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I am of average or above average intelligence like most people in medical school. Is it possible to work you way to the top of the class or are the people in the top 5% naturally gifted?
Originally posted by azcomdiddy
Funny thing is all these students wil see this and say:"Yeah, I will do that as an MS-I next year." But I guarantee to you that 95% of them will stop after about 1-2 weeks as the volume increases and as they get sick of studying. The true gunners will persist.
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
So true. I don't have the stamina for it.
Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I'm not known for being shy here so I'll be the first admitted gunner to actually respond to the OP's thread.
I don't want to give my identity away so I will just say that I'm in the top 10% of my class at my school. I won't say where I rank in that 10%. I have earned nearly above 95% on almost every exam.
I wouldn't take advantage of my fellow classmates. That being said, I'm not going to go out of my way to help them either. Why should I? Why should I share my notes that I slaved for weeks rewriting? Why should I spend hours tutoring my fellow classmate because he or she decided to skip lecture and go out during the week. I'm sorry but basic sciences isn't about team work. Working on the wards involves teamwork and getting along with your fellow students. But it's not my responsibilty to see that my friend in class gets the same grade I do.
There isn't a secret to doing well in medical school. Like others have already mentioned, if you want to be at the top of you class, study all the time and stay on top of your schedule as much as you can.
Everyone in medical school figures out pretty quickly what they need to do to be at the top of their class. Most of the students realize it isn't worth gunning for every exam. They want to have a balanced life or they aren't trying to match for an ultra competitive residency like me. Others simply lack the stamina to study long hours on a consistent basis. That is the secret to being a gunner: stamina. It's all about stamina. This is pretty much what I do.
1. Read lecture beforehand
2. ATTEND class and take notes
3. Rewrite my notes or summarize. (Don't spend too much time doing this)
4. Memorizing
5. Re-read and repeat as many times as possible.
Funny thing is all these students wil see this and say:"Yeah, I will do that as an MS-I next year." But I guarantee to you that 95% of them will stop after about 1-2 weeks as the volume increases and as they get sick of studying. The true gunners will persist.
Also, another trick is befriend gunner classmates. You need friends who are as ambitious as you are so you can meet in groups to review material.
As far as hours studied, I would say 55 hours a week including weekends. You need to train your body to persist on 5-6 hours of sleep. I attend lecture so that takes away studying during the day. But if you actually pay attention in class and know what's going, that is like studying. I study from 7 PM to about 1-2 AM on weekdays. I study about 9-10 hours on Saturday and Sunday.
Originally posted by ice_23
I actually respect someone who says something like this. He (or she) is being real and not hiding anything.
I was wondering one thing though, for you azcom, do you not at all go out? You study for 20 hours on the weekend, so I presume that you don't go out, but I suppose it does leave time for socializing. But do you not socialize at all, or do you fit it in (somehow) that crazy schedule of yours?
-ice
Originally posted by subtlewonder
I think people mixed up the term gunner with being a hard worker. The term gunner was originally used to describe someone that is so ruthless that they try to maliciously bring down others. During World War II a gunner was a person whose job was to shoot down airplanes with guns.
Originally posted by BiggMann79
That is one funny website. The pathetic thing is that they claim being a gunner is a good thing because you will have the knowledge to help your patients (which I agree with), but then they just turn it into an ego thing. This is not a direct quote but it was something like "you will be the doctor everyone wants to go to because you will know it all." They talk about the patient yet they have a stupid website that is basically a shrine to themselves and their thoughts on medical school. They even think they can sell some stupid t-shirts that quotes a buddy of theirs. Then are we supposed to be impressed with the fact that they rode a roller coaster at Cedar Point? "Oh look at me, I'm hardcore, I can ride a roller coaster and flash hand signs." That website doesn't do much to help the image of gunners.
Originally posted by le fort guy
I think a lot of the gunner animosity is due to jealousy. Most gunners in real life don't rip out pages of books or hide other sources. Maybe that happens in law school but in med school, we aren't dependent upon texts. We get nice little handouts and some schools even have a transcript service on top of that so I don't see how gunners in med school could really hurt another student. Most gunners are of the closet variety and the ones who are open about their gunner status are usually just overzealous. The truth is people dislike gunners because they are the goody two shoes of grade school. They are the people who study when I party. They are the students who go to class when I'm in bed. They stay on top of things when I procrastinate. They get to know their professors as opposed never saying more than 5 words to them all semester like most students. I'm not a gunner and I'm fine with that, but I don't see why you have to hate them.
And let's also bring up another fact, anyone who graduates in the top 20% of their class is a gunner. They may try to come accross as if they are some genius who never studies. They may mock other gunners to take attention away from themselves. They would love to convey that they are laid back surfer dude who just happened to get 97% on their anatomy exam out of pure luck. It amazes that we still have these con artists in medical school.
PLEASE, the fact is that anyone who does well in medical school studies like a gunner. Now, whether they get the gunner label or not is purely based on how they sell themself. But the truth is they study as hard as any gunner in private yet downplay their studying in order to be liked.
