How difficult is it to get into one of the ROAD specialty?

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Premed90

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How many people actually make into the one of the ROAD specialties? Is it only a small portion? Does everyone make it into a specialty they some what like? Is anyone forced into doing a specialty cause they couldn't make it into something they liked?

And do you guys suggest going into med school with the same competitive state of mind as in pre-med or more relaxed? I really want to make into Ophthalmology. The uncertainty of going into med school and not getting into field I want to work in is scary though.

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How many people actually make into the one of the ROAD specialties?

Not everyone who wants to.

Is it only a small portion?

Relatively speaking, yes.

Does everyone make it into a specialty they some what like?

No.

Is anyone forced into doing a specialty cause they couldn't make it into something they liked.

Yes.

And do you guys suggest going into med school with the same competitive state of mind as in pre-med or more relaxed? I really want to make into Ophthalmology. The uncertainty of going into med school and not getting into field I want to work in is scary though.

Then you might want to ponder the whole "going to med school in the first place" part a lot more.

Since you're a pre-med debating whether or not you should even GO to med school in the first place, and it really sounds like this is more of a pre-med type of question (and not as pertinent to general residency), I'm moving it to pre-allo.
 
How many people actually make into the one of the ROAD specialties? Is it only a small portion? Does everyone make it into a specialty they some what like? Is anyone forced into doing a specialty cause they couldn't make it into something they liked?

And do you guys suggest going into med school with the same competitive state of mind as in pre-med or more relaxed? I really want to make into Ophthalmology. The uncertainty of going into med school and not getting into field I want to work in is scary though.

I believe it does happen that you get "stuck" in a residency that wasn't your first choice because your numbers weren't competitive enough to get into your top choice (this happens most with things like derm or plastics, etc, that have very few spots in the country). Sometimes there are "backways" into certain specialties (for example, you can do plastics as a fellowship off general surgery instead of trying to get into the integrated programs straight out of med school), but sometimes there aren't.

As a rule, going to med school because you have a do-or-die uber-competitive specialty in mind is sort of a bad idea. For one thing, you might (and probably will) change your mind at some point. I'm only halfway through my first year and I've already crossed a few specialties off my list because I'm starting to figure out what I'm good at and what I enjoy. Priorities might also change if you meet someone with whom you'd like to start a family, etc.

Go to med school because medicine interests you. However, stay open-minded. Almost everyone changes their mind at some point, and you don't want to have some kind of identity crisis during third year because you didn't do as well as you would have liked on Step 1 and you don't like medicine after all or have never considered anything but one of the ROADs.
 
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I believe it does happen that you get "stuck" in a residency that wasn't your first choice because your numbers weren't competitive enough to get into your top choice (this happens most with things like derm or plastics, etc, that have very few spots in the country). Sometimes there are "backways" into certain specialties (for example, you can do plastics as a fellowship off general surgery instead of trying to get into the integrated programs straight out of med school), but sometimes there aren't.

As a rule, going to med school because you have a do-or-die uber-competitive specialty in mind is sort of a bad idea. For one thing, you might (and probably will) change your mind at some point. I'm only halfway through my first year and I've already crossed a few specialties off my list because I'm starting to figure out what I'm good at and what I enjoy. Priorities might also change if you meet someone with whom you'd like to start a family, etc.

Go to med school because medicine interests you. However, stay open-minded. Almost everyone changes their mind at some point, and you don't want to have some kind of identity crisis during third year because you didn't do as well as you would have liked on Step 1 and you don't like medicine after all or have never considered anything but one of the ROADs.

Agreed! 👍
 
Can someone explain what a "ROAD" specialty is?
 
Can someone explain what a "ROAD" specialty is?
Radiology, ophthalmology, anesthesiology, and dermatology. It's suggesting that these are all high-paying specialties with a good lifestyle, which is somewhat true.

Radiology and anesthesiology are actually not as competitive, especially compared to dermatology. I don't know much about optho.

I worked with two medicine residents last year who were trying to get into derm, but they failed to do so. Internal medicine was their back-up plan. I know a resident who was going for orthopedic surgery and didn't match, so she scrambled into anesthesia.
 
OP, you should probably worry about getting into med school first.
 
I believe it does happen that you get "stuck" in a residency that wasn't your first choice because your numbers weren't competitive enough to get into your top choice (this happens most with things like derm or plastics, etc, that have very few spots in the country). Sometimes there are "backways" into certain specialties (for example, you can do plastics as a fellowship off general surgery instead of trying to get into the integrated programs straight out of med school), but sometimes there aren't.

