How does it look to have...

[agranulocytosis]

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many different types of electives when it comes to matching ortho?

Let's say I really like Ortho early on and enjoy Rads as well, so how would it look to an Ortho program that I also have an interest in Rads as well by taking more than one Rads elective?

I understand that Ortho is a pretty rough match to begin with, but looking at the Charting Outcomes document I find the vast majority who match rank only one specialty. Does this mean programs like applicants who are completely dedicated to their field of interest and by extension, only apply for electives within Ortho/Surg?

 

[Tired]

many different types of electives when it comes to matching ortho?

It makes you look uncommited to the field.

I understand that Ortho is a pretty rough match to begin with, but looking at the Charting Outcomes document I find the vast majority who match rank only one specialty. Does this mean programs like applicants who are completely dedicated to their field of interest and by extension, only apply for electives within Ortho/Surg?

For my own program, my PD told me that people who apply to multiple specialties are not applicants she is interested in. When they apply to a single other specialty as a backup, that's okay (unless it's a Medicine specialty, in which case she isn't interested in taking them).

Be prepared to answer them if Ortho is your first choice. Assuming it is, make it a point to tell them (either in your PS or interview) that Rads is your backup. If it's not your first choice, or if you're "unsure", be prepared to have a lot of programs turned off by that answer.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Be prepared to answer them if Ortho is your first choice. Assuming it is, make it a point to tell them (either in your PS or interview) that Rads is your backup. If it's not your first choice, or if you're "unsure", be prepared to have a lot of programs turned off by that answer.

Wouldn't it be kind of tough telling someone Rads is your backup when the average Step 1 score for Rads is HIGHER than Ortho?

Assuming your Step 1 score is competitive, it's going to be kind of tough selling that whole "my board score isn't that strong so I need a back-up" story.

 

[Tired]

Wouldn't it be kind of tough telling someone Rads is your backup when the average Step 1 score for Rads is HIGHER than Ortho?

Assuming your Step 1 score is competitive, it's going to be kind of tough selling that whole "my board score isn't that strong so I need a back-up" story.

First of all, if you're applying to Ortho, you don't really need to explain why you have a backup. It's difficult enough to get in, that you don't need to bring up reasons why you're not a strong applicant.

Second, I don't think anyone in Ortho considers Rads to be a more difficult match, regardless of the couple point difference in Charting Outcomes.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

First of all, if you're applying to Ortho, you don't really need to explain why you have a backup. It's difficult enough to get in, that you don't need to bring up reasons why you're not a strong applicant.

Second, I don't think anyone in Ortho considers Rads to be a more difficult match, regardless of the couple point difference in Charting Outcomes.

Come on man, ortho ain't THAT competitive.

If we were talking about Derm, ENT, Plastics then fine, having a back-up is almost expected (esp Derm and Plastics) no matter how high your Step 1.

But Ortho, Rads, Ophtho are all in the same boat. Applying for a back-up when your board score is competitive begins to look like your not really passionate about the field. Know what I mean boss?

 

[Tired]

Come on man, ortho ain't THAT competitive.

If we were talking about Derm, ENT, Plastics then fine, having a back-up is almost expected (esp Derm and Plastics) no matter how high your Step 1.

But Ortho, Rads, Ophtho are all in the same boat. Applying for a back-up when your board score is competitive begins to look like your not really passionate about the field. Know what I mean boss?

I'm not dumb, I can read the charts same as you.

The OPs question is "how would it look to apply to second specialty?" And I agree with you, it doesn't look good.

But if he's set on it, the question is how to frame it in your interviews/PS to minimize the damage. And I think that portraying it as a backup is reasonable.

The issue is not the reality of how competitive Rads is, the issue is perception.

It's like this: If you talk to a Marine, they will tell you that the Marine Corps is the most elite fighting force ever to march the face of the earth (I know, because I was told that this morning by a Marine Colonel). Are they? I dunno, they're pretty badass, have a long history of impressive victories against overwhelming odds.

But the best ever? Objectively . . . probably not, though they are very good. You wouldn't want to tell them that though, would you? No, you'd want to play to their ego. And if you were a hot-**** 19yo kid looking at both the Army and Marine Corps, if you said you were looking at the Marine Corps, but considering the Army as a backup, of course that would make sense to them.


Ditto on Ortho. For us, Ortho is the pinnacle, there is nothing more competitive. And I could make a reasonable argument that despite the numbers, we're more competitive than the specialties you cite. But whatever.

I'm just suggesting a strategy. Not saying it's foolproof, just saying that this is how I'd cast it in similar circumstances.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I agree, ideally, the OP should only apply Ortho.

But if having Rads as a back up is a must (for whatever reason), then it's important to sell your story well.

Ortho is the pinnacle of medicine? haha. As long as you keep referring your patients to me for their eye surgeries I have no problem stroking your ego!

