How do adcoms see SMP graduates?

[illegallysmooth]

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Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum, migrating over from studentdoc.com (shhh...).

I graduated from the Univ of Rochester a couple weeks ago. My prereqs were done, but my cumulative GPA was only 3.21, and my bmcp GPA is about a 3.0. My MCAT was a 27 the first time around. There are various excuses for these numbers, but I'll spare you!

Anyway, I got into the special masters program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute. Additionally, I just retook the MCAT and got a 34. Since my grades improved a lot towards my senior year and I'm REALLY focused right now, I believe wholeheartedly I will be able to get at least a 3.7 in the masters program.

My question: Looking at my application a year from now, I will have about a 3.7 and 34 MCAT, which makes me competitive for most medical schools in the country. However, will my undergraduate performance make me less competitive than a traditional applicant with a 3.7 undergrad and 34 MCAT? Or will the fact that my 3.7 comes from graduate classes (immunology, virology, physio, etc) make me more competitive than said applicant? Or would it be about equal?

Thanks!

 

[armybound]

the strong SMP performance and good MCAT score will more than likely overshadow your poor undergrad performance at some, but not all schools.

I think it was a good idea for you to take the MCAT and do the SMP

 

[njbmd]

the strong SMP performance and good MCAT score will more than likely overshadow your poor undergrad performance at some, but not all schools.

I think it was a good idea for you to take the MCAT and do the SMP

Be advised that if your SMP performance is not strong (3.7 [B+] average or better), you will be in a very poor position. I definitely agree with Armybound in that the SMP was a good option for you but you really need to do everything in your power to "bang this one out of the park" otherwise you hurt your chances of acceptance. Be prepared to devote your entire attention and energy to this program and especially do not try to work. This is the "double-edged sword" of SMPs. If you do well, they can really enhance your application. If you don't, you can put yourself in a hole that you can't get out of. Good luck!

 

[BigRedPremed]

Good performance (3.7+) in a SMP will get you an acceptance (along with that 34 MCAT score). Poor performance can kill your chances.

Even if you get a 3.7 in a SMP, I don't think your application will be quite as competitive as a traditional 3.7/34 student. You still had a 3.2 undergrad GPA and you still had to take the MCAT twice. However, with a 3.7 in a SMP, you will be a lot more competitive than a 3.2/34 student.

 

[MilkmanAl]

(3.7 [B+] average or better)

A 3.7 is an A- and an exceptional grade. I wouldn't suggest falling too much below that in your SMP, though.

 

[Perrotfish]

at Roswell Park Cancer Institute

Your new MCAT score and a good performance should at least net a number of interviews. My only concern, though, is that I've never heard of this program that you're going to be attending (not that that necessarily means anything). Do that have a good success rate with getting applicants into medical school?

 

[illegallysmooth]

Your new MCAT score and a good performance should at least net a number of interviews. My only concern, though, is that I've never heard of this program that you're going to be attending (not that that necessarily means anything). Do that have a good success rate with getting applicants into medical school?

The M.S. degree is technically granted through SUNY Buffalo, and the program is a partnership with Roswell Park, which was the first comprehensive cancer institute in the country. They don't offer any stats on acceptance percentages, however, I work with a doctor who went to the program and he said everyone he knows from the program is now a doctor. The director of the career center at UR referred to the program as a post-bacc, although the degree could lead to PhD programs or research positions.

So you've probably not heard of it since it's not a cut-and-dry post-bacc at a Tier 1 school, but I have faith in this one 🙂

 

[ChubbyChaser]

I think you will still be less competitive than a traditional applicant witha 34 and 3.7

 

[Perrotfish]

So you've probably not heard of it since it's not a cut-and-dry post-bacc at a Tier 1 school, but I have faith in this one

In that case, yeah, I'm pretty sure that with a 34 and a 3.7 you'll be a medical student at the end of the program.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. You were very helpful. I know it's silly to be like "I'm getting a 3.7+ for sure!" but at the same time I have gotten As in sciences courses and I know what it takes. I'm just in that state of mind and I know it's very important.

