How Does MCAT Physics Help in Medical School/Career?

[Hexon]

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hi all,

just wondering how the things we're required to know in mcat physics would be applicable in real life medical scenarios/knowledge.

i'm sure it's good to know and a good gauge of logical thinking but i'm having a hard time visualising how useful the things we're required to know in physics are really going to be.

general chem and organic chem and bio i can see how useful they would be but why on earth would we need to know about translational motion, newtons laws and forces etc etc?

thanks guys

 

[kehlsh]

It's there to inflate your mcat score

Physics is the easiest section in the mcat, amirite

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

hi all,

just wondering how the things we're required to know in mcat physics would be applicable in real life medical scenarios/knowledge.

i'm sure it's good to know and a good gauge of logical thinking but i'm having a hard time visualising how useful the things we're required to know in physics are really going to be.

general chem and organic chem and bio i can see how useful they would be but why on earth would we need to know about translational motion, newtons laws and forces etc etc?

thanks guys

You might get a patient struck by an object dropped by some physicist off a cliff. Maybe a burn victim who mistook the virtual image for the object when looking at a candle in a mirror.

Seriously though, cardioresp seems pretty clearly fluids in its most fundamental sense. Fractures and strains can be analyzed by knowing solids. Nerves parallel circuits. The muscle-skeletal system seems like levers and tension. I'd say physics is more applicable than general chemistry or organic chemistry. They all matter.

 

[Hexon]

You might get a patient struck by an object dropped by some physicist off a cliff. Maybe a burn victim who mistook the virtual image for the object when looking at a candle in a mirror.

Seriously though, cardioresp seems pretty clearly fluids in its most fundamental sense. Fractures and strains can be analyzed by knowing solids. Nerves parallel circuits. The muscle-skeletal system seems like levers and tension. I'd say physics is more applicable than general chemistry or organic chemistry. They all matter.

thanks for your reply;

well those definitely sound like applicable instances of mcat physics;

can you expand a bit more on how knowing about solids helps with analysing fractures and strains?

some ppl tell me knowing physics is useful for insurance reports or something to that effect

 

[GeronimoMD]

thanks for your reply;

well those definitely sound like applicable instances of mcat physics;

can you expand a bit more on how knowing about solids helps with analysing fractures and strains?

some ppl tell me knowing physics is useful for insurance reports or something to that effect

Do you suck at physics???

 

[apumic]

It's there to inflate your mcat score

Physics is the easiest section in the mcat, amirite

This.



Also, Physio is TOTALLY Physics and your knowledge of Chemistry and Bio will be greatly enhanced by a solid Physics background.

It's also noteworthy that much of what you learn for the BS section will be largely irrelevant to medicine as well. (And that includes the seemingly valuable things, such as transcription and translation that, frankly, no doc actually uses in clinical practice... at least none of the ones I've talked to. Most barely even remember what is in a cell, much less the details of cell signaling or transcription and translation.)

 

[Hexon]

thanks for your replies, fellas

well you've certainly given me some new perspective when i look at the mcat physics sections now🙂

now a question about the organic chemistry part; why do you suppose we need to know the intricate details of optical configurations in isomers?

 

[apumic]

thanks for your replies, fellas

well you've certainly given me some new perspective when i look at the mcat physics sections now🙂

now a question about the organic chemistry part; why do you suppose we need to know the intricate details of optical configurations in isomers?

For the MCAT, mostly.

 

[GeronimoMD]

why do you suppose we need to know the intricate details of optical configurations in isomers?

It is important as a physician to understand how the configuration of an active ingredient for instance, influences its physical and chemical properties. For instance, isomers of 3-methylfentanyl have differing analgesic potencies depending on which enantiomer is used. Introduction of a methyl group into the 3 position of piperidine ring, increases analgesic potency. The trans isomer is more active than fentanyl but its corresponding cis form is 8 times more active.

In addition, organic chemistry in general will help one understand the reaction mechanisms involved in processes such as glycolysis, TCA cycle and other biochemical processes.

