How do you double apply in two specialties if one of them has an early match?

[Falciform]

How is it supposed to work if you want to apply to residency in two specialties, one that has an early match (urology or ophthalmology) and one with a regular match? Say you're applying in urology and general surgery. Urology match day arrives, and you match. But there are some top general surgery programs that you would prefer over the urology program you matched at. If you remain in the regular match, then you will have matched at 2 programs. Isn't that a match violation?

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[Doctor Strange]

You are removed from the regular match if you early match.

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[Falciform]

You are removed from the regular match if you early match.

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Are you sure? A student from my school did this, matched in the early match, remained in the regular match, matched again, and will be a resident at the regular match program.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Are you sure? A student from my school did this, matched in the early match, remained in the regular match, matched again, and will be a resident at the regular match program.

The Match is a binding agreement. The rules on the SF Match site state that:

"I understand that I cannot avoid accepting an appointment to which I have been matched without a written release from the applicable program. I also understand that another program cannot offer a position to me unless I have this release. I understand that releases are not automatic and my actions may be challenged."

The other early matches have similar rules. You're going to have to have a damn good reason to get the program to release you from your match.

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[Ismet]

Are you sure? A student from my school did this, matched in the early match, remained in the regular match, matched again, and will be a resident at the regular match program.

The student is lying or you're not getting the whole story.

Specialties like ophthalmology match early (SF match) but they are advanced positions (aka they start in PGY2). So people applying ophtho need to also apply to a prelim or transitional year for the regular match so they have a PGY1 year. Maybe that's what your friend was referring to.

 

[Falciform]

The student is lying or you're not getting the whole story.

Specialties like ophthalmology match early (SF match) but they are advanced positions (aka they start in PGY2). So people applying ophtho need to also apply to a prelim or transitional year for the regular match so they have a PGY1 year. Maybe that's what your friend was referring to.

Nope, the program from the regular match wasn't a transitional/prelim year, it was an actual (multi-year) program.

 

[DrBowtie]

Nope, the program from the regular match wasn't a transitional/prelim year, it was an actual (multi-year) program.

Proof required. Otherwise my money is on didn't really match in the early match.

 

[Ismet]

Nope, the program from the regular match wasn't a transitional/prelim year, it was an actual (multi-year) program.

Then he's lying and didn't match in the early match.

 

[Falciform]

Proof required. Otherwise my money is on didn't really match in the early match.

I've seen proof of the regular match. For the early match, I didn't see proof, just heard about it (from him and separately from another person). Also heard that he was unhappy with the results of the early match (good program but undesirable location). I'm not sure why he would lie (to multiple people) about matching early at a program he didn't like.

You are removed from the regular match if you early match.

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If you match in an early match, are you *automatically* withdrawn from the regular match? Or is that on the honor system?

 

[Doctor Strange]

I've seen proof of the regular match. For the early match, I didn't see proof, just heard about it (from him and separately from another person). Also heard that he was unhappy with the results of the early match (good program but undesirable location). I'm not sure why he would lie (to multiple people) about matching early at a program he didn't like.



If you match in an early match, are you *automatically* withdrawn from the regular match? Or is that on the honor system?

I'm not sure how it's technically done, but your first match precludes you from going anywhere else. Like I said above, any match is a binding agreement. If you matched uro first, then you're bound to that uro program regardless of what happens in the March Match.

Your friend probably lied to save face for not matching at all (to the early match). It's not that hard to imagine.

 

[Ismet]

I've seen proof of the regular match. For the early match, I didn't see proof, just heard about it (from him and separately from another person). Also heard that he was unhappy with the results of the early match (good program but undesirable location). I'm not sure why he would lie (to multiple people) about matching early at a program he didn't like.



If you match in an early match, are you *automatically* withdrawn from the regular match? Or is that on the honor system?

"Applicants who match through the OMP or AUA Match or who obtain post-Match positions in Ophthalmology or Urology MUST remove all but preliminary (PGY-1) programs from their NRMP rank order lists prior to the NRMP Rank Order List Certification Deadline, and the preliminary-year programs should be placed on the applicant’s primary rank order list."

"Failure to abide by these policies could result in a match to a concurrent-year position and lead to a violation investigation and the levying of sanctions."
Participating in Early Matches |

So it sounds like it's on the applicant to change their ROL after matching in SF or AUA match. If he is actually telling the truth, he may be in for a rude awakening when he finds that his NRMP match is null, as the SF or AUA match prevails, and could be facing some penalties from the NRMP.