In researching schools to begin putting together a draft list, I think I'm going to consider myself equivalent to an undergrad with a 3.5 and 34. Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

from what I understand they will still look at your UG gpa more closely...but im sure theSMP will help....I think to eer on the safeside you should consider yourself somewhere around an average matriculant.

 

[Perrotfish]

In researching schools to begin putting together a draft list, I think I'm going to consider myself equivalent to an undergrad with a 3.5 and 34. Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

I'm not sure there's going to be a statistical equivalent to your situation. I would guess that you will be considered be better than a 3.5 and a 34 for lower tier schools, and worse than a 3.5 and a 34 for higher tier schools. Just apply broadly. Any ADCOM help here? LizzyM?

 

[Dane07MD]

Strong performance in an SMP proves you are a risk free applicant for medical caliber curricula. However, the grades do not factor into your u-grad GPA, and that is what is reported to U.S. News, and subsequently the ranking system. Some schools are hung up on those rankings and have admitted to only basing selection on undergrad grades. I am a soon to be SMP graduate from Georgetown and have found that the program has helped me get more interviews than the year before. Truthfully, your UG gpa will preclude you from getting into any top 25 schools most likely, so apply smart. 3.7 is a decent GPA, but shoot for a 4.0, it's not out of reach. The MCAT is strong though, congrats on doing so well.

 

[Pedsbro]

from what I understand they will still look at your UG gpa more closely...but im sure theSMP will help....I think to eer on the safeside you should consider yourself somewhere around an average matriculant.

Actually, I happen to know first hand...straight from the mouth of a Dean of Admissions that some schools will primarily look at the SMP grades (wish I could have gotten specifics on that...). Certainly not all I'm sure, and I think the other poster is right about the top-tier schools...I wouldn't apply to very many of those, because they are big on all-around numbers (i.e. ugrad gpa is all that gets reported on MSAR and US News).

 

[searun]

It really is like plastic surgery, rhinoplasty. When you are finished with the program, close the bathroom door, take a deep breath, look in the mirror, and ask yourself, "Do I feel pretty?" If you feel pretty, then apply. If your nose still looks like crap, then go into finance. No one cares about your nose in finance.

 

[notdeadyet]

In researching schools to begin putting together a draft list, I think I'm going to consider myself equivalent to an undergrad with a 3.5 and 34. Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

Like Perrotfish recommended, apply broadly.

SMP's are nice, but they don't completely wash away anyone's undergraduate performance. So to top end schools, given the choice between someone who nailed it right the first time and someone who needed a second chance, odds are pretty good they'll side with the person who got it right the first time.

I think with a 3.7 and a 34 MCAT you'll have lots of opportunities for med school. But with a 3.21 undergrad GPA, it will be hard to predict where. Apply broadly.

 

[nick_carraway]

Strong performance in an SMP proves you are a risk free applicant for medical caliber curricula. However, the grades do not factor into your u-grad GPA, and that is what is reported to U.S. News, and subsequently the ranking system. Some schools are hung up on those rankings and have admitted to only basing selection on undergrad grades. I am a soon to be SMP graduate from Georgetown and have found that the program has helped me get more interviews than the year before. Truthfully, your UG gpa will preclude you from getting into any top 25 schools most likely, so apply smart. 3.7 is a decent GPA, but shoot for a 4.0, it's not out of reach. The MCAT is strong though, congrats on doing so well.

Did more interviews = more admissions?

As someone who's deferring Georgetown's SMP for a year, I keep hearing ppl are getting more interviews but I haven't heard how many of those interviews pay off.

