How do you feel about someone using Adderall to score high on the MCAT?

[Saf1]

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I heard of a guy doing this, and it really bugged me. I've never tried it, but I've heard that it really tunnels your focus. He ended up pulling like a 35+, and he strongly states that he wouldn't have gotten close to that without it. It bugs me in two ways

1. Obviously the way it probably bothers most people in that it's an unfair advantage. To my understanding it makes you insanely efficient in studying, and if that's the case then pretty much anyone could do well on the test studying with the stuff for a few weeks.

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.


I dunno, it just seems terrible all around. I mean I want to be easy on the guy and say, "Well, you just try hard from here on out", but it only gets tougher from here and if you can't handle the MCAT I can't imagine handling sciences that compound on that knowledge.

 

[911 Turbo]

Using a drug that makes you focus more, and therefore become more efficient on exams, compared to other people is definitely not fair.

 

[notbobtrustme]

more power to him.

 

[SnowyRox]

It's illegal and immoral.

What more motivation do you need to not use it?

 

[notbobtrustme]

It's illegal and immoral.

What more motivation do you need to not use it?

only if you get caught.

It's no different than using nicotine or caffeine to focus.

 

[gettheleadout]

only if you get caught.

It's no different than using nicotine or caffeine to focus.

It's illegal period if one does not have a legitimate prescription. Illegal use of prescription or other drugs during the MCAT should void scores and ban the individual from future administrations, just like all the other cheaters.

 

[Desp]

It's illegal period if one does not have a legitimate prescription. Illegal use of prescription or other drugs during the MCAT should void scores and ban the individual from future administrations, just like all the other cheaters.

I completely agree, but there is no way for anyone to know that this person had taken a performance enhancing drug (el oh el).

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.

I think this is a pretty terrible argument.

 

[BABSstudent]

First, do you even think this is ethical? He is obviously cheating, which will ultimately cheat future patients. His scores do not reflect his abilities but the effectiveness of the drug.

I am an anatomy TA and if I see a person cheat, I straight up fail them without warning. Cheating to get into medical school will ultimately hurt the profession and, more importantly, the patient.

 

[gettheleadout]

I completely agree, but there is no way for anyone to know that this person had taken a performance enhancing drug (el oh el).

Yeah I realize the person would have to get caught and that's not as easy as catching a test taker with a fiber optic camera and an earpiece...

We could just drug-test all examinees upon arrival at the testing center!

Oh wait, did I just...

 

[Saf1]

lol, that'd be so crazy to see the day they start drug testing.

 

[Desp]

We could just drug-test all examinees upon arrival at the testing center!

Was waiting for someone to say that.

I've always seen Adderrall as the cheaters way to cheat without truly cheating. Even those with attention problems using it bothers me.

 

[circulus vitios]

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.

What are you even talking about?

edit: I've never used any type of performance enhancing drug like Adderall. I don't even drink coffee or soda. And I still think you're way off base.

 

[BA11]

I've never used it and absolutely do not care if others choose to do so. Their bodies, their life, their test taking strategy. Those comparing this to outright cheating are really reaching.

 

[Thego2guy]

From my "Epocrates" app on my phone:

Serious Reactions:
dependency, abuse
withdrawal if abrupt D/C (long-term use)
depression
psychosis
mania
aggressive behavior
Tourette syndrome
HTN, severe
MI
Stroke
Sudden Death (my favorite -_-)
cardiomyopathy (long-term use)
seizures
growth suppression (long-term use)
hypersensitivity rxn
anaphylaxis
angioedema
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis

Common Reactions
anorexia
insomnia
abdominal pain
headache
emotional lability
weight loss
nervousness
dry mouth
nausea/vomiting
asthenia
diarrhea
dyspepsia
dizziness
palpitations
elevated BP
tachycardia
tremor
dyskinesia
constipation
libido changes
impotence
visual disturbances
motor/phonic tic exacerbation

I think most people never even look at adverse reactions, and never consider how truly common they are. Everyone always focuses on the positive, but never considers the risks.

