How do you reconcile...

[NontradCA]

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The fact that medicine is held to such a high standard and that most of the people you come in contact with daily are held to none. I find the standard similar to that of the military, and when it comes to customer service the patient always comes first no matter what. Well, have you ever tried to get customer service in any other industry? Basically you're told to **** off, and then those same people will demand premium healthcare from you.
I know I'm ranting but how can you all see how bad people are and then keep a straight face?

 

[colbgw02]

I internalize it. I don't conceptualize my job as something I do because people need, want, or deserve it. I do it because I agreed to do it and I, therefore, have a duty to fulfill that obligation. Deontological and normative, I suppose, but there it is.

 

[Brain Bucket]

^probably the only way to keep yourself sane.

 

[tco]

Because I know in 360 days, I'll be seeing images instead of patients.

 

[NontradCA]

I internalize it. I don't conceptualize my job as something I do because people need, want, or deserve it. I do it because I agreed to do it and I, therefore, have a duty to fulfill that obligation. Deontological and normative, I suppose, but there it is.

I get that, but do you think that by taking this approach that you're impacting others? Specifically, do you think that others look to you as an example of morality? I've often found that people will take as much as they can while giving as little as they can.

 

[DermViser]

The fact that medicine is held to such a high standard and that most of the people you come in contact with daily are held to none. I find the standard similar to that of the military, and when it comes to customer service the patient always comes first no matter what. Well, have you ever tried to get customer service in any other industry? Basically you're told to **** off, and then those same people will demand premium healthcare from you.
I know I'm ranting but how can you all see how bad people are and then keep a straight face?

It's called being a "professional". Medicine and physicians are held to a much higher standard by the general public which goes beyond the legal standard. You will get TONS of lectures on this, trust me. And if you're like most of us, you'll hate every second of it.

Edit: And now you know why Radiology and Pathology exist.

 

[colbgw02]

I get that, but do you think that by taking this approach that you're impacting others? Specifically, do you think that others look to you as an example of morality? I've often found that people will take as much as they can while giving as little as they can.

I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I mean, I don't advertise or proselytize, so I think I'm only an example inasmuch as people bother to observe my actions, which I don't think can be distinguished from someone functioning under a different ethic. Regarding the bolded, are you speaking of patients/customers?

 

[NontradCA]

I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I mean, I don't advertise or proselytize, so I think I'm only an example inasmuch as people bother to observe my actions, which I don't think can be distinguished from someone functioning under a different ethic. Regarding the bolded, are you speaking of patients/customers?

Patients. You're spending so much time with them (cumulatively), so I'm wondering if you think your sense of duty will be something the not take for granted.

 

[DermViser]

Patients.

Be lucky you're getting real exposure to what medicine is like now. Too many people don't get that exposure (on purpose or not) and are shocked when they enter MS-3.

 

[NontradCA]

It's called being a "professional". Medicine and physicians are held to a much higher standard by the general public which goes beyond the legal standard. You will get TONS of lectures on this, trust me. And if you're like most of us, you'll hate every second of it.

Edit: And now you know why Radiology and Pathology exist.

True, but I tend to idealize the patient physician relationship to be mutually committed. So there should be some standard for the patient.

 

[DermViser]

True, but I tend to idealize the patient physician relationship to be mutually committed. So there should be some standard for the patient.

Keyword here: idealize

Patients (and their families) esp. in teaching hospitals have been known to violently assault healthcare workers (doctors/nurses) after which nothing happens (no assault charges, lawsuit, nothing) due to a bad outcome. Your idealized view of the patient-physician relationship is just that...idealized.

 

[NontradCA]

Keyword here: idealize

Patients (and their families) esp. in teaching hospitals have been known to violently assault healthcare workers (doctors/nurses) after which nothing happens (no assault charges, lawsuit, nothing) due to a bad outcome. Your idealized view of the patient-physician relationship is just that...idealized.

Where did this attitude originate? I get people are emotionally distraught and grumpy when they're sick and want to place blame. But why the physician? It makes no sense.

 

[colbgw02]

Patients. You're spending so much time with them (cumulatively), so I'm wondering if you think your sense of duty will be something the not take for granted.

