How do you find time?

[hinow]

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So after posting in the chances thread, it seems that I need to improve my ECs.
My question is, how do you have the time to do all this stuff? I feel like my schedule doesn't let me do anything more than what I already am doing and I find myself constantly going from one thing to another.

I'm a rower, so that takes ~30 hours a week. I'm a full-time student, I volunteer at a hospital once a week, and I'm currently taking a class to get EMT certified. I feel like I just have stuff to do, all the time and that I can't fit anything else into my schedule. I'd love to get into research, but there's just no time for it.

How do you do it?

 

[BLACKMD]

What more is anyone saying you need to fit into your schedule? The only thing I'm trying to cram into my schedule right now is research because its a large commitment for an entire semester.

 

[Guero]

So after posting in the chances thread, it seems that I need to improve my ECs.
My question is, how do you have the time to do all this stuff? I feel like my schedule doesn't let me do anything more than what I already am doing and I find myself constantly going from one thing to another.

I'm a rower, so that takes ~30 hours a week. I'm a full-time student, I volunteer at a hospital once a week, and I'm currently taking a class to get EMT certified. I feel like I just have stuff to do, all the time and that I can't fit anything else into my schedule. I'd love to get into research, but there's just no time for it.

How do you do it?

Ugh, you're doing fine. You're succumbing to the rampant neuroticism on SDN regarding having as many ECs as possible. Calm down and pursue what you have going on now while ensuring you don't let your grades flounder as a result. To each their own, some people can take on immense amounts of work and sleep very little. Others will crumble under such circumstances. You're doing quite well from the sound of your OP. If you really want to do research and feel you can't take it on now, take a gap year and actually get paid to do some research.

Good luck!

 

[mimelim]

So after posting in the chances thread, it seems that I need to improve my ECs.
My question is, how do you have the time to do all this stuff? I feel like my schedule doesn't let me do anything more than what I already am doing and I find myself constantly going from one thing to another.

I'm a rower, so that takes ~30 hours a week. I'm a full-time student, I volunteer at a hospital once a week, and I'm currently taking a class to get EMT certified. I feel like I just have stuff to do, all the time and that I can't fit anything else into my schedule. I'd love to get into research, but there's just no time for it.

How do you do it?

Efficiency. Get organized. I am doing something related to residency 110hrs/week (clinical, research, studying, presentations, conferences, etc.) I still get to the rock gym 3 times a week.

The first question is, why does rowing take 30 hours/week? That is a very large time commitment, is it the most productive use of time?

 

[DrEnderW]

The first question is, why does rowing take 30 hours/week? That is a very large time commitment, is it the most productive use of time?

I think that's the nature of most collegiate sports - assuming this person is on the varsity team. My time commitment for ice hockey was easily that.

Seconding what Guero said (he always provides great advice), you're ECs aren't bad at all! Rowing + volunteering in the hospital weekly + EMT is pretty respectable. My only advice would be to try and get some research in, whether that is in the summer or through a course for credit during the year.

Good luck!

 

[Guero]

I think that's the nature of most collegiate sports - assuming this person is on the varsity team. My time commitment for ice hockey was easily that.

Seconding what Guero said (he always provides great advice), you're ECs aren't bad at all! Rowing + volunteering in the hospital weekly + EMT is pretty respectable. My only advice would be to try and get some research in, whether that is in the summer or through a course for credit during the year.

Good luck!

Awww, shucks!

 

[Donald Juan]

Who cares about research? Not everybody does it. It sounds like you are doing plenty.

And, don't listen to Mimelim...even if he is actually doing what he says (while still having time to get on SDN as much as possible), there is no reason you need to be working like a freaking resident in undergrad. I'd say if the rowing or EMT is something you absolutely hate and are only doing it for med school applications, then you should maybe consider dropping it in lieu of research.

 

[Daneosaurus]

I feel like the research thing is way overblown on SDN. Don't get me wrong I'd love to do research for the experience of it, but a friend of mine is going in to his PGY2 - Surg and he had almost NONE of the EC's everyone seems to think are required. n=1, I know, but 6.022X10^23 EC's are not the most important thing - your grades and MCAT are. If you're doing stuff that makes you seem well rounded, like rowing in your case, that is perfectly fine.

 

[Guero]

I feel like the research thing is way overblown on SDN. Don't get me wrong I'd love to do research for the experience of it, but a friend of mine is going in to his PGY2 - Surg and he had almost NONE of the EC's everyone seems to think are required. n=1, I know, but 6.022X10^23 EC's are not the most important thing - your grades and MCAT are. If you're doing stuff that makes you seem well rounded, like rowing in your case, that is perfectly fine.

