How does the name of the MD school you attend REALLY factor into Residency?

[WingedOx]

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It jumped into the USNWR top ten this year, while stanford plummited. It's always been on par with the other top 10 schools in my opinion, even when it was hanging out with UPitt.

and UPitt is SHADY company... SHADY!

 

[mmmcdowe]

and UPitt is SHADY company... SHADY!

I hear Upitt hides drugs in their simulation dummies.

 

[DoctwoB]

I hear Upitt hides drugs in their simulation dummies.

If thats the case then we've got a Sh*tton of drugs.

 

[45408]

What I have also noticed is top programs also pamper their students more. Eg: Emory SoM provides all their students with a book containing the transcripts of the lectures of all their classes from last year in addition to pod-casts from this year's lecture, whereas say UT-Memphis merely has a student-run note taking service that you can buy into, and get copies of other student's notes. Vanderbuilt gives their students 3 months to study for STEP1, versus only 1 month at UT, etc. The impression is that private or high-ranked schools are much more intent on giving their students every edge they can get versus lower tiered schools that let their students figure it out on their own.

This of course translates into (hopefully) better USMLE scores and likewise more successful placement results. Its not the name, but all the educational perks that come with the name that helps at the top schools.

I find your conclusions dubious at best. I went to MCW (which maybe makes it into your top tier, making these comments pointless) and we got all of our lecture Powerpoints in huge binders at the beginning of each class. We also had a student-run transcription service to augment these, but the school provided MP3s of every lecture by the end of the day. Except for our sh*tty parking, they did just about everything they could for us.

Three months is way too much to study for Step 1. We got just shy of 6 weeks, which was more than enough as well.

 

[JustUseYourHead]

It matters and doesn't matter...

If you're talking 2 top schools that are both in the top 40, picking the one that is #5 vs #25 is a pointless decision. The numbers change and all they are going to see if a top 40 school. If you're picking between a #5 and a NR, then it's a little more difficult, but I would still go with fit. You do have to live there and live with those people for 4 years, so consider that man. I picked the school I went to because of the fit having the opportunity to go to "higher ranked" schools. couldn't be happier and I matched at a top orthopaedics program. nuff said.

 

[DoctwoB]

I find your conclusions dubious at best. I went to MCW (which maybe makes it into your top tier, making these comments pointless) and we got all of our lecture Powerpoints in huge binders at the beginning of each class. We also had a student-run transcription service to augment these, but the school provided MP3s of every lecture by the end of the day. Except for our sh*tty parking, they did just about everything they could for us.

Three months is way too much to study for Step 1. We got just shy of 6 weeks, which was more than enough as well.

Yes, but three months means 2 months of studying then 1 month of vacation before third year starts 🙂. Of course that comes at the expense of cramming 1st 2 years into a shorter period of time.

We get 4 weeks of not required "review class" called integrated case studies, and then 5 free weeks.

 

[equios]

That and I don't think I've ever (until now, perhaps) heard of anyone whining that they had too much time to study in med school, usually its the other way around. Me? If given the choice between having 4 weeks to study for step 1 and having 3 months, you bet your hiney I'll take the 3 months without a second thought. Better have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

 

[IlDestriero]

I think electing to enroll in a less prestigious medical school when you have the opportunity to train at a very highly regarded school AND paying $100k more to go there without a really compelling reason is a colossal mistake.
WRT prestige, it's certainly less important than USMLE scores, LORs, and interviews, but when the difference between residency applicants at top programs is razor thin, it certainly could make the difference between getting your 1st choice or not. I interview residents for a very competitive fellowship. I can't say I put a lot of weight on their medical school, but I do consider the perceived strength of their residency, especially if we've had outstanding fellows from there before. Maybe that's the difference between calling you a 9 vs 10/10, and getting in or not.
If I were you, I absolutely would want all the edge I could get, and the extra $200k (interest) in my pocket. That's at least a third of a nice home in most of America. (Perhaps more important than ever as future salaries, etc are less and less certain.) Keep in mind your not comparing your "fit" between the 6th ranked school and the 25th, your looking at a top 10 vs one barely in the top 1/2. That has real differences in your opportunities, etc. even if you all end up passing the USMLE. I know I'd want more than that. I went to a highly ranked school in a part of the country I found less than ideal, I never regretted it.