As a rule, going to med school because you have a do-or-die uber-competitive specialty in mind is sort of a bad idea. For one thing, you might (and probably will) change your mind at some point. I'm only halfway through my first year and I've already crossed a few specialties off my list because I'm starting to figure out what I'm good at and what I enjoy. Priorities might also change if you meet someone with whom you'd like to start a family, etc.

Go to med school because medicine interests you. However, stay open-minded. Almost everyone changes their mind at some point, and you don't want to have some kind of identity crisis during third year because you didn't do as well as you would have liked on Step 1 and you don't like medicine after all or have never considered anything but one of the ROADs.
While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with the bolded. I think it's a good idea to go into medical school with a competitive specialty in mind, even if you think it's unlikely you'll go into it. That way you don't end up slacking off or not doing well on Step 1 or something like that thinking that you're definitely going to go into IM, pediatrics, etc. So, even if you fall in love with a very competitive specialty during the clinical years, you won't hear doors slamming due to past performance.

Edit: I know you mentioned open-mindedness in your last paragraph. I just think it would be easier to try harder if you have a competitive specialty in mind that you think you'd enjoy.
 
As a rule, going to med school because you have a do-or-die uber-competitive specialty in mind is sort of a bad idea.

I think it's a good idea to go into medical school with a competitive specialty in mind, even if you think it's unlikely you'll go into it.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think the difference here is between entering medicine BECAUSE you want to do derm/neurosurg/whatever and entering medicine because you like medicine (and happen to prefer a competitive specialty).

If you get to the point where you've done all you can to get into that specialty and it's not enough, are you going to live the rest of your life a disgruntled internist or family doc or [insert other specialty here]?
 
Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think the difference here is between entering medicine BECAUSE you want to do derm/neurosurg/whatever and entering medicine because you like medicine (and happen to prefer a competitive specialty).

If you get to the point where you've done all you can to get into that specialty and it's not enough, are you going to live the rest of your life a disgruntled internist or family doc or [insert other specialty here]?

Well, this is part of what I was going to say. The other part is this: you will realize when you get to med school that there's no such thing as "slacking off". I really don't know anyone in my class who thinks "hell, I'm probably going into primary care, so it doesn't matter how I do." Really, everyone tries their damnedest. It's incredibly different from college, in which the difference between the guy who wants to go to med school and the guy who's just taking bio to get a prerequisite over with is really immense. Everyone here knows how to get an A. Everyone is incredibly self-motivated and for the most part, smart. While there's certainly a range in how much people study, it really isn't related to what specialty people are thinking of going into (in fact, we make fun of those crazy people who KNOW they want to go into ortho and are already stressing out about getting AOA).

Not to mention the fact that a lot of med schools are pass/fail in the first two years anyway, so trying hard to get a 100 is just straight up not worth it.

As for Step 1, I'm not terribly familiar with how that works quite yet, but as far as I understand, again the range in the time people put into it is really rather small. Everyone at a certain school has the same amount of time to study for it (unlike the MCAT, where some people spend 6 months studying and others spend 3 weeks), and that time is universally acknowledged not to be enough, so everyone works their butt off.

Truly, I don't know anyone who's trying less because FP is easy to get into. There are no real slackers in med school.

Incidentally, this is one of the biggest adjustments for a lot of people. Motivation and ambition no longer separate you from the unwashed masses, because everyone there is motivated and ambitious. You compete with your equals. It's definitely a tall order.
 
It's not easy, that's for sure.. But, one thing to consider is that all of the "competitive" specialties, by the time you get to apply, will be determined by the redistribution of reimbursement. This has been true for a long time, and with the inevitable changes coming down the track, it will sure change again.

Could you see yourself doing Opthomology for 200,000/year vs Internal medicine for 300,000/year?
 
It's not easy, that's for sure.. But, one thing to consider is that all of the "competitive" specialties, by the time you get to apply, will be determined by the redistribution of reimbursement. This has been true for a long time, and with the inevitable changes coming down the track, it will sure change again.

Could you see yourself doing Opthomology for 200,000/year vs Internal medicine for 300,000/year?

Now, this would change things!! :laugh:
 
I like the ROADE "better"...

It includes EM. Anes and EM are relatively not that competitive.

Rads is pretty competitive.

Optho is more so....and

Derm is near the top!! 😱

I know a girl that was second in her class and did not get Derm. She is smart as a MF too! She had everything too!!
 
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I like the ROADE "better"...

It includes EM. Anes and EM are relatively not that competitive.

Rads is pretty competitive.

