I have been wondering since the pharmacy school tuition is skyrocketing. How do you pay for it? NO NO Don't mention the student loans that will keep you in debt forever. Today pharmD grad student has 110k loans in average. I wanted to know from future pharmacy students or grad how would you pay for Pharmacy school today ??????
HOW DO YOU PAY FOR PHARMACY SCHOOL. NO LOANS
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You really need to stop. Do you make it your mission to portray the field of pharmacy like living hell? Sure it's not the easiest thing to pursue but most jobs such as engineering, physician assistant, accounting are also not easy to obtain and require that the individual be exceptionally well in math, economics, etc. As with any profession, with sacrifice and hard work, it will pay off in the end. I've seen u post nothing but pessimistic and discouraging comments on this forum while this place is all about HELPING and ENCOURAGING each other. I don't know what happened to you personally that made you so dry and "disgusted" about the field but you're not helping even though you think you are. You're coming off as a troll to put it in better words. If people genuinely like the field, who are you to stop them and warn them of your "nightmare" and not their reality.
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Go to in state school with 60k tuition. Saved up 3 years worth of tuition cash.
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Firstly, I find it commendable that you are trying to avoid student loans. Student loans are really, in my opinion, pure evil. These should really be avoided.
Many pharmacy schools today are extremely expensive. One new Pharmacy school in CA (Chapman) has a 70K a year tuition stamp!
While Stoichimetrist in his post above said "Don't go to Pharmacy School" - he's right in some ways. If you are not willing to join USPHS or some military service like Doctor Mario helpfully suggested, or go out of your way and make big sacrifices to avoid student debt, then Pharmacy is not the career for you. Student debt will cripple you for the initial years of your career.
What I suggest is to be creative and look for unconventional ways to pay for Pharmacy school. The USPHS is one such option, but, you are committing time to the Army, and that life is not for everyone.
One things is that many states have loan repayment programs - in exchange for working in rural areas. I don't think anyone tried this - so perhaps emailing program directors and commiting to them upfront in exchange for paying Pharmacy school tuition. Sure, it sounds like a long shot, but there is a whole list of programs - it's worth a try.
The second thing is going to a state public Pharmacy school. These are much cheaper, and will help tremendously.
Finally, I know one post felt a little offended about the post by stoichiometrist. I understand that. Some people have a real passion for Pharmacy and can't see themselves doing anything else. However, I firmly beleive that stoichimetrist has a lot of sense in what he is saying. There are similar careers like doing a PhD in Pharmacy (which seems to have a strong market), that one can pursue. Additionally, the job market for Chemists (in certain areas, and at the PhD level) is very strong right now.
Yes, I know that's not the same. Again, I feel people if they can see themselves doing nothing else but pharmacy, but taking loans isn't the right course of action in my opinon.
Areas such as Computing (at the PhD level) start off with a close salary and much better job security, if finances are important to you in a career.
Another course of action is working for a couple of years and building capital, and then going down the Pharmacy route at the cheapest institution possible - however, these plans seldom work.
Many pharmacy schools today are extremely expensive. One new Pharmacy school in CA (Chapman) has a 70K a year tuition stamp!
While Stoichimetrist in his post above said "Don't go to Pharmacy School" - he's right in some ways. If you are not willing to join USPHS or some military service like Doctor Mario helpfully suggested, or go out of your way and make big sacrifices to avoid student debt, then Pharmacy is not the career for you. Student debt will cripple you for the initial years of your career.
What I suggest is to be creative and look for unconventional ways to pay for Pharmacy school. The USPHS is one such option, but, you are committing time to the Army, and that life is not for everyone.
One things is that many states have loan repayment programs - in exchange for working in rural areas. I don't think anyone tried this - so perhaps emailing program directors and commiting to them upfront in exchange for paying Pharmacy school tuition. Sure, it sounds like a long shot, but there is a whole list of programs - it's worth a try.
The second thing is going to a state public Pharmacy school. These are much cheaper, and will help tremendously.