I knew a guy just like this who matched ENT. He always downplayed his studying and pretended that all he did was drink all the time. No one just "accidentally" matches for Derm, ENT, Neurosurgery, Integrated Plastics, Radiology, Urology, Opthalmology and good programs. It amazes that people still have that grade school mentality where they lie about their studying so they can be one of the "cool" kids.
And stop with the "Gunning won't make you a better doctor" No $h!t. You think Gunners aren't aware of that? Gunners also know that if they don't gun, they won't ever match for that prestigious residency they are seeking either. They can be a nice and likable doctor after they have matched for that Derm residency. You can always change your personality later but you can't go back and change your grades.
Grow Up people and accept reality. Quit whining about gunners and start studying.
Originally posted by daelroy
How do you finish at the top of your class provided you will do whatever it takes (within legal and ethical means) to succeed.
Originally posted by Masonator
Don't throw your life away designing sharks with stethoscope logos and flashing AOA gang signs while on roller coasters. Please, for the love of God!
Originally posted by shebangs
Back to the original question... you wanna know how to succeed in med school? ...the answer is
.
.
.
Be a really really hot girl who brings donuts to morning rounds in a miniskirt. Laugh and flame as you will, but we all know girl-starved loser residents can never turn a hot girl down for honors. Why the hell do you think all Derm residents are hot chicks anyways/ Because of their SKIN?? comeon......
Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I wouldn't take advantage of my fellow classmates. That being said, I'm not going to go out of my way to help them either. Why should I? Why should I share my notes that I slaved for weeks rewriting? Why should I spend hours tutoring my fellow classmate because he or she decided to skip lecture and go out during the week. I'm sorry but basic sciences isn't about team work. Working on the wards involves teamwork and getting along with your fellow students. But it's not my responsibilty to see that my friend in class gets the same grade I do.
Originally posted by mdsiren
BiggMann is right on the ball with gunners. I know of this gunner that lives a pathetic life.
Phillips Exeter Academy for four years.. Parents paid lots of money to send him there. Astronomical SAT score. Never held a job.
MIT for four years. Thought he was going to be an engineer. Became very confused. Didn't know what to do next. Woke up one morning and decided that he wanted to be a doc. Astronomical MCAT first time taken. Never held a job.
UPenn Med school. 4 years. AOA. All honors. 260+ on USMLE.
Never held a job.
MGH residency in neurosurgery. At this time, neurosurgery was a new field and equivalent to derm now. Even got a scholarship. His first job! Don't have to depend on Dad for cash.
So, what became of this pathetic man? He is now in his early 40s. No wife, No kids, and No Life. Way to go!!!!
Does it really pay to be a gunner? Maybe, if you can balance your life.
Originally posted by mdsiren
To answer the posts, he does want a family badly. And lives a miserable life. He can't find a decent woman who can put up with his hectic work schedule and because he has never had a real relationship..
Originally posted by pikachu
. i am so sick of hearing about female medical students getting good grades just because they look hot or whatever. there are enough women residents now that if things really worked that way, hot guys (and there are SO MANY of them in med school -- yeah, right) would be raking in the A's too. Or is it possible that you guys just don't look good enough to make the grades?
goo d pointOriginally posted by pxz
Perhaps we should let young nurses evaluate male medicial students.
Originally posted by pxz
Have you ever helped any classmate in your medical school so far? I do not really like the "me aganist them" attitude. I know, you want to get the highest scores in your first two years and then be a great team member in the clinical years. You know what, if you are a gunner for a while, you are a gunner for the whole life because there are always competitions in any stage of your life.
You might think you will be done with the gunner thing after the basic science years, but wait, you need to get honors in clinical years (where the most gunners reveal themselves), you need to get the top fellowshp, you need to practice in CA/NY or AZ, you need to teach at Harvard, etc.etc. You get the picture. I mean, why should you help the fellow student so he can score well in the Shelf? Why should you help the fellow residents so he might compete with you in the fellowship application?
You are definitely a smart person and I bet your scores would suffer little if you had given you notes to some of your classmates. If anything, I wish you could give your notes to the next year's class because you will feel great when you help people, especially your colleagues.
Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I help classmates all the time. However, there are degrees to which you can help classmates. It's hypocritical to suggest that medical school and life in general doesn't involve competition. It does. Even the so called Pass/Fail schools secretly rank their students. It's foolish for someone to bust his hump and then help his lazy classmate by giving them notes he worked hard on while they slacked. That' not being generous. That's being naive, and immature. We are all adults in a professional school. I'm a very nice person but I'm also a responsible adult. I'm in no way being unfair or rude by not giving classmates my own hand written notes.
You aren't helping the other student. All you are doing is reinforcing his or her lazy habits because they will continue to try and mooch off people since they have been so successfull with it in the past. It's usually these students that complain the most about gunners and try to depict us as vicious people. These are the same students who skip class and go out 3 times a week and then come to you at the last minute for notes or "to help them study (tutor them)." If you don't help them, they will label you a gunner and try to besmirch you.
It's one thing to try and screw your classmates. I have never done that. I'm very pleasant to everyone in my class. If someone doesn't understand something, I will show them how to solve the problem. But I'm not going to share my notes or study with them = tutor them for hours before an exam.
