how do i ask this MD for a rec letter?

[gatorade848]

I shadowed a surgeon for 3 weeks for like 10 hours each day but this was during summer of 09 and we havent communicated since. I really want to ask him for a rec letter but I am not sure he remembers me/how to go about asking him politely. should I send him a "I am applying med school this summer thanks for the experience" email and ask him for a rec letter when he replies, or just do everything in one email?

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[NickNaylor]

Say something along the lines of: "would you mind writing a letter of recommendation for medical school for me?"

I wouldn't get a LOR from someone you spent three days with, though. What could they possibly say?

 

[gatorade848]

actually it was 3 weeks 5 days per week and 10 hours per day. it wasnt just 3 days lol

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

I shadowed a surgeon for 3 weeks for like 10 hours each day but this was during summer of 09 and we havent communicated since. I really want to ask him for a rec letter but I am not sure he remembers me/how to go about asking him politely. should I send him a "I am applying med school this summer thanks for the experience" email and ask him for a rec letter when he replies, or just do everything in one email?

Just ask him up front. Lay it out with the whole "my name is blah blah blah and I shadowed you [insert time period]....I am applying to medical school "blahb labh albha"...and "I was wondering if it would be possible for you to write a strong letter of recommendation in support of my application to medical school".

Emphasize that it's a "strong letter" you're asking for...etc. It sounds like you spent 15 days x 10 hours each=150 hours?

 

[gatorade848]

yea it was around 150 hours

 

[dank204]

You shadowed him for 150 hours and you think he doesn't remember you?

Am I missing something?

 

[apumic]

actually it was 3 weeks 5 days per week and 10 hours per day. it wasnt just 3 days lol

So....150 hrs over several weeks, which isn't really that much (to put things in perspective, this would be like asking your employer to write you a letter of rec before you even finish your orientation, much less pass your probationary period evaluation). Further, it was shadowing. He's not going to have much of value to add. In all seriousness, find someone who can actually add something of value to your application. The moment a reviewer reads, "gatorade shadowed me for 3 weeks," that letter will likely go into the trash and hilarity shall ensue. Get a letter from someone who can attest to your strengths, weaknesses, etc. This person should have known you and worked with you for an absolute minimum of 3-6 mos (and more likely 1-2 yrs). A doc you've shadowed can't speak to much more than your ability to walk in a straight line, show up on time, and, perhaps (if he was observant while eating in the doctor's lounge), whether or not you're a messy eater. Now if those 3 things sound like things you want talked about in your LOR, be my guest and ask...

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

You shadowed him for 150 hours and you think he doesn't remember you?

Am I missing something?

Maybe he "literally shadowed him"..by walking in the doctor's shadow...I'm KIDDING. I can understand...doctors sometimes see so many people they may NOT remember everyone.

 

[apumic]

You shadowed him for 150 hours and you think he doesn't remember you?

Am I missing something?

Yeah, the fact that the OP was following him. It's not like he actually did anything useful for the guy. Sure, he's probably remembered...as "another useless premed," but it's highly unlikely the surgeon has anything of value to offer...especially after 2 years.

 

[gravitywave]

truthfully it doesn't even sound like it's worth asking. that letter is circular file city.

 

[blehm98]

yeah i remember people i've met once, there is no way he could have spent 3 weeks with someone shadowing him and not remember them, especially when it's only a couple years ago

 

[TallScrubs]

So....150 hrs over several weeks, which isn't really that much (to put things in perspective, this would be like asking your employer to write you a letter of rec before you even finish your orientation, much less pass your probationary period evaluation). Further, it was shadowing. He's not going to have much of value to add. In all seriousness, find someone who can actually add something of value to your application. The moment a reviewer reads, "gatorade shadowed me for 3 weeks," that letter will likely go into the trash and hilarity shall ensue. Get a letter from someone who can attest to your strengths, weaknesses, etc. This person should have known you and worked with you for an absolute minimum of 3-6 mos (and more likely 1-2 yrs). A doc you've shadowed can't speak to much more than your ability to walk in a straight line, show up on time, and, perhaps (if he was observant while eating in the doctor's lounge), whether or not you're a messy eater. Now if those 3 things sound like things you want talked about in your LOR, be my guest and ask...

Yeah, the fact that the OP was following him. It's not like he actually did anything useful for the guy. Sure, he's probably remembered...as "another useless premed," but it's highly unlikely the surgeon has anything of value to offer...especially after 2 years.

truthfully it doesn't even sound like it's worth asking. that letter is circular file city.