 

[DoctwoB]

I think electing to enroll in a less prestigious medical school when you have the opportunity to train at a very highly regarded school AND paying $100k more to go there without a really compelling reason is a colossal mistake.
WRT prestige, it's certainly less important than USMLE scores, LORs, and interviews, but when the difference between residency applicants at top programs is razor thin, it certainly could make the difference between getting your 1st choice or not. I interview residents for a very competitive fellowship. I can't say I put a lot of weight on their medical school, but I do consider the perceived strength of their residency, especially if we've had outstanding fellows from there before. Maybe that's the difference between calling you a 9 vs 10/10, and getting in or not.
If I were you, I absolutely would want all the edge I could get, and the extra $200k (interest) in my pocket. That's at least a third of a nice home in most of America. (Perhaps more important than ever as future salaries, etc are less and less certain.)

👍👍👍

 

[WingedOx]

I absolutely would want all the edge I could get, and the extra $200k (interest) in my pocket. That's at least a third of a nice home in most of America.

I don't know if you've ever been to Michigan, but 200k is a 3000 square ft. Mansion in that state.

 

[LabMonster]

Three months is way too much to study for Step 1. We got just shy of 6 weeks, which was more than enough as well.

Pretty sure we had 6 weeks also, but I took 4 and went on a cruise. More than that is overkill, and you won't be peaking at the right time - i.e you'll be fried.

 

[mjscal]

I totally agree with IlDestriero. Which medical school you attend will make a difference if you apply to competitive residencies. Some residencies get 100 + applicants per position. Every factor than counts. The top medical schools also tend to have very good departments in most if not all fields which helps in getting LOR's from people we know. Most residencies however are not that competitive in which case the American allopathic medical school you attend will not be as important.
I do think that spending 100K more to go to another medical school just because you want to change location is foolish. Much of that 100k will start accruing interest the moment you take out the loan and by the time you have paid it off the amount will be much higher. Given that all of us think that our income will continue to decline it would be wise to control one's debt as much as possible.

 

[45408]

That and I don't think I've ever (until now, perhaps) heard of anyone whining that they had too much time to study in med school, usually its the other way around. Me? If given the choice between having 4 weeks to study for step 1 and having 3 months, you bet your hiney I'll take the 3 months without a second thought. Better have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

I wasn't whining. I was telling you that 3 months of study time for Step 1 is gratuitous for anyone who went to an accredited US MD school. Anything more is just vacation time, which is fine, I guess, but it's just coming out of your pre-clinical course time or your clinical course time.

 

[Xerxes1729]

I go to Wash U, and I've just finished my residency interviews, so maybe I can provide some useful information.

As to St Louis, it's fine, but definitely not great. It's cheap, which makes it a nice place to be a student. The park is nice, and the free museums and zoo are fun, but really, how often are you going to go? Probably not that often. The restaurant scene is probably a little better than Ann Arbor, but I'm not terribly impressed by it (although I am kind of a food snob). Bottom line, I would not take on an additional $100,000 debt just for the ability to live in St Louis.

Lifestyle aside, it's a good city for medical training. There are no city/county hospitals, so the two university hospitals, in addition to being tertiary care centers, are safety-net hospitals for a lot of really poor people.

As to whether prestige is important, it varies widely. If you want to go to a big-name academic program, particularly in a surgical field, having a good "pedigree" is helpful. A lot of those fields care a lot about letters from big-name faculty as well, so it's important to have access to them. In most other fields, it's not terribly important. Internal medicine is big enough that there's no real expectation that the people reviewing your letters will know the letter writers.

I'll be honest and say that I overestimated how helpful the big name would be for getting residency interviews. Being AOA and at the top of your class from an average medical school probably gives you a leg up over an average student from a top medical school. And furthermore, if you go to the top school with the top students, AOA and top third of the class will be a lot tougher to get into than at less competitive schools. Even at Harvard and Hopkins, one third of their class ends up at the bottom, no matter how hard they try.

Just some things to think about...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I find your conclusions dubious at best. I went to MCW (which maybe makes it into your top tier, making these comments pointless) and we got all of our lecture Powerpoints in huge binders at the beginning of each class. We also had a student-run transcription service to augment these, but the school provided MP3s of every lecture by the end of the day. Except for our sh*tty parking, they did just about everything they could for us.

Three months is way too much to study for Step 1. We got just shy of 6 weeks, which was more than enough as well.

Agreed.

Also Vandy doesn't get anywhere near 3 months to study for Step 1

 

[fleetgoddess]

Very true, and a lot of it still comes down to the individual to push themselves to make it. As the NRMP survey shows, school name is only slightly more important then the student's astrological sign in match.