Hope this helps.

 

[typhoonegator]

It is important as a physician to understand how the configuration of an active ingredient for instance, influences its physical and chemical properties. For instance, isomers of 3-methylfentanyl have differing analgesic potencies depending on which enantiomer is used. Introduction of a methyl group into the 3 position of piperidine ring, increases analgesic potency. The trans isomer is more active than fentanyl but its corresponding cis form is 8 times more active.

Is it?

I am an ICU fellow taking care of 18 patients tonight, and not once have I considered the isomeric structure of the literally hundreds of medications currently prescribed on my unit. Why? Because the biochemists figured that stuff out when they designed the drug, freeing my mind up to actually take care of patients. I suppose some vague concept of isomers and whatnot is important to have in the back of my mind in terms of basic pharmacology, but the example you've provided just isn't practically applicable.

I don't know what a molecule of cisatracurium looks like, or if it is racemic or not when I receive it from pharmacy. But you can bet your buns I know where and how it is metabolized, how fast, and what the dose per kg is, because that is what ends up mattering in patient care.

So, I think you guys have it right for the most part. We learn a lot of physics and chemistry to gain an appreciation for the complexity of it, to weed out the unmotivated/unintelligent, and because 100 years ago physicians spent more time thinking about basic chemistry than they do now. Plus, if you end up as academicians in your future lives, you might end up circling back to some of these things.

 

[music2doc]

Is it?

I am an ICU fellow taking care of 18 patients tonight, and not once have I considered the isomeric structure of the literally hundreds of medications currently prescribed on my unit. Why? Because the biochemists figured that stuff out when they designed the drug, freeing my mind up to actually take care of patients. I suppose some vague concept of isomers and whatnot is important to have in the back of my mind in terms of basic pharmacology, but the example you've provided just isn't practically applicable.

I don't know what a molecule of cisatracurium looks like, or if it is racemic or not when I receive it from pharmacy. But you can bet your buns I know where and how it is metabolized, how fast, and what the dose per kg is, because that is what ends up mattering in patient care.

So, I think you guys have it right for the most part. We learn a lot of physics and chemistry to gain an appreciation for the complexity of it, to weed out the unmotivated/unintelligent, and because 100 years ago physicians spent more time thinking about basic chemistry than they do now. Plus, if you end up as academicians in your future lives, you might end up circling back to some of these things.

My dad's in pulmonology/critical care and he'd say the same thing. Working as a physician in a large community ICU (at a university-affiliated community hospital), he always has a PharmD rounding with him. She takes care of knowing the chemistry behind the drugs and the complex aspects of their interactions. That's not his job. When he has pts w/ mysterious sx and ridiculously long med lists (upwards of, say, 30 different Rxs), he hands the list to the pharmacist to do the sleuthing. She typically picks up on possible interaction effects and such much more quickly than any physician could and he's going to be a lot more comfortable canceling or altering another doc's Rx (when necessary) with her consultation than he would be alone or in consultation with only that other doc.

 

[GeronimoMD]

Is it?

I am an ICU fellow taking care of 18 patients tonight, and not once have I considered the isomeric structure of the literally hundreds of medications currently prescribed on my unit.

I wasn't implying that a physician utilizes this knowledge per se while on the floor treating patients every day but it is background knowledge that is essential for understanding pharmacology and medicinal chemistry. 🙂

 

[Hexon]

thanks once again for your inspiring input, fellas

now it just occurred to me; why do i need to know newtonian physics?
it is to, once again 'weed out those who're unmotivated'?

 

[MalibuPreMD]

thanks once again for your inspiring input, fellas

now it just occurred to me; why do i need to know newtonian physics?
it is to, once again 'weed out those who're unmotivated'?

How many subject topics are you going to ask about?

 

[typhoonegator]

I actually do use newtonian physics every day. Concepts of force, resistance, compliance, pressure differentials, and work are all central to basic cardiovascular physiology. You can't understand the Fick equation without knowing at least something about physics.

