How doable is Re-mediating Anatomy?

[throwawaybcbummer]

So I'm likely failing anatomy after an NBME tomorrow.

A few questions:

1) What's the lowest pass rate anyone has ever heard of? I ask because supposedly 30% of my class is failing anatomy. They can't possibly fail all of us (~90) can they? Pretty sure I could clear a 63-65% Last year, they dropped the rate to 67%.

Please help. I'm bummed.

Plan currently is to just do "better" for the next set of courses and go from there. Build up confidence to take an ONE comprehensive exam (internally freaking out right now)

Any insight would be appreciated.

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[throwawaybcbummer]

@BioMajor2MD all great advice. heading to bed now...

quick note though, i heard 30% from directly after unit 3. of course, this could have changed since then if a lot of people killed unit 4.

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

Agreed. But Unit I is not that difficult so 40% better than either Unit 1 and 2 was not a fluke. I didn't do horrible on the unit 4 written but not sure my practical made up for unit 1 and 2. Either way, gearing up for a summer exam and would love to hear from others who've been there.

The 30% mark was surprising, but insinuated there's been curriculum tweaks rolled out ahead of the systems based for next year that haven't gone so well to get this number of people below the mark. But like I said, others may have done better today and gotten themselves out of the 30%-- however unlikely as that seems. By the way, for as easy as histo is, there were a number of people who didn't pass that either. Strange.

Thanks for your insight!

 

[68PGunner]

They will play with the curve to cut the remediation rate down to 3-8%

The Dean won't allow the Anatomy department to fail 30% of the class. That's an indication of the ineffectiveness of the faculty, rather than the students.

 

[Crayola227]

I recently posted on this topic, you can search my post history about anatomy remediation

I don't know about the Wayne State program, I know some years ago great things about the Georgetown program. If I had to do one, that would be the one.

 

[emergencycat]

Hope NBME goes well for you amiga/o! Don't worry too much, I'm an M2 here and Wayne is working on getting your class into (academic) shape. Our class had the same issue with anatomy, people (myself included) worked super hard in the latter units and between those and the NBME that brought everyone's grades up a lot. Anatomy is notoriously tough. The NBMEs help almost everyone out. Furthermore, as another poster said, they'll move the pass rate down. Even before that, most people will be ok, so by time they adjust the pass rate down a few percent the vast majority of the class is fine. So DO NOT worry about anything until after the adjust the pass rate (I know that's easier said than done). Take some time off after the tests and let yourself relax before you begin your next courses. It's vital to take time off in med school!

That being said, some people did fail last year and had to remediate over the summer. If this is the case for you, don't worry about anatomy until summer comes, and then do nothing else but study it. Dr. Jackson will explain the process to those that need it. In the meantime, seek out a tutor, get academic counseling, and seek help on your facebook group and from M2s. You can DM me for more info on the situation with those who remediated. It's not ideal, but Wayne does provide you multiple chances and will provide a variety of help when you're struggling. I would suggest seeking out a tutor asap, they are members of the M2 class that did very well. Lots of my friends opted to tutor this year and are great teachers. It's a completely free service, and at the very least will help you refine your study techniques and figure out what you're doing inefficiently.

 

[Goro]

They will play with the curve to cut the remediation rate down to 3-8%

The Dean won't allow the Anatomy department to fail 30% of the class. That's an indication of the ineffectiveness of the faculty, rather than the students.

1000% truth in this. Having so many students fail isn't merely ineffectiveness, but incompetence. The sound you hear off in the distance is Goro grinding his teeth at the news of this. OP, you have my sympathies.

 

[Treebeard]

My school is very fairly secretive about how our test scores work...they say they do not to curve them, but ALOT of people get exactly 70.xx% on each test (not the same people every time, but it seems to be the mode). I suspect they heavily edit which questions they keep after we've all submitted.

 

[IlDestriero]

I’m pretty sure that if you failed anatomy at my school you couldn’t remediate over the summer like the other courses and had to repeat the year. If 30% of the class was failing they’d fire the professors teaching it. There was a major incident when the average biochem score went from 85ish to 70ish. Major incident. Ironically I think that was my best biochem exam for some reason.
The lead professor blasted the class directly and blamed us for dropping the ball, wasting at least 30 minutes of our time in a lecture. For real. It was painful. However our lazy asses somehow still were scoring the same in all the other classes exams. As a result he got both barrels right back in the chest, and one more in the head for being a whiny biatch and wasting our time for 1/2 a class.
Don’t frack with a room full of overachievers unless you’re Zeus sitting on the throne on Olympus.


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Il Destriero

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement guys.

It's a really confusing time to be the 33% of us who haven't done well. The course director and the curriculum head have both confirmed this number to both me and others in this position.

After hearing a lot of you voice the same concerns, I can't help but wonder why this happened?