Optho is more so....and

Derm is near the top!! 😱

I know a girl that was second in her class and did not get Derm. She is smart as a MF too! She had everything too!!

EM is a lot lower (Avg 222) than the ones that you mentioned here.

Here's all of the match information that you could ever ask for.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

This is what our match coordinator points us to.
 
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Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think the difference here is between entering medicine BECAUSE you want to do derm/neurosurg/whatever and entering medicine because you like medicine (and happen to prefer a competitive specialty).

If you get to the point where you've done all you can to get into that specialty and it's not enough, are you going to live the rest of your life a disgruntled internist or family doc or [insert other specialty here]?

This is a good point. It's not that you shouldn't enter medical school with a determined mindset and do your best regardless of whether or not you're interested in a competitive specialty, it's that it's naive to enter dead-set on a ROAD (or non-lifestyle, yet similarly exclusive) specialty. The good (or at least realistic) news is, even if you think you're married to one field now, chances are you'll have no problem considering alternatives and finding other things you'd be happy doing. Many people think they know what they want to do then switch multiple times, often between wildly varying specialties, once they actually get some experience beyond a few shadowing days or summer research projects. A lot of these shifts may represent "settling" based on academic constraints, but I think it's a rare student that gets forced into a field they actually dislike.
 
Most of the people that came into medical school, totally focused on one field, quickly changed their minds and went with something else (or open for that matter). Why? Everyone starts out wanting to slay the exams and make A's (and why not, they always have been able to), but that rarely pans out for them.

Before school even starts, they tell us that 50% of our class will be in the bottom 50th percentile.

It's not easy to maintain good grades, and it's certainly not easy to pull off a 240+ Step 1.
 
It's not easy, that's for sure.. But, one thing to consider is that all of the "competitive" specialties, by the time you get to apply, will be determined by the redistribution of reimbursement. This has been true for a long time, and with the inevitable changes coming down the track, it will sure change again.

One thing will be certain (barring the total nationalization of healthcare and move to single-payer), any specialty that can sustain a "for-cash" practice model will be competitive. See: derm and plastics.

I don't think it's unwise to shoot for a competitive specialty. I'd like to pursue medicine, but if I knew ahead of time I'd be stuck with IM or general slavery, I'd quite before I even started. At that point, it wouldn't be worth it, in my opinion. While aiming for an uber-competitive specialty, and ONLY that specialty is arguably not very smart, I'd say drawing the line somewhere isn't being too idealistic.
 
Most of the people that came into medical school, totally focused on one field, quickly changed their minds and went with something else (or open for that matter). Why? Everyone starts out wanting to slay the exams and make A's (and why not, they always have been able to), but that rarely pans out for them.

Before school even starts, they tell us that 50% of our class will be in the bottom 50th percentile.

It's not easy to maintain good grades, and it's certainly not easy to pull off a 240+ Step 1.


Med school is hard!! Go figure....😀
 
Med school is hard!! Go figure....😀

I don't really think that's his point.

I think he's mostly responding to a lot of the posters on this forum. It's easy for people who have gotten great grades their whole lives to say "well, as long as I keep working as hard as I've always worked, there's no reason I won't be able to be in the top half". But this isn't the case. Even at Harvard or Hopkins or the number ho, Wash U, 50% of the class is in the bottom 50. People don't realize what a step up it is in terms of the people you're competing with.

Honestly, I'm constantly astonished at how brilliant my classmates are. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm not used to being surrounded by people who can totally keep up with me. I notice it in small things- I remember talking to a friend of mine about some test question, and neither one of us had known the answer, and we'd both used the same logic (that I was very proud of myself for, since I felt most people hadn't made the same logical connection) to arrive to the right answer. When you're studying, your classmates are studying. When you're NOT studying, a bunch of your classmates are probably STILL studying. When you get your first exam back, which you studied umpteen hours for, find you got an 88 and pat yourself in the back before realizing the class average was a 92, then you start to really figure out what you're in store for.

So yeah, that's why I find it hilarious when I read "ok, so if I stay in the top 20% of my class and do well on Step 1, I should be fine?" Sure. But it's like talking to a high school student and hearing "ok, so if I get a 4.0 in a chemical engineering and classics double major, get a 40 on the MCAT, get at least 2 papers published, and become a rhodes scholar, I'll get into Harvard right?" Well, sure. All we can really say is, you'll see.
 
No, it's the pre-med gang that says "So I plan to be in the top 10% of my class, and if I get a 250+ on Step 1...."


No, just no.