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Originally posted by pikachu
guys -- when you can't think of anything intelligent or funny to say about gunners, try to make like shebangs, masonator, etc, and distract your reader by using sexism. You will certainly always at least succeed in looking like an idiot. i am so sick of hearing about female medical students getting good grades just because they look hot or whatever. there are enough women residents now that if things really worked that way, hot guys (and there are SO MANY of them in med school -- yeah, right) would be raking in the A's too. Or is it possible that you guys just don't look good enough to make the grades?
In this spirit, ladies, I have a new gunner technique alert: Cosmetic surgery and a $9000 Beverly Hills Hot Girl Wardrobe.
And since looks are so important, why don't you guys all come to my hospital to show off -- Hopefully I will look around at Grand Rounds in the next few months and see an auditorium filled with Jennifer Lopez, Johnny Depp and Chris Webber look-alikes!!!!!! wouldn't it be nice...
Originally posted by azcomdiddy
Gunners seem to be maligned on here. We gunners have our own perspective on things. We notice that non-gunners usually fit into a category as well. Yes, these are inaccurate stereotypes but so is depciting hardworking people as gunners. We aren't all ruthless, backstabhing people because we are ambitious. So I have created a few stereotypes of mine. Enjoy. 🙂 Which one are you?
Slackers Slackers were people who are intelligent but lazy They always studied at the last minute in college and got away with A's. Unfortunately, those habits don't pay off in medical school when they have to actually study on a consistent basis. So they end up doing okay but wished they did better. They will accuse anyone who does better than them of being a nerd or gunner with no life.
Closet Gunners They are gunners who try to appear like everyone else. If their high grade is discovered, they downplay it and suggest they are lucky. They also have that undergrad mentality of denying ever studying for an exam. They may show up to a party but they will rarely stay the entire time. They will leave and study during the day.
Hotties They are the hot women in your class that are of average intelligence. They are the one member of their sorority that didn't major in education or marketing. They weened off others throughtout college and high school. Because of the appearance, they always got better grades in lab from horny foreign TA's. No one denied them help when they sought it. Professors would spend extra time with them during office hours. Thing is they are still quite good at it. There are plenty of these types around. They will act cute and ask you questions when they haven't done $hit. Again, some horny guy will help her and she will get away with it like she always has. These are the types who match derm with a 210 Step 1 score.
Reformed Nerd - Let's not forget about the Reformed Nerd. This was a guy was a nerd in undergrad. As soon as they got into medical school, they try to fool everyone into thinking they were cool during college. They usuall finish somewhere in the middle of the class because medical school is like high school to them. They are trying to creat an identity for themselves. These students might have lived at home during college under the strict watch of their parents. You can usually identify the reformed nerd because he doesn't know how to light a cigarette or gets wasted after 2 beers, although "he has been drinking his entire life." They are usually the most vocal in the class.
Ortho-Jock-Many of these guys are gunners too but they think they are better than gunners because they are ex-athletes so that makes up somehow for the fact that they never go out now. They still think they are great athletes and talk smack like they used to run the 40's in under 4'6. These guys can be seen throwing the football on campus or competing hard in the 3 on 3 hoops tournament. They all want to go into sports medicine or ortho. The problem with these guys is that they are essentially meatheads that know a lot of anatomy. They are book smart but are absolutely devoid of culture, racial and gender sensitivity etc.
Ethnic Clique-This refers to who belongs to some ethnic group in the U.S. Ethnic women are usually in medical school because their parents were doctors and they are forcing them into medicine. Of course, they know how to interview well and so they got past the screening process. They usually enter a lifestyle field so they can be stay at home mothers and raise the kids of the ethnic doctor they marry. The ethnic men are usually gunners. They want to match into the most competitive and specialized field possible so they brag and improve the quality of their biodata. This will make them a top marriage prospect among their ethnic circle.
The Saint- These are the conservative relgious people in the class. He or she has no interest in entering a competitive specialty. They seek to enter to primary care thus their goal in school is to befriend everyone. They hate to think of medical school as having a competitive element and feel that everyone should get along. These people tend to be married and have a kid. Despite their benign demeanor, they aren't in medicine only to help people although they might imply that. And if you get too close to one of these people, they might try to convert you to their faith.
True Genius-closet gunners wish they were true geniuses. There aren't many of these in medical school but they exist. They really don't study aside from doing the initial reading. They have great memories, read fast and have an uncanny instinct for thinking outside the box. True Geniuses can be distinguished from closet gunners because true geniuses will finish at the top of their class and still enter family medicine. Although they could have matched derm, they still follow their heart as opposed to their paycheck. They aren't ambitious for the most part. They know they could enter a more competitive field but they just want to be happy and party as much as they can. The closet gunner will talk about going into primary care and then match for opthalmology in March.
So you can see, you shouldn't mock gunners because chances are you can by stereotyped as well.![]()
Originally posted by Masonator
Your view of gunning, and notesharing is very republican. "If we encourage them they are only going to get lazier". Is that how you feel about wellfare reform and handouts to the poor as well?