 

[agranulocytosis]

Hey guys thanks for your perspectives.

Tired: actually, my question was actually geared more towards Elective rotations, i.e. if I should be committed to the field by now by just taking surg/ortho type electives. But I guess it doesn't really matter as long as I stick to what you guys said.

Actually, both your guy's posts bring to mind another question. How do programs know whether or not you're applying to a 2nd speciality? I thought ROL's are kept confidential.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Hey guys thanks for your perspectives.

Tired: actually, my question was actually geared more towards Elective rotations, i.e. if I should be committed to the field by now by just taking surg/ortho type electives. But I guess it doesn't really matter as long as I stick to what you guys said.

Actually, both your guy's posts bring to mind another question. How do programs know whether or not you're applying to a 2nd speciality? I thought ROL's are kept confidential.

They are. The only way they may find out is if:

1) You apply for 2 different specialties in the same hospital and the PD's "talk.'

2) One of your classmates rats you out b/c they want the spot at your home program (happened to a few people at my med school. IMO, something only a true wimp would do).

Other than that, you're in the clear.

 

[agranulocytosis]

They are. The only way they may find out is if:

1) You apply for 2 different specialties in the same hospital and the PD's "talk.'

2) One of your classmates rats you out b/c they want the spot at your home program (happened to a few people at my med school. IMO, something only a true wimp would do).

Other than that, you're in the clear.

OK, now I gotcha. It's basically alright to apply for more than one specialty, provided you DON'T apply to different specialties in the same hospital or let anyone else know what you're up to.

 

[Tired]

Tired: actually, my question was actually geared more towards Elective rotations, i.e. if I should be committed to the field by now by just taking surg/ortho type electives. But I guess it doesn't really matter as long as I stick to what you guys said.

Actually, both your guy's posts bring to mind another question. How do programs know whether or not you're applying to a 2nd speciality? I thought ROL's are kept confidential.

That's the other thing to remember: nobody knows where else you're applying unless you tell them, or you interview with two different programs at the same hospital, or something else informal like that. They don't have access to your rank list.

Granted, more electives in a specialty increases your chances of matching in it (through LORs, getting to know them, etc).

If you want to hide the fact you're applying to two different specialties, make sure your LORs don't mention it either.

 

[Tired]

Ortho is the pinnacle of medicine? haha. As long as you keep referring your patients to me for their eye surgeries I have no problem stroking your ego!

You're from Ophtho?!

Hell, and here I was taking you seriously as a sugeon . . .

😉

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

You're from Ophtho?!

Hell, and here I was taking you seriously as a sugeon . . .

😉

Haha. Good one! My cousin (a GS resident) says the same thing.

Interestingly, I'll get the last laugh when I get to go home at 5pm in my black 4-door Maserati while you're still operating at 11pm on the 90-yr gomer s/p hip fx secondary to fall...

Have fun man!

 

[Tired]

Haha. Good one! My cousin (a GS resident) says the same thing.

Interestingly, I'll get the last laugh when I get to go home at 5pm in my black 4-door Maserati while you're still operating at 11pm on the 90-yr gomer s/p hip fx secondary to fall...

Have fun man!

You're not talking to some GS weanie. We roll in cash, especially if we're smart on our fellowship choices.

I'll see your retinal reattachment and Maserati and raise you a lumbar laminectomy and private plane . . .

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

You're not talking to some GS weanie. We roll in cash, especially if we're smart on our fellowship choices.

I'll see your retinal reattachment and Maserati and raise you a lumbar laminectomy and private plane . . .

By the time you're done with your laminectomy I'll have phaco'd 4 cataracts in the OR, PRP'd another 8 pts in the afternoon and cashed in from my Botox clinic in my MedSpa...in Dubai.

Average salaries are just that, average. And I ain't average boss..😉

 

[ddmo]

Interestingly, I'll get the last laugh when I get to go home at 5pm in my black 4-door Maserati while you're still operating at 11pm on the 90-yr gomer s/p hip fx secondary to fall...

Have fun man!

I'll take the $1,800 to spend 45 min dropping a nail down that femur any day. Besides, it's medicine's problem that they are 90, not mine.

 

[sestamibi]

By the time you're done with your laminectomy I'll have phaco'd 4 cataracts in the OR, PRP'd another 8 pts in the afternoon and cashed in from my Botox clinic in my MedSpa...in Dubai.

Average salaries are just that, average. And I ain't average boss..😉

You could have skipped the medical degree and just started the MedSpa in Dubai.

Might have saved some tuition in the process.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

You could have skipped the medical degree and just started the MedSpa in Dubai.

Might have saved some tuition in the process.

Medspa is the mistress my friend.

Ophtho is the wife.

 

[xoomn]

I like this conversation. 😉