How does your program handle this?

[DrQuinn]

Since we're a new program, we're still trying to figure things out... but I have a question for all yous veterans...

How does/did your program handle people that wanted to "shadow" in the ED. Namely applicants who are not rotating in the ED, rotating at the university system you are affiliated, and haven't rotated in the past. Did your program allow them to spend a few hours in the ED following an attending/resident? We have been inundated with the requests to "hang out" in the ED...

Q

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[Febrifuge]

We point them at one of the Asst Nurse Managers. If I see him tonight, I can ask what process (if any) obsevers need to go through. At minimum, I imagine they have a frank and open discussion, so to speak, about why they want to hang out in the ED.

(My smart-guy answer would be, hook 'em up with the volunteer office, give them background checks, and put a little vest on them. You can learn a lot cleaning rooms.)

NOTE: This is the answer for random, off-the-street people, and probably for applicants who do not happen to be there for an interview as well.

 

[roja]

I believe that applicants that have interviewed are simply offered the oppurtunity to come and hang out.

Another thing that seems to have cut down on that numbers, is that the night before interviews, varying residents have a 'social' where applicants get a chance to hang out in an informal environment and pick our brains.

 

[Febrifuge]

Upon closer reading of the question, you're talking about applicants only, yeah?

Then at Hennepin, assuming the applicant is there for an interview, and the interview has gone reasonably well... they offer them the chance to hang out for a couple hours, and toss 'em some scrubs if needed.

I said hello to answered some "where is the ____"-style questions for a kid last fall who looked like a med student, except she was more intelligent in the brain region and had nice shoes on the foot region. Dead giveaway.

Now she's a G-1.

 

[Apollyon]

What's a "G-1"? General Surgery?

 

[DrQuinn]

Actually my question is not for interviewers, but for those who are applying, i.e. they haven't been given an interview but they want to "increase their odds" by being seen in the ED and meeting up with the residents and attendings. Do your programs do anythign with these applicants?

Q

 

[Seaglass]

Since I haven't seen any of these people around our ED I assume that we don't let them hang out. I think that is probably wise, after all, are a couple of hours in the ED going to be enough to really affect your evaluation of them with regards to ranking? I doubt it.

 

[Febrifuge]

What's a "G-1"? General Surgery?

It's what we call a PGY-1. An intern. A first-year resident. Apparently 'PGY-1' is still too lengthy for the fast-paced world of our county med center.

 

[jonwilli]

I actually just spent a few days over the weekend with a program. I don't believe it has any influence on the program liking the applicant, but I do believe that it influences the applicants idea about the program. Meaning, it usually is set up to follow a resident of some sort and you are not making any decisions about patient care, essentially an observer like some jo-schmo high schooler wanting to be a doc and see what it is like....

Unfortunately, many applicants do not have the opportunity to see programs that they perceive as great or perceive as below par. Many applicants are not allowed formal rotations due to unavailability and minimal amounts of elective time by some crap schools (just a personal dig at my school). It gives the applicant the chance to see what a program is really like, not the standard interview spiel. For example, I was at a program on rotation and met several residents that did not like the program and also had limited interaction with the students. From what I hear, the amount you can learn about a program on interview can be limited.

sorry for the long post, just my thoughts

 

[margaritaboy]

Since I haven't seen any of these people around our ED I assume that we don't let them hang out. I think that is probably wise, after all, are a couple of hours in the ED going to be enough to really affect your evaluation of them with regards to ranking? I doubt it.

I hung out in your ED a couple of months after my interview.

 

[Seaglass]

I think it's helpful after the interview and I know we have interviewees hang out after interviews, but not before having been offered an interview. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the utility in letting potential applicants "hang out" if they're not likely to be offered an interview anyway. I don't think it's going to change anyones' mind about offering them an interview.

 

[grouptherapy]

I think that is probably wise, after all, are a couple of hours in the ED going to be enough to really affect your evaluation of them with regards to ranking? I doubt it.

it helps in the evaluation of a program if you spot an attending being an ass towards the staff or patient

 

[margaritaboy]

I think it's helpful after the interview and I know we have interviewees hang out after interviews, but not before having been offered an interview. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the utility in letting potential applicants "hang out" if they're not likely to be offered an interview anyway. I don't think it's going to change anyones' mind about offering them an interview.

Agreed.

 

[raptor5]

Since I am a first year student can I ask the question in another way. Lets say I am interested in EM and am interested in going to Florida. I have many friends that live in St. Pete so I go down there for my biannual visit, hang out at Mons Venus, the DollHouse, and the Undertow (In reverse order) for awhile. Now what if I wanted to shadow Dr. Q at TGH on a hangover day? Wouldn't it be the same as if I was a College student interested in medicine? Of course I would not expect a LOR or for them to remember me come application or interview time, but it would give me a chance to see a program and an area of medicine when I could not possibly handle drinking for the 6th straight night? Curious, because I have often thought about this exact scenario.

 

[Febrifuge]

Since we're a new program, we're still trying to figure things out... but I have a question for all yous veterans...

How does/did your program handle people that wanted to "shadow" in the ED. Namely applicants who are not rotating in the ED, rotating at the university system you are affiliated, and haven't rotated in the past. Did your program allow them to spend a few hours in the ED following an attending/resident? We have been inundated with the requests to "hang out" in the ED... Q

I just heard back from the person who does this in our ED. The answer seems to be: as part of an interview, sure. For nursing and EMS students, as long as it's part of a credit-bearing class, with educational objectives, sure. No interview, and no academic reason to be there, then no. our guy says...

< ...We have not the time or resources to honor requests from "the curious". I will occasionally give tours to groups. All non-employees also need to be asked to sign a confidentiality agreement to protect pts rights. >

So, hope that helps. For comparison shopping purposes I'll also say we're urban, and busy (around 80 or 90k visits a year, counting Urgent Care and Peds).