How do you become a cardiothoracic surgeon?

[Bluesaurus]

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5 years general + 3 year fellow ship?

I don't want to be this just asking. What about a plain thoracic surgeon?

 

[45408]

Usually a two year fellowship, although there are now some integrated CT programs that are CT all the way through, rather than doing a categorical GS program first. There are no dedicated thoracic programs that I know of - it's all through CT.

 

[Bluesaurus]

So 5 years general + a two year fellowship?

I figured it would be a little longer since (abdominal) transplant and some fellowships are 2 years mostly as well.

I wonder how many do research as well between years in GS.


ps- I've seen thoracic surgeons that don't work on the heart that are differentiated from cardiothoracic ones. Are you sure you can't pursue just being a thoracic?

 

[Alvarez13]

So 5 years general + a two year fellowship?

I figured it would be a little longer since (abdominal) transplant and some fellowships are 2 years mostly as well.

I wonder how many do research as well between years in GS.


ps- I've seen thoracic surgeons that don't work on the heart that are differentiated from cardiothoracic ones. Are you sure you can't pursue just being a thoracic?

A lot of it just depends on where you go as far as length is concerned. I've never heard of just throacic program though.

 

[km11]

I think you train in CT but can choose to just practice T

 

[Stixman28]

Usually a two year fellowship, although there are now some integrated CT programs that are CT all the way through, rather than doing a categorical GS program first. There are no dedicated thoracic programs that I know of - it's all through CT.

i saw a talk about couple weeks ago from a cardiothoracic surgeon. he said my school (http://www.umm.edu/heart/cardiothoracic_residency.htm) , along with some others have a 6 year integrated fast track program

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/residents/residenteduc/article-.html (theres a big list in the third paragraph)

doesnt really seem like 6 years, bc there are also 2 years dedicated research. But you're not learning general surgery first if i understood their explanation

 

[RapplixGmed]

Is the market for CT surgery any better than it was a few years ago? I was interested in it at some point too but was convinced otherwise by the prospects for employment.

Back when I last looked at this there were horror stories of CT people not being able to find jobs and having to retrain in other fields. A US news article reported that 12% of graduates could not find jobs in CT surgery. People who did find jobs were sometimes offered pay equivalent to primary care.

If you can trust a study published in ann thorac surg, only 65% of surveyed graduates in 2008 could find a job in CT surgery.
http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/6/1853

Is there any other field in medicine that has such a low success rate post fellowship?

If CT really is your calling, more power to you but at the moment CT surgery has the unholy combination of high stress, long training, poor compensation, and poor stability.

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/newsandviews/inmyopinion/articles/article-54.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2007-02-13-cardiac-jobs-usat_x.htm

 

[BigRedder]

I imagine it will go down until all the old guys quit and the powers that be realize that we need more.

 

[2662]

Again, the number of Baby Boomers and others (who will be getting Obamacare) will offer plenty of work for all doctors.

 

[dienekes88]

So 5 years general + a two year fellowship?

I figured it would be a little longer since (abdominal) transplant and some fellowships are 2 years mostly as well.

I wonder how many do research as well between years in GS.


ps- I've seen thoracic surgeons that don't work on the heart that are differentiated from cardiothoracic ones. Are you sure you can't pursue just being a thoracic?

Three ways:

1) traditional
5 years general surgery (possibly + 2 years research)
2-3 years cardiothoracic surgery (some are 2 year fellowships, some are 3)

2) integrated
6 years cardiothoracic surgery (some have research years)

3) fast-track
4 years general surgery (apply to cardiothoracic surgery at home institution during the first couple years)
3 years cardiothoracic surgery

There are plenty of general thoracic surgeons out there. As I understand it, these jobs are pretty competitive. They do chest wall disease (e.g. pectus excavatum), wedge resections, lobectomies, pneumonectomies, heller myotomies, esophagectomies (transhiatal, ivor-lewis), nissen fundoplications, lung transplantation, mediastinal mass resections (teratoma, thymoma, etc.), etc. They have to go through one of these routes too. There are some programs that have a heavier thoracic emphasis... and some programs that allow for extensive elective time on thoracic. Other programs are very cardiac focused.

A lot of people (but not all) who end up at the best programs do a couple years of research during Gen Surg residency.

Then there are the super fellowships...