how do you decide between counseling and clinical psych?

[PizzaButt]

Hi there,

I'm 30, married, non-trad applicant (non-psych major) who is trying to decide between clinical and counseling PhD programs to apply to.

I understand the basic difference between them: that clinical psychologists work with more severe pathologies than counseling psychologists.

But beyond that, is there a difference? Is there a difference in pay? Can counseling psychologists still do neuropsychology and health psychology or can only clinicals do that?

Is one more "prestigious" or "accepted" than the other? Is it easier to get jobs as a clinical psychologist? Do you have more opportunities in general as a clinical psychologist--i.e. can a clinical psychologist do everything that a counseling one can, but not vice versa?

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[irish80122]

I think most would argue that clinical may be considered the more prestigious, but really it doesn't matter. I think it just depends on what suits you better. I personally believe that it may be a little easier to get a job as a clinical psychologist and you can do a bit more, but then again I have yet to be in the real world. I would just go with whatever fits your interests best. If you are focused on severe psychopathology, go clinical. If you are more interested in depression and anxiety, counseling may be the better option. Another question is where you want to work. Clinical is oftentimes viewed as more medical in nature and you end up in more health-related environments whereas counseling psychologists who aren't academics often end up in university counseling centers (as therapists, no worries) and things of that nature.

I hope that helps some but unfortunately a lot of it is just my perception since, once again, I haven't been in the "real world."

 

[Ollie123]

What Irish said. Honestly, I just looked at people's research and everyone who matched my research interests was in the clinical field.

I think GENERALLY speaking, counseling folks are more into treatment-outcome type research, and generally work with less severe clients. That was unfortunate for me since I'm primarily interested in working with people who maintain full functionality despite psychiatric illness, but alas my interest in psychphysiology sort of ruled out counseling psych for me. I didn't find a single person in a counseling department doing any of the hardcore neuro/physio stuff.

 

[spyspy]

Come on, do some googling....

http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_73.asp

I don't necessarily agree with all of the responses so far...what I would suggest doing is deciding what your ultimate research interests are and find where the professors who study that area are. Are they at clinical programs or counseling ones? Since you want a strong match, that may be the way to go.

 

[Cosmo 23]

And please search old threads...there are lots of threads on this topic. Counseling psych programs typically attract more non-traditional students while clinical psych programs typically attract the 21 and 22 year olds.

Also, people who haven't yet been out in the real world shouldn't comment on what goes on there when you are self admittedly speculating. (E.g., there is no such thing as a "licensed clinical psychologist", as you mentioned in another thread...there are licensed psychologists.)

I agree with the previous poster. Determine your research interests and apply to the programs that suit you.

good luck!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

There have been some good discussions on here, so definitely check them out. Personally, I didn't even consider counseling programs when I was looking; I didn't realize they were another route to licensure. My areas of interest are much more rooted on the clinical side, so I probably would have stuck with clinical programs anyway.

-t

 

[irish80122]

Also, people who haven't yet been out in the real world shouldn't comment on what goes on there when you are self admittedly speculating.

I don't know if this is directed at me (it has that feel) though I have never mentioned a "licensed clinical psychologist." Cosmo, if we stuck to that, nothing would ever happen on these boards. We don't have enough people who can speak from authority on these issues, but we do have enough people who know the answers and can help, and those people should help. However, I think it is important that they do admit their shortcomings like I did with not having been in the "real world" just so the OP knows to take my words with a grain of salt.

SDN is great because there are a lot of people here who genuinely try to help others. We shouldn't discourage that because if we do there will be almost nothing left here. Look through any thread and count how many people you see talking from what they know in the "real world" and I think you will see what I mean.

Anyway, long story short, please don't shoot down people for trying to help others, especially when they mention their shortcomings. If that continues to happen here, perhaps SDN isn't the place for me.

 

[Cosmo 23]

Oh goodness, sorry for any hurt feelings. No ill will intended.

To the original poster - I was admitted to both clinical and counseling programs and weighed the same decision, with many of the same concerns about prestige, flexibility, etc. I don't agree with some of the previous posts in terms of generalizations comparing the two fields. From what I've seen among the NYC programs I'm familiar with, differences are very program/school dependent. I think the Insider's Guide is the best resource I've seen.

Also, for what it's worth, my personal conclusion after looking high and low for good resources comparing the differences between the programs (in terms of APPIC match stats, intership sites, same licensure in all 50 states, training, career opps, pay, etc.) is that the derth of information indicates that there truly are very few significant differences that will impact you. One caveat is that I agree you are more marketable to be faculty in a clinical psych program if you possess a clincial PhD and more marketable to a counseling psych program if you have a counseling psych PhD but that's pretty obvious, no? Further, I think a PhD in either is significantly more marketable that a PsyD when it comes to working in academia.

