How do you guys fly business/first class?

[linkin06]

Do you guys think it's worth it to purchase a subscription to one of those flight deal searching companies?

scottscheapflights and secretflying are both solid from my use lately

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[Ashers]

I've used SkyLux Travel for discount business fares for two trips in the past. It made Delta affordable. Both were before covid.

I did get annoyed with them calling me constantly afterwards asking me to book more tickets. They eventually stopped, but they are persistent, but I have a lower than normal person tolerance for phone calls (a locums recruiter just got upset and raised his voice at me when I told him cold calls weren't cool and to remove me from his list). I got the miles into my Delta account when with discounted fares.

Now, for hotels/travel, Amex Platinum is a great card. You can occasionally get an extra points sign up bonus. Their travel will give you more points when book through their travel service.

I'm going to Scotland, London, Ireland on a second trip in May. (First trip I'm staying with friends, so free lodging.) With my friend, I'm using Hilton points in London and Dublin and in Edinburgh I'm using IHG points, so we have no hotel costs there. In County Kerry we have to pay for 1 night hotel and in Cork, I'm using a combo of points/money to bring down the cost of a super fancy hotel. So for a two week trip, the two of us are paying $800 total for lodging. We could pay $200, but I use Amex points for other things, so I use those sparingly. (I had about 1 million IHG points, 800k Hilton points, and 600k Amex points before booking anything, used a few hundred thousand Hilton/IHG, 60k Amex)

I have several hotel/airline credit cards some are duplicates for personal and business.

 

[agammaglobulin]

Do you guys think it's worth it to purchase a subscription to one of those flight deal searching companies?

If you have a flexible schedule and WANT to travel, yes.

+1 on what Shimmy8 said. I have used ScottsCheapFlights in the past and they do have good deals but you have to be flexible with dates. Changing the departure date of a trip from Thursday to Saturday can erase all the savings. I noticed you also have to book fairly immediately otherwise it gets sold out. It’s probably best once you’re retired/part time and without kids…

 

[GassYous]

scottscheapflights and secretflying are both solid from my use lately

I have the premium but I'm wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to elite for those business class fares. There's a lot fewer deals than before. Used to be flights to caribbean for 100, europe for 300s and asia for 500 round trip regularly.

 

[MirrorTodd]

I've used SkyLux Travel for discount business fares for two trips in the past. It made Delta affordable. Both were before covid.

I did get annoyed with them calling me constantly afterwards asking me to book more tickets. They eventually stopped, but they are persistent, but I have a lower than normal person tolerance for phone calls (a locums recruiter just got upset and raised his voice at me when I told him cold calls weren't cool and to remove me from his list). I got the miles into my Delta account when with discounted fares.

Now, for hotels/travel, Amex Platinum is a great card. You can occasionally get an extra points sign up bonus. Their travel will give you more points when book through their travel service.

I'm going to Scotland, London, Ireland on a second trip in May. (First trip I'm staying with friends, so free lodging.) With my friend, I'm using Hilton points in London and Dublin and in Edinburgh I'm using IHG points, so we have no hotel costs there. In County Kerry we have to pay for 1 night hotel and in Cork, I'm using a combo of points/money to bring down the cost of a super fancy hotel. So for a two week trip, the two of us are paying $800 total for lodging. We could pay $200, but I use Amex points for other things, so I use those sparingly. (I had about 1 million IHG points, 800k Hilton points, and 600k Amex points before booking anything, used a few hundred thousand Hilton/IHG, 60k Amex)

I have several hotel/airline credit cards some are duplicates for personal and business.

Nobody wants to work anymore

 

[thinkorswim]

Using miles and points is still possible these days. In general, you just need to book either a year in advance or within a month of departure.

For example, we were able to book business class flights to Asia on ANA (excited to fly in The Room!) and will be staying at 5-star hotels while there. The flights and hotels would have cost over $30k if paid in cash, but we’re using points and free night certificates for it all. This lets us splurge a little more on food, shopping and other experiences while there.