Agreed. You have to look at med school as the different arena it is. You might be the best college football player, but when you graduate to the pros, you realize that you are quite average when playing ball with the best from all the other schools. Med school is like this. All of the weaker students who made you look so good have been truncated away. Everyone in med school got "mostly A's" during college, scored decently on the MCAT. Everybody who got Cs and did poorly on the MCAT is now gone, truncated away by the admissions staff. The credentials at each med school are a very tight range -- the best applicant isn't appreciably better than the worst, and anybody there has shown the potential to get the top A in their prior studies. So in the group of formerly A students now in med school, half are going to be in the bottom half of your class. There is a 50% chance that you will be one of them. Sure, you might have been the best in your college, but guess what -- many of your classmates will have been too, and some of you won't sustain it in med school. Also it should be noted that a lot of what worked in getting A's in college doesn't work in med school, so the people who do best aren't always the smartest, but the most adaptable in terms of learning. The volume of info you will learn is bigger in med school than anything in undergrad, and the approaches change-- memorization is stressed in the early years while application is stressed in the later years. So the answer is, you don't know how you are going to do until you get there, and you have no idea how hard you will have to work just to keep your head above water, to stay in front of the curve, let alone to be at the top. Being at the top of the heap in college isn't a great indicator for being at the top of med school, because your whole med school class was hand picked for being able to excel at that med school. So you probably aren't being realistic if you show up thinking, "I was top 10% in college, so I will be top 10% in med school". Doesn't work that way for most of the top 10%ers.

As for ROAD specialties (and no, you can't just change the letters because you like a particular specialty like EM -- ROAD is historic for a certain balance between salary and lifestyle), you aren't guaranteed one, regardless of how good you were in college and how much you want it. Of the group, Anesthesia tends to be the most volatile, being very competitive one year, not particularly competitive the next. It bottomed out a few years ago and is probably more attainable than the other three, but Derm and optho tend to be perennial impossible to get fields, along with things like rad onc (which didn't exist when the acronym ROAD was made up). Radiology is competitive, but not quite at at the derm level because there are many more spots nationally. In short, yes these are competitive, no you aren't guaranteed a spot in them regardless of how much you want them or how hard you work at it, and yes you frequently need a back-up if you are interested in one of these fields. I have said on many occasions that I probably wouldn't advise someone to go to med school if they only wanted to be a dermatologist. You might get that shot, you probably won't. Some of it is under your control (researching, working hard), some of it isn't (test taking skills on USMLE, aptitude, memorization ability). So only go to med school if you want to be a clinician first, and a specialist later, if you get that opportunity. You might not get that opportunity and so you have to be happy with whatever comes.
 
As for ROAD specialties (and no, you can't just change the letters because you like a particular specialty like EM -- ROAD is historic for a certain balance between salary and lifestyle.

Sorry, did not know I had to clear it with you, boss!! 🙄

I think EM gives a nice balance of money and lifestyle. It just depends on what lifestyle you consider important....EM has less hrs than Anes just holidays and nights...

So, it is a matter of interpretation on behalf of the person....

Just like how you can pronounce certain words two ways....

You nor I are the absolute on what can be included into a "list". There are too many variables...and each of us have an opinion.

Unless you have some special certification to show us....😀
 
Agreed. You have to look at med school as the different arena it is. You might be the best college football player, but when you graduate to the pros, you realize that you are quite average when playing ball with the best from all the other schools. Med school is like this. All of the weaker students who made you look so good have been truncated away. Everyone in med school got "mostly A's" during college, scored decently on the MCAT. Everybody who got Cs and did poorly on the MCAT is now gone, truncated away by the admissions staff. The credentials at each med school are a very tight range -- the best applicant isn't appreciably better than the worst, and anybody there has shown the potential to get the top A in their prior studies. So in the group of formerly A students now in med school, half are going to be in the bottom half of your class. There is a 50% chance that you will be one of them. Sure, you might have been the best in your college, but guess what -- many of your classmates will have been too, and some of you won't sustain it in med school. Also it should be noted that a lot of what worked in getting A's in college doesn't work in med school, so the people who do best aren't always the smartest, but the most adaptable in terms of learning. The volume of info you will learn is bigger in med school than anything in undergrad, and the approaches change-- memorization is stressed in the early years while application is stressed in the later years. So the answer is, you don't know how you are going to do until you get there, and you have no idea how hard you will have to work just to keep your head above water, to stay in front of the curve, let alone to be at the top. Being at the top of the heap in college isn't a great indicator for being at the top of med school, because your whole med school class was hand picked for being able to excel at that med school. So you probably aren't being realistic if you show up thinking, "I was top 10% in college, so I will be top 10% in med school". Doesn't work that way for most of the top 10%ers.

