How do Australian doctors stack up?

[ErynD]

I am an American considering attending an Australian University for medical school. I was just wondering what criticisms or beneficial things you have to say about Australian doctors, as compared to American doctors.

I understand that all that is need to be a doctor is a compassion and drive, but I am trying to measure which location would give me more knowledge in order to give back to my patients.

Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MD1088]

Hi, I have lived most of my life between US and Australia. I was educated at an Aussie school and am doing residency in the US. There are probably more similarities than differences when comparing the two. "My" gross generalizations: Aussie doctors are much better with clinical management, much less likely to order heaps of tests/imaging, more cost conscious, less arrogant, but probably have a less sophisticated understanding of medical science. American doctors are arrogant, money focused, helpless without an extensive laboratory/radiological workup in making decisions but have more knowledge of esoteric factoids, they are infintely more serious. I actually think both of these types exist in both places. As for where to go to school, consider cost, where you want to live, the "easier" path of Australian schools. You dont spend twenty hours on the wards as a third year there, you spend about four. However, if you want to be a posterior leaflet aortic valvutologist I would proabably stay in the states.

 

[craig_rt]

I would also add that it depends on where you want to practice.

If you want to practice in the US, go to a US school. It will trainin you to work in that system, prepare you for the USMLE, give you contacts etc.

If you want to practice in Australia, come to a school here. Otherwise it becomes a bit more difficult (not impossible) to return to the US for training or to practice.

 

[megaluna]

im thinking about applying to australian med schools in addition to us med schools (im a dual citizen, and it would save me a lot of money), but im worried that it will be harder to get a residency position in the us. does anyone know where i can find any research or stats or personal stories on this issue?

thanks!

 

[driedcaribou]

However, if you want to be a posterior leaflet aortic valvutologist I would proabably stay in the states.

So, so true.

Excellent post.

 

[driedcaribou]

im thinking about applying to australian med schools in addition to us med schools (im a dual citizen, and it would save me a lot of money), but im worried that it will be harder to get a residency position in the us. does anyone know where i can find any research or stats or personal stories on this issue?

thanks!

That's like this entire forum mate.

Scan the threads and then ask a specific question.

 

[MD1088]

you'll get a residency no problem. As an IMG you'll find certain specialties extremely competitive. They're going to be competitive no matter what school you go to but make no mistakes - you will be more competitive in applying to a US program coming from a US allopathic school, how much so depends on lots of factors; scores, background, interview, US LOR's, etc. About a third of SDN attends this issue. No way to quantify. Pass your boards first shot, get the mean or above, wear a tie and smile, you'll have your pick of good academic residencies in primary care (Int Med, Surg, OG, Peds, FP/GP), and an outside chance at lesser known programs in more competitive things like ER, Gas, Rads. The currently "ultra-competitive" specilaites, like Derm, ENT, Plastics are going to be a long shot. Again, a long shot from anywhere. Competitiveness will vary hugely from year to year. Remember too that many specialities are post IM/GS fellowships, particularly the medicine ones.

Another point on the original post. Aussie doctors are different because in my experience they were generally nicer and more colleageal. Not all of them, but some of them. During my third year surgery block, I was in a AAA repair and cross clamped the aorta, and the guy coded and died. I felt just awful. The surgeon said afterward "get your gear mate". He knew it was a weird experience for me. He took me out, bought me a nice steak dinner and got me drunk. Totally unlikely and perhaps even irresponsible by US standards. For me, it was a profound experience in learning and the fraternity/sorority of physicianhood.

 

[driedcaribou]

Totally unlikely and perhaps even irresponsible by US standards. For me, it was a profound experience in learning and the fraternity/sorority of physicianhood.

Perhaps one can attribute the difference in attitude to the difference in workload and debt. Americans come out with $200,000 + in debt and work much longer hours for little pay during training.

Australians come out with maybe $50,000 of debt (if even) and a more humane lifestyle.

 

[Jatpot]

I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. I'm a US citizen who decided to go to school in Sydney for the experience but also b/c I applied to 3 (yes only 3 total) schools in Chicago, and the best I got was an interview/waitlist. I guess I thought if I had to go to a less than stellar school in Chicago, or leave Chicago for school, I might as well leave the country!

There are days that I fully regret that decision. Especially when I see my friends at those 'less than stellar' schools (that I KNOW I would've been accepted to given my scores/application), still living in Chicago and having no trouble with residency apps, and I'm about to get on a plane and leave my family, fiance, friends, and baseball season behind for what seems like the millionth time.