 

[GeronimoMD]

How many subject topics are you going to ask about?

LOL All he has to do is use Google. What a lazy *****!!!

OP,

Is this HS homework??? 🙂

 

[Hexon]

LOL All he has to do is use Google. What a lazy *****!!!

OP,

Is this HS homework??? 🙂

everything is homework😉

reason why i ask is that i when things get pretty dire, i have to motivate myself and wonder how and when i'll be using and seeing this material🙂

 

[Donald Juan]

Sorry, I'm not trying to steal the thread from the OP, I just didn't want to make a whole new one that was so similar.

My question is (also, I'd really like the input from people who aren't just premeds) why do I need to know biology? I mean, if I'm a doctor shouldn't I be focused on patients and not on that thingamajig that pumps the red stuff or the those whatchamacallits that bring in the air.

Also, arithmetic seems highly unnecessary. I'm just trying to stay motivated guys. I'm in my pre-algebra class and this seems to have no real world applications for a physician.

 

[typhoonegator]

Bravo.

 

[GeronimoMD]

Sorry, I'm not trying to steal the thread from the OP, I just didn't want to make a whole new one that was so similar.

My question is (also, I'd really like the input from people who aren't just premeds) why do I need to know biology? I mean, if I'm a doctor shouldn't I be focused on patients and not on that thingamajig that pumps the red stuff or the those whatchamacallits that bring in the air.

Also, arithmetic seems highly unnecessary. I'm just trying to stay motivated guys. I'm in my pre-algebra class and this seems to have no real world applications for a physician.

Love it!!!

 

[coyotelime]

Sorry, I'm not trying to steal the thread from the OP, I just didn't want to make a whole new one that was so similar.

My question is (also, I'd really like the input from people who aren't just premeds) why do I need to know biology? I mean, if I'm a doctor shouldn't I be focused on patients and not on that thingamajig that pumps the red stuff or the those whatchamacallits that bring in the air.

Also, arithmetic seems highly unnecessary. I'm just trying to stay motivated guys. I'm in my pre-algebra class and this seems to have no real world applications for a physician.

Pre-algebra sets up algebra which is a prereq for algebra 2 which is a prereq for pre-calc/trig which is a prereq for calculus which you have to take to be a doctor.

Calculus encourages a logical and rather abstract method of thinking, and multivariable calculus especially helps you visualize things in 3D, as does physics, which requires calculus too.

Pre-algebra will help you with algebra/algebra 2/pre-calc/calc which are on the ACT/SAT/SAT IIs/APs, which you will have to do okay on to get into college, and an undergraduate degree is important for med school (required I think).

 

[PfNO22]

Pre-algebra sets up algebra which is a prereq for algebra 2 which is a prereq for pre-calc/trig which is a prereq for calculus which you have to take to be a doctor.

Calculus encourages a logical and rather abstract method of thinking, and multivariable calculus especially helps you visualize things in 3D, as does physics, which requires calculus too.

Pre-algebra will help you with algebra/algebra 2/pre-calc/calc which are on the ACT/SAT/SAT IIs/APs, which you will have to do okay on to get into college, and an undergraduate degree is important for med school (required I think).

Coyotelime to the rescue!

 

[ridethecliche]

Pre-algebra sets up algebra which is a prereq for algebra 2 which is a prereq for pre-calc/trig which is a prereq for calculus which you have to take to be a doctor.

Calculus encourages a logical and rather abstract method of thinking, and multivariable calculus especially helps you visualize things in 3D, as does physics, which requires calculus too.

Pre-algebra will help you with algebra/algebra 2/pre-calc/calc which are on the ACT/SAT/SAT IIs/APs, which you will have to do okay on to get into college, and an undergraduate degree is important for med school (required I think).

/facepalm

 

[Hexon]

i dunno about you guys but i seem to find quantum mechanics unnecessary for a medical career; don't get me wrong, i love quantum physics as much as anyone else but i don't understand how i'm going to use or need to know hund's rule or the whole sp1,sp2 shebang let alone electron configurations.