Well, I'm a radiologist, so being taken for granted is part of the job. We're like referees; we're doing our job correctly if no one notices us. It also substantially limits interactions with patients. Other physicians and mid-level providers are my principle customers, and as much as they like to bitch about my specialty, I take solace in the fact that healthcare delivery in this country would come to a screeching halt without us.

 

[DermViser]

Where did this attitude originate? I get people are emotionally distraught and grumpy when they're sick and want to place blame. But why the physician? It makes no sense.

Bc you're the closest one there. The insurance company denying your claim, the hospital executive with the charges aren't. Doctors used to be well-respected and revered, a generation ago. This is no longer the case where it's YOUR fault that you can't get them better or save their life.

 

[tco]

Bc you're the closest one there. The insurance company denying your claim, the hospital executive with the charges aren't. Doctors used to be well-respected and revered, a generation ago. This is no longer the case where it's YOUR fault that you can't get them better or save their life.

There was a poll a few years ago that stated that pharmacists were more trusted when it comes to delivering medical advice than physicians. For anyone that knows the study habits of the average pharmacy student, this should be highly upsetting.

 

[DermViser]

There was a poll a few years ago that stated that pharmacists were more trusted when it comes to delivering medical advice than physicians. For anyone that knows the study habits of the average pharmacy student, this should be highly upsetting.

I don't know much about pharmacy but I thought they have the same basic science curriculum? I could be totally wrong about that.

I do know that the pharm students and nursing students would always complain about their exams saying the questions were too hard and that they shouldn't be bc they're not studying to be doctors.

 

[Mad Jack]

People aren't perfect, but damn near every one of them has redeeming qualities. Whenever I started to get all jaded I'd just talk to my patients. I'd ask them about their family, what they like to do, their former career, whatever. And it'd remind me that they weren't just numbers on a list or medications to be administered, but people. Scared people, who have dreams and families and lives outside the hospital. And they needed our help to get them better.

Also helps when I think about what a miserable mess I've been during my hospital admissions- I'm a nightmare patient (postictal states are a ***** like that) so I try to give others the benefit of the doubt in regard to their behavior. They're generally alright people that are unhappy because of what they're going through, but that's sort of normal for being ill.

 

[PL198]

I don't know much about pharmacy but I thought they have the same basic science curriculum? I could be totally wrong about that.

I do know that the pharm students and nursing students would always complain about their exams saying the questions were too hard and that they shouldn't be bc they're not studying to be doctors.

Their passing standards are like 10 % lower than ours, and they don't even take the same tests as us. I feel like the whole not taking same tests thing is a joke. Do they really expect us to believe the pharmacy tests aren't way easier? I'd just prefer they don't BS me. I've seen their test and I've seen ours, and it's like those original NBME questions, except about the most basic concepts in the material, that are literally rote memorization of statements made in the notes, vs ours which are like the new style questions over an actual fair distribution of topics that require at least a little bit of understanding. I could understand the 10 % thing if they took the same tests as us, but they aren't even close. Don't even get me started on group projects...

 

[Awared]

I actually asked nearly this identical question to my PCP last month. He told me his philosophy of thinking of it in a way of the patients aren't "performing" for you, but rather you are providing a service to them. You shouldn't expect gratitude in exchange for your service and you should just learn to be content with a one way street.

 

[Shjanzey]

Shouldn't you expect a higher level abuse from patients? They aren't coming to you in a good mood in the first place. They feel miserable and they want to feel better. Maybe my cynicism is overflowing.

 

[PL198]

Shouldn't you expect a higher level abuse from patients? They aren't coming to you in a good mood in the first place. They feel miserable and they want to feel better. Maybe my cynicism is overflowing.

I mean are you pissed about going to the shoe store when you need new shoes? I don't see how there's this magical relationship where one example of a service provider( a doctor) gets treated differently than literally every other profession that provides a service. There's a difference between being upset at your situation vs taking it out on the person helping you rectify the situation.

 

[Shjanzey]

I mean are you pissed about going to the shoe store when you need new shoes? I don't see how there's this magical relationship where one example of a service provider( a doctor) gets treated differently than literally every other profession that provides a service. There's a difference between being upset at your situation vs taking it out on the person helping you rectify the situation.

I understand, but to play devil's advocate. The other day a drunk lady came into the ER with a broken ankle. She was swearing up a storm, but I knew her abuse wasn't really directed at me, but due to the level of pain she was in.