Personally I suffer from ridiculous anxiety, and my stomach turns itself inside out when a huge event is about to occur (ie: MCAT in a few hours). Taking adderral commonly causes adverse reactions, which certainly wouldn't help me or others. Being nervous, while having palpitations, dry mouth, a head ache, and diarrhea coupled with your natural anxiety and the "WOW-OMFG" factor of the MCAT is pretty much the worst thing that can possibly happen to you.

No thanks. I'd rather minimize my chances of crapping myself.

I think this is an important point to make about Adderral. The person taking the meds is taking an significant risk. This is frequently overlooked.

 

[Stumpyman]

If it's without a prescription, then yeah, I'm not too happy about it. If they're taking it with a prescription, then I truly don't care.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I heard of a guy doing this, and it really bugged me. I've never tried it, but I've heard that it really tunnels your focus. He ended up pulling like a 35+, and he strongly states that he wouldn't have gotten close to that without it. It bugs me in two ways

1. Obviously the way it probably bothers most people in that it's an unfair advantage. To my understanding it makes you insanely efficient in studying, and if that's the case then pretty much anyone could do well on the test studying with the stuff for a few weeks.

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.


I dunno, it just seems terrible all around. I mean I want to be easy on the guy and say, "Well, you just try hard from here on out", but it only gets tougher from here and if you can't handle the MCAT I can't imagine handling sciences that compound on that knowledge.

All though I don't agree with using anything to illegally enhance your performance on the MCAT. That statement in bold is a slippery slope my friend.

 

[mapandterritory]

Not my thing, but I'm not necessarily against the idea of medications for enhancement purposes.

 

[911 Turbo]

Not my thing, but I'm not necessarily against the idea of medications for enhancement purposes.

This isn't bioshock. What about the unlevel playing field these medications create?

 

[gettheleadout]

I've never used it and absolutely do not care if others choose to do so. Their bodies, their life, their test taking strategy. Those comparing this to outright cheating are really reaching.

According to the AAMC:

Examples of prohibited actions include, but are not limited to:

being under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs

Even if you don't buy that "illegal drugs" means anything controlled, I think the AAMC's position on this is implicit.

 

[dr zaius]

Have you guys ever used adderall? It's not some wonder drug that makes you smart. It may allow you to maintain your concentration a little longer (ie browse SDN every 15 min instead of every 10 while studying), but to think it gives as big of an advantage as you all think is greatly exaggerating its ability and downplaying what it takes to do well on the MCAT.

 

[thelullaby99]

Did I just see a picture of worms?? Eeeew! 🙁

I had this one guy in my mcat class who asked if anyone is going to use adderall for taking the test. Lost my respect right there and then. If you're going to use it for no legitimate medical reason, what's going to stop you from taking it everytime you take a test (med school exams, usmle, etc.)?

 

[mapandterritory]

This isn't bioshock. What about the unlevel playing field these medications creates?

I am not too keen on the idea with the way things are right now. The idea of the MCAT is meritocratic in the sense that the most qualified people should be taken in first for certain positions. It would not be a level playing field at all (and it still isn't), as not all people would have access to those things. However, I'm not completely against the idea of using future technologies for enhancement purposes. Some people reject the idea, saying that it would diminish the value of hard work, even though others on the other side of the spectrum believe it would give people more capabilities. What I care about is who has access to them and who doesn't.

 

[Ironmandoc]

It's illegal and immoral.

What more motivation do you need to not use it?

It isn't illegal. It's a controlled substance. Get your facts straight. Immoral? Ha.

 

[Sophocles]

Your a big fat jerk if you do it and that's all I have to say about that...😱

 

[JackShephard MD]

Few articles that may be of interest:

NYT: Risky Rise of the Good-Grade Pill
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/education/seeking-academic-edge-teenagers-abuse-stimulants.html?hp

Faking ADHD gets you into Harvard:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/25/faking-adhd-gets-you-into-harvard.html

 

[MedPR]

Sure it's illegal, but there is no data (correct me if I'm wrong) proving that adderall improves academic performance.

Therefore, it's not "cheating" to eat an adderall before, during, or after your studying or MCAT exam day.

 

[Ironmandoc]

Every time the word adderral has been used in this stupid discussion, you can substitute "corrective lenses" and the argument is the exact same. How about lets not show your jealousy for those of us who score in the mid-30s...that's all this is. Some guy is pissy because he can't get that score and needs a scape goat.