@donaldjuan
it's ok🙂 we can use this thread to discuss things we may or may not need to know for a medical career

 

[DISCOSTEW]

Xopanex an isomer of albuterol

 

[Hexon]

so where do you use quantum mechanics like the whole sp1, sp2, electron config in pharmacology? or diagnosis?

 

[ridethecliche]

This entire thread is a gigantic facepalm.

 

[MDminded]

Hexon, I understand your perspective. You need a reason to keep going, a reason to study the things you dread/hate/have night terrors about.

In general, here's how I look at it:
- Physics: Needed for when I need to analyze any of the 11 systems of the body. I pretend that I'm going to become an ER doctor (and reflect on all the different cases I've seen on House or Grey's Anatomy) - Force/impact: Bones and people who like to jump off buildings/cliffs. Gases and pressure: Divers or people who may have been left in a gas tank or someone who failed at attempting suicide via carbon monoxide poisoning.
- General Chemistry: BLOOD and plasma. From pH levels to buffer systems to equilibrium.
- Organic Chemistry: 100% pharmacology. (Maybe a biochem class would increase your application)
- Biology: Duh.

 

[Hexon]

Hexon, I understand your perspective. You need a reason to keep going, a reason to study the things you dread/hate/have night terrors about.

In general, here's how I look at it:
- Physics: Needed for when I need to analyze any of the 11 systems of the body. I pretend that I'm going to become an ER doctor (and reflect on all the different cases I've seen on House or Grey's Anatomy) - Force/impact: Bones and people who like to jump off buildings/cliffs. Gases and pressure: Divers or people who may have been left in a gas tank or someone who failed at attempting suicide via carbon monoxide poisoning.
- General Chemistry: BLOOD and plasma. From pH levels to buffer systems to equilibrium.
- Organic Chemistry: 100% pharmacology. (Maybe a biochem class would increase your application)
- Biology: Duh.

i want to thank you, MDminded and the rest of those who were kind enough to give me reasonable responses.
perhaps it may be intuitive for a some of you, but for others like me, the sciences are less than intuitive, especially when things can get pretty imposing.
so a big thank you to those who took the time to give reasonable and polite replies.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

Doctors use stethoscopes still, right?

So you have tubular breath sounds (like in a tube aka your trachea in the neck) and vesicular breath sounds (heard over your lungs). Tubular breath sounds are high pitched, they are loud and the inspiration phase is just as long as the expiration phase. A vesicular breath sound heard over your lungs is different. It is low-pitched, shorter, more quiet and the expiration phase is about 2/3s as long as the inspiration phase. Why? Because the last 1/3 of the noises are high-pitched frequency sounds and since sounds move better in denser mediums, the air-to-vesicle interface eliminates some of the sounds. Now. If you ever hear a tubular breath sound over the lungs, then something is WRONG. Something has replaced that vesicular fluid. It could be vesicular collapse. It could be blood like in a hemothorax. It could be serum like in a pneumonia (which features high-pitched sporadic crackles and rales) or it could be pulmonary edema of some other kind.

 

[ridethecliche]

I think my favorite application is methanol poisoning.

Because the ivy drip has ethanol in it.

nom.

 

[Whatyousay]

Hexon, I understand your perspective. You need a reason to keep going, a reason to study the things you dread/hate/have night terrors about.

In general, here's how I look at it:
- Physics: Needed for when I need to analyze any of the 11 systems of the body. I pretend that I'm going to become an ER doctor (and reflect on all the different cases I've seen on House or Grey's Anatomy) - Force/impact: Bones and people who like to jump off buildings/cliffs. Gases and pressure: Divers or people who may have been left in a gas tank or someone who failed at attempting suicide via carbon monoxide poisoning.
- General Chemistry: BLOOD and plasma. From pH levels to buffer systems to equilibrium.
- Organic Chemistry: 100% pharmacology. (Maybe a biochem class would increase your application)
- Biology: Duh.