Matching in a undesirable location for ophtho or urology is still a match in ophtho or urology. Very coveted positions given the competitiveness of those fields. He had a specific lie because no one would believe him if he was happy with his early match and still chose to throw that away for another field in the regular match.

 

[Falciform]

"Applicants who match through the OMP or AUA Match or who obtain post-Match positions in Ophthalmology or Urology MUST remove all but preliminary (PGY-1) programs from their NRMP rank order lists prior to the NRMP Rank Order List Certification Deadline, and the preliminary-year programs should be placed on the applicant’s primary rank order list."

"Failure to abide by these policies could result in a match to a concurrent-year position and lead to a violation investigation and the levying of sanctions."
Participating in Early Matches |

So it sounds like it's on the applicant to change their ROL after matching in SF or AUA match. If he is actually telling the truth, he may be in for a rude awakening when he finds that his NRMP match is null, as the SF or AUA match prevails, and could be facing some penalties from the NRMP.

Matching in a undesirable location for ophtho or urology is still a match in ophtho or urology. Very coveted positions given the competitiveness of those fields. He had a specific lie because no one would believe him if he was happy with his early match and still chose to throw that away for another field in the regular match.

It's unfortunate that it's on the applicant to change the ROL.

If he's actually telling the truth, I'm wondering if he could slip through the cracks despite the match violation and get away with it. I'm imaging this scenario:
- matches in early match
- doesn't change ROL, and matches in regular match
- writes to early match program with some excuse (family emergency, maybe?) why he has to withdraw from that program
- begins regular match program

The early match program got screwed over, because now they have an empty slot and even SOAP is over. But I assume they'd be more worried about rushing to find someone to fill that empty slot, than about verifying that the person who dropped out did so for a legitimate reason.

 

[Doctor Strange]

It's unfortunate that it's on the applicant to change the ROL.

If he's actually telling the truth, I'm wondering if he could slip through the cracks despite the match violation and get away with it. I'm imaging this scenario:
- matches in early match
- doesn't change ROL, and matches in regular match
- writes to early match program with some excuse (family emergency, maybe?) why he has to withdraw from that program
- begins regular match program

The early match program got screwed over, because now they have an empty slot and even SOAP is over. But I assume they'd be more worried about rushing to find someone to fill that empty slot, than about verifying that the person who dropped out did so for a legitimate reason.

This would be grounds for immediate dismissal and would be found out fairly easily. Multiple governing bodies know about all of your matches, namely your school, who will report anything like this to the NRMP so fast you won't get a chance to walk across the stage to grab your diploma.

Trying to game the match is probably one of the dumbest things you can do.

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[Falciform]

This would be grounds for immediate dismissal and would be found out fairly easily. Multiple governing bodies know about all of your matches, namely your school, who will report anything like this to the NRMP so fast you won't get a chance to walk across the stage to grab your diploma.

I'm not so sure it's in your school's best interests to report it. Why would they want to cause a potential scandal casting themselves and one of their students in a bad light?

 

[Doctor Strange]

I'm not so sure it's in your school's best interests to report it. Why would they want to cause a potential scandal casting themselves and one of their students in a bad light?

Because those are the rules. We follow rules. Schools will only protect you to an extent. A match violation is not something they'll defend you from; it makes them too liable if things fallout in the future.

I don't even know why we're still talking about this. For all intents and purposes, if you early match, you must withdrawal from any categorical match that occurs later regardless of where you matched. It is a match violation if you don't, and there are serious repercussions (including dismissal) if you eff with the match rules.

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[DrBowtie]

I'm not so sure it's in your school's best interests to report it. Why would they want to cause a potential scandal casting themselves and one of their students in a bad light?

Because the school will throw the student under the bus to avoid catching heat and getting future students "blackballed".

 

[Ismet]

It's unfortunate that it's on the applicant to change the ROL.

If he's actually telling the truth, I'm wondering if he could slip through the cracks despite the match violation and get away with it. I'm imaging this scenario:
- matches in early match
- doesn't change ROL, and matches in regular match
- writes to early match program with some excuse (family emergency, maybe?) why he has to withdraw from that program
- begins regular match program

The early match program got screwed over, because now they have an empty slot and even SOAP is over. But I assume they'd be more worried about rushing to find someone to fill that empty slot, than about verifying that the person who dropped out did so for a legitimate reason.

Doesn't work that way, at least there's zero possibility of him getting off that easy. Nothing like starting off your career as a physician with a massive lie and match violation.