Good luck and do research the old threads on this topic, as I and others have shared more in depth opinions (and some facts thrown in too) about the differences between the disciplines.

 

[misskatie]

I applied to both counseling & clinical programs, and I was accepted to both. I have chosen (or, I'm 99.999999999% sure, since I haven't made it official yet) the counseling program at Colorado State over clinical programs. I am very interested in clinical practice, and CSU will provide me with more opportunities (ie, a HUGE amount of clinical practicum hours in quality settings) than any of the clinical programs I looked into. CSU is also ranked second, out of both clinical AND counseling programs, for placing students in their first-choice internships, which says a lot about their clinical training. Further, the schedule of courses at CSU is exactly the same as the courses offered by any of the clinical programs, except that CSU's counseling program also offers training in vocational psych.

If you can't tell, I'm very excited about CSU. & I don't want to turn this reply into me raving about my future institution, so...

I would strongly suggest looking into specific counseling psych programs. I would also suggest looking for counseling psych programs housed in psych departments. The vast majority are housed in education departments, while a very small number (only 8 or 9, I believe) are found in psych departments. From what I saw while researching programs, it seems that the counseling programs housed in departments of psych were more hybrid programs, mixing elements from both clinical & counseling. I do not mean to suggest that those housed in education departments are less valuable (for instance, Boston College's counseling psych program is within their deparment of ed, and it is currenly ranked #1 for research output amoung counseling programs), but I do think these programs lend themselves to the "less pathological" and "less medical in nature" stereotypes. There, of course, is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as that is what many people are looking for. However, if you are looking to work with more pathological issues or in a medical setting, I wouldn't automatically discount counseling programs. For instance, to go back to CSU, the program at CSU has many ties within medical settings.

As far as prestige goes, it may be true that clinical programs are seen as more prestigious. But what does that mean? I suppose its meaning is relative, depending on what is important to you. I do not think it is true that a counseling program will limit your choices for careers, and it does not appear that there is anything clinical psychologists can do that counseling psychologists can't. In the end, they are both licensed psychologists who will work with the populations they chose to specialize in.

Bottom line? Do your research. Find programs, regardless of title, that fit your interests and ambitions. That's what's most significant.

 

[irish80122]

Thank you for your response Cosmo. No worries, I am not hurt on this side of the debate. I just needed to see your arguments so I knew where you disagreed. I felt that just discrediting my post without saying why left a lot to be desired, but I can now understand where you are coming from and I think what you say is valuable.

The differences may be school dependent and I agree that the insider's guide is an excellent resources. I disagree that they are basically the same, I think that can be true in some cases and not others and it just depends on the research you hope to do. If you want to study depression, they both would work. If you wanted to study shizophrenia, a clinical degree may be more appropriate. However, if you wanted to study the impact of losing a parent on a person, a counseling degree may be more applicable. There are differences, and I think which is better depends on the research you do. They do seem very similar in other ways, but that is the big difference I see.

I agree with what you said about being more marketable in your specialty (clinical or counseling). However, this is something that people should consider if they are going into academics because there are a lot more clinical programs than counseling and I believe it is trending that way. For instance, my undergraduate institution is in the process of converting from counseling to clinical. It may be an isolated occurance, but it is happening.

Thanks again Cosmo for your responses via PM and your response here, it is good to see where you are coming from.

 

[irish80122]

As far as prestige, which MissKatie mentioned, I think most people do view Clinical as being more prestigious. However, I don't think that it makes a difference in the long-run, your research is what counts and to produce good research you need good training. Hence, focus more on the training you will receive and less on the prestige of the program. Just my $.02.

BTW, I am glad to hear that you are thinking of going to CSU MissKatie. I really don't think you will be disappointed, they have a great program!

 

[manic monday]

i personally applied to both clinical and counseling programs and got into both...theoretically, however, i am more oriented to the counseling perspective. from my personal experience in a counseling MA program, i find the counseling pscyh perspective to be more developmental in nature, with an increased emphasis on the impact of multi-systemic factors (e.g., social, economic, political, cultural) on individual functioning. many counseling programs also strongly emphasize diversity and social justice issues. as i am interested in ultimately developing family-based interventions within low-income communities, counseling programs seemed to offer me the most opportunities to gain experience in this arena. and i personally don't think clinical programs are any more presitigious, rather, i think they are just more ubiquitous. just because there are more or people have heard more about them does not by any means make clinical programs better. however, as people have said, if you are interested in pursuing a career in academia (within a clinical psych program), you may have an easier time obtaining a position with a degree in clinical psych. however, at both my undergrad and graduate institutions, there were professors with degrees from both types of programs.

 

[Cosmo 23]

manic monday...
clap clap clap!!
Well said.