How did you get published in undergrad?

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cryhavoc

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I have been working in a lab for a year. I have all that experience but I'm not sure how to get funded/published. I apply for all my school's grants for funding, but never get them. And my lab works with animals so it is sort of expensive, so I need funding.

Any tips to get my name on something? Just go up to my boss and be frank, ask if I can work hard on something other than just running the experiments? Keep coming up with ideas and running it by her until she goes with one?

I just don't know what I'm doing. I'm taking a gap year and I'd love to be able to send an update saying I published something.
 
Getting published = making a significant contribution to a discovery worthy of publishing. You can't necessarily control whether or not that occurs while you are working in the lab; sometimes you just happen to be "in the right lab at the right time" so to speak.
 
+1. I have known people get published with a single summer of research because they happened to jump on board with a new project that quickly produced important data, and I have also known people who spent a year or more doing research and put together a couple posters or a thesis but nothing journal worthy. I think that being able to intelligently talk about the work you did matters a lot more than whether it produced publishable results
 
I have been working in a lab for a year. I have all that experience but I'm not sure how to get funded/published. I apply for all my school's grants for funding, but never get them. And my lab works with animals so it is sort of expensive, so I need funding.

Any tips to get my name on something? Just go up to my boss and be frank, ask if I can work hard on something other than just running the experiments? Keep coming up with ideas and running it by her until she goes with one?

I just don't know what I'm doing. I'm taking a gap year and I'd love to be able to send an update saying I published something.

I think funding comes with having some data to back up why you need the grant money, so unless you have already started working on projects or your PI can write up the grant proposal with previous work for you then it might be very tough to win that funding.

I think it's always good to come to agreement with your research mentors that you can handle a project by yourself first . If you take some initiative to study the current field your lab is in then perhaps you can propose something to her. That may be the spark she needs to feel confident that you are thinking about the theory behind the research and are at leased beginning to become versed in experimental design.

If you are eyeing a publication within the gap year then you want your proposal to connect with a project that is closest to submission and ask the post-doc working on the paper. Just a fair warning however: just because you complete the data, write up the results and attach it to the article for submission, it will not be considered a publication unless it survives committee review and is accepted for publication which may take a bit of time if it keeps getting sent back for changes and/or additions. Also sometimes your PI is just never happy with the article and never submits it...which is what happened in my case (I'm not bitter I swear).
 
I have been working in a lab for a year. I have all that experience but I'm not sure how to get funded/published. I apply for all my school's grants for funding, but never get them. And my lab works with animals so it is sort of expensive, so I need funding.

Any tips to get my name on something? Just go up to my boss and be frank, ask if I can work hard on something other than just running the experiments? Keep coming up with ideas and running it by her until she goes with one?

I just don't know what I'm doing. I'm taking a gap year and I'd love to be able to send an update saying I published something.
What type of funding are you talking about? Why do you need funding? Usually the PI gets the grants, which pay for all the expenses of research, and (sometimes) provides stipends for lab techs.
If you're still in school, you work in the lab as a volunteer, for the experience and (sometimes) dem pubs.
 
I think funding comes with having some data to back up why you need the grant money, so unless you have already started working on projects or your PI can write up the grant proposal with previous work for you then it might be very tough to win that funding.

I think it's always good to come to agreement with your research mentors that you can handle a project by yourself first . If you take some initiative to study the current field your lab is in then perhaps you can propose something to her. That may be the spark she needs to feel confident that you are thinking about the theory behind the research and are at leased beginning to become versed in experimental design.

If you are eyeing a publication within the gap year then you want your proposal to connect with a project that is closest to submission and ask the post-doc working on the paper. Just a fair warning however: just because you complete the data, write up the results and attach it to the article for submission, it will not be considered a publication unless it survives committee review and is accepted for publication which may take a bit of time if it keeps getting sent back for changes and/or additions. Also sometimes your PI is just never happy with the article and never submits it...which is what happened in my case (I'm not bitter I swear).
Just high standards?
 
Just high standards?

I was assuming funding meaning research fellowship gratin awards given to undergraduate students. Yes the PI will have the main source of income but there are labs who are at the end of their grant date and have run out of money and sometimes ask undergrad students who are really wanting to be involved to win smaller student research grants to fund say a summer project they want to do.
 