But I am definitely on your side when it comes to wanting people to recognize how to treat the person helping them.

 

[tco]

When truly sick patients get upset, you can't blame them. When IV drug abusers get mad because I won't give them IV Dilaudid and benadryl I literally laugh at them.

 

[circulus vitios]

Let them be an dingus. I'll be making more money in a week than they make in a month.

 

[PL198]

When truly sick patients get upset, you can't blame them. When IV drug abusers get mad because I won't give them IV Dilaudid and benadryl I literally laugh at them.

If they get upset at me, sure I can. I can relate and know it's a difficult situation and that they most likely still don't mean it towards me, but that doesn't make it acceptable. There's a difference between understanding and accepting. It's not ok for someone to punch a hole in the wall of a hospital after something bad happened to a loved one, that doesn't mean it's not understandable.

 

[tco]

If they get upset at me, sure I can. I can relate and know it's a difficult situation and that they most likely still don't mean it towards me, but that doesn't make it acceptable. There's a difference between understanding and accepting. It's not ok for someone to punch a hole in the wall of a hospital after something bad happened to a loved one, that doesn't mean it's not understandable.

Outbursts of violence from families and outbursts of tongue lashings from ill patients are not comparable.

I hope that, for your sake, you don't keep this attitude when dealing with sick patients. They will get mad at you for seemingly no reason, and if that happens, you have to shrug it off and realize that it's not you that they're mad it. If you take it personally, you're not going to provide proper care to them, or worse yet, you'll quip back at them. The latter is completely unacceptable. Actually, they're both completely unacceptable.

As Dermviser said earlier, now you know why rads and path are still finding residents.

 

[theseeker4]

Let them be an dingus. I'll be making more money in a week than they make in a month.

Until they sue you, and make more money in a day than you have in a year, ruining your career in the process.......

 

[RJGOP]

Be lucky you're getting real exposure to what medicine is like now. Too many people don't get that exposure (on purpose or not) and are shocked when they enter MS-3.

Those people are probably the ones expecting to become radiologists.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Those people are probably the ones expecting to become radiologists.

If I had a shot, after reading all these threads, I'd seriously consider radiology.

 

[RJGOP]

If I had a shot, after reading all these threads, I'd seriously consider radiology.

I'm sure you're not the only one. However, becoming a radiologist, typically, means becoming socially inept as well. Unless you decide to be rad onc or IR.

 

[Brain Bucket]

I'm sure you're not the only one. However, becoming a radiologist, typically, means becoming socially inept as well. Unless you decide to be rad onc or IR.

I know that's a common joke, but I know more than a few radiologists who are social beasts.

 

[RJGOP]

I know that's a common joke, but I know more than a few radiologists who are social beasts.

No, I do too. In fact, my cousin who is a full body imaging rad is very social and charismatic. I was just talking about the "typical" outcome.

 

[tco]

I'm sure you're not the only one. However, becoming a radiologist, typically, means becoming socially inept as well.

Some would see that as an advantage.

Unless you decide to be rad onc or IR.

Darn.

 

[BobbyB]

The fact that medicine is held to such a high standard and that most of the people you come in contact with daily are held to none. I find the standard similar to that of the military, and when it comes to customer service the patient always comes first no matter what. Well, have you ever tried to get customer service in any other industry? Basically you're told to **** off, and then those same people will demand premium healthcare from you.
I know I'm ranting but how can you all see how bad people are and then keep a straight face?

as a man, you've been training to handle this your whole life. you deal with it just like you deal with your girl's emotional tantrums: you take their worst abuse and keep smiling. once they realize they don't have the ability to hurt you, they have no choice but to respect you.

work on your mental strength and emotional control every day

 

[colbgw02]

I mean, this is anecdotal, but I know several hundred radiologists. There are a few who are pretty quirky, but I don't consider that to be the same thing. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of one I'd consider socially inept.

 

[circulus vitios]

If I had a shot, after reading all these threads, I'd seriously consider radiology.

Look up Charting the Outcomes. You stand a decent chance of matching radiology with like a 210 Step 1.

 

[RJGOP]

I mean, this is anecdotal, but I know several hundred radiologists. There are a few who are pretty quirky, but I don't consider that to be the same thing. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of one I'd consider socially inept.