 

[Ashers]

Nobody wants to work anymore

I want to work, but if I get cold calls from recruiters when I haven't contacted their company, I'm sure not gonna use them especially if get upset at me for calling them out on cold calling me. I get recruiters names through networking. And I have enough work for right now.

 

[dchz]

If you've just now started, you're late to the game and missed the golden years.

I've manufactured spent well into the seven (maybe eight?) figures back when it was super profitable and worth my time. Millions of AA miles and didn't pay cash for travel for 6-8 years. Stopped a couple years ago when the real manufactured spending resources dried up.

Maybe I should dive back in...

Apparently I did miss the golden years. But not nearly has bad as missing the golden years of medicine...

 

[dchz]

Very impressive. How do you have so many chase points?

Chase Inks. 90k points for $6k spend. PM me if you want a referral link.

I'm at the Park Hyatt beaver creek (a ski in ski out resort). Instead of paying the $1300/night rate I just used 35k/night (105k chase -> Hyatt).

It cuts the cost of the trip way down, like @thinkorswim said, it makes it much easier to splurge on dinners and things that improve the quality of the trips.

 

[GassYous]

Why get fancy rooms though? You're going to be sleeping in it most of the time. I travel to check the area, not the hotel. I get that there's a certain floor but I don't feel like a 1000 a night room is that much better than a 200 a night room.

 

[dchz]

I want to work, but if I get cold calls from recruiters when I haven't contacted their company, I'm sure not gonna use them especially if get upset at me for calling them out on cold calling me. I get recruiters names through networking. And I have enough work for right now.

Did you know if you ask them to get you off the calling list and they keep calling.

You're entitled to $500 per call.



Who needs locums when you can just collect cold calls from people...

 

[dchz]

Why get fancy rooms though? You're going to be sleeping in it most of the time. I travel to check the area, not the hotel. I get that there's a certain floor but I don't feel like a 1000 a night room is that much better than a 200 a night room.

Well it's a 35k points per night room. Not a $1k per night room. Also the $1k room is almost certainly way better than the $200 room in the same area. What if the increase in room quality made your sleep better?

Also the same argument could be made for the biz class ticket, you're just gonna be sitting in the seat for 13 hours....

Or any luxury in life for that matter. It's subjective but it's worth it to the people paying that amount.

I would like to point out, I would not pay $1300 for this room, but I would gladly pay 35k points. I'm, again, taking advantage of their price discrimination. But I'm prob not gonna ski anywhere else in unless someone flys me privately into a ski in ski out place in sun valley.

 

[Ashers]

Did you know if you ask them to get you off the calling list and they keep calling.

You're entitled to $500 per call.



Who needs locums when you can just collect cold calls from people...

oh, I did save him in my phone as Locum Jerk in case he calls me again.

I've blocked some other numbers that I've asked to stop calling me. But then that'd require figuring out which numbers those are. I work with 6 or 7 locums companies right now looking at assignments, so this dude called me from one I had never heard of. I could have full time work with just 1 company.

I'm with you on hotels. Sometimes a really nice room is worth it. Sometimes the amenities at the hotel or location make it worth it to splurge. Nov 2021 I got the Waldorf Hilton London for £132/ night; I had never seen it that low, so I paid for the 9 days. This trip it's £550 for the basic room, so I'm using points at all hotels I can saving cash to do fun things on the trip. My friend I'm going with has never been to London, so we are staying in a nice area close to stuff, but it also has the executive lounge for access to food (saves costs of a lot of meals), I get breakfast included because of my status.

 

[Lashler9054]

surprised no one has mentioned the points guy

 

[coffeebythelake]

Do you guys think it's worth it to purchase a subscription to one of those flight deal searching companies?

Our work isn't that flexible.

