How do you feel about someone using Adderall to score high on the MCAT?

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Constructive criticism is good. It allows people to learn from their mistakes with helpful advice from another person. Myuu, I saw nothing constructive about what you said. You have more experience than most people on this forum. I respect that, but if you're going to make such a statement then surely you know that for people to learn you should actually elaborate on what you said?
 
I know several people who are on Adderall. None of them have obtained it illegally.
Everyone knows what doctor to go to and what to say to get it.

I've seen the affects of adderall first hand in medical and non-medical professions.
*A girl barely making it in a sonography program pre-adderall to changing majors and now being accepted into a PA program at a major university.
*A gospel singer who post adderall is now in the studio 7 days straight recording/writing/mixing all while hopping between 3 states.

*A guy I went to school with stopped taking it and had a psychotic break. College admins had to step in and have him removed from the dorm.
*A resident stopped taking his and got all weired and paranoid. Ended up choking the **** out of his RN girlfriend in ICU in front of everybody during visiting hours.. DISMISSED ON THE SPOT!

I wouldn't take it. I *rarely* have faith in western medicine anyway. I don't trust anything that would turn me into a super nerd. I don't agree with normal people seeking out this drug and drug pushing doctors prescribing it. It is wrong but I doubt this will be addressed for many years.
 
I'd be interested to see the data on this. I don't know how, mechanistically, amphetamines would produce such an effect in the normal brain.

I would theorize that it has to do with increased average attentativeness perhaps mixed with a bit of euphoria to really get the limbic system running. The study linking it was fairly easy to find. I found it through reading an article from penn that showed that in a group of ultra high functioning students the positive effects were mostly in perception rather than reality, which is why i said they data are mixed. Im on my phone so i cant access them recently but s google search of memory and adderral should bring something up.
 
I would theorize that it has to do with increased average attentativeness perhaps mixed with a bit of euphoria to really get the limbic system running. The study linking it was fairly easy to find. I found it through reading an article from penn that showed that in a group of ultra high functioning students the positive effects were mostly in perception rather than reality, which is why i said they data are mixed. Im on my phone so i cant access them recently but s google search of memory and adderral should bring something up.

Not sure how much you know about this, but I can't say I'm particularly fond of adderall's effects other than when I need it to concentrate, but whenever I take a caffeine pill, that produces a mild euphoric effect for me. Any idea what's up with that?
 
Not sure how much you know about this, but I can't say I'm particularly fond of adderall's effects other than when I need it to concentrate, but whenever I take a caffeine pill, that produces a mild euphoric effect for me. Any idea what's up with that?

Caffeine's stimulatory effect is at least in part by its ability to decrease inhibition of excitatory neurotrasmitters. It increases levels of many of the same monoamines as amphetamines, but by a different pathway and presumably by a lesser extent at normal levels of intake.
 
The only thing it useful for academic wise is studying. I would never take it during the test because it would probably make you perform worse. However, it is useful to keep you going while studying.
 
I don't truly care. I want to stay honest to myself as much as possible; I want to be able to look back and say: I did it, and that everything I gained (or lost) was own my own merit. My only experience with this topic was that one guy in my physics class (during finals) took some adderall to help him focus. He didn't have a strong handle of the concepts and in fact I was helping him understand some concepts.
 
I wouldn't take it. I *rarely* have faith in western medicine anyway. I don't trust anything that would turn me into a super nerd. I don't agree with normal people seeking out this drug and drug pushing doctors prescribing it. It is wrong but I doubt this will be addressed for many years.

Let me briefly hijack this thread.....

What self-righteous bull crap. You rarely have faith in western medicine? Drug pushing doctors? What are you doing here in the pre-allo thread?? (if you don't mind me asking).

Have you ever had a UTI? Like, a bad one? Or what about strep throat? Or how about food poisoning requiring medical intervention to get rehydrated and stop vomiting? Basically all of those things have happened to me over the past ten years and it's not like i knew they were going to strike. One minute I'm enjoying a nice meal, discussing my lack of faith in western medicine and its drug pushing docs, and 4 hours later im sure i might be dying as i projectile vomit into a garbage bag while having raging diarrhea. For hours and then days. It's not like an "I'll take an Imodium and lay down" situation. 48 hours later it was more like i would have given my left arm to make the nausea stop. Or a UTI? Sweet jezuz is that uncomfortable and awful. Also not a "I'll take an advil and tough this out" situation. More like "holy he** please make this misery go away."

How is getting treated for ADHD any different? Are psychiatrists drug pushers now because ADHD seems less acute than other things? I just think its one thing to discuss abuse of prescription drugs by people and another to actually question the judgement of psychiatrists. It's inappropriate.