As for ROAD specialties (and no, you can't just change the letters because you like a particular specialty like EM -- ROAD is historic for a certain balance between salary and lifestyle), you aren't guaranteed one, regardless of how good you were in college and how much you want it. Of the group, Anesthesia tends to be the most volatile, being very competitive one year, not particularly competitive the next. It bottomed out a few years ago and is probably more attainable than the other three, but Derm and optho tend to be perennial impossible to get fields, along with things like rad onc (which didn't exist when the acronym ROAD was made up). Radiology is competitive, but not quite at at the derm level because there are many more spots nationally. In short, yes these are competitive, no you aren't guaranteed a spot in them regardless of how much you want them or how hard you work at it, and yes you frequently need a back-up if you are interested in one of these fields. I have said on many occasions that I probably wouldn't advise someone to go to med school if they only wanted to be a dermatologist. You might get that shot, you probably won't. Some of it is under your control (researching, working hard), some of it isn't (test taking skills on USMLE, aptitude, memorization ability). So only go to med school if you want to be a clinician first, and a specialist later, if you get that opportunity. You might not get that opportunity and so you have to be happy with whatever comes.

I agree with most of this, but I really wonder about the bolded part. A "clinician" means something different to everyone. For a surgeon, clinical work is surgery, for IM it's rounding, for rads it's reading film, etc. When you say that everyone should come in wanting to be a "clinican," what work are you referring to exactly? Outpatient primary care? I'm just trying to clarify.
 
Sorry, did not know I had to clear it with you, boss!! 🙄

I think EM gives a nice balance of money and lifestyle. It just depends on what lifestyle you consider important....EM has less hrs than Anes just holidays and nights...

So, it is a matter of interpretation on behalf of the person....

Just like how you can pronounce certain words two ways....

You nor I are the absolute on what can be included into a "list". There are too many variables...and each of us have an opinion.

Unless you have some special certification to show us....😀

It's not about clearing it with anybody. It's about an acronym that has existed for many decades. Everybody has their own idea about what specialty is the best choice. And not all of the ROAD specialties are the equivalent, as they may have been in the time the term was created. But ROAD is a term of art, not something you can just change or add to unilaterally. Otherwise you confuse those premeds here who never heard the term before and don't realize that when you use the phrase "ROAD" specialty people in the profession generally will know what you mean, but if you start adding and deleting letters, people won't.
 
I agree with most of this, but I really wonder about the bolded part. A "clinician" means something different to everyone. For a surgeon, clinical work is surgery, for IM it's rounding, for rads it's reading film, etc. When you say that everyone should come in wanting to be a "clinican," what work are you referring to exactly? Outpatient primary care? I'm just trying to clarify.

Simple. By clinician, I mean doing the clinical work of taking care of patients. (Doesn't have to be outpatient, doesn't have to be non-surgical, but this, at its core, is what all people who go to med school have to be comfortable doing as a career). Virtually all of the specialties want you to be a generalist first and a specialist second. So the dude going into derm or rads is going to be spending a year doing an internship (either in medicine, surgery or transitional) taking care of patients before he can move on to his desired specialty. And the person who doesn't get into a desired specialty had better like taking care of patients because that's what s/he is most likely going to be doing for a lot longer. So no, if you only can see yourself reading films as a radiologist, don't go to med school -- you may not get there. If you think that would be cool, but you also like working with people and dealing with them in a clinical setting, that's fine. But the person who posts -- I only want to be a dermatologist and it's that or nothing -- should never go to med school, because odds are heavy that this person will end up doing something else in medicine and hate it. You can have lofty goals but if it's an all or nothing kind of thing, jump right to nothing and skip it. I know many smart people who fell short on their goals of derm, ortho, optho, rads, rad onc. That's just par for the course. If you shoot for the stars, sometimes you get no further than the moon. So you have to be happy with the moon or not even bother, going through all the years of hard work, studying away your twenties. I think if you want to be a doctor go to med school. But if you only want to be a doctor if you can be a certain kind of doctor, think again.

This notion is not unique to medicine. In law, there inevitably were a few people in each school who went to law school to be bigshot sports agents, or entertainment lawyers for the stars or to do public international law; nothing else would be of interest. Guess what? They inevitably ended up in small law firms reading commercial contracts and the like, and many are pretty miserable about it. There are only a few such spots for these fields, generally are not starting positions, and rarely can you get there simply by wanting it and working hard. Should they have gone to law school with such a finite specialty as the end goal? Sure if they wanted to be a lawyer first and this being their longshot. But no if this was the only thing that would suffice. So too with doctoring. You need to want to be a doctor (clinician) first, and be a dermatologist second. You probably get my point.
 
