How do you know where you stand?

[sapience8x]

I feel that I got favorable feedback when I was at my interviews but I haven't heard anything back from programs nor have I been invited back for second looks or anything. Does this mean that they are disinterested? I am a little concerned.

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[DarksideAllstar]

I usually can figure out where I am standing by doing one of two things:
1. Looking around at my immediate environment, or...
2. Asking someone

On a more serious note, you'll never know for certain where you stand. People can tell you what you want to hear (or you'll hear what you want to hear), but it doesn't mean anything. You should decide for yourself where you WANT to be for the next 4-6 years and make your list accordingly. For me this has been the most difficult thing as I think many programs offer equivalent opportunities with only minor differences; this has made it more of a location/environment issue (proximity to friends, familiarity with one place over another, weather, etc).

I haven't been invited back formally for any second looks, so I cant comment. I received one typed letter from a program saying that they hope I rank them highly or some nonsense, but I gather that this is more of a "standard" letter they send out. Nothing any program could say would make figuring out where I want to be any easier. Ugh, 2 short months to go...

 

[deleted113029]

yea, ucsf has it right on. i don't really think anyone asks you to return for a second visit, BUT if you want to go for a second visit then go for it. Most likely the reason for the lack of second visits right now is because they are still interviewing. And oh yeah, please relax! try to enjoy this holiday season. you might benefit from a trip to the liquor store.

on a side note, UCSF how was UWash?

 

[DarksideAllstar]

yea, ucsf has it right on. i don't really think anyone asks you to return for a second visit, BUT if you want to go for a second visit then go for it. Most likely the reason for the lack of second visits right now is because they are still interviewing. And oh yeah, please relax! try to enjoy this holiday season. you might benefit from a trip to the liquor store.

on a side note, UCSF how was UWash?

PM comin' your way...

 

[anencephalic]

You should decide for yourself where you WANT to be for the next 4-6 years and make your list accordingly. For me this has been the most difficult thing as I think many programs offer equivalent opportunities with only minor differences; this has made it more of a location/environment issue (proximity to friends, familiarity with one place over another, weather, etc).

I couldn't agree with this sentiment more...2 of my top 3 at this point, in my research and interview experience, almost seem interchangable with similar opportunities and settings (one doesn't offer integrated AP/CP, but that's not a big deal to me). It truly is a painful decision, but as my wife is quick to point out, if I match at one of my top three (actually, even top 6), we won't be disappointed.

On a separate note, the PD at Yale did tell our interview group that making a decision for residency is such a monumental decision that if it came down to choosing between Yale and "Program X", they'd be happy to fly you back for a second look at their expense (which I thought was pretty cool).

 

[Vaderize]

Hey Anencephalic, what'dya think of Allegheny General?

Nice place, wasn't it?

 

[anencephalic]

Hey V,

I actually ended up cancelling my interview there...I figured 10 was more than enough and I was beat by the end of my interview season.

How'd the rest of your season go?

Happy Holidays!

 

[Vaderize]

One left, Penn State Hershey in two weeks.

Looking forward to it, otherwise, the rest of my season went fine!

Merry Christmas

 

[cytoborg]

I feel that I got favorable feedback when I was at my interviews but I haven't heard anything back from programs nor have I been invited back for second looks or anything. Does this mean that they are disinterested? I am a little concerned.

Have you contacted the programs and expressed interest in them since your interview? I found that programs were pretty forthcoming about where I stood, especially after I let them know I was still interested in matching there. This communication occurred mid-late Jan., so it may be early yet. If you don't hear anything in the next couple of weeks, you might consider contacting your top programs and reiterating your interest.

As for 2nd looks, I was never invited on any, didn't go on any, couldn't afford to and didn't have time to. It's not big in pathology, and I think we'd all like to keep it that way, so don't worry if you don't hear anything from programs on this. The interview season is crazy enough (for programs AND applicants) without doubling interviews. (If you really truly can't make up your mind without a 2nd visit, by all means ask for one, for your own decision-making benefit...but it won't buy you brownie points with the committee.)