Saying you have little faith in western medicine is just.........weird. I'm tempted to suggest that you go live in a remote village in Brazil for a few years. See how you feel about western medicine after that.
 
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I don't agree with the illegal use of Adderall for the MCAT at all. It's effects vary among people, but for those that it works for, that would be such an unfair advantage. Hell, I think STUDYING for the MCAT with the drug is unfair but that's just me.

I know it might not be the case for everyone, but I seriously think people that have to abuse those drugs to be smart aren't cut out for medicine and are just going for the prestige and money.
 
Would you people disagree with an ER trauma surgeon who doesn't have ADHD taking adderall to keep him alert through the middle of the night while performing life-saving, delicate procedures? Or would you prefer a surgeon who was drowsy and prone to making mistakes?
 
Because this is somehow even remotely comparable to the MCAT? Also, there is no other option for this surgeon? He is either drowsy or on adderall? Pretty awesome logic dude.
 
Because this is somehow even remotely comparable to the MCAT? Also, there is no other option for this surgeon? He is either drowsy or on adderall? Pretty awesome logic dude.

Well just the first part then. Off label use but not on a regular habitual basis. It's not cheating. Do you drink coffee or red bull ever? That's cheating too then. My comment was supposed to be the two extreme ends to show when it could be needed.
 
Saying you have little faith in western medicine is just.........weird. I'm tempted to suggest that you go live in a remote village in Brazil for a few years. See how you feel about western medicine after that.

No kidding. I think non-western/shamanic beliefs are interesting, but I'm sure thankful for the ER whenever I have an asthmatic episode....let alone something more serious.

Regarding Adderall, I'm with the other posters that mentioned the potential health problems it can cause. Folks that use this without medical oversight are short-sighted, and are jeopardizing their health for whatever other gain they may get.
 
It's a slippery slope. I would advise against using drugs to get an advantage on exams. If you need the drug to function normally, that's a different story. For example, some people need heart medications and anti-anxiety medications to manage their test anxiety. Those instances are ok. But to take a medication to get some advantage over the competition, in my opinion, is wrong.
 
I know several people who are on Adderall. None of them have obtained it illegally.
Everyone knows what doctor to go to and what to say to get it.

I've seen the affects of adderall first hand in medical and non-medical professions.
*A girl barely making it in a sonography program pre-adderall to changing majors and now being accepted into a PA program at a major university.
*A gospel singer who post adderall is now in the studio 7 days straight recording/writing/mixing all while hopping between 3 states.

*A guy I went to school with stopped taking it and had a psychotic break. College admins had to step in and have him removed from the dorm.
*A resident stopped taking his and got all weired and paranoid. Ended up choking the **** out of his RN girlfriend in ICU in front of everybody during visiting hours.. DISMISSED ON THE SPOT!

I wouldn't take it. I *rarely* have faith in western medicine anyway. I don't trust anything that would turn me into a super nerd. I don't agree with normal people seeking out this drug and drug pushing doctors prescribing it. It is wrong but I doubt this will be addressed for many years.

Aside from your negative overtones, do you realize you have described it as working appropriately?
 
Let me briefly hijack this thread.....

What self-righteous bull crap. You rarely have faith in western medicine? Drug pushing doctors? What are you doing here in the pre-allo thread?? (if you don't mind me asking).

Have you ever had a UTI? Like, a bad one? Or what about strep throat? Or how about food poisoning requiring medical intervention to get rehydrated and stop vomiting? Basically all of those things have happened to me over the past ten years and it's not like i knew they were going to strike. One minute I'm enjoying a nice meal, discussing my lack of faith in western medicine and its drug pushing docs, and 4 hours later im sure i might be dying as i projectile vomit into a garbage bag while having raging diarrhea. For hours and then days. It's not like an "I'll take an Imodium and lay down" situation. 48 hours later it was more like i would have given my left arm to make the nausea stop. Or a UTI? Sweet jezus is that uncomfortable and awful. Also not a "I'll take an advil and tough this out" situation. More like "holy hell please make this misery go away."

How is getting treated for ADHD any different? Are psychiatrists drug pushers now because ADHD seems less acute than other things? I just think its one thing to discuss abuse of prescription drugs by people and another to actually question the judgement of psychiatrists. It's inappropriate.

Saying you have little faith in western medicine is just.........weird. I'm tempted to suggest that you go live in a remote village in Brazil for a few years. See how you feel about western medicine after that.