It's not about clearing it with anybody. It's about an acronym that has existed for many decades. Everybody has their own idea about what specialty is the best choice. And not all of the ROAD specialties are the equivalent, as they may have been in the time the term was created. But ROAD is a term of art, not something you can just change or add to unilaterally. Otherwise you confuse those premeds here who never heard the term before and don't realize that when you use the phrase "ROAD" specialty people in the profession generally will know what you mean, but if you start adding and deleting letters, people won't.

+1. Even though I know JDUB really, really wants it to be ROADE.
 
The uncertainty of going into med school and not getting into field I want to work in is scary though.

while you think you know what field you want to go into, you really don't know.
don't let that stress you out at all. just work towards getting in first.

if you'd be just as happy doing something else, do that something else because it's a hell of a lot easier.
 
It's not about clearing it with anybody. It's about an acronym that has existed for many decades. Everybody has their own idea about what specialty is the best choice. And not all of the ROAD specialties are the equivalent, as they may have been in the time the term was created. But ROAD is a term of art, not something you can just change or add to unilaterally. Otherwise you confuse those premeds here who never heard the term before and don't realize that when you use the phrase "ROAD" specialty people in the profession generally will know what you mean, but if you start adding and deleting letters, people won't.

Term of art.....please!! 🙄

Plastics and Rads Onco need to be in there too!

Times change as so should acronyms......adapt or perish!! 😀
 
It's not about clearing it with anybody. It's about an acronym that has existed for many decades. Everybody has their own idea about what specialty is the best choice. And not all of the ROAD specialties are the equivalent, as they may have been in the time the term was created. But ROAD is a term of art, not something you can just change or add to unilaterally. Otherwise you confuse those premeds here who never heard the term before and don't realize that when you use the phrase "ROAD" specialty people in the profession generally will know what you mean, but if you start adding and deleting letters, people won't.

You sure about that "decades" part?
 
I can tell you my thoughts on the ROAD...

Rads - Straight up rocks, I admit I'm biased. Definite pros and cons and not for everyone (I won't bore you with a rehash of my personal statement about rads here). Competetive.

Optho- Pretty sweet deal but since cataracts and lasix took a huge hit in compensation ~5 years ago, salary has dropped (but this happens to all of us in medicine at one point or another). I'm not sure how competetive this really is. People say it is, but 4/5 of the people that matched optho in my class were bottom 1/3rd with average step 1 scores.

Anesthesia - The CRNA thing is scary and sickening. Several of my closest friends are newly minted attendings and from what I take from their constant bitching, the CRNA issue is HUGE. Otherwise, they love it. Right now, Anesthesia is sweet, but it's near future is mysterious (most people would say more so than any other specialty). Mid competetive.

Derm - Uber competetive. Residency requires a lot more reading than people think. I can't stand the patient population (aka the cosmetic aspect). Awesome lifestyle - most people work dentist hours (4 days/week 8-4, no call). Only top med students (or those with political connections) have a realistic shot.

EM - I can see why some people dig it. But, I did a month of this my intern year and was literally burnt out. Mid competetive, but this is getting really popular from what I've seen. My old classmates that went ER really like it.

Rand onc - Nerd alert. If you like reading medical journals and doing physics, rock on. Definitely competetive (largely from the small number of spots). I hear the lifestyle is good.

Plastics - Not too sure. 5-7 years of residency is hell from what I've seen. I guess if you did solely cosmetic in private practice, this would be sweet, but people don't realize how much plastics folk are involved with trauma (aka call).

PMR - This truly is a lifestyle specialty in terms of hours and stress, but the $ is on the lower end so people don't mention it. Not competetive.

Ortho - I hate surgery. But in my mind, this is the ONLY surgical specialty I would consider. Residency is rough, but from what I've seen, some PP gigs aren't bad (and you get paid very nicely). Very competetive - below derm, above rads ballpark. Still wouldn't call this a lifestyle specialty though - you're still a surgeon.

All that being said, you'll have to see what fits YOU individually. The specilaties are SO different that there really is something for everyone. BUT, not all of us will match Derm. Thats the one thing I never really thought about going into med school - not everyone will be able to do what they want, yikes that's kinda depressing.

Another thing, I went in thinking for sure FP and ended up in Radiology. I think like 75% think one specialty upon starting med school and end up doing something else come match time. Keep your mind open!
 
I can tell you my thoughts on the ROAD...