Depends on what authorship you want. I just happened to notice a slight data deviation (from what was expected) in one of my experiments that suggested something interesting might be happening. I didn't tell my PI and investigated that avenue and it turned into a full blown project, which I was 1st author on. The project also got an R01 funded for it recently and I hope to have one more pub out before I graduate. It was pretty lucky the way it turned out but I was observant and took a bit of initiative that turned out to be a big thing.
 
Depends on what authorship you want. I just happened to notice a slight data deviation (from what was expected) in one of my experiments that suggested something interesting might be happening. I didn't tell my PI and investigated that avenue and it turned into a full blown project, which I was 1st author on. The project also got an R01 funded for it recently and I hope to have one more pub out before I graduate. It was pretty lucky the way it turned out but I was observant and took a bit of initiative that turned out to be a big thing.

That's amazing, congrats on the successful turn out of your work!
 
A lot of this depends on your PI and the lab you're in, and can be tough to control once you've been there a while.

If you are just starting to look around for a lab, there are s few ways you can maximize your chances for publishing. 1) Look at how productive the lab is, and whether they are including undergraduates as authors. 2) If 2 labs are equally productive, the one with fewer grad students/post-docs may lead to an independent project for you faster. 3) Do research in something that goes fast. Basic science cell biology/genetics stuff is notoriously slow.

Having a publication or two as an undergrad is pretty significant in terms of a medical school application. It's certainly not mandatory, but will impress some people.
 
Yes it depends on your PI and the status of the project but you can definitely do a few things to help yourself out here. For example, can you talk to your PI and see if he/she knows anyone working on a project with the potential to publish something soon? Would you be able to assist? If you're in the middle of a long term project start thinking about a poster presenting some preliminary findings (not as impressive as a paper but still a bit of a feather in your cap if you end up 1st author on it). The best advice is to be really proactive and hopefully it will pay off. I've also found that sometimes working with a post-doc gives you better chances of getting cred because they're fairly young and more likely to help you out (that's how I got my first pub). Good luck!
 
Depends on what authorship you want. I just happened to notice a slight data deviation (from what was expected) in one of my experiments that suggested something interesting might be happening. I didn't tell my PI and investigated that avenue and it turned into a full blown project, which I was 1st author on. The project also got an R01 funded for it recently and I hope to have one more pub out before I graduate. It was pretty lucky the way it turned out but I was observant and took a bit of initiative that turned out to be a big thing.
I don't know if I would recommend this as a general rule, but glad it worked out!
 
I was assuming funding meaning research fellowship gratin awards given to undergraduate students. Yes the PI will have the main source of income but there are labs who are at the end of their grant date and have run out of money and sometimes ask undergrad students who are really wanting to be involved to win smaller student research grants to fund say a summer project they want to do.
I didn't know that those existed. Cool!
 
As others have said before: this is hugely timing, lab, project, and journal dependent. Really, your best bet is to put forth the effort... and a lot of luck. I don't have as much experience as many others on this forum, but I'll just share my observations. ~the following is anecdotal evidence only~

1. Timing: coming on at the right time is key. If you can come onto the end of a project, analyze the data, and crank out some figures, you ought to be golden. However, more often than not, undergrads will be placed on new projects where they can prove their worth... hence more data collection and less figure generating. While landing such a project can be sheer luck, I found that the projects set aside for summer fellowship students (think SURF, Amgen, etc.) are typically more "mature" projects, so you may be able to tackle a substantial chunk of a project that will eventually make its way to publication. The PIs at my summer program loved to make their summer students look really good for the end-of-program poster competition, so they didn't stick people onto dead-end projects. 😉 They'll also be paying you at these programs, so they'll want to get some worthwhile research out.

2. Lab: you're going to start off at the bottom, but will you be given the chance to work your way up? There was one lab at my undergrad that was infamous for letting everyone on and would have an assembly line of 50+ undergrads pumping out data... so the prospect of an authorship created fierce competition (and lots of pettiness). In the end, some people were tacked onto papers pretty much arbitrarily. They'd usually end up with something like 20th author, by the time the 12 different masters students were factored in, and would never actually touch the manuscript. On the other hand, my lab was small and I was the only undergrad (not even any grad students either!), so I got an unparalleled level of mentorship. My superiors also really wanted me to learn more, become fully independent, and publish before matriculating to med school. Honestly, my mentors taught me more than my 4 years of undergrad coursework did. I credit my MCAT BS score entirely to all the literature review and experimental design they helped me with.