On top of it, it seems students in my position aren't really being given a straight answer. People who know they're mathematically out and under the 67%assumed pass rate (@Like 60 etc) are being told to be "patient" etc. It seems like a lot of us will be passed anyway but that's an assumption based on what we're being told.

I love my school but this seems very poorly done in many ways

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

.

 

[sammiesings]

How does 30% of a class fail anatomy though? That has to be on the course directors. Serious question.

My guess is they won't fail anyone outside of those who were mathematically out from test 1 or 2. But they won't tell you why you passed in order to save face.

 

[Azete]

How does 30% of a class fail anatomy though? That has to be on the course directors. Serious question.

My guess is they won't fail anyone outside of those who were mathematically out from test 1 or 2. But they won't tell you why you passed in order to save face.

I used to say the same thing but it's actually surprisingly easy for a huge % of the class to fail anatomy. All it really takes is the faculty not cleaning out structures properly for the practical and even if you know the material you're still ****ed.

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

How does 30% of a class fail anatomy though? That has to be on the course directors. Serious question.

My guess is they won't fail anyone outside of those who were mathematically out from test 1 or 2. But they won't tell you why you passed in order to save face.

I want to believe this but I can't believe this kind of thing happens in medical school!!

 

[libertyyne]

Op I dont have any advice other than, have you met our lord and savior ANKI with Image occlusion? It works wonders for anatomy.

 

[sammiesings]

I want to believe this but I can't believe this kind of thing happens in medical school!!

OP, did you have your health issue documented/discussed with admin/Dean/course directors?

If it's true 30% failed, I bet they will take indivual situations like yours into account when making the p/f decisions.

@Goro et al probably have more insight into how these things work but I think they have more leniency in deciding p/f when they have a third of the class to worry about. I doubt they're willing to lose that many spots for next year's class

 

[Goro]

OP, did you have your health issue documented/discussed with admin/Dean/course directors?

If it's true 30% failed, I bet they will take indivual situations like yours into account when making the p/f decisions.

@Goro et al probably have more insight into how these things work but I think they have more leniency in deciding p/f when they have a third of the class to worry about. I doubt they're willing to lose that many spots for next year's class

I'd like to know what happens in another week or so, when (hopefully) the course director will start "massaging" the poorest performing test questions, to produce more reasonable results. Again, this isn't merely about having a nice bell-shaped grade curve, but because the problem was with the questions, not the students.

 

[IslandStyle808]

At newer schools this is a common occurrence. They will pass at the very least 90% of the class. There is a chance you will be saved.

 

[Nucleophile1]

How does 30% of a class fail anatomy though? That has to be on the course directors. Serious question.

My guess is they won't fail anyone outside of those who were mathematically out from test 1 or 2. But they won't tell you why you passed in order to save face.

Yeah this doesn't sound right. We have had anatomy exams at my school where no one failed.

 

[Techguru2323]

I also go to Wayne and although I performed very well, those exams were a...
I don’t think it’s necessarily the professors ineptitude but the style of questions present on exams. Wayne test ALOT of minutia and if you don’t know the structures inside and out, it’s very hard to succeed. We also had a ton of unproductive dissection hours.
I hope everything works out for you and everyone else involved


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[throwawaybcbummer]

Op I dont have any advice other than, have you met our lord and savior ANKI with Image occlusion? It works wonders for anatomy.

YES! did this for my last two exams. made a huge difference. for those reading in the future bc of difficulty in anatomy, please try it bc it really helped my scores

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

I'd like to know what happens in another week or so, when (hopefully) the course director will start "massaging" the poorest performing test questions, to produce more reasonable results. Again, this isn't merely about having a nice bell-shaped grade curve, but because the problem was with the questions, not the students.

Thanks for everyone's sympathies and advice. I'm still very mind blown at this whole situation.

So it turns out i got my final score back and it wasn't too adjusted- i think i got 2 or 3 questions back. It looks like unless they drop the pass rate, I will be failing. Goro, does this sound reasonable?

I will do my best for the retake/remediation exam if need be. Still very confused bc it doesn't seem logical to fail so many of us. If i wasn't able to make it out of the hole, statistically speaking, it would seem there were many others in the 33% in the same boat as me.

I had a friend do a quick stats analysis using the mean, sd and n of all our anatomy exams and he believes (couldn't be sure without more info) even with my poor scores (~62% average) I'm in the middle of the pack when you look at the whole classes performance.

 

[IlDestriero]

Thanks for everyone's sympathies and advice. I'm still very mind blown at this whole situation.

So it turns out i got my final score back and it wasn't too adjusted- i think i got 2 or 3 questions back. It looks like unless they drop the pass rate, I will be failing. Goro, does this sound reasonable?

It is unfortunate bc if you look at my two scores from post-illness, i am passing.

I will do my best for the retake/remediation exam if need be. Still very confused bc it doesn't seem logical to fail so many of us. If i wasn't able to make it out of the hole, statistically speaking, it would seem there were many others in the 33% in the same boat as me.