Finally, I know one post felt a little offended about the post by stoichiometrist. I understand that. Some people have a real passion for Pharmacy and can't see themselves doing anything else. However, I firmly beleive that stoichimetrist has a lot of sense in what he is saying. There are similar careers like doing a PhD in Pharmacy (which seems to have a strong market), that one can pursue. Additionally, the job market for Chemists (in certain areas, and at the PhD level) is very strong right now.
Yes, I know that's not the same. Again, I feel people if they can see themselves doing nothing else but pharmacy, but taking loans isn't the right course of action in my opinon.
Areas such as Computing (at the PhD level) start off with a close salary and much better job security, if finances are important to you in a career.
Another course of action is working for a couple of years and building capital, and then going down the Pharmacy route at the cheapest institution possible - however, these plans seldom work.
Please elaborate a bit more. thanks
Thanks for your insights. I just wanted to point something out to you about USPHS. You see? it's quite automatic we only think USPHS as the only way to fully pay for college or change major. Pharmacy is such a great career and I found it really unfair that the only way to get college paid it's the military. I believe you should join the US military for the LOVE you have for it. Not the benefits. Also saddening to know tuition always rising. I definitely appreciate your input. Hopefully, we will have other's opinions on this matter. BTW I am one of those that never thought about anything else but Pharmacy. Maybe engineering Biomedical I don't know. now I am waiting on Pharmacy schools admissions. Regards
I don't know why everyone blasts Chapman for their tuition, it's the same, if not cheaper than other CA private schools. It's 70K for 2 years, then 45K for the third year.
I was almost apprehensive applying to Chapman because of what people say on here, but thankfully I looked more into it (that school is convenient for me since I live 10 mins away, so that's my major draw). But I applied and got a 15% scholarship (for GPA), which brings the tuition down to about 157K. I'm also getting more scholarships from the college I'm in, and going to be applying for fellowships at Chapman.
When compared to a CA school everyone raves about (Western, with a 192K total tution), I don't know why Chapman gets so much slack.
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Chapman gets blasted for being a new school (amongst others resulting in a saturation in an already OVER-SATURATED AREA) with low acceptance standards and high tuition.
Never heard of that school But I guess it's not one of the best pharm school out there. expensive like that ??????? WTH
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Most schools in Texas are still cheap for in state tuition. Like 60-70k total for all 4 years.
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Go to the cheapest pharmacy school possible, work while you're in school, and then live like a student for a few years after graduation and that debt will be either gone or you'll have paid off a vast majority of it. The only problem is you'll have to sacrifice a lot to make it happen and few are willing to do so. Student loans are not bad (I'm not saying they're good) if you know how to manage debt.
Yes exactly why I have applied to UT, A&M, UH, TECH. fingers crossed.
Ok thanks for your insights. With this bad economy, it's not helping. Live as a student for how long ?
When a lot of pre-pharms say that they are passionate about pharmacy and cannot imagine themselves doing anything else, they refer to the rare cushy clinical or industry positions in their metro area of choice. Their passion for pharmacy excludes anything retail and/or a job more than 50 miles from their desired metro area.
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I think Chapman is an amazing institution by all means. However, in this job market 70K is not justifiable. I didn't know that other CA schools had similar tuition though, so thanks for the information. One thing that sounds terrible about Chapman though is that it literally drowns students in debt. 70K tuition plus whatever the living expenses and everything else are - that's just wrong.
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Student Loans makes me sick worried..I don't know if I should be this worried as look forward to be in pharmacy school next year.The school I got in is 45k/yr...I honestly don't know if this is expensive. I really hope it's worth it(for my damn life) lol
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Anywhere between 0-5 years depending on multiple factors such as your salary (and availability of OT hours), the cost of living in your town/city, your willingness to sacrifice, and the amount of loans you take out. This is assuming that everything is in moderation, which is a big assumption to begin with.
45k/year is quite expensive.
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I will see what schools will accept me(currently waiting for interviews)...and go for the cheaper I guess. I really don't want to wait another year hoping to get in cheaper school.
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Well, congratulations on your acceptance nonetheless. Getting into Pharmacy school is a tremendous achievement.
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Not really. Student loan interest starts on the first day the loan is distributed. So even tho the total tuition is the same, you will end up graduating with a lot more debt and since you will be paying this off over 10-20 years, it really adds up.