 

[dchz]

surprised no one has mentioned the points guy

They are too much of a sellout imo. They are in the pockets of credit card companies and often push you to a suboptimal card/strategy.

I do listen to frequent miler, but that's a really deep dive into the whole points thing.

 

[Ashers]

They are too much of a sellout imo. They are in the pockets of credit card companies and often push you to a suboptimal card/strategy.

Agreed. Sometimes they bring extra point deals on credit cards to my attention. I got 25K additional amex points that way when I signed up for the Amex platinum business card. And I'll read their articles to compare hotel brands that I'm not familiar with, but in general I don't find them super useful for most of my travel deals. They have so many referral links to get the cards.

 

[GassYous]

They don't show you the best cards or best hysa rates. They show you the companies that advertise with them which are okay but not great. I've found Reddit and flyertalk to be much better.

 

[buddababa]

Fair!

I grew up in Hawai'i, so if fly coach growing up as 1 of 4 kids in the family. We would often offer to be bumped when flying TWA to HNL from STL with the condition that we got put in first class the next day. It worked, we also got tickets (coach) to anywhere TWA flew for 3 years in row. We figured we put TWA out of business in the early 2000s. 🤣 We got quite a few free tickets between the whole family over the years. (Before lay flat seats.) I also grew up in the days of smoking sections on planes and even you could go steal a whole row. I did that in my first intentional flight in 1992. I've also done the Hawaii to ATL sitting in coach in college. Back then I could fall asleep as soon as I sat down. My longest flight was LAX to Auckland. 14 hours in the middle of the 5 of 747. Then I took nyquil and went insane with boredom.

Back then I'd offer to be bumped on many flights if I didn't have to be back at college.

When I worked at home after fellowship, I'd buy first class, and sleeping, evening sitting up was easier. The better customer service made it nicer too.

But all my experiences made me adept at finding deals.

I miss TWA

 

[narcusprince]

Exit row seats are the sweet spot for waaaaay more legroom than business class, comparable to first class. Not as much elbow room obviously. But a great option for tall people.

I always ask about first class upgrades at the gate. Sometimes you get lucky and can move up for a few hundred. Sometimes they're $thousands. Seems like it's harder to get reasonably priced upgrades now, compared to 20 years ago.

I just came back from Europe. Flew business class 6k for two. Definitely worth it…..

 

[coffeebythelake]

I just came back from Europe. Flew business class 6k for two. Definitely worth it…..

so 3k per ticket? business? direct? return? where did u fly from/to?

 

[narcusprince]

Tampa to Athens and Rome to Tampa.

 

[cde]

We have used Skylux travel and have been happy

 

[POW16]

I'm 6'8 and never fly first class unless I get the rare free upgrade from AA. Paying almost 4K for two people to go to Asia in April. First class would be nice but even premium economy adds 3K for one way only. Can't justify that expense to myself. I'll pay extra for an exit row though.

 

[anbuitachi]

Any way around paying $5-6k for a Polaris business class ticket to Europe? Any international meetings I can write off lol? We have 170k points each in Amex but unsurprisingly there is no Polaris saver tickets available for the dates. Do summer time saver tickets every even exist. I figured at least someone here was an expert. Those flyer forums are way above my head. This all seems like dumb luck.

your take home per month is like 12k after tax, insurance, 401k.

that gives you 12k spending money. so i think if you save for a few months, you'll have enough in the bank to pay 5-6k for a ticket and not be in credit card debt.

its like what my wife says. money earned is meant to be spent. aside from maxing 401k, the rest is spending money

 

[teacher2md]

its like what my wife says. money earned is meant to be spent. aside from maxing 401k, the rest is spending money

It all depends on your goals. If you want to maintain a similar standard of living during retirement, and/or you want to retire before 65ish, then you need to save much more than just the 60k 401k contribution per year.