You forgot about writing. It's so important that it's not even graded on a numeric scale.

 

[MDminded]

You forgot about writing. It's so important that it's not even graded on a numeric scale.

LOL. I love reading/writing, so I don't have a problem trying to validate that part, but if I had to...

Verbal: Because God knows we're going to have to read medical journal after medical journal in order to find innovative ways to save our patients. Challenging reads give us smarter minds.

Writing: Effective written communication is necessary in general. Say on the off chance you don't actually PRACTICE medicine, but find an office job that requires a MD. Letters, grant proposals, journal articles...all require writing skills.

 

[MDminded]

Doctors use stethoscopes still, right?

So you have tubular breath sounds (like in a tube aka your trachea in the neck) and vesicular breath sounds (heard over your lungs). Tubular breath sounds are high pitched, they are loud and the inspiration phase is just as long as the expiration phase. A vesicular breath sound heard over your lungs is different. It is low-pitched, shorter, more quiet and the expiration phase is about 2/3s as long as the inspiration phase. Why? Because the last 1/3 of the noises are high-pitched frequency sounds and since sounds move better in denser mediums, the air-to-vesicle interface eliminates some of the sounds. Now. If you ever hear a tubular breath sound over the lungs, then something is WRONG. Something has replaced that vesicular fluid. It could be vesicular collapse. It could be blood like in a hemothorax. It could be serum like in a pneumonia (which features high-pitched sporadic crackles and rales) or it could be pulmonary edema of some other kind.

That's good stuff. Learn this from shadowing?

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

That's good stuff. Learn this from shadowing?

I'm going to med school in the fall and a resident gave me a CD on heart and lung sounds when she found out. Thought it would help me. It already has and it just proved to me how the MCAT is a good test and the material follows through in med school. Especially the physics.

 

[Hexon]

I'm going to med school in the fall and a resident gave me a CD on heart and lung sounds when she found out. Thought it would help me. It already has and it just proved to me how the MCAT is a good test and the material follows through in med school. Especially the physics.

sounds great;

come across anything else that's helped you or seems like it's going to help you in med school besides heart sounds?🙂

 

[Whatyousay]

LOL. I love reading/writing, so I don't have a problem trying to validate that part, but if I had to...

Verbal: Because God knows we're going to have to read medical journal after medical journal in order to find innovative ways to save our patients. Challenging reads give us smarter minds.

Writing: Effective written communication is necessary in general. Say on the off chance you don't actually PRACTICE medicine, but find an office job that requires a MD. Letters, grant proposals, journal articles...all require writing skills.

Well played. Are you a liberal arts major?

 

[bambam02]

Newtons laws in medicine: "Dont move! Your injured"

 

[MDminded]

Well played. Are you a liberal arts major?

Nooope. Majored in Biology, with concentrations in Pre-med, math, and psych. (We didn't have a minor program, so I got stuck concentrating on everything).

I'm just one of those weirdly designed people who are pretty decent at math and language. Ask me anything about history, cars, or chemistry, and I'm screwed.

 

[ridethecliche]

Nooope. Majored in Biology, with concentrations in Pre-med, math, and psych. (We didn't have a minor program, so I got stuck concentrating on everything).

I'm just one of those weirdly designed people who are pretty decent at math and language. Ask me anything about history, cars, or chemistry, and I'm screwed.

Now, if you love romance, then you must be a huge xkcd fan.

 

[MDminded]

Now, if you love romance, then you must be a huge xkcd fan.

Where would I be in life without the daily revelations I find on xkcd?

 

[Farion]

To help build your critical thinking skills and put all of the information you know together.

 

[ridethecliche]

Where would I be in life without the daily revelations I find on xkcd?

Nice.

Now I just hope that you don't want to be like marie curie or she might have to come tell you what's up.

 

[MDminded]

Nice.

Now I just hope that you don't want to be like marie curie or she might have to come tell you what's up.

Yeah. About that....