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I understand that. It's definitely a hefty price. But what's the alternative? Not get an education? Find a cheaper school? We're talking about 40-50K differences in price (what's the average tuition? ).
I'm fortunate enough to have saved to cover most my tuition, and I own a condo in So. Cal, so the location of the school was my biggest factor, and Chapman is by far in the best/cleanest location of all school in the LA/OC area. Not matter what people say about high tuition, ultimately it's there own choice, and an education, especially a PharmD is priceless IMO.
Even if you do get into Chapman, do realize that you're living in one of the most saturated areas. There are already pretty much no jobs already in SoCal, and it's going to get much worse as WCU, KGI, and Ketchum all graduate their first class. Be prepared to sell or rent out that condo and relocate to find a job.
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I already have a job once I graduate; I appreciate your concerns, though.
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You are going to make bank. By the time you graduate, pharmacists will probably make $200 k a year. Congrats. You will become a multimillionaire.
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Thanks. I have no doubt in my mind that I will be.
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That's very commendable. I'm personally a huge opponent of student loans, and I respect the fact that you took the initiative to save up for your tuition. If you're going to Chapman without student loans, know that you're getting a state of the art and top of the line education. At that point, the name "Chapman" means nothing compared to what you make of it and what you do there. I wish you only the best.
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While this may have been a joke, through effective leadership by the AACP and other organizations, 200K+ salaries can become the new norm for Pharmacists I feel. This will mean regulating the field more, and lowering supply of course.
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Thanks
Thanks; I really respect your positive outlook. I don't understand all the negative Nancy's on here trying to discourage people from getting into Pharmacy. Are you guys really worried these new pharmacist will take your jobs? What's the issue?
I come from a family the creates jobs, as apposed to hunting for jobs. My father has been a Pharmacist since 1978, and he's had an extremely successful career, in which he created many jobs for Pharmacist, techs, and clerks. When I come back here in 5-7 years I hope to be encouraging the new generation of pharmacist with that same positive outlook.
Unfortunately some of you people on here make becoming a Pharmacist seem like it's a dead end, non-respectable career. Pharmacy is a highly respectable career choice with many options. Stop trying to convince people otherwise.
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Finally a positive vibe!! Thank you for your perspective...I admire how you said "creating jobs" I hope to be that person who owns a pharmacy!! We need more people like you!!
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There is some truth though, despite all the negativity.. the saturation in Cali is real, unless you have some kind of relation to a pharmacist such as rumzh above. Dang you're fortunate for having a father that owns a pharmacy! lucky
! lucky
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Go to: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930253/
INTRODUCTION
The cost of pharmacy school and the related issue of student loan debt is at the forefront of issues plaguing higher education.1 The question of whether college is worth the financial investment has even been raised.2The cost of pharmacy education continues to rise with average tuition rates near $25,000 per year (public and private combined).3 These tuition increases have led to sizable debt loads for graduates entering the workforce, with the average student loan debt reaching $123,063 in 2012.4 The critical question that prospective student pharmacists must ask is whether future salaries will be sufficient to provide the necessary return on investment for their pharmacy education.
The profession of pharmacy is not alone in this regard; there are similar concerns within the fields of medicine and dentistry.5-8 The average annual tuition and fees for medical schools in 2011-2012 (public and private) was $39,500, while total student indebtedness was on average $161,290 (2010 data).9,10Likewise, the dental profession has even higher figures, with the average annual tuition and fees in 2011 at $42,737 and average student indebtedness at $203,374 in 2011.11,12
In order to answer the question regarding whether the investment in professional education will pay off in financial terms, the current job markets and salary surveys must also be analyzed. According to workforce reports from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook Handbook,13 all 3 professions are currently in a shortage situation. The average growth rate for all occupations for the years 2010-2020 is projected to be 14%; whereas the rate of growth for these professions is considered faster than average (physicians, 24%; dentists, 21%; and pharmacists, 25%). During this same timeframe, the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates new job projections of 168,300 for physicians, 32,200 for dentists, and 69,700 for pharmacists.