 

[DrJD]

Strong performance in an SMP proves you are a risk free applicant for medical caliber curricula. However, the grades do not factor into your u-grad GPA, and that is what is reported to U.S. News, and subsequently the ranking system. Some schools are hung up on those rankings and have admitted to only basing selection on undergrad grades. I am a soon to be SMP graduate from Georgetown and have found that the program has helped me get more interviews than the year before. Truthfully, your UG gpa will preclude you from getting into any top 25 schools most likely, so apply smart. 3.7 is a decent GPA, but shoot for a 4.0, it's not out of reach. The MCAT is strong though, congrats on doing so well.

Hey Dane, I'm starting the Georgetown SMP this Fall so I'm currently working on my AMCAS... any suggestions based on your experience, of schools that seem to like Georgetown SMP students?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Actually, I happen to know first hand...straight from the mouth of a Dean of Admissions that some schools will primarily look at the SMP grades (wish I could have gotten specifics on that...). Certainly not all I'm sure, and I think the other poster is right about the top-tier schools...I wouldn't apply to very many of those, because they are big on all-around numbers (i.e. ugrad gpa is all that gets reported on MSAR and US News).

awesome!!...I stand corrected.

 

[malsponge]

Good luck at your SMP! Getting a 3.7 is not a walk in the park. It is like studying/school boot camp. But you will definitely be in a much better position after the SMP than before if you do well.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Actually, I happen to know first hand...straight from the mouth of a Dean of Admissions that some schools will primarily look at the SMP grades (wish I could have gotten specifics on that...). Certainly not all I'm sure, and I think the other poster is right about the top-tier schools...I wouldn't apply to very many of those, because they are big on all-around numbers (i.e. ugrad gpa is all that gets reported on MSAR and US News).

This is good advice, and a good reason to make some phone calls to schools, now is probably about the best time given they won't be receiving apps for another month or so. I've heard from an admissions director that (at that school) they look primarily at post bacc course GPA if a student has had more than a certain number of post bacc hours, it seems reasonable that other schools would look most heavily at an SMP. I don't think its fair to say that all top 25 schools would only look at undergraduate GPA unless one has recently spoken with each of the admissions offices (there are many things that COULD be true, it's your job to find out which ones ARE true)

Just like some schools average 2 sittings for an MCAT (Loyola per their office yesterday) and others consider the highest score per section (GW per their website), you'd be much more competitive at the schools that give the most weight to your strongest areas; high recent MCAT & high anticipated SMP GPA. Best of luck!

 

[mishelli]

I got into the Gtown SMP and I'm giving it a lot of consideration. My biggest concern is that the program highly encourages students to apply this coming season. However I just applied the 2007-2008 season and I feel like I shot myself in the foot because I've been continually updating schools throughout the year. As a reapplicant they will want to see change between application cycles, but if the only thing that has changed is my acceptance to the SMP...I'm afraid that they'll receive my app and say, "oh, she's doing an SMP. It'll be interesting to see how she does...let's put her application aside until Jan, when we can see some grades."

I completely understand why they would do that, too - adcoms have to admit me based on my performance. My question then is, does that make applying while in the SMP program a total washout?

I'd love to hear back from some SMP-grads about how your experiences have been like!

 

[wizenedone]

I got into the Gtown SMP and I'm giving it a lot of consideration. My biggest concern is that the program highly encourages students to apply this coming season. However I just applied the 2007-2008 season and I feel like I shot myself in the foot because I've been continually updating schools throughout the year. As a reapplicant they will want to see change between application cycles, but if the only thing that has changed is my acceptance to the SMP...I'm afraid that they'll receive my app and say, "oh, she's doing an SMP. It'll be interesting to see how she does...let's put her application aside until Jan, when we can see some grades."

I completely understand why they would do that, too - adcoms have to admit me based on my performance. My question then is, does that make applying while in the SMP program a total washout?

I'd love to hear back from some SMP-grads about how your experiences have been like!

Hey, what were your stats if you dont mind sharing? I am also considering Gtown SMP.

