how do I get around being dq'd?

[aloepathic]

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Hello all

I really want to join the National Guard's ASR program (I promise it's for the right reasons, I really want to serve I just want to make sure I get to choose my specialty). Unfortunately, I have to potential roadblocks.

1) I had surgery on my shoulder my senior year of high school to correct a Bankart lesion caused by repeated sub-luxations (due to lacrosse). I have not had a problem with it since then, have full range of motion and stability, and am able to lift, play sports, and lead a normal (and active) life.

2) I was diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma when I was 14. It was a misdiagnosis (symptoms probably caused by mold in the dorms where I was staying at the time), but the doctor is a close family friend so to avoid a knock-down drag-out debate I never bother arguing with him once I figured that out and just took the prescribed inhalers home and never used them. Again, I lead an extremely active life, I run (Boston marathon 2008), lift, row, climb, and play sports with no adverse affects. I did a mock APFT today and scored above 90 on every section (100 on both 2-mile and situps).

My question is, how do I get around what appear to be two disqualifying conditions? Are there waivers? Can I appeal anything? I want to serve so bad, I'll do pretty much anything at this point.

 

[aloepathic]

Relevant regulations appear below



2-11-b. Current joint dislocation if unreduced, or history of recurrent dislocations of any major joint such as shoulder (831), hip (835), elbow (832), knee (836), ankle (837), or instability of any major joint (shoulder (718.81), elbow (718.82), hip (718.85), ankle and foot (718.87) or multiple sites (718.89)) is disqualifying. History of recurrent instability of the knee or shoulder is disqualifying.

2-11-e. Current devices, including, but not limited to silastic or titanium, implanted to correct orthopedic abnormalities(V43), are disqualifying.

2-11-f. Current or history of contusion of bone or joint; an injury of more than a minor nature that will interfere or prevent performance of military duty, or will require frequent or prolonged treatment without fracture nerve injury,
open wound, crush or dislocation, which occurred within the preceding 6 weeks (upper extremity (923), lower extremity (924), ribs and clavicle (922)) is disqualifying.

2-23-d. Asthma (493), including reactive airway disease, exercise-induced bronchospasm or asthmatic bronchitis, reliably diagnosed and symptomatic after the 13th birthday, is disqualifying. Reliable diagnostic criteria may include any of the following elements: substantiated history of cough, wheeze, chest tightness, and/or dyspnea that persists or recurs over a prolonged period of time, generally more than 12 months.

 

[psychbender]

Nearly everything is waiverable. I had a similar situation regarding what was thought to be exercise-induced asthma, but was actually just mold...and I was 9 or 10, and they still disqualified me (not supposed to for asthma before age 12). Talk with whoever your recruiter is, and get the appointments set up with whatever physicians they insist you see, and then wait to see if the glacial machine that is milmed bureaucracy clears you.

 

[DoctaJMa]

I had the same tear in my shoulder and had surgery to fix it when I was a junior in high school. I was disqualified at meps. I applied through the navy and they wouldnt pass my health wavier so I am in the process of going through the army. The recruiters looked over my health file and they are said they are "confident" I will get in. I would recommend talking to a recruiter and see what they can do for u.

 

[bobbyseal]

They only know what you tell them.

 

[Sarg's kid]

They only know what you tell them.

True that.
There's "The Truth"😡
And "The Truth"😀

If you tell them that you have problems with your rotator cuff, then you'll get the dq. If, however, you word it just like you did "Had a problem once, like 7 years ago. No problems since..." That's a different story.

I had a couple of surgeries like 10 years ago that were supposed to be dq, but I've been fine since. I explained it on the form, told them that I was healthy and problem free now and that was it. The HPSP phsyical, it didn't even come up, AT ALL. DODMERBS for USUHS, they asked like two questions and that was it. I didn't even need a waiver.

Good luck.

 

[Habeed]

On the same note, aloepathic may not realize something obvious.

Is there a record written somewhere saying that he was "diagnosed" with asthma? Yes, in one place : the archived, dusty old files of the physician he went to. Does anyone else know? Nope. What are the odds that the FBI could find this record if they were investigating him specifically like he was about to be President of the United states or a secret agent? Maybe 10%, and that's being generous. They would have to somehow figure out he'd even gone to the doctor (there's no national database of visits), go to the physician in question, get a warrant (on what evidence?), and access the files.

And then, the government would have to prove he knowingly lied on the form, which would be difficult for something that happened a decade ago and he hasn't had problems with since. Much less something that doesn't even matter : even a doctor deployed to a forward area surgical station near an actual battle has a minimal chance of needing to run somewhere. Heck, how many doctors had to break into a prolonged run during all of World War 2 or Vietnam? How often is a doctor going to be lacking access to an albuterol inhaler?

Not that they would bother, in basic training I remember our platoon was hanging out in the bay one day, and someone asked "how many of you lied about something to get in". About half the recruits raised their hands.

Are you sure you remember correctly? Maybe this happened to a close friend of yours, and you got your memories confused...

 

[notdeadyet]

Ugh. I'm not going to debate the merits of lying on someone's application to become an officer in the military. You're setting the bar pretty low for the type of officer you hope to become, but to each their own.

But there's a little dodgy advice too...