Woah. Looks like a few months in the wolfs den did you some good 👍
 
Sadly, the negative view of psychiatric issues persists. Sure, you may not be able to readily touch it or feel it in another individual, but that doesn't make it any less serious. While ADD/ADHD meds are certainly overprescribed, that doesn't make it any less valuable who actually need it to function. Nor does the use of these meds in individuals with legitimate ADD/ADHD confer an unfair advantage.

Now, if you're using the meds, particularly the amphetamines, without a prescription, that is problematic at best. One should note, however, that at the normal therapeutic doses, they won't do much at all for a person who does not have ADD.
 
Aside from your negative overtones, do you realize you have described it as working appropriately?

That was my thought too. Seems like the other examples she provided might have had nothing to do with Adderall at all.

Woah. Looks like a few months in the wolfs den did you some good 👍

Ha. 🙂

This subject struck a nerve with me, so I took the time to reply at length. Seems important.

No kidding. I think non-western/shamanic beliefs are interesting
.

Me too! Very interesting.
 
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It's funny how some people are like "Omg its against the law, its wrong!". Who cares what the law says about what you do to yourself. During the prohibition, would you think that alcohol is morally wrong? Then the next year, after it is legalized, that alcohol is okay to drink? Are you really going to have the reason you do not smoke marijuana, be because someone rich guy wanted to make more profits on his paper industry, so he lobbied to make it illegal? Grow a pair of balls and think for yourself, you sheep.

From a purely rules-based standpoint, it is wrong. If you sent in a letter stating "I do not have ADHD and took illegally obtained Adderall before I took my MCAT." what do you think would happen to your score? Not getting caught doesn't make it any less of a rules violation, it just becomes one you got away with. There is also a certain aspect of moral turpitude involved in knowingly breaking a clearly written rule that feels wrong to me in someone planning to be a doctor, but not everyone has that same belief.

If a drug like the one in "Limitless" hit the market without negative side-effects would I take it if it? I dunno, quite probably. If it was legally obtained? Almost certainly. If you could only obtain it illegally? That would take a lot more thought.

Honestly, the reason I don't smoke marijuana is because I have too much to lose if I failed a drug test. I have no real moral objection to it in the abstract sense, know plenty of people who smoke without it bothering me and think it's silly that it's illegal, but my current life and my future is worth far more to me than a few hours of feeling good, especially when I could buy a bottle of wine for ten bucks and get much the same effect without any possible legal repercussions (which also goes towards why I think it's silly that it's illegal).
 
The bottom line is if adderall was nearly as magical as all of you are making it sound, there wouldn't be a neurotic pre-med around that wouldn't take it. "Take this pill, get a guaranteed 36, though it may be a little immoral." I'm sure all of you would deny it in a heart beat.

It isn't what you think. Some hate it, some focus better on it, some get nothing from it. You still need to put the work in to achieve good grades. I've never done it because I know it isn't magic and probably won't help me much, but I certainly don't care if anyone else wants to do it. To each their own. Stop being jealous and do what you do. What works for you may not work for others. Who cares.
 
How come no one has acknowledged that taking someone else's prescription meds is in itself a risky and bizarre behavior/choice? Most people do not do this.
 
How come no one has acknowledged that taking someone else's prescription meds is in itself a risky and bizarre behavior/choice? Most people do not do this.

Alot of people do this actually. Especially older people like my grandparents who share their pain meds or antibiotics or whatever so they don't have to make a visit when they have extra meds left from last time.
 
To my knowledge, there is no fee assistance for their practice tests.

I thought there was but I just looked it up and you're correct. You do get the registration fee reduced and the Official Guide to the MCAT Exam for free. Although I don't think that is much help.
 
only if you get caught.

It's no different than using nicotine or caffeine to focus.

Other than the fact that you don't need a DEA number to dispense coffee and nicotine, you are absolutely right!
 
The only effect all of these self-righteous mentalities in this thread have on our country is that they empower street dealers. You make it illegal and people will find it elsewhere.
 
This has to be the ultimate irony, in my eyes, of premeds illegally taking prescription drugs to help them study/cheat/whatever.

Considering the massive diversion problem in this country and the medical community's frustration with it, the last thing I would want on my record when applying to medical school would be any vestige of prescription drug abuse (like I would rather have MJ on my record if I could choose). I mean, even if it was a one time mistake, why risk admitting someone who might graduate and not be able to obtain a DEA license?

Oh well. I am not here to lecture. As someone noted: nothing is illegal until you get caught. Most people will get away with it, but they should know that they are taking a huge risk.
 
Oh look! A non-sequitur!