My education has been different than it would've been at a US school (duh), and it does show on my home rotations (at least so far). I am lazy when it comes to proactive studying at times, and have always done well in school b/c exams/competition has forced me to work hard. A US program that taught towards the USMLE and forced me to remember minute factoids for the sole purpose of regurgitating them during pimp sessions with US clinicians would've been an ideal learning environment for me. I'm certain my Step I score would've been much better, although it wasn't bad. But that's my weaknesses and my personal learning style. Someone w/a stronger work ethic can do very well on Step I coming from my program, I've seen it.

It is harder to get a residency spot, no doubt. When I started school I wanted to do peds (not competitive), now I want to do surgery (competitive), and it's looking like a tough road. One that undoubtedly would be easier if I was a US grad. BUT, when I match in gen sx, I am confident that I will still be a fantastic surgeon having graduated from Sydney. I'll have to spend more nights reviewing my anatomy, but my early clinical exposure and theater time might put me ahead of US students in other aspects.

All that being said, I have LOVED my time in Sydney and think most doctors down there are amazing. I've said countless times that if I could move their medical system/culture to the US I would stay in a heartbeat. But it's too far from home, and I didn't realize how much of a Chicago girl I was until I left. If next year I match into a gen surg program in the US and eventually get back to Chicago to practice, it will have been a better experience than staying in the states. If my medical career ends up suffering b/c my residency app isn't as strong as it would've been if I had stayed in the states, then the 'awesome life experience' of living abroad for 4 years might not quite make up for it.

My 2 cents.

PS--what up dried caribou when you get back to Oz? If you're around Feb 23-24 and want to help out at the trauma conference let me know.

 

[leorl]

Another point on the original post. Aussie doctors are different because in my experience they were generally nicer and more colleageal. Not all of them, but some of them. During my third year surgery block, I was in a AAA repair and cross clamped the aorta, and the guy coded and died. I felt just awful. The surgeon said afterward "get your gear mate". He knew it was a weird experience for me. He took me out, bought me a nice steak dinner and got me drunk. Totally unlikely and perhaps even irresponsible by US standards. For me, it was a profound experience in learning and the fraternity/sorority of physicianhood.

Awwww dude, that's awesome (not about the guy dying, but the surgeon's response). Friends of mine who did electives in Australia have just loved it...people bending over backwards to help them out, letting them borrow their cars, etc. I'd love to work in Oz for awhile. And would be considering it for next year too if they hadn't brought in the rule change and required the exam for all non-aussies. I'm not taking any more frickin exams!

 

[nwhilk]

Perhaps one can attribute the difference in attitude to the difference in workload and debt. Americans come out with $200,000 + in debt and work much longer hours for little pay during training.

Australians come out with maybe $50,000 of debt (if even) and a more humane lifestyle.

Of coruse Americans studying in Oz come out with $200,000 of debt AND work longer hours for little pay during training (assuming they go back to the US). Sigh.

And if they stayed, they could have a more humane lifestyle, but still have $200,000 in debt, which for them would be harder to pay back, as at least from what I understand, though please correct me if I'm wrong, doctors in Oz generally tend to make a lot less than doctors in the USA?

But all that said, there are still good reasons to go to Oz to be a doctor, depending on the person and her or his situation.

 

[driedcaribou]

doctors in Oz generally tend to make a lot less than doctors in the USA?

But all that said, there are still good reasons to go to Oz to be a doctor, depending on the person and her or his situation.

Doctors on average anywhere in the world make less than US doctors however, the potential to make more than the average US doctor exists in almost any country in the world.

If you like what you do, are willing to work hard, and combine it with some business sense, it doesn't matter where you are.

I am not sure if Aussie doctors actually make less than US doctors b/c Aussie doctors can go private.... going private is how patients are ripped off and how doctors make a lot of money. You cannot find accurate figures on how much Aussie doctors make published online. From what I know here and there, I think the average figures are numerically similar to the US except for a few specialties.


jatpot: I'm still out of town. Have fun at the conference.

 

[markdc]

D You cannot find accurate figures on how much Aussie doctors make published online. From what I know here and there, I think the average figures are numerically similar to the US except for a few specialties.

That is true. However it is also true that it is really hard to compare salaries from the different countries even if they did post stats. The US is pretty much all private so the way accounting will occur shall make the numbers look different than say Canada where things are all public and there is less room to fiddle with the books. Australia would be further confusing since it has both public and private.

When comparing Australia to Canada/US you also have to look at the longer training times before being licensed.

Then there is the vacation and hours/week worked issue. Lifestyle may come out fairly high in Australia when you consider the last factor. It would be nice if such stats were recorded and compared somewhere.

I hate to sound like everyone else but in the end I think you have to figure out what you like the best about medicine and try to get on that training program. You also have to choose the country you want to live in based on where you want to live. Thinking about money too much just seems to mess up the process. Unfortunately that is hard for some of us to do since we have massive loans to pay back...