 

[Pedsbro]

I got into the Gtown SMP and I'm giving it a lot of consideration. My biggest concern is that the program highly encourages students to apply this coming season. However I just applied the 2007-2008 season and I feel like I shot myself in the foot because I've been continually updating schools throughout the year. As a reapplicant they will want to see change between application cycles, but if the only thing that has changed is my acceptance to the SMP...I'm afraid that they'll receive my app and say, "oh, she's doing an SMP. It'll be interesting to see how she does...let's put her application aside until Jan, when we can see some grades."

I completely understand why they would do that, too - adcoms have to admit me based on my performance. My question then is, does that make applying while in the SMP program a total washout?

I'd love to hear back from some SMP-grads about how your experiences have been like!

I rejected Gtown SMP and went to the Cincinnati SMP because of that exact reason. Cincy gives you the choice of when to apply. Had I applied during my time in this SMP, which I'm still completing, I would have had nothing to put on the last AMCAS other than my subpar undergrad grades. Several students in my program did try applying while in it and had mixed results...some got in, some got waitlisted, some got outright rejected. Most of us waited and I don't regret it. If you don't do well during your first set of exams or whatever, that update letter won't look too hot. But if you wait, then you have almost a whole year's worth of coursework and more time to bring up the GPA in case you bombed for your first block of exams. Most of the other SMPs give you a choice...Gtown was the only major SMP that didn't when I looked.

 

[MacMD1334]

What does SMP stand for?

 

[mishelli]

Special Master's Program. It's a post-bac for people wanting to improve their chances at getting into med school. Programs vary widely on what their program offers, requirements, the types kinds of classes they teach, etc. For instance, tufts: thesis required, Gtown: you take classes with med students, Loyola: a lot of advising/rec letter help

 

[nick_carraway]

I got into the Gtown SMP and I'm giving it a lot of consideration. My biggest concern is that the program highly encourages students to apply this coming season. However I just applied the 2007-2008 season and I feel like I shot myself in the foot because I've been continually updating schools throughout the year. As a reapplicant they will want to see change between application cycles, but if the only thing that has changed is my acceptance to the SMP...I'm afraid that they'll receive my app and say, "oh, she's doing an SMP. It'll be interesting to see how she does...let's put her application aside until Jan, when we can see some grades."

I completely understand why they would do that, too - adcoms have to admit me based on my performance. My question then is, does that make applying while in the SMP program a total washout?

I'd love to hear back from some SMP-grads about how your experiences have been like!

Right. That's a big issue I had with Georgetown, too. I just didn't understand their thinking on the issue. Their reasoning continually amounted to [1] trust us, we've been doing this for a while [2] we send out update letters & tell schools to wait [3] you only get an advantage at Georgetown Med if you apply your SMP year.

Needless to say, the first reason wasn't very reassuring, the second reason was mentioned as something schools didn't even care about when I called to ask, and the third reason isn't too appealing for me. Georgetown costs an arm & a leg and requires an insane SMP GPA to get the advantage anyway.

I decided to defer Georgetown and do an informal post-bacc first. That way, I'll have at least 1 year of new grades that will improve *hopefully* the uGPA before even starting Georgetown. That way I can apply while in the program with an already improved application.

The problem is that 1 app year + 1 post-bacc year + 1 SMP year means I only get one more shot of applying due to the MCAT. If I don't get in while at Georgetown, I might have to rethink things.

 

[nick_carraway]

I rejected Gtown SMP and went to the Cincinnati SMP because of that exact reason. Cincy gives you the choice of when to apply. Had I applied during my time in this SMP, which I'm still completing, I would have had nothing to put on the last AMCAS other than my subpar undergrad grades. Several students in my program did try applying while in it and had mixed results...some got in, some got waitlisted, some got outright rejected. Most of us waited and I don't regret it. If you don't do well during your first set of exams or whatever, that update letter won't look too hot. But if you wait, then you have almost a whole year's worth of coursework and more time to bring up the GPA in case you bombed for your first block of exams. Most of the other SMPs give you a choice...Gtown was the only major SMP that didn't when I looked.

