What age is the oldest pathologist you know who is still working?

[KeratinPearls]

For me, its about 73-75. One guy is doing contractor work daily. Another guy is making money off of a group doing absolutely nada. Basically just shows up to work.

I’ve heard of stories of old pathologists still working in wheelchairs.

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[HeyDalaron]

70 something. Still works hard and is a total beast. Massive respect for them.

 

[cmz]

There is a guy at FPS who is >90. I know a few others that are 78 - 83. At least what I've seen.. they should have retired a long long time ago.

 

[KeratinPearls]

There is a guy at FPS who is >90. I know a few others that are 78 - 83. At least what I've seen.. they should have retired a long long time ago.

As long as your brains and eyes are still sharp I guess you can still practice.

One hemepath I trained with was in his 70s. He was not up to date with all the new classifications. I would imagine at that age keeping up with all the new classifications and molecular would be difficult.

Poor him… but they couldn’t just fire him since he was in the department for so many years.

 

[shikimate]

Some guy in his 70s applied to our job last year lol.
Why are these guys still working? Alimony? Do they not have something more fun to do?
I mean if I was that old I think some academic stuff like mentoring and teaching would be fun but definitely not grinding out slides

 

[KeratinPearls]

Some guy in his 70s applied to our job last year lol.
Why are these guys still working? Alimony? Do they not have something more fun to do?
I mean if I was that old I think some academic stuff like mentoring and teaching would be fun but definitely not grinding out slides

Money problems, divorce, mental problems (think addiction, compulsive spenders, gambling), multiple wives and children. Sad.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

83

 

[octopusprime]

Pathologists in the >70 age range are boomers. They trained in the golden era of medicine and made a killing in the 80s and 90s. They're also , personality wise, the old guard style of pathologists and a.) are likely to work until they die, b.) have had a career accumulating massive amounts of wealth relative to what we will see, and c.) have nothing better to do. For the love of God, retire, and don't sell your practice to a corporate lab.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Pathologists in the >70 age range are boomers. They trained in the golden era of medicine and made a killing in the 80s and 90s. They're also , personality wise, the old guard style of pathologists and a.) are likely to work until they die, b.) have had a career accumulating massive amounts of wealth relative to what we will see, and c.) have nothing better to do. For the love of God, retire, and don't sell your practice to a corporate lab.

Wait a minute. I thought the american dream was to sell out to corporate lab.

Another piece of advice. There is big money in stump grinding for those of you still looking for side hustles.

 

[ScubaV]

I know one guy in his 80s who's still involved with teaching/research, but hasn't signed out cases in years. I'm actually not sure if he gets paid at all or just does it for fun. Another guy is in his mid-late 70s and last I heard from former colleagues he's still working full time in a university setting.

I think this is a silent gen / boomer phenomenon. I can't imagine too many Gen X'ers and younger who want to die at the scope. I would certainly like to be retired by 60, sooner if possible, but I'm also not on the other end of the spectrum of grinding and living frugally so I can FIRE.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Wait a minute. I thought the american dream was to sell out to corporate lab.

Another piece of advice. There is big money in stump grinding for those of you still looking for side hustles.

View attachment 386991

The only side hustles that I can think of that use my medical degree are
medical director at shady plasma center
medical director at low testosterone clinic
medical director at fad weight loss center.

Why is it that all of the side hustles that Webb suggests make no use of any advanced degree, and at the same time seem more socially responsible and profitable?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

The only side hustles that I can think of that use my medical degree are
medical director at shady plasma center
medical director at low testosterone clinic
medical director at fad weight loss center.

Why is it that all of the side hustles that Webb suggests make no use of any advanced degree, and at the same time seem more socially responsible and profitable?

Because healthcare is full of quackery for one thing. Not sure how some in our profession look at themselves in the mirror. I encourage people to not be afraid to venture out of your comfort zone. Embrace diversity when i comes to your income sources.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Because healthcare is full of quackery for one thing. Not sure how some in our profession look at themselves in the mirror. I encourage people to not be afraid to venture out of your comfort zone. Embrace diversity when i comes to your income sources.

Agree you need to think outside of healthcare. Unfortunately, most doctors don't have a business mindset or the drive. You know that saying the "C students employ the A students" holds true. Thats why you have pathologists working for MBA business savvy types getting paid 250K a year while churning out revenue for them and making them rich.

 

[KeratinPearls]

The only side hustles that I can think of that use my medical degree are
medical director at shady plasma center
medical director at low testosterone clinic
medical director at fad weight loss center.