I feel like this is all terrible advice, no offense. Do you think adcoms seriously expect every single applicant to shadow a single doctor for 1-2 years? Perhaps they don't know all of your strengths and weaknesses, but, the letter shows you've had experience in the field. If he remembers you, get the letter, plain and simple.

 

[apumic]

I feel like this is all terrible advice, no offense. Do you think adcoms seriously expect every single applicant to shadow a single doctor for 1-2 years? Perhaps they don't know all of your strengths and weaknesses, but, the letter shows you've had experience in the field. If he remembers you, get the letter, plain and simple.

Umm... no. I'd guess GW agrees w/ me that people you've shadowed probably aren't good people to have recommend you for medical school.

Also, shadowing is not "experience in the field." It's "watching someone else have experience in the field." In other words, it's only slightly better than watching Grey's Anatomy (which is absolutely worthless). Sure, shadowing is often looked upon as a requirement but we're really talking about 40-60 hrs max spread amongst a variety of docs. The fact that you are stuck on this "shadow 1-2 yrs" thing tells me you're completely missing the point.

If you want an MD's recommendation, work with one. That may be clinical experience (free clinic, scribe, EMS, etc.) or some other volunteer work where a doc happens to be. Shadowing 1, 2, or 10 yrs w/ the same doc makes zero difference. Now if you're scribing, that's a different story. As a scribe, the doc sees things he can comment on (e.g., your bedside manner when the pt talks to you; your organizational skills; your listening; your speed and ability to think on your feet; your willingness to go out of your way to assist others; etc.). As a shadow, however, you have ZERO responsibility. You are less useful than the mop in the closet when it comes to patient care.

Do you honestly think a doc you shadowed for a few weeks can give such a frank and fair assessment of you to a med school that it would separate you from the rest of the pack? Even if the doc wrote a stellar letter, don't you think the school would consider it with a VERY large grain of salt when the reviewer reads the "about the writer" section of the LOR (i.e., the part where the writer states his/her relationship to you and qualifications for recommending you)? In other words, a letter from a doc you shadowed is something for the shredder. It is far more valuable as kindling for a campfire than it is as an LOR.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't know of any allopathic school that requests a LOR from a physician (please inform me of any you know of). For the most part, those I've seen from physicians who were shadowed are relatively worthless.... they tell me that the applicant was clean and neatly dressed, polite to the staff, attentive, cheerful.

If you are going to ask the doc for a letter do so in writing and append your transcript and a list of the activities you've engaged in. The smart ones will make an assessment of your record and praise you to high heavens for it. That's also useless but a little sweeter than "had nice posture and a pleasant personality".

 

[WhizoMD]

^ I haven't heard of medical schools that require them, but my premed committee requires one (used to be two) before they'll write a committee letter.

 

[Torr]

I don't know of any allopathic school that requests a LOR from a physician (please inform me of any you know of).

Yea, I don't think you are required to have an MD letter as far as I know. I included one only because I knew the doc for many years and she made it clear she wanted to write something for me when I applied.

I think it comes down to what the rest of your letters will look like and how many you have. Most programs require at least 3 (or a committee letter).

Focus on getting STRONG letters from 2 science faculty and 1 non-science letter or someone who knows your work either academically or outside of the classroom such as volunteer work etc.

It sounds like this MD letter runs the risk of being low quality and won't make you competitive. If you're not desperate, don't ask for it. Go out and find some meaningful projects to be a part of, put in the hours and make real connections with people that can speak to your work ethic and character.

I agree that shadowing isn't the best way. Find clinical volunteer or internship opportunities instead.

 

[kmnguyen1124]

OP: If I were you I'd call up the physician you shadowed to ask him to write you a letter AND email him a copy of your resume after you've cleared it with him. I had a physician I shadowed write a letter for me, and by coincidence, one of my interviewers at a school happened to be an attending who worked with my letter writer when he was chief resident at that particular school. So, while the letter might not have been the the best LOR you could get, it was worth it at that one school and certainly worth a five minute phone call.

 

[gravitywave]

I feel like this is all terrible advice, no offense. Do you think adcoms seriously expect every single applicant to shadow a single doctor for 1-2 years? Perhaps they don't know all of your strengths and weaknesses, but, the letter shows you've had experience in the field. If he remembers you, get the letter, plain and simple.

of course not. i was saying that the OP would be better served to go out and get better letters, as opposed to stressing about whether and how to ask for this one. People should be getting their LORs from professors and work/volunteer supervisors; these are the high value letters that adcoms pay attention to. A letter from a doc almost never has anything useful to say.

there is a difference between experience in clinical work/volunteering and shadowing, and adcoms know what that difference is. do you?