Georgetown will give you the choice. They make it sound like you don't, but in e-mails with them, they seemed understanding and said that the decision was ultimately mine.

They do push for you to try during the program, however.

 

[Pedsbro]

Georgetown will give you the choice. They make it sound like you don't, but in e-mails with them, they seemed understanding and said that the decision was ultimately mine.

They do push for you to try during the program, however.

Well that's definitely a new policy this year then, since I specifically rejected Gtown because I was told the opposite by them when I was applying. Even so, I don't need a school pushing me in a direction I don't want to go in. None of the other major SMPs force you or even push you to apply while in the program...it's a silly policy, but I'm sure it helps keep their # of apps in check too. I do agree their program is built to get you into G-town's med school only and they actually reserve spots for some of the their SMP grads.

Also, someone mentioned earlier about the differences among SMPs. Keep in mind several programs offer all three of those examples...taking actual med classes, required thesis, and advising/interview help. I know the program I'm in offers all 3... Most of them require some sort of thesis (exception: Drexel's 1 year program is a certificate...to get a masters degree you need to stay an extra year and complete a thesis).

 

[mishelli]

Thanks guys for all your input! This decision is really weighing heavily on my mind. Sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off taking the year to work full-time (pay of loans, etc) while taking a couple more upper level science classes to beef up my science gpa.

Hey, what were your stats if you dont mind sharing? I am also considering Gtown SMP.

I have a 3.42 science/3.49 overall and a 33Q.

Also, someone mentioned earlier about the differences among SMPs. Keep in mind several programs offer all three of those examples...taking actual med classes, required thesis, and advising/interview help. I know the program I'm in offers all 3... Most of them require some sort of thesis (exception: Drexel's 1 year program is a certificate...to get a masters degree you need to stay an extra year and complete a thesis).

I knew about the advising help and the thesis, but I didn't know that there were others where you take actual med classes. Which ones are those, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[beachblonde]

OP: If you do well, it's a safe bet that you will eventually have success in getting into med school. If you do poorly, consider yourself screwed.

And, keep in mind: one dean told me that "anything less than a 4.0 in an SMP is unacceptable." So you might find some hostility along the way if you drop below that. Just fyi.

 

[mishelli]

And, keep in mind: one dean told me that "anything less than a 4.0 in an SMP is unacceptable." So you might find some hostility along the way if you drop below that. Just fyi.

is that the case even if you're taking classes with med students? that's hard to imagine

 

[mistrygirl]

OP: If you do well, it's a safe bet that you will eventually have success in getting into med school. If you do poorly, consider yourself screwed.

And, keep in mind: one dean told me that "anything less than a 4.0 in an SMP is unacceptable." So you might find some hostility along the way if you drop below that. Just fyi.

I am currently in the Drexel IMS program and I also have friends in the Georgetown SMP program. These programs involve taking medical school classes and tests. I've taken 29 credits of medical school classes this year and it's not easy. There are very few people who get 4.0s in these programs. On the other hand, it is possible to do well and pull 3.5-3.8 if you work very, very hard and study your butt off. And many people in my class have gotten into MD and DO schools. I can't see any medical school expecting nothing less than a 4.0 in essentially what is the first year of medical school. That's insane...

Good luck!

 

[mishelli]

I am currently in the Drexel IMS program and I also have friends in the Georgetown SMP program. These programs involve taking medical school classes and tests. I've taken 29 credits of medical school classes this year and it's not easy. There are very few people who get 4.0s in these programs. On the other hand, it is possible to do well and pull 3.5-3.8 if you work very, very hard and study your butt off. And many people in my class have gotten into MD and DO schools. I can't see any medical school expecting nothing less than a 4.0 in essentially what is the first year of medical school. That's insane...

Good luck!

Did you or your classmates find that the application process interferes a lot with school? Particularly if you're doing a lot of flying for interviews, etc?

 

[mistrygirl]

You have to try to get a real head start on the application process before starting the program, but I have a friend who applied to almost 30 schools this year and handled doing secondaries just fine.