Btw I wear corrective lenses...never used adderral

 

[JackShephard MD]

Sure it's illegal, but there is no data (correct me if I'm wrong) proving that adderall improves academic performance.

Really? lol. Adderall is prescribed because it improves academic performance.

Every time the word adderral has been used in this stupid discussion, you can substitute "corrective lenses" and the argument is the exact same. How about lets not show your jealousy for those of us who score in the mid-30s...that's all this is. Some guy is pissy because he can't get that score and needs a scape goat.

Btw I wear corrective lenses...never used adderral

Hmm. I don't know if that makes sense. Anyway, I think it is a fair concern and is not always jealousy driven.

 

[MedPR]

Really? lol. Adderall is prescribed because it improves academic performance.




Hmm. I don't know if that makes sense.

Adderall is a treatment for ADD and narcolepsy. Sure, people with ADD probably can't concentrate as well as people without ADD, but to tie that to "improving academic performance" is quite a reach.

If you truly believe it is prescribed because it improves academic performance, go to your doctor and tell him you need better grades and see if his first reaction is "ok, Adderall it is!"

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Study for MCAT high. Take MCAT high. Get high score?

 

[painterly]

I agree with thego2guy and drzaius. Adderall isn't some miracle drug that makes you smart, and with all its potential adverse reactions it doesn't even help everyone. I myself received a year's worth of refillable prescriptions for adderall after just one cursory meeting with a neurologist--and after taking it for a week, I never ended up taking it again. Adderall made me unfocused, but that's just my own internal chemistry, and it does help a lot of people. Maybe this guy who used adderall to study for/take the MCAT actually had serious ADHD, and, despite being able to get by in regular college classes, needed something to help him focus on an abnormally long, 5.5-hour exam. Even if he doesn't have ADHD, who cares? It's not like adderall relieved him of the need to study for the test. He had to work for that score, just like everyone else. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[NightGod]

I am not too keen on the idea with the way things are right now. The idea of the MCAT is meritocratic in the sense that the most qualified people should be taken in first for certain positions. It would not be a level playing field at all (and it still isn't), as not all people would have access to those things. However, I'm not completely against the idea of using future technologies for enhancement purposes. Some people reject the idea, saying that it would diminish the value of hard work, even though others on the other side of the spectrum believe it would give people more capabilities. What I care about is who has access to them and who doesn't.

If any of those people have ever used Google, they've already invalidated their own arguement 😉

 

[neurotroph]

Adderall isn't some miracle drug that makes you smart. There are much more worse ways to "cheat." Is using it in that way morally questionable? Certainly. But what's more concerning to me are the possible adverse health effects. Either way, I wouldn't do it.

I agree with thego2guy and drzaius. Adderall isn't some miracle drug that makes you smart,

Get out of my head.

 

[MedPR]

Study for MCAT high. Take MCAT high. Get high score?

It often makes you focus way too intently on things and can make time go by really fast if you're not careful. On an exam focused a lot with timing, I wouldn't risk it unless you've done specific tests with and without it under time constraints.

So all you addy users out there, get your scientific method on and tell us the results of your practice tests.

Adderall isn't some miracle drug that makes you smart. There are much more worse ways to "cheat." Is using it in that way morally questionable? Certainly. But what's more concerning to me are the possible adverse health effects. Either way, I wouldn't do it.

+infinity.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

I know several people who have taken it, and one who was contemplating taking it for the MCAT (though I don't believe she actually did).

I personally have an awful time concentrating that long. Adderall/Ritalin do have significant effects, many of which are cognitively-enhancing. Do I think everyone should be drug tested before the test to make sure they aren't cheating? With how much they supervise the tests already, I'm surprised they don't. Then again, caffeine is also a cognitive stimulant, and I was drinking a caffeinated beverage during the exam breaks.

But the fact is, it's an illegal-without-prescription cognitive-enhancing drug, and people using it without a prescription should be voided from the test. That is the AAMC's bottom line. But is it an effective way to deter students from doing so? Absolutely not. How are you going to prevent someone from taking it before the MCAT and catching them do so without a piss test? It's just not going to happen.