I concur with UCSFBound that you can't rely 100% on anything a program tells you...i.e. don't truncate your ranklist just because you're told you're ranked to match, unless you like living on the edge and are willing to scramble.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Based on my experience, a program will initiate contact with you after your interview if they like you. Now, if they don't initiate contact, you are more than welcome to and in fact encouraged to initiate contact. This does not guarantee anything but it can't hurt. Regardless of what may be the case, I would NOT, by any means, let this affect how you compose your rank list come this February.

Yes, there is a "cream of the crop" group of applicants that many of the programs vie for...but this represents a limited pool of people. More people have been applying to pathology since I applied so I don't know how the #'s that comprise the "cream of the crop" compare to the total # of spots at the coveted programs.

I realize that this is not what many people want to hear but this is the reality of the matter. Nonetheless, the whole match process is, to a large extent, a crapshoot so rank the programs as you see fit.

 

[Confused27]

Yeah, this whole process definitely seems to be a total crapshoot. I am glad that someone else thinks so, too

 

[Aubrey]

Hey Andy, want to co-author one of those cheesy "First Aid for Crushing the Match" type books and make some coin on the side? We could really cash in on this yearly angst, man. First chapter title: The Match is a Total Crapshoot.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey Andy, want to co-author one of those cheesy "First Aid for Crushing the Match" type books and make some coin on the side? We could really cash in on this yearly angst, man. First chapter title: The Match is a Total Crapshoot.

Haha...that first chapter should be the last chapter called, "Epilogue. Match = Crapshoot. Thanks for wasting your time in reading this book. May the force be with you."

 

[mlw03]

Haha...that first chapter should be the last chapter called, "Epilogue. Match = Crapshoot. Thanks for wasting your time in reading this book. May the force be with you."

PS - thank you for your $26.95.

what'd be even more valuable would be to get a tiny mic and place it in a few path conference rooms while they discussing ranking of applicants. i would looooooove to hear such a conversation and i'm sure others would too.

 

[Seriously1234]

has anyone heard anything from either stanford or uchicago regarding "where you stand"?

 

[deleted113029]

has anyone heard anything from either stanford or uchicago regarding "where you stand"?

Patience...young grasshopper.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

has anyone heard anything from either stanford or uchicago regarding "where you stand"?

OMGWTF? No...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Chicago puts a lot of effort into recruiting...if you're somebody they want, they will certainly contact you if they haven't already.

 

[Canter5503]

On a separate note, the PD at Yale did tell our interview group that making a decision for residency is such a monumental decision that if it came down to choosing between Yale and "Program X", they'd be happy to fly you back for a second look at their expense (which I thought was pretty cool).

Huh? Wow, you must have been in the "cream of the crop" group. Never got an offer like that from them when I was visiting. They didn't even pay for my flight the FIRST time, much less a second time

 

[veo1]

Huh? Wow, you must have been in the "cream of the crop" group. Never got an offer like that from them when I was visiting. They didn't even pay for my flight the FIRST time, much less a second time

I don't think its a matter of being in a "cream of the crop" group. Remember, you got to choose your interview date so its pretty random! When I interviewed there, the dept. chair did mention the fact that a second look would be on them but I think it was merely conversational and wasn't directed towards the group of applicants that day. I don't think they pay for anyone's first flight there, and I'm sure they don't contact ppl for second looks unless an applicant asks for one. I could be wrong. Either way I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[anencephalic]

Huh? Wow, you must have been in the "cream of the crop" group. Never got an offer like that from them when I was visiting. They didn't even pay for my flight the FIRST time, much less a second time

Nah...I doubt it. Like Veo said...it's all pretty random. I don't feel the need to take him up on the offer, either. I liked what I saw the first time around.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Huh? Wow, you must have been in the "cream of the crop" group. Never got an offer like that from them when I was visiting. They didn't even pay for my flight the FIRST time, much less a second time

Not necessarily...this is pretty much a standard offer; however, a lot of programs will not pay for the second visit.

In my experience, only two programs actually offered to pay for my second visit and that was WashU and Penn. But most programs will be happy to have you come for a 2nd visit if that will help you make the most informed decision.

 

[moodydoc]

Just wondering how people are handling the calls from chairpersons and PD? I have found it difficult to walk the fine line between not saying where they are in my list, that I enjoyed the interview day and thier program. Since I am planning to do a fellowship at a different place than my residency I am trying not to burn any bridges.