Why is it that all of the side hustles that Webb suggests make no use of any advanced degree, and at the same time seem more socially responsible and profitable?

You dont need an advanced degree to make money in America. Thats why this country is so great. Some eyebrow threading entrepreneurs with no education can make 400-800K a year in certain towns. An eyebrow threader in other countries will obviously make squat. You just need a drive that some people just dont have.

The VP of human resources at my hospital makes over 400K believe it or not. Its kinda depressing when you realize someone who has fewer years of education and training than you has a higher/equal salary than you.

 

[mike-sheree]

Pathologists in the >70 age range are boomers. They trained in the golden era of medicine and made a killing in the 80s and 90s. They're also , personality wise, the old guard style of pathologists and a.) are likely to work until they die, b.) have had a career accumulating massive amounts of wealth relative to what we will see, and c.) have nothing better to do. For the love of God, retire, and don't sell your practice to a corporate lab.

Would you suggest they settle for a gold watch and certificate of appreciation upon retirement?

 

[mike-sheree]

The only side hustles that I can think of that use my medical degree are
medical director at shady plasma center
medical director at low testosterone clinic
medical director at fad weight loss center.

Why is it that all of the side hustles that Webb suggests make no use of any advanced degree, and at the same time seem more socially responsible and profitable?

There are weekend cosmetic gynecology courses.

 

[octopusprime]

Would you suggest they settle for a gold watch and certificate of appreciation upon retirement?

I suggest they be content with their likely 8 figure retirement they've accumulated over the course of a career making likely at or near 7 figures annually and not flip a middle finger to the guy who's taking his seat who will be stuck making 1/4 to 1/3 the salary and tasked to do a hell of a lot more than what was expected of previous generations.
Maybe mike and his ilk had good business sense, maybe they were just beneficiaries of the system, more than likely it's somewhere in between, but don't act as if you built something from the ground up with your bare hands and people just don't have that skill set now. Medicine is not the same and the golden age of pathology is gone, and those fighting for scraps--at the feet of corporate labs, mega hospital systems and private lab sellout leftovers--have every right to be bitter.
So enjoy the icing on your already large and over-frosted cake.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I suggest they be content with their likely 8 figure retirement they've accumulated over the course of a career making likely at or near 7 figures and not flip a middle finger to the guy who's taking his seat who will be stuck making 1/4 to 1/3 the salary and tasked to do a hell of a lot more than what was expected of previous generations.
Maybe mike and his ilk had good business sense, maybe they were just beneficiaries of the system, more than likely it's somewhere in between, but don't act as if you built something from the ground up with your bare hands and people just don't have that skill set now. Medicine is not the same and the golden age of pathology is gone, and those fighting for scraps--at the feet of corporate labs, mega hospital systems and private lab sellout leftovers--have every right to be bitter.
So yes, enjoy the icing on your already large and over-frosted cake.

I don't want to knock Mike or anyone else who contributes to the forum, but I agree that most partners did not earn that title and were beneficiaries of nationwide practice trends and timing. There are so many partners who make out like they are some sort of Steve Jobs MD, when in really all they do is show up to work, sign out cases, and a hailstorm of money somehow falls on their heads.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I suggest they be content with their likely 8 figure retirement they've accumulated over the course of a career making likely at or near 7 figures annually and not flip a middle finger to the guy who's taking his seat who will be stuck making 1/4 to 1/3 the salary and tasked to do a hell of a lot more than what was expected of previous generations.
Maybe mike and his ilk had good business sense, maybe they were just beneficiaries of the system, more than likely it's somewhere in between, but don't act as if you built something from the ground up with your bare hands and people just don't have that skill set now. Medicine is not the same and the golden age of pathology is gone, and those fighting for scraps--at the feet of corporate labs, mega hospital systems and private lab sellout leftovers--have every right to be bitter.
So enjoy the icing on your already large and over-frosted cake.

Pathologic greed. Its never enough.

I know a pathologist similar to who you are describing. Probably has made a boat load of money in the 70s/80s onwards who is milking a group of money. Does nothing but collects a paycheck just because of seniority. Junior pathologists doing all the AP work, they just take money from the group and pay themselves.

Im assuming they are going to stay on the job until they die as the money is too good and too easy (essentially passive income). Who knows how many other income sources they may have. The money will probably be passed on to the grandchildren's trust fund lol.

These people most likely dont care whether they sell to corporate or not. They are in it for themselves and will sell to the highest bidder. These are the same people that will hire you for 150K as a junior pathologist if they can to make more money for themselves. An oversupply of pathologists benefits them as it depresses salaries and hence, more profit for them.