Regarding lab drama: I feel horrible for the students who put out substantial effort in the lab, only to find they have been squeezed off of a paper for political reasons. My best suggestion is that if a lab doesn't "click" with you, leave when it's still early. Lab drama ain't worth your time. Seriously. Lab drama is the devil and has the potential to follow you around for the rest of your professional career.

3. Project: is it bench, clinical, translational, etc? This can definitely impact the duration of a research project. I can only speak to bench-work, but there are projects in their 5th year running full-steam at my lab... and still not yet published. A project I was published on took about 3+ years of effort (though I was only working on it part-time for 2 years). Also, if your project requires a lot of collaboration with other labs this may either speed up or slow down the process. A lot of my work will never end up being published because a) it catastrophically failed or b) the project was not classified for public release.... in fact, the majority of work I did will never end up in press because it failed. I'm also primary author on a internal govt. report, but couldn't put it on my app. C'est la vie. The experience was worth more than the publications.

4. Journal: lots of variability here. Sometimes you'll be accepted off the bat, other times you'll fall into limbo with multiple edits, or maybe you'll even have to go from journal to journal, begging for acceptance. You may get a reviewer with a vendetta against your PI. :shrug: What can you do? I wish I knew.

In short: My research experience was rather atypical. I did a few months in an undergrad lab (basically an unpaid scut monkey), disliked the research/environment, and applied for a paid traineeship in a government lab my sophomore year.

Pros: Hands down best experience in my undergrad career. I was the only undergrad, so I was mentored continually by staff scientists and actually worked alongside my PI. As the sole undergrad you kind of become their little project and they sink a lot of time/energy into your learning experience. The projects I worked on were also utterly amazing... at a few of my interviews I was asked only about my research. In fact, I got my current gap year job thanks to the people I met throughout my undergrad research.

Cons: with the downturn in govt. educational program funding, the program I was hired on under is now defunct and such positions are extremely rare... my PI doesn't even have undergrads now. Also, most of the defense-related projects were not allowed to be published (hence no poster presentations or conferences), though it is cool to say you had a security clearance. Finally, because I wasn't at a degree-granting institution, there was no "push" to get papers out for PhD students... and so manuscripts could take their sweet 'ol time. They still are taking their time... 😉

tl;dr: do research. It's cool, but it can also suck. Pubs are the (rare) little cherry on top.
 
As others have said before: this is hugely timing, lab, project, and journal dependent. Really, your best bet is to put forth the effort... and a lot of luck. I don't have as much experience as many others on this forum, but I'll just share my observations. ~the following is anecdotal evidence only~

1. Timing: coming on at the right time is key. If you can come onto the end of a project, analyze the data, and crank out some figures, you ought to be golden. However, more often than not, undergrads will be placed on new projects where they can prove their worth... hence more data collection and less figure generating. While landing such a project can be sheer luck, I found that the projects set aside for summer fellowship students (think SURF, Amgen, etc.) are typically more "mature" projects, so you may be able to tackle a substantial chunk of a project that will eventually make its way to publication. The PIs at my summer program loved to make their summer students look really good for the end-of-program poster competition, so they didn't stick people onto dead-end projects. 😉 They'll also be paying you at these programs, so they'll want to get some worthwhile research out.

2. Lab: you're going to start off at the bottom, but will you be given the chance to work your way up? There was one lab at my undergrad that was infamous for letting everyone on and would have an assembly line of 50+ undergrads pumping out data... so the prospect of an authorship created fierce competition (and lots of pettiness). In the end, some people were tacked onto papers pretty much arbitrarily. They'd usually end up with something like 20th author, by the time the 12 different masters students were factored in, and would never actually touch the manuscript. On the other hand, my lab was small and I was the only undergrad (not even any grad students either!), so I got an unparalleled level of mentorship. My superiors also really wanted me to learn more, become fully independent, and publish before matriculating to med school. Honestly, my mentors taught me more than my 4 years of undergrad coursework did. I credit my MCAT BS score entirely to all the literature review and experimental design they helped me with.

Regarding lab drama: I feel horrible for the students who put out substantial effort in the lab, only to find they have been squeezed off of a paper for political reasons. My best suggestion is that if a lab doesn't "click" with you, leave when it's still early. Lab drama ain't worth your time. Seriously. Lab drama is the devil and has the potential to follow you around for the rest of your professional career.