And with Drexel, all of the classes are recorded and online so I don't actually go to class anyways. 🙂 But for our one mandatory discussion class as long as you let them know you're going to be out on an interview, they understand.

 

[starrynight85]

I am currently in the Drexel IMS program and I also have friends in the Georgetown SMP program. These programs involve taking medical school classes and tests. I've taken 29 credits of medical school classes this year and it's not easy. There are very few people who get 4.0s in these programs. On the other hand, it is possible to do well and pull 3.5-3.8 if you work very, very hard and study your butt off. And many people in my class have gotten into MD and DO schools. I can't see any medical school expecting nothing less than a 4.0 in essentially what is the first year of medical school. That's insane...

Good luck!

I'm in the Drexel program with you and I was told that at several interviews. In fact, I was told that my less than 4.0 GPA was considered to be a poor performance.

The reality is, the standards to get in are always harder than getting out.

(and where did that 29 credit number come from? dude, it's 33.)

 

[mishelli]

I'm in the Drexel program with you and I was told that at several interviews. In fact, I was told that my less than 4.0 GPA was considered to be a poor performance.

The reality is, the standards to get in are always harder than getting out.

(and where did that 29 credit number come from? dude, it's 33.)

Wow. That's a bit intimidating.

Did anyone you know take the time off to work (while simultaneously taking a couple more upper level science classes to beef up their science gpa) as opposed to doing a formal program? That's what I'm thinking of doing. Obviously, I'll probably do better in my courses because it won't be as heavy of a courseload. In my defense, I don't have 35-40k for a SMP program and I'd much rather get a research or clinically relevant job and start paying back my ugrad loans....

 

[RoadRunner17]

Wow. That's a bit intimidating.

Did anyone you know take the time off to work (while simultaneously taking a couple more upper level science classes to beef up their science gpa) as opposed to doing a formal program? That's what I'm thinking of doing. Obviously, I'll probably do better in my courses because it won't be as heavy of a courseload. In my defense, I don't have 35-40k for a SMP program and I'd much rather get a research or clinically relevant job and start paying back my ugrad loans....

With your stats, which you said were "3.42 science/3.49 overall and a 33Q", I would consider going for post-baccalaureate work. You can get both relevant GPA numbers above 3.5, while working and getting more clinical exposure. Basically, the SMP is a money sinkhole and you don't get as much opportunity to improve the other aspects of your application besides your GPA.

 

[mishelli]

Thanks roadrunner17, I've been leaning in that direction but it's reassuring to know that other people think it's my best option as well.

 

[mistrygirl]

I'm in the Drexel program with you and I was told that at several interviews. In fact, I was told that my less than 4.0 GPA was considered to be a poor performance.

The reality is, the standards to get in are always harder than getting out.

(and where did that 29 credit number come from? dude, it's 33.)

Haha my bad...it looks like I can't add either 😕

But really though, when did being an above average student become not good enough?? Getting a 3.0 in the program would mean that you are doing just as well in those classes as an average first year medical student. So shouldn't that mean that you would be a good candidate with say a 3.2 and above because that means you would have done well in their first year class? Applying to medical school seems to be the most difficult part....

 

[Pedsbro]

OP: If you do well, it's a safe bet that you will eventually have success in getting into med school. If you do poorly, consider yourself screwed.

And, keep in mind: one dean told me that "anything less than a 4.0 in an SMP is unacceptable." So you might find some hostility along the way if you drop below that. Just fyi.

That is horribly misleading. One dean, or even a couple deans, doesn't make this universally true, and it's not. You need a pretty good GPA in an SMP, but you do NOT have to have a 4.0. I am currently in one and have talked to deans who told me otherwise....so I guess believe who you want, but common sense will tell most people that a 4.0 is not required in an SMP for it to be useful. Nobody in my current SMP class has a 4.0, and of the 10 or so people who applied this year while in the program, I believe at least 6 are accepted at various schools, and 3 others are on waitlists at multiple schools... Results speak for themselves.