While these data present a picture of optimism and growth for the profession of pharmacy, some within the profession recognize that these job projections and salary data are likely to change because of the increased number of expected pharmacy graduates in the next 5 years. The aging baby boomer generation may increase the need for healthcare professionals in the near future, but this generation will eventually decline in numbers. There is reasonable debate regarding future job growth and potential oversaturation of the pharmacist labor market.14,15 Subjective reports of salary declines and decreased job openings are becoming more pronounced. Increased emphasis on reengineering the skills and competencies of graduating and practicing pharmacists is a common objective of most colleges and schools of pharmacy in order to expand the role of the pharmacist in the healthcare setting. While these important initiatives are underway, what does it mean currently for pharmacists who have significant student loans with potential slowing of salary increases? The hypothesis of this study was that key pharmacy tuition, debt, and salary data indicate a decline in the overall return on investment of pharmacy education.
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METHODS
Data were collected from a variety of sources and analyzed through several different measures. For comparison’s sake, similar data for medical and dental education were also collected and analyzed. Pharmacy tuition data were obtained through the AACP Institutional Research website.16 Tuition throughout this paper is defined as the average first-year tuition and mandatory fees for all accredited pharmacy schools during the respective year. Medicine and dentistry tuition figures were obtained from National Center of Education Statistics.17
Pharmacy student loan amounts were obtained through the AACP Institutional Research website18 in the annual AACP Graduating Student Survey Reports. Student loan amounts are reported as the average amount borrowed by respondents of the survey.
Median salaries and numbers of jobs for each occupation were obtained through a search of the United States Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook Handbook website.13
A Salary:Indebtedness Index (SII) was developed as a basic surrogate measure for potential return on investment for pharmacy, dental, and medical education. This index was used to determine if changes in tuition were concomitant with changes in salary. The SII was calculated by dividing the average salary for a year by the respective average indebtedness of the student.
For illustration purposes, student loan repayment schedules were provided for 3 different interest rate scenarios using the extended repayment plan (required for federal loans exceeding $30,000). Total cost of loans and minimum monthly payments were calculated for loans at 5%, 8%, and 11%. These interest rates were chosen to reflect a range of possible rates being paid. Total costs were calculated for a standard repayment plan (120 months) and an extended fixed repayment plan (300 months). Calculations were computed using the federal student loan comparison calculator.19
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RESULTS
The cost of tuition at both public (Figure 1) and private pharmacy schools (Figure 2) within the United States has increased steadily. A linear relationship was found for the increasing average cost of tuition at public schools over the last 8 years (Figure 1). In-state tuition at public schools rose an average of $1,211 ± $31 (r2 = 0.996), whereas out-of-state tuition at public schools rose significantly faster (p<0.05) at $1,838 ± $80 per year (r2 = 0.988). A similar linear increase in private school tuition was observed as well (Figure 2). However, the in-state tuition increase per year ($1,475 ± 32; r2 = 0.997) was not significantly different than the out-of-state tuition increase ($1,509 ± 32; r2 = 0.997). The rate of tuition increases at public schools was significantly greater (p<0.05) than that of private schools. The average tuition cost for pharmacy school has increased 54% in the last 8 years.
Figure 1.
The cost of in-state and out-of-state tuition at public pharmacy schools within the United States. Average tuition represents the mean tuition from all schools of pharmacy combined.
Figure 2.
The cost of in-state and out-of-state tuition at private pharmacy schools within the United States. Average tuition represents the mean tuition from all schools of pharmacy combined.
While tuition has increased substantially in 8 years, the average pharmacist salary has risen at approximately the same rate (49% increase from 2002-2010). In Figure 2 the average salary of a pharmacist (Figure 3) and the total number of pharmacist jobs (Figure 4) in the United States over the last 10 years are shown. The average pharmacist salary has risen from $75,000 in 2002 to over $112,000 in 2012 (Figure 3).13 Of interest, the increase in salary has been nearly linear (r2=0.988) rising $4,409 ± $170 per year. However, the average pharmacist salary in 2011 was $3,064 below the predicted value (95% confidence limit) based upon a linear regression of salaries over the previous 10 years (Table 1). The number of pharmacist jobs in the United States has risen from a low of 215,000 jobs in 2003 to a high of 275,000 in 2010 (Figure 4). However, there were 3,000 fewer positions in 2012 than in 2011.13
Figure 3.