Of course, there are pathologists out there who are content with their 7 or 8 figure retirement and not sell to corporate but not everyone is a saint.

 

[cmz]

I just read a path report from a near octogenarian that read, "White tissue with fragments of lymphoid tissue within fibroadipose elements."

The case went to a consultant and their interpretation was, "Follicular lymphoma, Grade 1-2, follicular and diffuse pattern (see comment)."

Do you think this guy should retire?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I just read a path report from a near octogenarian that read, "White tissue with fragments of lymphoid tissue within fibroadipose elements."

The case went to a consultant and their interpretation was, "Follicular lymphoma, Grade 1-2, follicular and diffuse pattern (see comment)."

Do you think this guy should retire?

Which one, the octogenerian or the consultant?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Agree you need to think outside of healthcare. Unfortunately, most doctors don't have a business mindset or the drive. You know that saying the "C students employ the A students" holds true. Thats why you have pathologists working for MBA business savvy types getting paid 250K a year while churning out revenue for them and making them rich.

It's nice when you don't have the government or an insurer telling you what you can charge. Medicare isn't going to tell me how much I will get paid to remove a stump.

 

[octopusprime]

Every. Single. Solitary. Pathologist I know in their mid 70s to 80s is not some Juan Rosai / Steve Jobs hybrid....they're average pathologists, no better, no worse. Point being, you have to be extremely savvy, extremely lucky, or a Juan Rosai / Steve Jobs hybrid nowadays to land a job even remotely close to the average pathology job of the 80s - 90s...you could walk into a department--without fellowship certification in anything, just an "interest" in something like dermpath--and the job was yours. Corporate labs hadn't taken off yet. You could still bill for all the CP charges. You weren't losing all your GI, derm and GU to pod labs. It was literally the easiest route in medicine to becoming a multimillionaire by age 50.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I just read a path report from a near octogenarian that read, "White tissue with fragments of lymphoid tissue within fibroadipose elements."

The case went to a consultant and their interpretation was, "Follicular lymphoma, Grade 1-2, follicular and diffuse pattern (see comment)."

Do you think this guy should retire?

No reason to be an ageist. He probably didn't do any better when younger.

 

[cmz]

I suggest they be content with their likely 8 figure retirement they've accumulated over the course of a career making likely at or near 7 figures annually and not flip a middle finger to the guy who's taking his seat who will be stuck making 1/4 to 1/3 the salary and tasked to do a hell of a lot more than what was expected of previous generations.
Maybe mike and his ilk had good business sense, maybe they were just beneficiaries of the system, more than likely it's somewhere in between, but don't act as if you built something from the ground up with your bare hands and people just don't have that skill set now. Medicine is not the same and the golden age of pathology is gone, and those fighting for scraps--at the feet of corporate labs, mega hospital systems and private lab sellout leftovers--have every right to be bitter.
So enjoy the icing on your already large and over-frosted cake.

Everyone can suggest what they want to suggest. The bottom line is that if you want someone out, you need to figure out a way to make it happen. No one is going to go quietly into the night if they still feel they have something to contribute.

Which one, the octogenerian or the consultant?

The octo-baby...

 

[cmz]

No reason to be an ageist. He probably didn't do any better when younger.

True. I think that pathologist always signed cases out in that fashion. What gets me is how he lasted this long. I want to know the secret.

I work with 70+ year-old pathologists who still very much hold their own. They are well-off, of course, but they still derive satisfaction from working and being involved with patient care. I know they like their job because they can easily retire at a moment's notice, but they don't want to. I worry about the "hungry" octogenarian who needs a job to pay for his kid's college education or his 3rd wife's beach house. There I go being ageist again... I suppose that can apply to virtually anyone, even those of us still in their 30s and 40s.

 

[mike-sheree]

A small part of my becoming a partner after 4 years was the fact that I delivered and maintained 2 hospital contracts prior to paying my 6 figure buy-in.

 

[octopusprime]

True. I think that pathologist always signed cases out in that fashion. What gets me is how he lasted this long. I want to know the secret.

I work with 70+ year-old pathologists who still very much hold their own. They are well-off, of course, but they still derive satisfaction from working and being involved with patient care. I know they like their job because they can easily retire at a moment's notice, but they don't want to. I worry about the "hungry" octogenarian who needs a job to pay for his kid's college education or his 3rd wife's beach house. There I go being ageist again... I suppose that can apply to virtually anyone, even those of us still in their 30s and 40s.