My experience could be somewhat anecdotal as well. Perhaps I was just being too stereotypical.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm sure you're not the only one. However, becoming a radiologist, typically, means becoming socially inept as well. Unless you decide to be rad onc or IR.

Rad Onc hasn't been part of radiology in decades. (But they certainly have their share of quirky PhD types.)

FWiW, all of the most socially inept doctors I have ever met (and there have been many) were people whose specialties required them to interact directly with patients daily, not those in specialties with less patient contact (go figure). There's a reason the House TV show struck such a chord with the US viewers.

 

[EMDO2018]

.

 

[tco]

Look up Charting the Outcomes. You stand a decent chance of matching radiology with like a 210 Step 1.

Be careful with this. Most of the programs that take people with low step 1's are not academic programs. You're looking at having a chance of losing your job if the program were to be cut, or not get good training if you end up going through the program. Many of them don't even have a dedicated lecture series.

 

[Psai]

I don't know much about pharmacy but I thought they have the same basic science curriculum? I could be totally wrong about that.

I do know that the pharm students and nursing students would always complain about their exams saying the questions were too hard and that they shouldn't be bc they're not studying to be doctors.

Not even close. From what I've seen, our school has a much higher expectation of medical students than anyone else and rightly so. I was talking to a pharmacist friend the other day who said that he studied a ton in school and his gf was like dude you studied hard for two days once every two months. I've seen the accelerated nursing program too and although they have a packed schedule, that's due to the extra stuff that they have to learn that's not relevant to patient care

 

[BobbyB]

Be careful with this. Most of the programs that take people with low step 1's are not academic programs. You're looking at having a chance of losing your job if the program were to be cut, or not get good training if you end up going through the program. Many of them don't even have a dedicated lecture series.

w/e ... as long as the dream is alive! ... teleradiology while living in the Caribbean haha

 

[Brain Bucket]

Look up Charting the Outcomes. You stand a decent chance of matching radiology with like a 210 Step 1.

Not as an IMG. That stat sounds suspect for AMGs as well.

 

[colbgw02]

w/e ... as long as the dream is alive! ... teleradiology while living in the Caribbean haha

Won't happen unless there's a sea change in how CMS reimburses. Unless you live in Puerto Rico (or possibly the US Virgin Islands).

 

[PL198]

Outbursts of violence from families and outbursts of tongue lashings from ill patients are not comparable.

I hope that, for your sake, you don't keep this attitude when dealing with sick patients. They will get mad at you for seemingly no reason, and if that happens, you have to shrug it off and realize that it's not you that they're mad it. If you take it personally, you're not going to provide proper care to them, or worse yet, you'll quip back at them. The latter is completely unacceptable. Actually, they're both completely unacceptable.

As Dermviser said earlier, now you know why rads and path are still finding residents.

I don't take it personally at all. You don't have to take something personally to know the other person is being an idiot. What do you mean about rads and path? I'm 99.9 % sure I want to do rads.

 

[Awared]

When truly sick patients get upset, you can't blame them. When IV drug abusers get mad because I won't give them IV Dilaudid and benadryl I literally laugh at them.

"WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE ME MY MORPHINE AND BENADRYL??"

Anyway this thread has sort of morphed into "why are we expected to just take their abuse?"

The answer to that is that you aren't expected to take their abuse. If a patient is being truly nasty, you tell them "You cannot treat me like this. You are being rude and inappropriate" etc. Sometimes patients do not realize what they are doing, and drawing attention to it most of the time will leave them remorseful and apologetic. It is a felony for patients to physically attack any health service provider if mentally competent.

This is coming from a nursing perspective. Maybe some residents can chime in if it is also appropriate from a physician position.

 

[DermViser]

If I had a shot, after reading all these threads, I'd seriously consider radiology.

Even from Europe you have a shot at Rads in the states.

 

[DermViser]

I'm sure you're not the only one. However, becoming a radiologist, typically, means becoming socially inept as well. Unless you decide to be rad onc or IR.

Have you even met Radiology residents?

 

[DermViser]

Be careful with this. Most of the programs that take people with low step 1's are not academic programs. You're looking at having a chance of losing your job if the program were to be cut, or not get good training if you end up going through the program. Many of them don't even have a dedicated lecture series.

If the training program were to shut down, the resident take their funding with them.

 

[tco]

If the training program were to shut down, the resident take their funding with them.

O rly?

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