 

[gatorade848]

I already have a rec letter from my orgo professor, genetics professor, an internship supervisor, and another MD who was a family friend I shadowed and have known me for years. I am also in the process of getting a rec letter from my summer research supervisor; all of which will be combined into a committee letter by my school's premed advisor. I know this MD letter may be redundant but he is the head of surgery at my instate school i really want to go... and since we spent a lot of time together during the shadowing experience i thought maybe he could give me some sort of advantage like kmnguyen1124 says...

 

[Naquadria]

USUHS requires one from a clinical supervisor which can include a doctor you shadowed. That is what I ended up using. When I volunteered at the hospital my supervisor may or may not have even seen me for any given shift. So I ended up asking a peditrician I had shadowed.

The letter probably won't hurt you right? So why not ask?

 

[apumic]

I already have a rec letter from my orgo professor, genetics professor, an internship supervisor, and another MD who was a family friend I shadowed and have known me for years. I am also in the process of getting a rec letter from my summer research supervisor; all of which will be combined into a committee letter by my school's premed advisor. I know this MD letter may be redundant but he is the head of surgery at my instate school i really want to go... and since we spent a lot of time together during the shadowing experience i thought maybe he could give me some sort of advantage like kmnguyen1124 says...

A phone call to the adcom of his own school from the head of surgery you shadowed might be valuable. A letter probably would not be as valuable.

 

[LizzyM]

Letters from family friends are useless. It doesn't matter if they are a full professor and chairman of a department at the medical school. Worthless! Any legit letter begins with "how I know the applicant and for how long" and if it starts out with, "I've know gatorade848 for 20 years as he was in my daughter's preschool class and we've been family friends ever since."

Right there we know that the letter is going to be biased to the point of worthlessness.

Best one I ever saw was from a surgeon who wrote that he had known the applicant for a few years because he was his daughter's boyfriend. He added that he hoped that some day the young man would be his son-in-law. Now, that might see like saying that he is a gentleman of upstanding moral character and so forth but it seemed far too self-serving to be attempting to get one's future son-in-law into medical school.

 

[texahn]

character and so forth but it seemed far too self-serving to be attempting to get one's future son-in-law into medical school.

haha thats actually a pretty funny idea

 

[TallScrubs]

Umm... no. I'd guess GW agrees w/ me that people you've shadowed probably aren't good people to have recommend you for medical school.

Also, shadowing is not "experience in the field." It's "watching someone else have experience in the field." In other words, it's only slightly better than watching Grey's Anatomy (which is absolutely worthless). Sure, shadowing is often looked upon as a requirement but we're really talking about 40-60 hrs max spread amongst a variety of docs. The fact that you are stuck on this "shadow 1-2 yrs" thing tells me you're completely missing the point.

If you want an MD's recommendation, work with one. That may be clinical experience (free clinic, scribe, EMS, etc.) or some other volunteer work where a doc happens to be. Shadowing 1, 2, or 10 yrs w/ the same doc makes zero difference. Now if you're scribing, that's a different story. As a scribe, the doc sees things he can comment on (e.g., your bedside manner when the pt talks to you; your organizational skills; your listening; your speed and ability to think on your feet; your willingness to go out of your way to assist others; etc.). As a shadow, however, you have ZERO responsibility. You are less useful than the mop in the closet when it comes to patient care.

Do you honestly think a doc you shadowed for a few weeks can give such a frank and fair assessment of you to a med school that it would separate you from the rest of the pack? Even if the doc wrote a stellar letter, don't you think the school would consider it with a VERY large grain of salt when the reviewer reads the "about the writer" section of the LOR (i.e., the part where the writer states his/her relationship to you and qualifications for recommending you)? In other words, a letter from a doc you shadowed is something for the shredder. It is far more valuable as kindling for a campfire than it is as an LOR.

I don't know of any allopathic school that requests a LOR from a physician (please inform me of any you know of). For the most part, those I've seen from physicians who were shadowed are relatively worthless.... they tell me that the applicant was clean and neatly dressed, polite to the staff, attentive, cheerful.

If you are going to ask the doc for a letter do so in writing and append your transcript and a list of the activities you've engaged in. The smart ones will make an assessment of your record and praise you to high heavens for it. That's also useless but a little sweeter than "had nice posture and a pleasant personality".

Humble pie tastes bad. I guess I ate my words.