 

[sequela]

Just wondering how people are handling the calls from chairpersons and PD? I have found it difficult to walk the fine line between not saying where they are in my list, that I enjoyed the interview day and thier program. Since I am planning to do a fellowship at a different place than my residency I am try not to burn any bridges.

I am having a lot of trouble with this...I don't know how to navigate this situation. I have had contact with some PDs directly following the interview but now I am getting follow-up emails and it's hard to continue to say "I really enjoyed my interview" and not much else.

It's nearly Feb. so I assume they expect that you've come a little farther then that.

I too don't want to burn bridges.

Any advice from those of you who have been through this?

 

[mlw03]

Just wondering how people are handling the calls from chairpersons and PD? I have found it difficult to walk the fine line between not saying where they are in my list, that I enjoyed the interview day and thier program. Since I am planning to do a fellowship at a different place than my residency I am try not to burn any bridges.

i would imagine it's nice to feel the love a little. however i see the dilemma ya'll are dealing with. first, unless they flat out tell you that they're going to rank you to match, then my opinion is you owe them nothing. if they're just vague and say things like "we think you're a very strong candidate" or "we were really impressed by you" then that means nothing, and i say reply in turn "thank you, i found your program very impressive too, especially ____". if they do volunteer how they plan to rank you and they're not your #1, i again would think the vague response of "i plan to rank your program very highly, however i'm still working out the top of my list" would work. PDs aren't dumb and recognize that this means nothing, but there's nothing they can do about it and it's a diplomatic response that doesn't burn any bridges at that institution.

this is just an MS3's opinion - i'll too be curious to hear the replies of those who've gone through this already. less than 8 weeks to go till the match, right? enjoy the ride!

 

[HookeIsMyHero]

Does anyone know when programs finalize their rank lists? Do they wait until last minute or do it right after they finish interviewing?

 

[deleted113029]

Does anyone know when programs finalize their rank lists? Do they wait until last minute or do it right after they finish interviewing?

Based on what others and myself are experiencing, I believe programs' ROL are nearly finalized if not done. Some PDs would not be able to say things unless their ROL is nearly done...but again who knows until 3/15.

 

[sapience8x]

Based on what others and myself are experiencing, I believe programs' ROL are nearly finalized if not done. Some PDs would not be able to say things unless their ROL is nearly done...but again who knows until 3/15.

what are you experiencing? i am not experiencing a thing.... one email earlier in jan and i really did not have my list together then except i knew they weren't #1 so i wasn't sure what to say. i hope that i didn't give them the opinion that i wasn't interested especially since that's the only prog that has shown me love....

 

[Vaderize]

Listen, I haven't heard from anybody, and I'm not freaking out.

I don't think communication is a given by any means. Some programs will contact you, some will not. Some will wait until after their lists are in, some will not.

The flat-out program deadline for submitting their ROL, I believe, is 1/31, although don't quote me on that. People may not hear until February that they are highly sought after by a program, if at all.

 

[deleted113029]

what are you experiencing? i am not experiencing a thing.... one email earlier in jan and i really did not have my list together then except i knew they weren't #1 so i wasn't sure what to say. i hope that i didn't give them the opinion that i wasn't interested especially since that's the only prog that has shown me love....

Hey, sapience. I apologize for causing you any stress whatsoever. My response was just trying to shed light on when programs put together their ROL.

remember, there are some overachievers on this site (including myself ) who are experiencing a good interviewing season and are sharing information that should really be kept to ourselves, such as, "i've received love from many places that i don't know how to juggle them all without hurting some of them." sdn is a place where if you are stressed out about something, then that stress balloons out of proportion for no good reason.

 

[anencephalic]

remember, there are some overachievers on this site (including myself ) who are experiencing a good interviewing season and are sharing information that should really be kept to ourselves, such as, "i've received love from many places that i don't know how to juggle them all without hurting some of them."

I know what 'cha mean....Thank Heavens I've finalized my ROL; it's been tricky speaking with PD's and trying not to divulge too much (other than declaring my undying desire to be a res at my #1 program ) while trying not to burn bridges.