 

[sevo00]

its like what my wife says. money earned is meant to be spent. aside from maxing 401k, the rest is spending money

Disagree. Need to invest outside of retirement accounts and also in real estate to build passive income. Otherwise will be working full time into your 60s.

 

[D P356]

Why get fancy rooms though? You're going to be sleeping in it most of the time. I travel to check the area, not the hotel. I get that there's a certain floor but I don't feel like a 1000 a night room is that much better than a 200 a night room.

Eh, road trip back from vacation we stayed at a chain hotel by Wyndham.
I’ve got low standards; a clean room and bed was all we wanted.

The room had a clogged sink, paint falling off ceiling, what I’m hoping was red lipstick smeared on multiple walls, baseboard trim broken off the wall…

However, sheets and beds were clean.

 

[kidthor]

Disagree. Need to invest outside of retirement accounts and also in real estate to build passive income. Otherwise will be working full time into your 60s.

I really need to get into real estate. Anyone in here invest in syndications?

 

[Neopolymath]

I really need to get into real estate. Anyone in here invest in syndications?

@sevoflurane

 

[secretasianman]

your take home per month is like 12k after tax, insurance, 401k.

that gives you 12k spending money. so i think if you save for a few months, you'll have enough in the bank to pay 5-6k for a ticket and not be in credit card debt.

its like what my wife says. money earned is meant to be spent. aside from maxing 401k, the rest is spending money

I think the answer is somewhere more in between. Unless you’re likely to get divorced, then you might as well spend it all now.

 

[doctalaughs]

I think the answer is somewhere more in between. Unless you’re likely to get divorced, then you might as well spend it all now.

I’d be super uncomfortable only saving 60k/yr

Also this assumes you don’t have kids and/or plan to tell them zero support after 18.

 

[finalpsychyear]

your take home per month is like 12k after tax, insurance, 401k.

that gives you 12k spending money. so i think if you save for a few months, you'll have enough in the bank to pay 5-6k for a ticket and not be in credit card debt.

its like what my wife says. money earned is meant to be spent. aside from maxing 401k, the rest is spending money

Average Doctor Net Worth by Age - What Percent Are Millionaires? | White Coat Investor

Too many docs never build significant wealth despite their high incomes. Want to be an above average physician and become a millionaire? Make plans now to ensure you aren't in that category when you retire.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Sad stats that only about 6% docs 50-54 and 11% docs by age 55-59 have a nw over 5m.
60k/ yr for 20 years with a 5% real return adjusting for inflation gives you 2m in today's dollars 20 years from now. You'll need 150k per year put away instead to even hit 5m.

When i hear things like this then it all makes sense. Maybe people don't care to reach those numbers which then is fine or plan to work till 70.

 

[kidthor]

Average Doctor Net Worth by Age - What Percent Are Millionaires? | White Coat Investor

Too many docs never build significant wealth despite their high incomes. Want to be an above average physician and become a millionaire? Make plans now to ensure you aren't in that category when you retire.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Sad stats that only about 6% docs 50-54 and 11% docs by age 55-59 have a nw over 5m.
60k/ yr for 20 years with a 5% real return adjusting for inflation gives you 2m in today's dollars 20 years from now. You'll need 150k per year put away instead to even hit 5m.

When i hear things like this then it all makes sense. Maybe people don't care to reach those numbers which then is fine or plan to work till 70.

I suspect with increasing student loan burden, decreasing reimbursement, increased life costs, and decreasing employer-side retirement there will be very few anesthesiologists with a personal net worth anywhere near that high.

Personally I'm not even at 1M yet and I'm several years into attending life. If the stock market hadn't tanked hard I would have been though. Oh well.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I suspect with increasing student loan burden, decreasing reimbursement, increased life costs, and decreasing employer-side retirement there will be very few anesthesiologists with a personal net worth anywhere near that high.

Personally I'm not even at 1M yet and I'm several years into attending life. If the stock market hadn't tanked hard I would have been though. Oh well.