3. Project: is it bench, clinical, translational, etc? This can definitely impact the duration of a research project. I can only speak to bench-work, but there are projects in their 5th year running full-steam at my lab... and still not yet published. A project I was published on took about 3+ years of effort (though I was only working on it part-time for 2 years). Also, if your project requires a lot of collaboration with other labs this may either speed up or slow down the process. A lot of my work will never end up being published because a) it catastrophically failed or b) the project was not classified for public release.... in fact, the majority of work I did will never end up in press because it failed. I'm also primary author on a internal govt. report, but couldn't put it on my app. C'est la vie. The experience was worth more than the publications.

4. Journal: lots of variability here. Sometimes you'll be accepted off the bat, other times you'll fall into limbo with multiple edits, or maybe you'll even have to go from journal to journal, begging for acceptance. You may get a reviewer with a vendetta against your PI. :shrug: What can you do? I wish I knew.

In short: My research experience was rather atypical. I did a few months in an undergrad lab (basically an unpaid scut monkey), disliked the research/environment, and applied for a paid traineeship in a government lab my sophomore year.

Pros: Hands down best experience in my undergrad career. I was the only undergrad, so I was mentored continually by staff scientists and actually worked alongside my PI. As the sole undergrad you kind of become their little project and they sink a lot of time/energy into your learning experience. The projects I worked on were also utterly amazing... at a few of my interviews I was asked only about my research. In fact, I got my current gap year job thanks to the people I met throughout my undergrad research.

Cons: with the downturn in govt. educational program funding, the program I was hired on under is now defunct and such positions are extremely rare... my PI doesn't even have undergrads now. Also, most of the defense-related projects were not allowed to be published (hence no poster presentations or conferences), though it is cool to say you had a security clearance. Finally, because I wasn't at a degree-granting institution, there was no "push" to get papers out for PhD students... and so manuscripts could take their sweet 'ol time. They still are taking their time... 😉

tl;dr: do research. It's cool, but it can also suck. Pubs are the (rare) little cherry on top.

Overall, quality post. A few thoughts...

1&2. I think that this timing issue is something that a lot of people have a hard time with. If you join a lab in that "golden" timing, people feel like they get left off authorship wise or bumped down the ladder because they put the finishing touches on something that people have spent several years on. I've been doing research for the better part of 10 years now. Virtually every student that I have ever heard say that they were denied authorship for "political reasons" was full of crap. People drastically overestimate their importance to projects or overvalue their contributions to things because of the raw hours that they put in. Being bumped down on the list of authors definitely happens, but to be honest, for the vast majority of things, only the first author matters. Truth be told, when I am reviewing applications (looked through ~15 today), I look at first authorship and the journal it was published in. When I actually sit down to talk with someone I look over things a little closer, but for a first glance, that is all I care about really.

3. Nail on the head. Experience > Publication. I don't care if you published, didn't publish or published about shark reproduction (yes, that was actually on someone's application today), if it means that you learned something about scientific method, designing experiments, working as a part of a team, literature review, writing etc. etc. that means so much more to me than where it was published or if it was published. I have an undergrad working with me who has his name on 2 things after 1 semester. That will likely be 6 papers by the end of Christmas break. Only one of them is he the first author of, but considering that he has never physically set foot in our lab (lives and goes to school 1200 miles away) and I saw him in May, that is pretty good. Hard working, good at communicating, has very desirable skill sets (Applied Math w/ Statistics focus, programming background) etc. But, more importantly, we are doing clinical research, outcomes research. Between 2 residents, we will likely publish ~22 papers in one year and that is only that low because I stopped bothering with anything that was going to be the largest published series or never before published. Otherwise, if we were willing to go with the tier 3 journals (lower impact factors), it could easily be 50+ publications this year. It is completely different than bench research.

4. Re-writes/endless edits, hated PIs etc all happen because of crappy research and/or poor writing/communication. The biggest issues are, lack of writing foundation (aka middle school and high school) and people taking shortcuts that end up biting them in the ass later.
 
From my experience and from those of my friends, smaller labs are definitely the best for undergrad. I get one-on-one time with my mentor every single day and have learned a tremendous amount. Also, I think joining a lab that is fresh and just starting up will be pretty helpful for getting a lot of responsibility since the PI wants to pump out papers just as much as you and usually needs everyone to have big responsibilities. My lab was a few years old when I joined and has 6 people in it.
 
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