It's unfair, but what are you going to do about it.

 

[MedPR]

I know several people who have taken it, and one who was contemplating taking it for the MCAT (though I don't believe she actually did).

I personally have an awful time concentrating that long. Adderall/Ritalin do have significant effects, many of which are cognitively-enhancing. Do I think everyone should be drug tested before the test to make sure they aren't cheating? With how much they supervise the tests already, I'm surprised they don't. Then again, caffeine is also a cognitive stimulant, and I was drinking a caffeinated beverage during the exam breaks.

But the fact is, it's an illegal-without-prescription cognitive-enhancing drug, and people using it without a prescription should be voided from the test. That is the AAMC's bottom line. But is it an effective way to deter students from doing so? Absolutely not. How are you going to prevent someone from taking it before the MCAT and catching them do so without a piss test? It's just not going to happen.

It's unfair, but what are you going to do about it.

It's only unfair if there is data that shows students score better with adderall than without. Just because it is commonly used to increase concentration does not automatically make it a performance enhancing drug.

 

[Praefectus]

To be honest, I would think that it would hurt more than help on a test like the MCAT. It's an applied thinking test, and adderall tends to dampen that kind of thinking. I wouldn't want to screw around on a test that you should only have to take once.

 

[AestheticGod]

These types of threads has been discussed and broken down a thousand times in SDN. Here's the bottom line in short:

-People who has access will say it's fair. Survival of the fittest, get with the program, people are just jealous, ect ect ect.
-People who does not have access will say it's unfair to the rest of the population, since they don't use it or can't use it.
-And then there's the people who says "I KNOW it's unfair, but i don't care. I do what it takes to get to the top."



As for me, i agree with the third one. I know it's cheating...but it WORKS god damn it. It helps you learn better and faster. I for one will be using it in undergrade+med school+residency, until i feel that i got everything down 100%. (I only use it during exam weeks btw).



As for the adverse health affects. Oh please, do you really think you're going to become a "zombie" like the 10% of people who use it? It's all about CONTROL, don't be an idiot and use it every single day. I've been on it for 2 years, and i use the addy maybe 3x a week. But in those 3x a week, i study for about 5x hours. Control people, same thing applies to anything you do.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

it's cheating. it's brain doping. but there's nothing you can do about it.

@MedPR, you are being obtuse

These types of threads has been discussed and broken down a thousand times in SDN. Here's the bottom line in short:

-People who has access will say it's fair. Survival of the fittest, get with the program, people are just jealous, ect ect ect.
-People who does not have access will say it's unfair to the rest of the population, since they don't use it or can't use it.
-And then there's the people who says "I KNOW it's unfair, but i don't care. I do what it takes to get to the top."



As for me, i agree with the third one. I know it's cheating...but it WORKS god damn it. It helps you learn better and faster. I for one will be using it in undergrade+med school+residency, until i feel that i got everything down 100%. (I only use it during exam weeks btw).

moral fiber ftw.

 

[MedPR]

it's cheating. it's brain doping. but there's nothing you can do about it.

@MedPR, you are being obtuse



moral fiber ftw.

If believing in the scientific method makes me obtuse, then so be it.

Catch someone using adderall and try to get them thrown out of school for cheating; not going to happen

 

[LifeTake2]

So...not very hypothetical question:

Person has been on ADD drugs for years, well before ever considering medicine, and based upon a diagnosis and with a prescription.

Is this person "cheating" or "immoral" by continuing to use the same drug through their pre-med preparation and medical school?

This is an honest question, I can see both sides of the argument for someone taking it for the purposes of the improved study/testing....but what if the medication came first?

 

[572776]

I heard of a guy doing this, and it really bugged me. I've never tried it, but I've heard that it really tunnels your focus. He ended up pulling like a 35+, and he strongly states that he wouldn't have gotten close to that without it. It bugs me in two ways

1. Obviously the way it probably bothers most people in that it's an unfair advantage. To my understanding it makes you insanely efficient in studying, and if that's the case then pretty much anyone could do well on the test studying with the stuff for a few weeks.

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.