I started as an attending less than 10 years ago and I just reached 1M net worth. I'm told the accumulation accelerates rapidly though

 

[finalpsychyear]

I suspect with increasing student loan burden, decreasing reimbursement, increased life costs, and decreasing employer-side retirement there will be very few anesthesiologists with a personal net worth anywhere near that high.

Personally I'm not even at 1M yet and I'm several years into attending life. If the stock market hadn't tanked hard I would have been though. Oh well.

Well the great thing about your specialty now is you should easily be able to get 500k-600 yearly without killing yourself. The other part is what exactly is your short term/long term goal. Mine was simply achieving FI asap. I lived like a resident for 5 years as an attending spending no more than 50-60k yearly and working 2 FTE jobs in that time and investing the rest living in midwest.

Then i got married and spending doubled. I feel I live in luxury with a 10k/month spending budget however i have no kids and no house as of now. I still struggle with the 10k spending as its a tough change. For those that start spending 10k off the bat lifestyle creep makes it challenging to go back or having kids and HCOL might not make it practical to do what i did.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I started as an attending less than 10 years ago and I just reached 1M net worth. I'm told the accumulation accelerates rapidly though

Its a great number to reach esp with the current market state so congrats! How many years as an attending are you then? I ask bc my sibling is going to start as a gas attending next year and the offers of 500-600k for a 28 yo can go bad without being fiscally responsible with a sudden 10x in gross pay.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Well the great thing about your specialty now is you should easily be able to get 500k-600 yearly without killing yourself. The other part is what exactly is your short term/long term goal. Mine was simply achieving FI asap. I lived like a resident for 5 years as an attending spending no more than 50-60k yearly and working 2 FTE jobs in that time and investing the rest living in midwest.

And that's why many of us don't. That sounds awful.

 

[finalpsychyear]

And that's why many of us don't. That sounds awful.

If a person is single, no kids, paid off car and loans then I don't consider spending 5k/month an awful lifestyle esp given coming from 3k a month net monthly residency paycheck. In fact, I think spending 60k post tax is very close to the ideal/emotional happiness post tax amount which had been considered. Its also a fact that my happiness is not changed spending 5k or 10k monthly but for others this may be the case.

 

[vector2]

If a person is single, no kids, paid off car and loans then I don't consider spending 5k/month an awful lifestyle esp given coming from 3k a month net monthly residency paycheck. In fact, I think spending 60k post tax is very close to the ideal/emotional happiness post tax amount which had been considered. Its also a fact that my happiness is not changed spending 5k or 10k monthly but for others this may be the case.

Happiness is whatever you make it, but I think many of the single, younger attendings I know could not function at all on that budget. Not necessarily because of housing or cars or "things," but because they use their disposable income for luxury or semi-luxury experiential expenses like traveling business class to nyc for omakase or to a wine tasting in napa while staying at nice or decent hotels/resorts, etc. And when they do have to buy a "thing," they just get a nice thing because they can. Yes, they may not be able to FIRE by doing that, but the flipside is that they made sure they got to do young person things while they were still young.

 

[anaesthetic]

Happiness is whatever you make it, but I think many of the single, younger attendings I know could not function at all on that budget. Not necessarily because of housing or cars or "things," but because they use their disposable income for luxury or semi-luxury experiential expenses like traveling business class to nyc for omakase or to a wine tasting in napa while staying at nice or decent hotels/resorts, etc. And when they do have to buy a "thing," they just get a nice thing because they can. Yes, they may not be able to FIRE by doing that, but the flipside is that they made sure they got to do young person things while they were still young.