I just don't like it when people base reasoning off of "because it's illegal", like the whole immigration thing. Laws are man made, man is flawed, therefore laws are flawed, and are subject to change all the time. Besides being illegal, what is the problem? That's what I'm trying to get at.
 
I just don't like it when people base reasoning off of "because it's illegal", like the whole immigration thing. Laws are man made, man is flawed, therefore laws are flawed, and are subject to change all the time. Besides being illegal, what is the problem? That's what I'm trying to get at.

The simple fact is this, since it is illegal, it's a violation of the MCAT standards and you could lose your chance to get into med school because of it. All you'd need is some gunner to report you to the right person at the wrong time and get caught with it and you'd never have a chance to go to med school. The morality of it is really an entirely separate issue.
 
The simple fact is this, since it is illegal, it's a violation of the MCAT standards and you could lose your chance to get into med school because of it. All you'd need is some gunner to report you to the right person at the wrong time and get caught with it and you'd never have a chance to go to med school. The morality of it is really an entirely separate issue.

In other words, what you are saying, the only thing wrong with doing this is the risk? Morality aside, if I completely minimize the risk of getting caught (not have gunner friends, not tell a living soul that I took the pills) then technically there is nothing wrong with it? (not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to understand your logic and your point)
 
have you guys ever used adderall? It's not some wonder drug that makes you smart. It may allow you to maintain your concentration a little longer (ie browse sdn every 15 min instead of every 10 while studying), but to think it gives as big of an advantage as you all think is greatly exaggerating its ability and downplaying what it takes to do well on the mcat.

+1
 
Have you guys ever used adderall? It's not some wonder drug that makes you smart. It may allow you to maintain your concentration a little longer (ie browse SDN every 15 min instead of every 10 while studying), but to think it gives as big of an advantage as you all think is greatly exaggerating its ability and downplaying what it takes to do well on the MCAT.

Again, +1. Adderall helps you focus in on a certain thing. It doesn't aid in memory recollection, ability to think abstractly, or cognitive power. It just helps you concentrate. If your taking the mcat and can't focus on your passages and find yourself staring at your monitor blank eyed, ADHD drugs may help you. If you're an average joe, adderall is likely to not help at all on the actual exam. The nervous vibes and serious atmosphere of taking the mcat do not allow for most people to just lose concentration on the mcat. All of this being said, ADHD drugs (concerta, Ritalin, adderall, vyvanse, whatever) may help someone with their mcat prep, however, if you are not prescribed this medication it is a federal offense. Besides, there are pretty crappy side effects to these drugs like dry mouth and altered conscience. I wouldn't use them. A good work ethic + discipline + exercise >>> anything adderall can do

Sent from my iPhone
 
What I think is important to mention here is that "illegal" adderall use is only technically a violation of the AAMC rules if you are actually on the medication during the test. As has been pointed out, even people who are determined to use this drug recognize that you get the highest utility from it if it is used before the test, to study, and that its effects would probably be detrimental in a testing situation.

So we can eliminate any concerns about violating the AAMC rules UNLESS the tester uses Adderall during the test, which by consensus is inadvisable anyway. AAMC does not have any enumerated regulations about how to study (though they do offer suggestions). Would it be against test rules to study while under the influence of alcohol for example?

Clearly, there are still some ethical issues associated with using adderall as a study drug. My personal feeling is that those ethical issues ought to be sufficient to discourage applicants from using it. But the bottom line is it is not against the rules, and as such cannot be considered cheating, defined as "violating the rules dishonestly".

With that being said, while I didn't resort to adderall I don't think it would really change my opinion either way if I found out someone else did.
 
What I think is important to mention here is that "illegal" adderall use is only technically a violation of the AAMC rules if you are actually on the medication during the test. As has been pointed out, even people who are determined to use this drug recognize that you get the highest utility from it if it is used before the test, to study, and that its effects would probably be detrimental in a testing situation.

So we can eliminate any concerns about violating the AAMC rules UNLESS the tester uses Adderall during the test, which by consensus is inadvisable anyway. AAMC does not have any enumerated regulations about how to study (though they do offer suggestions). Would it be against test rules to study while under the influence of alcohol for example?
I agree with you here. I've only been considering use during the actual exam (like the thread title says) in my argument that it would be actual cheating, not just illegal. Studying on it would obviously still be illegal, but I agree it wouldn't be "cheating" as defined by the testing rules.
 
I agree with you here. I've only been considering use during the actual exam (like the thread title says) in my argument that it would be actual cheating, not just illegal. Studying on it would obviously still be illegal, but I agree it wouldn't be "cheating" as defined by the testing rules.