I dunno, it just seems terrible all around. I mean I want to be easy on the guy and say, "Well, you just try hard from here on out", but it only gets tougher from here and if you can't handle the MCAT I can't imagine handling sciences that compound on that knowledge.

I had the access to adderall, but i did not use it for the mcat pretty much because of ethical reasons. It is definitely an advantage which is not available to everyone. i think that they should have analysis of urine in those testing centers so the test scores will be a more accurate representation of peoples abilities.

 

[AestheticGod]

So...not very hypothetical question:

Person has been on ADD drugs for years, well before ever considering medicine, and based upon a diagnosis and with a prescription.

Is this person "cheating" or "immoral" by continuing to use the same drug through their pre-med preparation and medical school?

This is an honest question, I can see both sides of the argument for someone taking it for the purposes of the improved study/testing....but what if the medication came first?

No, you're missing the idea of this thread. The question is regarding someone who DOESN'T have ADD, and is using it purposely to gain an advantage.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

It's only unfair if there is data that shows students score better with adderall than without. Just because it is commonly used to increase concentration does not automatically make it a performance enhancing drug.

wtf do you think a performing enhancing drug is? It increases a performance, and it's a drug. I'm pretty sure that qualifies it as a performance enhancing drug.

Next up, Steroids aren't PED's because they make your balls smaller.

As for the MCAT, it's so easy Rainman could do it

[YOUTUBE]PoendYt_ZJ0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[RogueUnicorn]

If believing in the scientific method makes me obtuse, then so be it.

Catch someone using adderall and try to get them thrown out of school for cheating; not going to happen

you can catch someone straight up plagiarizing and it's still hard for them to get thrown out of school, so i find that to be a dubious metric.

you're not acting out of believing in the scientific method, which incidentally includes the formulation of educated hypotheses. if you truly were acting as you claim, you could easily look up studies on your own, such as this one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606774

 

[235788]

more power to him.

Exactly.

Life isn't fair. If it was, tax dollars would be used to subsidize a kaplan course for everyone who can't afford one (even though we all know kaplan sux).

Take whats yours! Especially when trying to get into medicine - since the admissions process is far from "fair."

If you're white/asian... the odds are already against you. Do what you have to do.

 

[mapandterritory]

If any of those people have ever used Google, they've already invalidated their own arguement 😉

🙂

People love to jump on me when I say I'm not against the idea of enhancement drugs. There will probably be quite a few breakthroughs in our lifetime, possibly some that are much more effective (and with less adverse side effects). Banning them most likely won't do much, as it could increase the gap between the rich and poor (and countries who banned/didn't ban them). This is probably jumping a few decades but it still falls under the general idea of this thread. Humans have always used technology to improve their lives and capabilities, whether it's corrective lenses, Google, or prostheses to replace body parts. The gap between those with less resources and physical setbacks will lessen (that is, if most people can access them), but a person's abilities could also be increased with less work on their part.

 

[mairaj24]

Most people don't need the drugs. They take them anyway. Is it just me or have we become a nation that abuses medication? People can lead much more healthier life styles if they choose to. Yet they will eat all the cr@p in the world and get liposuction, or take beta blockers, or w/e they need to fix what they did to themselves. People need to start taking responsibility for what they do and stop taking the easy way out.

 

[hiyaman]

Study for MCAT high. Take MCAT high. Get high score?

sounds like a solid plan. 👍

 

[Oxygen206]

Have you guys ever used adderall? It's not some wonder drug that makes you smart. It may allow you to maintain your concentration a little longer (ie browse SDN every 15 min instead of every 10 while studying), but to think it gives as big of an advantage as you all think is greatly exaggerating its ability and downplaying what it takes to do well on the MCAT.

So correct on this one. I will admit, I have used adderall MANY times during undergrad, and I used it to study and take the MCAT. I have a prescription, and have been taking it on and off since childhood. I don't think its cheating for me, per se, but I have a ton of friends that took it without a script in college. NO it does NOT make you smarter by any means. Increased attention span =/= intelligence.

Many of the people I know who abused it would study a ton more and still do just as poorly on a test as they would without adderall. It doesn't matter how much adderall they took, they still didn't understand the information, they just spent more time obsessing over it.