I think that your reasoning is questionable on a lot of levels.

- A school is not only slightly more important than an astrological sign. It provides you the education you need to excel. All med schools are not equal. They have different services, faculty, advising. Different experiences that will effect your board scores, your involvement, your interviews. Even if the programs did not see your med school; a school will still play a role on what you learn based on environment, teaching, the hospital your at and thus they will play a role in what type of doctor you become and where you will end up.

Also did you think that perhaps self reporting by residency directors to the NRMP may not be that accurate. People often don't even realize what factors they consider when they make a decision. You make decisions daily and I'm sure you sometimes use factors you had no idea you did. Reputation of course plays a role and your naive if you think that it doesn't just because of a survey.

- Top tier med schools aren't just different from other tiers due to "perks" and the schools wanting to give their students an edge. My friends in other smaller med schools got much worse advising on how to apply to residency than I got and I really felt that some of them were at a disadvantage... I find myself giving friends at other med schools tips that we were told over the course of med school, especially during applying to residency.

Additionally some places on the interview trail even talked down about their schools or asked why they went to such a location. it is naive to think its not considered at all.

Additionally I think you should want your med school to give you every edge to excel and reach your full potential isn't that the most important thing a med school can do for you. That's why your paying the money otherwise you can learn from books in a vacuum or online course. If your school isn't doing that you should question that and I'm not saying to question UT Memphis one of my best friends goes there... I'm just saying that I don't think your argument is true.

Additionally a lot of your facts in your first post are false such as how long Vanderbilt studies for boards.

 

[Residual]

Also did you think that perhaps self reporting by residency directors to the NRMP may not be that accurate. People often don't even realize what factors they consider when they make a decision. You make decisions daily and I'm sure you sometimes use factors you had no idea you did. Reputation of course plays a role and your naive if you think that it doesn't just because of a survey.

qft

 

[WingedOx]

you bumped a one month old thread, why?

 

[dank204]

Here is my 2 cents. I worked with a resident who studied medicine somewhere in Bosnia or Serbia or somewhere over there. He said he liked Radiology but he was told that if you didn't go to med school in the US to "forget about it."

Interestingly, our hospital employs a respectable radiology group and two of the doctors studied in India, one in the Caribbean, and another in Mexico.

In our hospital all the IM and FP residents seem lost and don't speak English very well. There's one White guy in the program and he doesn't speak English very well either.

All the doctors I know of that went to competitive schools are in respectable programs.

So I guess it does matter...but then again...who knows.

 

[gschl1234]

I'll be honest and say that I overestimated how helpful the big name would be for getting residency interviews. Being AOA and at the top of your class from an average medical school probably gives you a leg up over an average student from a top medical school. And furthermore, if you go to the top school with the top students, AOA and top third of the class will be a lot tougher to get into than at less competitive schools. Even at Harvard and Hopkins, one third of their class ends up at the bottom, no matter how hard they try.

Just some things to think about...

Are you insinuating that someone who could earn admission to a top 10 school, would be AOA at an "average" school? Said person could end up ranked anywhere in either school. 🙄

 

[BrainBuff]

Each year, almost 75% of Hopkins Med graduates are accepted for residency at Hopkins and Harvard programs. So, yes. The medical school you choose to attend REALLY factors into the residency programs.

Some top schools do not even have an AOA chapter. So much for that as a factor.

 

[45408]

Each year, almost 75% of Hopkins Med graduates are accepted for residency at Hopkins and Harvard programs. So, yes. The medical school you choose to attend REALLY factors into the residency.

That just sounds more like a positive feedback loop.

 

[cowme]

Each year, almost 75% of Hopkins Med graduates are accepted for residency at Hopkins and Harvard programs. So, yes. The medical school you choose to attend REALLY factors into the residency programs.

Some top schools do not even have an AOA chapter. So much for that as a factor.

If your life goal is to be a Harvard or Hopkins-trained dermatologist, then yes, going to a top 10 school will help you quite a bit.

Otherwise, the difference is minimal. It would be dumb to waste four years of your life in a place you hated because the med school is ranked higher.

 

[WingedOx]

Each year, almost 75% of Hopkins Med graduates are accepted for residency at Hopkins and Harvard programs. So, yes. The medical school you choose to attend REALLY factors into the residency programs.

Some top schools do not even have an AOA chapter. So much for that as a factor.

umm, two things. First of all the residency programs use a match system and not a traditional admissions system like med school, so I'd like to know what the hell your definition of "accepted" is.

Secondly.