What are the odds that the FBI could find this record if they were investigating him specifically like he was about to be President of the United states or a secret agent? Maybe 10%, and that's being generous. They would have to somehow figure out he'd even gone to the doctor (there's no national database of visits), go to the physician in question, get a warrant (on what evidence?), and access the files.

If the military wanted to find old health records, I don't think it's actually as hard as you might think. When you sign your commissioning papers and fill out your security information, you sign a bunch of forms indicating that you release any and all private records to the U.S. military and give them permission to access anything they want in spite of any previously signed privacy policies. The military doesn't need a warrant. They probably don't need any additional permission at all. At most, the physician could drag his feet and ask you to sign his own forms granting access. Which the military would require you sign.

If the military has reason to believe that someone lied about their medical condition on joining (say a doctors spots what looks to be reactivation of an old injury that would be disqualifying that was not disclosed, spots old surgical scars, etc.), it would not take a "super agent" to track down old medical records. They could run your names through insurance companies to find out reimbursements to cross check which doctors you've gone to and which procedures you've had done. That's one way. There are others.

And then, the government would have to prove he knowingly lied on the form, which would be difficult for something that happened a decade ago and he hasn't had problems with since.

I wouldn't confuse the military justice system with the civilian justice system. The burden of proof would be on you. If they can show records that you had a surgery done, or a doctors chart that showed a patient was counseled for childhood asthma, it's pretty much game over unless you've got one heck of an explanation.

You can debate the odds of whether you'll get caught up in a lie or not. Everything could work out fine and they could never catch you and you could get away with it. No one knows the odds. They might be pretty good. Most people don't get caught cheating on their taxes either.

Or you could be good to your word and apply for waivers. You'll be surprised what they'll waive. It'll delay you, but you won't have two things hanging over your head. 1) that you lied to get in to the military. 2) that your lie could get caught up at any time and you could have an ugly discharge follow you around for the rest of your life. And having your discharge be due to lying will not bode well with future employers. Honesty is incredibly important in medicine.

Try getting a waiver. Odds are good you'll get them after a few weeks or months delay. Absolute worst case scenario, you won't get the waiver. But at the end of the day, it's better to be an honest civilian than a dishonest officer, imho.

 

[Habeed]

Perhaps. From what I've actually seen, though, it's just not like you think it is. Nobody enforces rules like these. The military, and the government in general, is almost always a paper tiger. I'm not saying to lie...just that odds are 99.9% that he would get away with it if he did. That is all.

 

[drcarter77]

1) don't lie, its wrong, and its not worth the risk even if it's really low, and who knows how low it really is.

2) you can get things waived. It's a pain but its doable. I just received a waiver for a history of Stage IV Leukemia (diagnosed at age 12) that involved, 4 surgeries, radiation therapy, and chemotherapy. I had to get letters from several specialties saying I was currently perfectly healthy and my past conditions wouldn't effect future service, put I'd say if you really are currently free of problems and are able to get a doctor to put that in writing you are going to be able to get a waiver

best of luck

 

[ValeRx]

Do NOT lie about medical conditions on enlistment/commissioning. You will find out very early on in your service that anything medical can and WILL resurface. If you end up going to the BAS and it turns out you had a pre-existing condition, you will get ****ed with a fraudulent enlistment (or whatever it is called for commissioned officers).

 

[Microdoc]

I went through HPSP and am now an active duty Army staff physician. I was born with completely flat feet (many docs have said the flattest they have ever seen). The doc at the MEPPS station looked at them, asked if I ever had problems wearing boots (I truthfully said no), and asked what I was going to be in the Army- when I said a doctor he wrote something down in my file and that was it-- I got in. Now 12 years (and several marathons) later I need surgery on one of those flat feet. I never lied about anything on that MEPPS exam, but now the Army orthopods have to do surgery on my foot (complicated surgery). So who knows if they'll qualify you and if they are right or wrong. I think it depends on who is examining you that day. Just tell the truth about your health during that MEPPS exam- if they later try to med board you out for something that you clearly told them you had during that exam, you will not have to pay back your scholarship. If you lie and are caught, you are screwed.

 

[elderjack21]

If you are confident you can keep up with the physical demands of military service, and you want to be in the military, you should go ahead and sign up.

Both of my grandfathers "lied" about their age so they could go to war. Was it wrong? Yes, what was their intention? To serve their country in a time of need. I can't think of something more honorable than that. A good officer tells the truth all the time. A great officer doesn't lie, but only discloses the amount of truth necessary to get the mission done so long as it doesn't have a deleterious impact on his troops.

When I separated from the army and went back through the physical process for HPSP. I used total disclosure on all of my previous injuries. Did they care? Not a bit. Heck, the crappy physical exam that they did and review of my paperwork wouldn't have caught anything if I didn't disclose it in the first place. The military is littered with people who have some physical problem or another, good thing for us, many jobs in the military now don't require you to be a perfect physical specimen to get the job done.

Just my thoughts on the issue. If the medical issue is in the past and has resolved itself, there is no reason to beat a dead horse. Move on and serve.

If it is something that is going to hinder you or the people you serve, you should probably do something else.

 

[BrickHouseMD]

I blew my shoulder in a ski-racing accident in High School but hadn't had any problems since. I just wrote a handy little letter saying that it hasn't caused any problems and that it'd been great for 6 years and that was the end of it. I got my waiver and was on my way. Sometimes all they're looking for is you to say that you're not going to try to screw them on the back half with a request for disability on a pre-existing condition.