Earlier question about which SMPs allow you to take actual med courses with the med students, I know for sure Cincinnati, Drexel, and Gtown's do. I believe Boston's does also, but not 100% sure. Tufts and Loyola's do NOT. It's been awhile since I applied to those, but each SMP's website will tell you, so do a little research.

 

[nick_carraway]

of the 10 or so people who applied this year while in the program, I believe at least 6 are accepted at various schools, and 3 others are on waitlists at multiple schools... Results speak for themselves.

That's a lot more reassuring than your earlier post that said very few people chose to apply while enrolled in the SMP and that their results were mixed with acceptances, waitlists, and rejections. This breakdown makes me a little less anxious about my eventual chances.

 

[Pedsbro]

That's a lot more reassuring than your earlier post that said very few people chose to apply while enrolled in the SMP and that their results were mixed with acceptances, waitlists, and rejections. This breakdown makes me a little less anxious about my eventual chances.

Well the results are still mixed... Regarding the people who applied while in the program: the majority got accepted and/or waitlisted, but a few also got outright rejected (no interviews, or even secondaries in some cases). I had said several people applied this year, but a majority in my program decided to wait, for many reasons. If your ugrad record is very weak, like mine was, applying while in the program (in essence, sending in AMCAS before an SMP even starts in August), is a huge risk. All the med schools would see is the ugrad record and the promise of doing well in an SMP. Some schools want update letters after every test, some will just put your app on the bottom until they get concrete grades, which may not be til December or later depending on the SMP. If you get caught off guard and bomb your first set of exams and they demand an update letter on how you did...doesn't look good. If you wait, you have the rest of the year to make up for that.

Whereas now, I have 3 quarters worth of medical and graduate coursework to show them and I don't have to worry about juggling studying for those med courses and filling out secondaries and/or leaving for interviews (which I probably wouldn't have gotten considering my ugrad record). The latter is still a problem even if you have a good ugrad record and want to apply while in the SMP...time is scarce. Obviously some people were successful, so there's a case to be made for waiting or applying right away. It's a bigger risk, but arguably a bigger reward.

 

[starrynight85]

Haha my bad...it looks like I can't add either 😕

But really though, when did being an above average student become not good enough?? Getting a 3.0 in the program would mean that you are doing just as well in those classes as an average first year medical student. So shouldn't that mean that you would be a good candidate with say a 3.2 and above because that means you would have done well in their first year class? Applying to medical school seems to be the most difficult part....

I get what you're saying, but med schools so often don't see it that way. Hell, even DUCOM didn't take hardly any students from the IMS program-including ones who had near-perfect GPAs. Hell, they rejected one student I know of who had a 3.8 in the program and a 37S. There just seems to be this reluctance among med schools to accept students who have blips in their academic past, even if they show that they've overcome that. Clearly, screwing up (ever, in your life) is not looked upon favorably.

I think that frankly, a 3.0 in an SMP is perfectly acceptable; it means that you're doing better than half of the med students. But I guess med schools are just too picky to accept that fact.

 

[RoadRunner17]

I get what you're saying, but med schools so often don't see it that way. Hell, even DUCOM didn't take hardly any students from the IMS program-including ones who had near-perfect GPAs. Hell, they rejected one student I know of who had a 3.8 in the program and a 37S. There just seems to be this reluctance among med schools to accept students who have blips in their academic past, even if they show that they've overcome that. Clearly, screwing up (ever, in your life) is not looked upon favorably.

I think that frankly, a 3.0 in an SMP is perfectly acceptable; it means that you're doing better than half of the med students. But I guess med schools are just too picky to accept that fact.

You have an applicant with a 3.3 cGPA and a 37 MCAT with a 3.8 SMP GPA, and a similar applicant with a 3.7 cGPA and 37 MCAT. The guy with a longer track record of academic achievements will make it. That's just how it works because of the sheer numbers of qualified applicants out there. Just my 2 cents