I had a friend do a quick stats analysis using the mean, sd and n of all our anatomy exams and he believes (couldn't be sure without more info) even with my poor scores (~62% average) I'm in the middle of the pack when you look at the whole classes performance.

You should out your school so others can benefit from knowing, they’re probably better off elsewhere.


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Il Destriero

 

[Goro]

Did events like these happen with the previous year's class?

Thanks for everyone's sympathies and advice. I'm still very mind blown at this whole situation.

So it turns out i got my final score back and it wasn't too adjusted- i think i got 2 or 3 questions back. It looks like unless they drop the pass rate, I will be failing. Goro, does this sound reasonable?

It is unfortunate bc if you look at my two scores from post-illness, i am passing.

I will do my best for the retake/remediation exam if need be. Still very confused bc it doesn't seem logical to fail so many of us. If i wasn't able to make it out of the hole, statistically speaking, it would seem there were many others in the 33% in the same boat as me.

I had a friend do a quick stats analysis using the mean, sd and n of all our anatomy exams and he believes (couldn't be sure without more info) even with my poor scores (~62% average) I'm in the middle of the pack when you look at the whole classes performance.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I second using Anki with images for lecture exams (BRS for shelf). For the lab practical, Rohen's flashcard seems to be working for me.

If you're not already, get help from upper-term students who have done well in these exams, attend small group tutoring, and try to get ahead. Good luck!

 

[IlDestriero]

Yes. A-Ok.
The teaching and testing must be just fine when exam scores are in the 60s... and that’s still passing. Nothing to see here...
Sure.
Good luck on the USMLE as one of 2 things is happening.
1. Poor teaching.
2. Testing inappropriate material.
Probably both.


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Il Destriero

 

[sammiesings]

Deleted for anonymity. All I'll say is as a fellow xx M1, it was an open secret that 1/3 of the class was failing going into the fourth exam. I don't think OP is trying to complain or **** on the school in his posts and I don't think students should have to be secretive about the shortcomings of their school.

OP, you may have failed anatomy and you may have to take the summer exam but there are tons of exams between now and summer. Go kill 'em. Also, for what it's worth, when my labmate wasn't doing well, the rest of our group rallied around him. If at all possible, reach out to your peers--you might be surprised how understanding and helpful they can be!

I am not a spokesperson for but you guys can think that I’m a sellout or admin in disguise posting or whatever but one of my responsibilities is to interact with students about the curriculum at and make efforts if students are struggling. I have made direct contact with administration and the individuals OP has spoken with and his information is incorrect. 30-33% of the students are not failing and it’s not even a third of that amount. Admittedly, the fail rate is 2-3% higher than where it has been in the past. The pass rate after the first two exams moreso reflects the situation OP describes. Also, as many issues as I have with the curriculum (many) it still works and don’t feel any unfair criticism needs to be directed at. I think this was poor form on OP’s part, but you guys are free to think whatever.

 

[wayneBMSpremed]

"I am not a spokesperson for Wayne but you guys can think that I’m a sellout or admin in disguise posting or whatever but one of my responsibilities is to interact with students about the curriculum at WSUSOM and make efforts if students are struggling. I have made direct contact with administration and the individuals OP has spoken with and his information is incorrect. 30-33% of the students are not failing and it’s not even a third of that amount. Admittedly, the fail rate is 2-3% higher than where it has been in the past. The pass rate after the first two exams moreso reflects the situation OP describes. Also, as many issues as I have with the curriculum (many) it still works and don’t feel any unfair criticism needs to be directed at WSUSOM. I think this was poor form on OP’s part, but you guys are free to think whatever."

I can 2nd the validity behind this statement. The OPs statement that 1/3 of the class is failing and the poster above me that said its an open secrete that 1/3rd were failing going into the fourth exam is flat our false. Just a rumor being spread. 1/3 of the class was failing after the 2nd exam (head and neck unit, by far the toughest one. I did not do well on it). But most of the class made up for it on units 3 and 4. Currently less than 10% are in the failing range.

 

[sammiesings]

I have no horses in this race. I didn't fail any portion of anatomy. My sources for this info are not people who would have any reason to lie or spread rumors.

Larger question: maybe I missed it, but how exactly do we know OP's school is even xxx? Doesn't seem like the place to be speculating or trying to piece together what school this is as OP hasn't seemed to out his school.

Eta: and for that reason, I'm editing out any references I made to the school because this is speculative and I bought into the dramzzz. My bad

 

[throwawaybcbummer]

I passed. I must have "done the math wrong".

I'm only being slightly cheeky. I also did better on the last practical and the NBME (a B when curved to the class's performance).

I just have to say, in no way was I trying to crap on my school. I was only trying to get advice. My concerns were valid though and I do believe the school should and will examine the course director's progress. They will come up with a conclusion that is fair to him as well as us, I am confident.