Average salary of a pharmacist in the United States over the last 10 years.
Figure 4.
Total number of pharmacist jobs in the United States over the last 10 years.
Table 1.
Yearly Average Pharmacist Salaries in Relationship to Their Predicted Salary
The increase in salary and number of jobs is not unique to the profession of pharmacy. The average salary of a health care professional in the United States over the last 10 years is shown in Figure 5 and the total number of health care professional jobs during that time is shown in Figure 6. Similar to the field of pharmacy, which had an approximate 49% increase in mean salary, all other health care professions examined in this study also had an increase in mean salary over the last 10 years (Figure 5). For comparison, internists have experienced an approximate 31% increase in salary ($158,000-$189,000 dollars). Similar to pharmacy, there has been significant growth in physical therapy jobs from 130,000 to 185,000 jobs over the last 10 years. Remaining health care professions saw little growth in total job numbers, staying within 10% of their starting number (Figure 6).
Figure 5.
Average salary of a health care professional in the United States over the last 10 years.
Figure 6.
Total number of health care professional jobs in the United States over the last 10 years.
Concurrent to the increases in tuition and salaries, student indebtedness also has increased over the last 5 years (Figure 7). While graduating pharmacy students had the second lowest student debt amount of $123,063, the amount of money that pharmacy students have borrowed to go to school has risen the fastest in the last 5 years (23%) compared to medical (4.7%) and dental students (8.5%). For illustrative purposes, total cost of loan scenarios were calculated for various interest rates and repayment schedules. Depending upon the scenario, total loan repayment amount for the average student loan debt could be as much as $361,847 (Table 2). As a measure for potential return on investment for pharmacy, dental, and medical education, we calculated the ratio between the average salary for a year and the respective average indebtedness of the student (SII ratio, described in methods). Table 3 shows that from 2008-2010, the first year in which the salary of a pharmacy graduate was greater than their total student-related indebtedness (reflected by numbers >1.0). However, in 2011 average indebtedness for pharmacy students ($114,422) was greater than the average first-year salary ($112,160) resulting in an SII of less than 1.0. Of note, the SII for medical students for the last 5 years was greater than 1.0 and for dental students was lower than 1.0 (Table 3).
Figure 7.
Trends in average graduating student indebtedness from 2008 to 2012, for three major health professions.
Table 2.
Total Cost of Student Loan Scenarios
Table 3.
The Salary to Indebtedness Index
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DISCUSSION
Pharmacy college and school tuition and pharmacy student indebtedness increased considerably over the last decade. Salaries and number of jobs have increased for all the health professions, but there are some interesting aspects of the data pertaining to pharmacy alone. Although tuition has increased in a linear fashion, salaries and available positions have not increased at the same rate. The rates of tuition increase for public institutions suggest that these types of institutions are shifting more of the cost burden to students. Student indebtedness may be the most troublesome finding of this study. In 2011 the SII for pharmacy dropped below the 1.0 mark for the first time, indicating a potential decrease in the return on investment of a pharmacy education. Compared with medicine and dentistry, pharmacy’s SII has decreased the most. Whether this decrease is the beginning of a trend is unknown, as is the question of whether promising students will begin to reconsider pharmacy as a profession and choose another field such as medicine. Perhaps most disturbing, pharmacy students’ total debt increased 23% in the last 5 years, compared to only 4.7% and 8.5% for medical and dental students, respectively. Based on the average pharmacy student debt at graduation and depending on the terms, the total payout including interest for loan repayment could be in excess of $360,000. While most students’ total payback cost will be less than this, the dollar amount is still concerning. Reasons for the dramatic increase in pharmacy student debt load as compared to that experienced by other health professions students are not entirely clear. However, the authors speculate that rising tuition and subsequent student indebtedness is multi-faceted, arising from decisions within the academy, the accrediting bodies, governmental agencies, and faculty and student culture. Multiple questions arise from consideration of these issues. Have extensive accreditation requirements increased the direct and indirect cost of pharmacy education, particularly as applied to the experiential component? Has the academy engaged in an “arms race” in which pharmacy colleges and schools compete among themselves to provide the best marketing approach, state of the art facilities, and cutting edge technologies, effectively increasing the cost of education? Have government regulations played a role in increased indebtedness because of loan eligibility, interest rates, repayment rates, and deferment criteria? How much has decreased state funding to public institutions deflected education costs to students and their families? Have faculty members designed curricula that limit the amount of free time students have to obtain employment, even during winter and summer breaks? Finally, have students themselves opted for better lifestyles during pharmacy school at the expense of increased debt upon graduation? All of these questions deserve further study as to their potential effects on tuition and debt increases.