Rads - Straight up rocks, I admit I'm biased. Definite pros and cons and not for everyone (I won't bore you with a rehash of my personal statement about rads here). Competetive.


Optho- Pretty sweet deal but since cataracts and lasix took a huge hit in compensation ~5 years ago, salary has dropped (but this happens to all of us in medicine at one point or another). I'm not sure how competetive this really is. People say it is, but 4/5 of the people that matched optho in my class were bottom 1/3rd with average step 1 scores.

Anesthesia - The CRNA thing is scary and sickening. Several of my closest friends are newly minted attendings and from what I take from their constant bitching, the CRNA issue is HUGE. Otherwise, they love it. Right now, Anesthesia is sweet, but it's near future is mysterious (most people would say more so than any other specialty). Mid competetive.

Derm - Uber competetive. Residency requires a lot more reading than people think. I can't stand the patient population (aka the cosmetic aspect). Awesome lifestyle - most people work dentist hours (4 days/week 8-4, no call). Only top med students (or those with political connections) have a realistic shot.

EM - I can see why some people dig it. But, I did a month of this my intern year and was literally burnt out. Mid competetive, but this is getting really popular from what I've seen. My old classmates that went ER really like it.

Rand onc - Nerd alert. If you like reading medical journals and doing physics, rock on. Definitely competetive (largely from the small number of spots). I hear the lifestyle is good.

Plastics - Not too sure. 5-7 years of residency is hell from what I've seen. I guess if you did solely cosmetic in private practice, this would be sweet, but people don't realize how much plastics folk are involved with trauma (aka call).

PMR - This truly is a lifestyle specialty in terms of hours and stress, but the $ is on the lower end so people don't mention it. Not competetive.

Ortho - I hate surgery. But in my mind, this is the ONLY surgical specialty I would consider. Residency is rough, but from what I've seen, some PP gigs aren't bad (and you get paid very nicely). Very competetive - below derm, above rads ballpark. Still wouldn't call this a lifestyle specialty though - you're still a surgeon.

All that being said, you'll have to see what fits YOU individually. The specilaties are SO different that there really is something for everyone. BUT, not all of us will match Derm. Thats the one thing I never really thought about going into med school - not everyone will be able to do what they want, yikes that's kinda depressing.

Another thing, I went in thinking for sure FP and ended up in Radiology. I think like 75% think one specialty upon starting med school and end up doing something else come match time. Keep your mind open!

Isn't Rads taking a pretty big hit with the proposed health care reforms as far as reimbursements go? Perhaps I misunderstood the proposed cuts?
 
Radiology: step 1 in low 240's.
Ophthalmology: step 1 in mid 230's.
Anesthesia: step 1 in mid 220's.
Dermatology: step 1 in mid 240's.

Avg step 1 is ~220.
 
But the person who posts -- I only want to be a dermatologist and it's that or nothing -- should never go to med school, because odds are heavy that this person will end up doing something else in medicine and hate it. You can have lofty goals but if it's an all or nothing kind of thing, jump right to nothing and skip it. I know many smart people who fell short on their goals of derm, ortho, optho, rads, rad onc. That's just par for the course.
Although if your goal is family medicine, pediatrics, psychiatry, or pathology, then you really don't have much to worry about, because those specialties generally have more spots than US applicants.
 
Can someone explain to me why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty? They work relatively few hours and the work is relatively easy. Is it just that they don't make 300+ per year?
 
Can someone explain to me why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty? They work relatively few hours and the work is relatively easy. Is it just that they don't make 300+ per year?

You also have to consider the populations they work with, the emotional toll, etc. It's a tough job. I wouldn't exactly call their work "relatively easy." Let's be honest here....
 
Can someone explain to me why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty? They work relatively few hours and the work is relatively easy. Is it just that they don't make 300+ per year?

Psychiatry is a tough job. Working with mental health patients is challenging. I don't know any dermatologist that face the threat of being butchered or gunned down by their patients. And the pay for psychiatrists isn't exactly helping either. So yes, the hours may be good but the pay, patient population and environment isn't "cushy".
 