Well - I think you can interpret "using Adderall to score high on the MCAT" in a broader sense, but I get you.
 
Well - I think you can interpret "using Adderall to score high on the MCAT" in a broader sense, but I get you.
Good catch, I didn't glance at the title again when I should have. Restating, it seemed/seems like the thread's discussion had/has focused on taking it during the test, so that's what I had been referring to cheating-wise.
 
In other words, what you are saying, the only thing wrong with doing this is the risk? Morality aside, if I completely minimize the risk of getting caught (not have gunner friends, not tell a living soul that I took the pills) then technically there is nothing wrong with it? (not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to understand your logic and your point)

Morality aside, anything is OK. Killing someone is fine if there are no morals, it's a non-starter. That said, I'm not an idiot and get what you're saying here 😉

And the only answer I have is "that's something everyone needs to answer for themselves". At that point it comes down to a balance of risk vs reward. How much have you truly minimized the risk (I mean, you still have to acquire them somewhere)? How much of a benefit do you actually see when using them? Do you have any personal counter indications to their use? What side effects do you experience, if any? Does your personal moral compass allow for this sort of self-medicating? It's not something that can really be answered for anyone else.

For me, personally, the potential negatives outweigh the potential positives by a large margin
 
I've been trying to not respond to this thread the entire time but cannot resist anymore. Haha.

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was little and take an XR every morning. Taking it, I have to be extremely careful because it has some pretty bad side effects on me which I need to be very aware of so I can recognize the signs early and do what I can to help minimize them. I actually physically feel better not taking the medicine because then i don't have to worry about side effect management, but my ADHD is pretty bad so it's necessary to take it. I don't see any substantial value to it if you don't have ADHD, because a person is not cultivating needed study skills and habits on their own when tackling something huge like the MCAT without the use of a drug.

The bottom line is that with any drug, it runs the risk of dependency. How great that risk is can of course be debated, but I personally feel that someone who is taking it illegally early on can be setting themselves up for severe dependency later on especially if they're looking at medical school, residency, etc.

In the end, if you're going to take it without a prescription you're running a huge risk so you need to be very careful and manage how often and under what circumstances you take it. Those who aren't prescribed and decide to not use it I feel are making the smart decision because they are reaping the benefits of hard work without added help which is setting up a great foundation for later on without all the risks and side effects of taking a drug that isn't prescribed to them.

So yeah, OP I think you're making the right decision. To each their own, and quite frankly i feel that someone can take it as they deem fit. It's their decision and their responsibility, but with that being said sometimes a person makes the bed and has to lay in it so I wouldn't be surprised if it came back to bite them eventually. Especially if they're not just taking it on the day of the MCAT, but in the many months leading up to it to study for it. That sounds really risky.
 
I've been trying to not respond to this thread the entire time but cannot resist anymore. Haha.

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was little and take an XR every morning. Taking it, I have to be extremely careful because it has some pretty bad side effects on me which I need to be very aware of so I can recognize the signs early and do what I can to help minimize them. I actually physically feel better not taking the medicine because then i don't have to worry about side effect management, but my ADHD is pretty bad so it's necessary to take it. I don't see any substantial value to it if you don't have ADHD, because a person is not cultivating needed study skills and habits on their own when tackling something huge like the MCAT without the use of a drug.

The bottom line is that with any drug, it runs the risk of dependency. How great that risk is can of course be debated, but I personally feel that someone who is taking it illegally early on can be setting themselves up for severe dependency later on especially if they're looking at medical school, residency, etc.

In the end, if you're going to take it without a prescription you're running a huge risk so you need to be very careful and manage how often and under what circumstances you take it. Those who aren't prescribed and decide to not use it I feel are making the smart decision because they are reaping the benefits of hard work without added help which is setting up a great foundation for later on without all the risks and side effects of taking a drug that isn't prescribed to them.

So yeah, OP I think you're making the right decision. To each their own, and quite frankly i feel that someone can take it as they deem fit. It's their decision and their responsibility, but with that being said sometimes a person makes the bed and has to lay in it so I wouldn't be surprised if it came back to bite them eventually. Especially if they're not just taking it on the day of the MCAT, but in the many months leading up to it to study for it. That sounds really risky.



Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.
 
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Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.

ive been bounced around from several ADHD meds as I "outgrew" them during childhood. My mom told me that I had really bad come-downs from a couple of them and was on one that could seriously screw with my liver if we were not careful (if dosing wasnt correct).
 
Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.

Adderall specifically has some nasty ones and is not indicated for use in adults.
 
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