Although this paper provides a somewhat detailed analysis of the landscape of tuition, student debt, and salaries, it is not without limitations. First, tuition data obtained is in aggregate form and does not differentiate among programs of different lengths. Similarly, available pharmacist salary data is in aggregate form and does not account for differences in region, years of experience, type of practice setting, etc. When calculating some of the formulas, averages were used, which did not take into consideration the wide differences among individuals.
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CONCLUSION
The increasing cost of pharmacy education in the United States is a growing concern and action is required to ensure that the best and brightest students are not deterred from pharmacy education by concerns of insurmountable debt after graduation. Rising tuition and increased student indebtedness is most likely a multifaceted issue that has origins within the academy, the accreditation process, federal and state governments, universities, and finally, student and faculty culture. This issue requires further exploration to assess causes and solutions to prevent the problem from growing.
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by far the best advice. Pharmacy school is literally one of the worst choices you can do with your life
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You shouldn't be going to school in CA at all. It's too expensive and a ripoff. Move out of state to get ur pharmD for 40% of the price then move back to CA if you wanna work there.
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"especially a PharmD is priceless IMO"
A pharmD is one of the most worthless "doctorates" one can earn in 2016
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While I disagree with many of your posts - I take it that you have the best of intentions. Any career where you're getting into 100K + debt, and then can't pay it back (or even can pay it back eventually), is a bad decision. In that sense, other careers offer good alternatives. People need to know what they are getting into.
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45k a year!?!? I don't think it's worth it lol. Good luck though. My school is like $15k per year
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15k?!!!! wow that's a good deal...wait which state? Here is Cali even the public ones are 35k/yr and the rest 45k-75k is a pretty standard price for California pharmacy schools. Which school do u go to?
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Texas. It's not too bad out here for about 3 schools if you're getting in state tuition.
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That's true - but TX schools are harder to get into and getting residency status takes time.
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If you're going to be living on your own and paying for your own living expenses while attending pharmacy school and you don't have a rich mom and pops to foot any of the bills, it's almost inevitable that you'll have loans of some magnitude whether large or small. Just like others have suggested though, I would start off with in-state schools. After that, once you're in school, talk with others and find out what job is paying the most for interns and go after it (4 years ago Safeway Pharmacy was paying me $20+/hr). Maybe you can put a dent in the loans while working and going to school at the same time. End all be all, the loan payments are extremely affordable even on a 10 year payback schedule + you'll be earning enough to throw even more at the loans than that. If you're stuck between student loans vs. not going to pharmacy school, you really should run the numbers.
Just some clarifications on USPHS. It's not the army, you won't owe time to the army. They are separate services.
They will not pay for your tuition. There is a (very competitive) SR COSTEP program where they will pay you the equivalent of military O-1 pay during your P4 year in exchange for a 2-year commitment to a specific site (usually IHS or BOP) after graduation. They do not offer loan forgiveness at all.
Certain sites that you can work for within USPHS can offer you loan forgiveness. As far as I know, only IHS offers it. The loan forgiveness is not guaranteed, it depends on how badly that site needs pharmacists and then it is $20,000/year pre-tax for a minimum 2 year commitment. After the 2 years are up then it can be renewed on yearly basis. That loan forgiveness is not unique to USPHS. You can also get the loan forgiveness at those same sites by working as civil service pharmacist there.
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Thanks for the correction. That is correct. Appreciate you.
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