Sure, and I can envision many of us being ABLE to work into our 70s, but the problem is that the vast majority of folks in that "OG pathologist" age group COULD retire and derive pleasure from something else, but they are either a.) incapable of being normal non-pathologist humans and finding purpose in life outside the lab, or b.) fixated on the 'acquire as much wealth as possible' mentality or are 'hungry octogenarians'. Meanwhile, the folks early / mid career pathology are generally of a different mindset but to achieve a retirement even remotely similar to the prior generations will be required to work into their 70s given inflation, decreasing reimbursement, and lower salaries, or accept the fact that retiring at a normal retirement age--let alone early-- (both options I think the current generation of pathologists are more inclined towards personality wise) will not afford the kind of retirement that the prior generations were afforded. Which isn't the fault of crusty old pathologists, other than them contributing to the problem by padding their already ridiculous retirement accounts. Yes, that's "capitalism" and "The American Way" and the epitome of the "medicine is business" mantra, but that doesn't mean it's required or exemplary. And it's not limited to pathology for sure.

Whatever, it's fine, this is fine. I'm just venting and can't do anything about it anyway. At some point, I imagine we'll all be employed by Brawndo.

 

[Med Director New England]

81

 

[ScubaV]

People can certainly be competent or incompetent regardless of age, but when I need to see a physician/dentist/optometrist I specifically look for someone who seems like they're mid-career (late 30s to early-mid 50s). I want someone with real world seasoning, but still flexible enough to keep up with and utilize the latest practice guidelines.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Sure, and I can envision many of us being ABLE to work into our 70s, but the problem is that the vast majority of folks in that "OG pathologist" age group COULD retire and derive pleasure from something else, but they are either a.) incapable of being normal non-pathologist humans and finding purpose in life outside the lab, or b.) fixated on the 'acquire as much wealth as possible' mentality or are 'hungry octogenarians'. Meanwhile, the folks early / mid career pathology are generally of a different mindset but to achieve a retirement even remotely similar to the prior generations will be required to work into their 70s given inflation, decreasing reimbursement, and lower salaries, or accept the fact that retiring at a normal retirement age--let alone early-- (both options I think the current generation of pathologists are more inclined towards personality wise) will not afford the kind of retirement that the prior generations were afforded. Which isn't the fault of crusty old pathologists, other than them contributing to the problem by padding their already ridiculous retirement accounts. Yes, that's "capitalism" and "The American Way" and the epitome of the "medicine is business" mantra, but that doesn't mean it's required or exemplary. And it's not limited to pathology for sure.

Whatever, it's fine, this is fine. I'm just venting and can't do anything about it anyway. At some point, I imagine we'll all be employed by Brawndo.

Very few people are going to do as well as the previous generation in many fields.

 

[Sawback3]

I worry about the "hungry" octogenarian who needs a job to pay for his kid's college education or his 3rd wife's beach house. There I go being ageist again... I suppose that can apply to virtually anyone, even those of us still in their 30s and 40s.

The few hungry octogenarians I've seen are like this. A couple have 6+ grandchildren and want to rake in as much as humanly possible before dying (my theory). Might be evolutionary. Have to see what I am like at that age.

 

[EmbryonalCarcinoma]

I know a practicing pathologist in their 90s

 

[caffeinegirl]

When one of the pathologists from my former group retired in his 70's, he publicly said "well now I can get my cataracts fixed".

 

[Zarniwoop]

I know a practicing pathologist in their 90s

 

[mike-sheree]

The dot com bust of ~2000-2001 kept a number of pathologists working who lost big sums they gained from the flurry of practice sales in the ‘90’s. Then the 2007-2009 debacle cleaned out more. Add those to the perennial fortune busters such as multiple divorces and you have a bunch of old pathologists.

 

[coroner]

75-78ish (per diem)

The dot com bust of ~2000-2001 kept a number of pathologists working who lost big sums they gained from the flurry of practice sales in the ‘90’s. Then the 2007-2009 debacle cleaned out more. Add those to the perennial fortune busters such as multiple divorces and you have a bunch of old pathologists.

Add the Covid-19 pandemic. Volume dropped significantly for 6mo.-1yr, and many who were already contemplating retirement took the pandemic as a sign to call it quits...

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Did any pathologists steal covid relief funding?

 

[mike-sheree]

75-78ish (per diem)


Add the Covid-19 pandemic. Volume dropped significantly for 6mo.-1yr, and many who were already contemplating retirement took the pandemic as a sign to call it quits...

They were already “older” in my book.😂