I, on the other hand, try to underacheive as much as possible...

 

[mapledale]

If I was ranked at # 5 in a program, but I ranked it as my top 1. This program only has 2 spots. What is the chance for me to get into this program?

 

[sapience8x]

Hey, sapience. I apologize for causing you any stress whatsoever. My response was just trying to shed light on when programs put together their ROL.

remember, there are some overachievers on this site (including myself ) who are experiencing a good interviewing season and are sharing information that should really be kept to ourselves, such as, "i've received love from many places that i don't know how to juggle them all without hurting some of them." sdn is a place where if you are stressed out about something, then that stress balloons out of proportion for no good reason.

nah don't worry about it- any stress is caused by myself and hearing about how poorly some of my classmates did in the sfmatch... i burned a hoel in my gut last week. this is a different week, I'm at peace! LOL!!!

 

[DarksideAllstar]

If I was ranked at # 5 in a program, but I ranked it as my top 1. This program only has 2 spots. What is the chance for me to get into this program?

That is impossible to know. You'd basically have to hope that 3 out of the 4 people above you ranked other programs higher on their ROL's (and matched to them) in order to have a shot.

 

[mapledale]

If program A has 3 slots, and I was put on its top 3 ROL. However, program A is my second choice; Another situation is program B has 2 slots, and it puts me on its 5th position on the ROL. However, program B is my first choice. If I put program B as top1 on my ROL, and put program A on top 2 of my ROL. do you guys think if I was not matched to program B, still I have chance to match to program A? Thanks

 

[DarksideAllstar]

If program A has 3 slots, and I was put on its top 3 ROL. However, program A is my second choice; Another situation is program B has 2 slots, and it puts me on its 5th position on the ROL. However, program B is my first choice. If I put program B as top1 on my ROL, and put program A on top 2 of my ROL. do you guys think if I was not matched to program B, still I have chance to match to program A? Thanks

Refer to my previous post for all future questions. Here I'll quote it for you:

That is impossible to know.

 

[CameronFrye]

If program A has 3 slots, and I was put on its top 3 ROL. However, program A is my second choice; Another situation is program B has 2 slots, and it puts me on its 5th position on the ROL. However, program B is my first choice. If I put program B as top1 on my ROL, and put program A on top 2 of my ROL. do you guys think if I was not matched to program B, still I have chance to match to program A? Thanks

If you are ranked to match at Program A, you don't match at Program B, and you have Program A ranked 2nd, you will match there.

The Match isn't some mysterious algorithm. It's an applicant proposed matching system that goes down your rank list. There is nothing complicated about it.

JUST RANK THEM IN THE ORDER THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

I will repeat:

JUST RANK THEM IN THE ORDER THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

There are no secrets to beating the computer.

JUST RANK THEM IN THE ORDER THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

 

[mapledale]

Thank you very much CameronFrye.

 

[moodydoc]

If program A has 3 slots, and I was put on its top 3 ROL. However, program A is my second choice; Another situation is program B has 2 slots, and it puts me on its 5th position on the ROL. However, program B is my first choice. If I put program B as top1 on my ROL, and put program A on top 2 of my ROL. do you guys think if I was not matched to program B, still I have chance to match to program A? Thanks

Refer to the following site:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Thank you very much CameronFrye.

Can I ask? Oh hell, I'm going to anyway. R U ******ed?

http://curbjaw.com/images/Forum/******ed.jpg

 

[yaah]

JUST RANK THEM IN THE ORDER THAT YOU LIKE THEM.
There are no secrets to beating the computer.

It's amazing how many people can't grasp this point. I guess it's the whole rampant proliferation of conspiracy theories in the world. Everything has to be a trick, or has to be manipulated, or is a system run by mysterious men in fedoras and dark glasses whose goal is the misery of all others. It's not. The match favors the applicant, it does not favor the program. The programs are at the whim of the applicant. If a program ranks someone #1 on their list, it doesn't mean a damn thing for the applicant except that if they rank them #1 (or if they rank them #2 and their #1 program filled before they got to them) they will match there.

There are no conspiracies. Move away from the mysterious rock formations.