Avocado's #.

notsrs

 

[KnuxNole]

I feel like the research thing is way overblown on SDN. Don't get me wrong I'd love to do research for the experience of it, but a friend of mine is going in to his PGY2 - Surg and he had almost NONE of the EC's everyone seems to think are required. n=1, I know, but 6.022X10^23 EC's are not the most important thing - your grades and MCAT are. If you're doing stuff that makes you seem well rounded, like rowing in your case, that is perfectly fine.

I've also never done research(and don't ever plan to) and about to start residency. Not gonna lie, I was worried about applying to med school without any formal research, but then starting talking to students who said it was fine based on my school choices.

It's great for people who are genuinely interested in scientific research. But...it wasn't for me.

 

[DrEnderW]

I've also never done research(and don't ever plan to) and about to start residency. Not gonna lie, I was worried about applying to med school without any formal research, but then starting talking to students who said it was fine based on my school choices.

It's great for people who are genuinely interested in scientific research. But...it wasn't for me.

For sure.

You can, of course, reach your goals without research. However, just taking a quick look at the MSAR you will see that a lot of schools claim the majority of students have research experience. Analogously, data from match reports shows that many specialties accept students with "x" number of pubs on average.

Of course, there are people that don't fit in this trend but I feel like it's always good advice to cover the bases when giving advice to others. Do you need research... no. Will it help and increase the strength of your app if it fits in... most definitely.

 

[mimelim]

Who cares about research? Not everybody does it. It sounds like you are doing plenty.

And, don't listen to Mimelim...even if he is actually doing what he says (while still having time to get on SDN as much as possible), there is no reason you need to be working like a freaking resident in undergrad. I'd say if the rowing or EMT is something you absolutely hate and are only doing it for med school applications, then you should maybe consider dropping it in lieu of research.

I am curious as to what he shouldn't be listening to from my post. Never mind that I didn't advocate doing anything in particular.

 

[KnuxNole]

For sure.

You can, of course, reach your goals without research. However, just taking a quick look at the MSAR you will see that a lot of schools claim the majority of students have research experience. Analogously, data from match reports shows that many specialties accept students with "x" number of pubs on average.

Of course, there are people that don't fit in this trend but I feel like it's always good advice to cover the bases when giving advice to others. Do you need research... no. Will it help and increase the strength of your app if it fits in... most definitely.

Oh yea, I agree with you in that it's good to cover your bases. I guess I was showing an ancedote from the other side of the spectrum 🙂

 

[Aerus]

Who cares about research? Not everybody does it. It sounds like you are doing plenty.

And, don't listen to Mimelim...even if he is actually doing what he says (while still having time to get on SDN as much as possible), there is no reason you need to be working like a freaking resident in undergrad. I'd say if the rowing or EMT is something you absolutely hate and are only doing it for med school applications, then you should maybe consider dropping it in lieu of research.

Mimelim just told OP to become efficient, which is always excellent advice for anyone under any circumstances.

He was giving his own life experience as an example for how much one can accomplish with proper time management, not as a bar for OP to match.

 

[hinow]

Efficiency. Get organized. I am doing something related to residency 110hrs/week (clinical, research, studying, presentations, conferences, etc.) I still get to the rock gym 3 times a week.

The first question is, why does rowing take 30 hours/week? That is a very large time commitment, is it the most productive use of time?

It's a varsity sport. We compete nationally. I really love the sport and I think it has led to a lot of personal growth for me.

Does anyone else feel that a lot of people on SDN are super intense with ECs? Is this normal? Is it really necessary to do all this stuff in order to get into a top school?

Also, does research only matter if you get a paper out of it? I did a little bit of research during my freshman year for about 9 months. No paper, though.

 

[mimelim]

It's a varsity sport. We compete nationally. I really love the sport and I think it has led to a lot of personal growth for me.

Does anyone else feel that a lot of people on SDN are super intense with ECs? Is this normal? Is it really necessary to do all this stuff in order to get into a top school?

Also, does research only matter if you get a paper out of it? I did a little bit of research during my freshman year for about 9 months. No paper, though.

The average poster on SDN doesn't understand the purpose of ECs in medical school admissions. They see them as checkboxes and nothing else. When I looked at schedules/ECs, this is how I evaluated them on our medical school admission's committee:

You have 168 hours a week to live your life. What is your typical week?