The COVID era really opened my eyes. I had a childhood friend die from it (pre-vax, otherwise healthy), among many other young friends who died, had a stroke, got into debilitating accidents, got cancer, etc. There’s no way I’m living like a resident right now, even if it means working for a significantly longer time down the road. My wife agrees. We’ve made enough sacrifices in our lives up to this point. Gotta enjoy it.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Happiness is whatever you make it, but I think many of the single, younger attendings I know could not function at all on that budget. Not necessarily because of housing or cars or "things," but because they use their disposable income for luxury or semi-luxury experiential expenses like traveling business class to nyc for omakase or to a wine tasting in napa while staying at nice or decent hotels/resorts, etc. And when they do have to buy a "thing," they just get a nice thing because they can. Yes, they may not be able to FIRE by doing that, but the flipside is that they made sure they got to do young person things while they were still young.

Agree. Who wants to live on 10% of your income? You can’t take it with you.

It’s also important to try to save something (particularly if tax advance). Have disability/life insurance.

But there’s no reason to drive a 2000 Camry.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Happiness is whatever you make it, but I think many of the single, younger attendings I know could not function at all on that budget. Not necessarily because of housing or cars or "things," but because they use their disposable income for luxury or semi-luxury experiential expenses like traveling business class to nyc for omakase or to a wine tasting in napa while staying at nice or decent hotels/resorts, etc. And when they do have to buy a "thing," they just get a nice thing because they can. Yes, they may not be able to FIRE by doing that, but the flipside is that they made sure they got to do young person things while they were still young.

Sure. Agree on the happiness front. I wasn't traveling first class unless i got a free upgrade via Alaska those 5 years but i did visit one city per mo via flight and traveling was probably 1500 of my monthly budget. I also was 33 yo when i finished my "live like a resident" experiment so it sometimes depends a bit if you had interruptions or finished things quicker than most esp bs/md programs and having no gaps in training at any point. While young person things while young are great I'd rather be in a position to do rich people things while young like heli-skiing the past 2 winters which let me tell you is def. worth the experience.

 

[finalpsychyear]

The COVID era really opened my eyes. I had a childhood friend die from it (pre-vax, otherwise healthy), among many other young friends who died, had a stroke, got into debilitating accidents, got cancer, etc. There’s no way I’m living like a resident right now, even if it means working for a significantly longer time down the road. My wife agrees. We’ve made enough sacrifices in our lives up to this point. Gotta enjoy it.

I agree. At no point in my "live like a resident" was i deprived of experiences. That's where a good chunk of my money went probably more than i think. Now since i've been married she is all about experiences. We went on 6 vacas since june 2022 of last year. My monthly spending has been much higher than 10k in that time span but my point is people and doctors in general can do much better in their savings without depriving themselves to the degree they think.

 

[Neopolymath]

Sure. Agree on the happiness front. I wasn't traveling first class unless i got a free upgrade via Alaska those 5 years but i did visit one city per mo via flight and traveling was probably 1500 of my monthly budget. I also was 33 yo when i finished my "live like a resident" experiment so it sometimes depends a bit if you had interruptions or finished things quicker than most esp bs/md programs and having no gaps in training at any point. While young person things while young are great I'd rather be in a position to do rich people things while young like heli-skiing the past 2 winters which let me tell you is def. worth the experience.

This is a reasonable take and contains nuance unlike, dare I say, most WCI forum posts where people making 500k are driving ****boxes, reusing paper bags and bragging about how all their hobbies just *completely* by chance involves walking around local parks and free museums and that they would literally vomit if they decided to go to a nice restaurant lol.

Good for you on your discipline. I'm glad it paid off.

 

[Neopolymath]

The live like a resident mantra my mentors taught me was based on mostly spending money on things that improved your young attending busy life and then a few splurges that were reasonable. It didn't actually pretend that people who are 30+ years old and went through the gauntlet (with the scars to prove it) should live on 60k per year but more importantly force their kids and spouse to live on it either. They put up with your garbage career too.

Maybe it's ok if you marry a completely submissive miser wife but that creeps me out more that someone would put their family through that. Being cheap is like being an alcoholic in that it seems to be an addiction. That's my soapbox and hot take for the day.