Agreed. You have to look at med school as the different arena it is. You might be the best college football player, but when you graduate to the pros, you realize that you are quite average when playing ball with the best from all the other schools. Med school is like this. All of the weaker students who made you look so good have been truncated away. Everyone in med school got "mostly A's" during college, scored decently on the MCAT. Everybody who got Cs and did poorly on the MCAT is now gone, truncated away by the admissions staff. The credentials at each med school are a very tight range -- the best applicant isn't appreciably better than the worst, and anybody there has shown the potential to get the top A in their prior studies. So in the group of formerly A students now in med school, half are going to be in the bottom half of your class. There is a 50% chance that you will be one of them. Sure, you might have been the best in your college, but guess what -- many of your classmates will have been too, and some of you won't sustain it in med school. Also it should be noted that a lot of what worked in getting A's in college doesn't work in med school, so the people who do best aren't always the smartest, but the most adaptable in terms of learning. The volume of info you will learn is bigger in med school than anything in undergrad, and the approaches change-- memorization is stressed in the early years while application is stressed in the later years. So the answer is, you don't know how you are going to do until you get there, and you have no idea how hard you will have to work just to keep your head above water, to stay in front of the curve, let alone to be at the top. Being at the top of the heap in college isn't a great indicator for being at the top of med school, because your whole med school class was hand picked for being able to excel at that med school. So you probably aren't being realistic if you show up thinking, "I was top 10% in college, so I will be top 10% in med school". Doesn't work that way for most of the top 10%ers.

👍

Does dealing with competition continue into residency? Or does it only fade away when you reach the coveted attending status?
 
Can someone explain to me why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty? They work relatively few hours and the work is relatively easy. Is it just that they don't make 300+ per year?
Like you said, it's not that lucrative, but even more, it's a whole different animal compared to most other medical specialties. For me, it just wasn't interesting at all.
 
I can tell you my thoughts on the ROAD...

Rads - Straight up rocks, I admit I'm biased. Definite pros and cons and not for everyone (I won't bore you with a rehash of my personal statement about rads here). Competetive.

Optho- Pretty sweet deal but since cataracts and lasix took a huge hit in compensation ~5 years ago, salary has dropped (but this happens to all of us in medicine at one point or another). I'm not sure how competetive this really is. People say it is, but 4/5 of the people that matched optho in my class were bottom 1/3rd with average step 1 scores.

Anesthesia - The CRNA thing is scary and sickening. Several of my closest friends are newly minted attendings and from what I take from their constant bitching, the CRNA issue is HUGE. Otherwise, they love it. Right now, Anesthesia is sweet, but it's near future is mysterious (most people would say more so than any other specialty). Mid competetive.

Derm - Uber competetive. Residency requires a lot more reading than people think. I can't stand the patient population (aka the cosmetic aspect). Awesome lifestyle - most people work dentist hours (4 days/week 8-4, no call). Only top med students (or those with political connections) have a realistic shot.

EM - I can see why some people dig it. But, I did a month of this my intern year and was literally burnt out. Mid competetive, but this is getting really popular from what I've seen. My old classmates that went ER really like it.

Rand onc - Nerd alert. If you like reading medical journals and doing physics, rock on. Definitely competetive (largely from the small number of spots). I hear the lifestyle is good.

Plastics - Not too sure. 5-7 years of residency is hell from what I've seen. I guess if you did solely cosmetic in private practice, this would be sweet, but people don't realize how much plastics folk are involved with trauma (aka call).

PMR - This truly is a lifestyle specialty in terms of hours and stress, but the $ is on the lower end so people don't mention it. Not competetive.

Ortho - I hate surgery. But in my mind, this is the ONLY surgical specialty I would consider. Residency is rough, but from what I've seen, some PP gigs aren't bad (and you get paid very nicely). Very competetive - below derm, above rads ballpark. Still wouldn't call this a lifestyle specialty though - you're still a surgeon.

All that being said, you'll have to see what fits YOU individually. The specilaties are SO different that there really is something for everyone. BUT, not all of us will match Derm. Thats the one thing I never really thought about going into med school - not everyone will be able to do what they want, yikes that's kinda depressing.

Another thing, I went in thinking for sure FP and ended up in Radiology. I think like 75% think one specialty upon starting med school and end up doing something else come match time. Keep your mind open!


What about general surgery? I thought that was pretty competitive, too.
 
Although if your goal is family medicine, pediatrics, psychiatry, or pathology, then you really don't have much to worry about, because those specialties generally have more spots than US applicants.

pathology?

I always here FM, IM, Peds, and Psy as the bottom.....
 
Can someone explain to me why psychiatry isn't considered a lifestyle specialty? They work relatively few hours and the work is relatively easy. Is it just that they don't make 300+ per year?

it is not physical demanding but mentally exhausting.....

personally I only shadowed it one day but I liked it alot and actually found the patients interesting....

The psychiatrist even let me run the session since I was relating to the patient the best...

I was a Psy major too so it is something that is on my short list....top five...

EM and Anes are still my top.....
 
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