Lets say that you are a typical pre-med.
15 hours of class
15 hours of studying
56 hours of sleep (being overly generous at 8 hours/night)

Total: 86 hours of time locked into mandatory things to remain a full time student. That leaves you with 82 hours a week to do what you please. How do you occupy your time? Any time that you aren't listing as an EC is considered time that you are using for pure recreation. So there is no ambiguity... There is NOTHING wrong with goofing off. Nothing wrong with playing video games and getting hammered with your friends. The question is how much of your 82 hours is absorbed by that stuff vs. personal and professional growth activities. If you are interested in the top schools, most applicants spend a considerable amount of time doing things outside of their core academics. This is certainly not true at every US MD school. Interviewing at HMS and Hopkins, I felt pretty pretty outclassed despite boasting a reasonably respectable UG resume. If spending 30 hours a week playing a varsity sport is rewarding for you and something that is important, then keep at it. It will certainly stand out. Just be ready to talk about it and be able to justify the huge time commitment that you put into it.

I'm going to just quote myself to summarize:

To summarize the SDN opinions, don't really have time to have the arguments again, so I'll just post both. Obviously I fall in support of the second group.

Prevailing Pre-med opinion: This is based on reading pre-meds posting in these kinds of threads:

ECs are a hoop to jump through, get as many hours as you can in as many things and exaggerate your involvement. Statistically, people with more do better, so maximize the number of things and hours. Many of them will say that adcoms may say one thing, but they either are lying or are simply practicing something different than they preach.

Vocalized opinion of adcoms: This is based on n=4 faculty adcoms that I am close to (family/friends) + LizzyM (SDN member and faculty adcom member) as well as my own experiences developing med school recruitment strategies:

ECs are not about the number of hours or even the number of experiences. They are about the experiences themselves. Grades and MCAT scores give a reasonable estimation of your studying and academic aptitude. ECs speak toward your growth as an individual over the peri-undergraduate period. Being a good student is not enough. There are plenty of students with good scores and grades to fill all of the US medical schools. Adcoms are looking for people who have done more with their time than study in undergrad. When adcoms talk about diversity, they aren't just talking about race and ethnicity. They are looking for interesting people who have had experiences that have made them better people and future physicians. There haven't been any randomized controlled trials that have shown that people who excel outside of the classroom tend to become better physcians, but that is the prevailing opinion of the adcoms that I know.

I had a dean tell me regarding admissions: every admitted medical student needs to be in our best estimation on the road to becoming a good physician, but they also need to have the capacity or the possibility to become a great physician or contribute something to medicine or society. Statistically, it is obvious that the vast majority of medical students will not go on to be tops of fields or Nobel prize winners. But that isn't the point. They are still looking for that potential.

 

[hinow]

mimelim, that was actually really helpful to read. I feel so much more confident in my choices because I do what I do for me, not for adcoms. Thank you so much!

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I am curious as to what he shouldn't be listening to from my post. Never mind that I didn't advocate doing anything in particular.

I'd prefer to listen to a resident who has had more experience like mimelim over a med student..

as Arnold once said, if you cant find the time, sleep faster.

 

[Guero]

I had a good MCAT score. My GPA was low for a medical school applications, but since I decided to apply to medical school in my Junior year, it simply reflected my pursuits up to that point. I never took less than 18 credits a semester and just as an example, my second semester freshman year I was taking Math 233, Chem 112, Physics 198, Physics 314, Physics 217, Physics 317, Biology 292 plus my required writing seminar. Not many pre-meds take 4 physics classes while taking the normal pre-med pre-reqs. I was taking Calc III and Chem II as they were required for my major and the biology was because I knew I needed to get stronger in bio for lab reasons. Starting my freshman Summer, I also started working in various labs. During the school year I was working 20-40 hrs/week, Summer closer to 70-80 hrs/week. I had a couple of publications, but those were miniscule compared to my lab contributions designing and building a beowulf cluster, writing programs to optimize genome analysis and annotation (I stopped by my undergrad a couple weeks ago while on vacation and noticed that at least 2 labs are still using the software I wrote based on their posters and the unmistakable drawings that my programs produced). I also TA'ed pre-med/intro Physics from Sophomore year until graduation.

So, MCAT, reasonable explanation for GPA, research, and teaching. Outside of that, while I haven't historically been the 'best' athlete in any group of people, you would have a hard time finding a sport or game that I'm not reasonably good at. I certainly have an ego that can get in the way of things, but I can very honestly tell people that project, sports, games etc. you will want me on your team. I am a superior communicator and I produce no matter what situation I am in. Oh, and I only need to sleep 4 hours a day. That is always a plus 😉.

Holy sauerkraut, Hans, that's impressive! Anyway, as always, thanks for the awesome contributions. 👍