set is going to call or raise your flop bet anyway so the only time you really gain anything from checking is when your opponent has a hand like 55, which they would have folded on the flop but hit a set on the turn and stacks off to you.

Given the risks and benefits, I stand by my play of betting out the flop.

Lemme give you another scenerio.

I made the final 2 tables of a $1500 no-limit event when the WSOP came to New Orleans. Play was cut off the previous night (around 1:30 am) when the field was cut to the final 18 players. We came back the next day at 2pm.

I take my seat up on stage, take my chips outta the plastic bag, etc etc.

I'm the short stack of the 18 players. $28,500 left. Average was around $130,000. I think the blinds were at 1500-3000 to start.

FIRST HAND.....I'm big blind....Ace/ten of hearts.

Again, last to bet preflop...I go all in....one caller who has pocket kings.

Flop is Jack heart/Queen heart/nine (black...cant remember suit)....😱

I had more outs than Wilt Chamberlain had women....straight draw, flush draw, royal flush draw, any ace, another king, etc....

and I came up dry.

ONE HAND up on da stage with lights and cameras....😡

Would you have gone all in pre flop?

In this scenerio its immaterial because after seeing that flop I wouldda mortgaged my house....

But whatcha guys think? Considering my chip count, would you push all in pre flop?

BTW, I remember distinctly playing at a table with a dude who was a 3rd year med student a cuppla years ago...one of the tables in the back, far right, next to the wall....slender,small-to-medium build, brown hair (or light hair?)...I remember because, well, I AM Jet The FBI PROFILER 🙂laugh🙂 and more importantly I remember thinking how cool it was for a med student to be supplementing their income via poker.....

Which one of you studs could that have been?

 

[OB1🤙]

JPP-

What was the action to you on this hand? Was it raised, how many callers, etc? If raised, what kind of stack did the raiser have? If a big stack, what was his style? If limped, how many limpers?

There are two obvious results when you move all in here- everyone folds and you win the pot, or you get called. With A10, when you're called, you're usually behind, often way behind. Best case is someone calls with something like a lower suited ace or something like J10s. So you have to decide given the action to you how often you'll get called, and if there's anyone in particular you think is more than likely coming along, what kind of range he could have, and if the pot odds are worth it given that range.

If there were a few limpers to you, you're going to take down the pot more often than not with this move. If it was raised and called before it gets to you, when you move in, especially against people with much bigger stacks than yours, you stand to get called more often than not, by hands that you're often going to be behind.

So again, it depends. If it's limped multiway to you, I like the all-in here. If it's raised and called before it gets to you, I think you have enough money left relative to the blinds to wait for a slightly better situation. Exception would be if any raiser has been aggressively picking up pots by raising in position, and you think the action to you represents a steal raise. In that case, the all in move is a good call.

I would never be described as "slender," so that wasn't me you played with, and you described hair, so it definitely wasn't Excalibur. TommyGuns is a definite candidate. Then again, every class had a group of 8-10 people who liked to play cards, so who knows if it was one of us or another class. Was this pre or post Katrina?

 

[me454555]

Wasnt' me either, I'm a cash game player mostly and only play tourney's for fun. You def need to give some more info on the hand you described. Were there any ante's or just blinds? How many limpers there were is key here. If there were 5 limpers and lets say $500 antes, then the pots got $24,500 so going all in is great here. You're getting at least 2:1 on your money if called and you have a real chance to double up. If there's no antes and 1 or 2 limpers then I'm less of a fan of pushing b/c the risk:reward ratio is all skewed. I'd rather check there hope to flop big and double up off someone when I've got a huge draw or made hand.

 

[excalibur]

I would never be described as "slender," so that wasn't me you played with, and you described hair, so it definitely wasn't Excalibur. TommyGuns is a definite candidate. Then again, every class had a group of 8-10 people who liked to play cards, so who knows if it was one of us or another class. Was this pre or post Katrina?

It was me. I never told you this before Bruin, but since I clean up so much down there, I've had to go incognito a few times to act if I were a fresh face. That was probably my "soul glo" wig...it's my favorite.

 

[OB1🤙]

 

[jetproppilot]

Wasnt' me either, I'm a cash game player mostly and only play tourney's for fun. You def need to give some more info on the hand you described. Were there any ante's or just blinds? How many limpers there were is key here. If there were 5 limpers and lets say $500 antes, then the pots got $24,500 so going all in is great here. You're getting at least 2:1 on your money if called and you have a real chance to double up. If there's no antes and 1 or 2 limpers then I'm less of a fan of pushing b/c the risk:reward ratio is all skewed. I'd rather check there hope to flop big and double up off someone when I've got a huge draw or made hand.

Concerning the tourney, blinds 1500/3000. A few limpers. The dude who had pocket kings limped in....then was the only one to call my all in. I guess with it being the first hand he was playing ultra tight. He ended up winning as I described. I had 28,500 left. I can assure you though I wouldve gone all in post-flop anyway.

Concerning the unknown med student, it was a cash game...no limit table....cant remember if it was a 1-2 or a 2-5 no limit table.

 

[Coastie]

I'm pretty sure I know who that is. Now a gas resident, took a year off secondary to poker. 👍

Concerning the tourney, blinds 1500/3000. A few limpers. The dude who had pocket kings limped in....then was the only one to call my all in. I guess with it being the first hand he was playing ultra tight. He ended up winning as I described. I had 28,500 left. I can assure you though I wouldve gone all in post-flop anyway.

Concerning the unknown med student, it was a cash game...no limit table....cant remember if it was a 1-2 or a 2-5 no limit table.