How easy is it to get into DO schools?

[Maxamillion12]

Been doing some reading, and are they really less competitive than MDs? I'm talking about the established ones.

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[Osminog]

Established DO programs have less competitive admission statistics than low-tier MD programs (with the exception of HBCs and Puerto Rican schools).

"Established" DO sample:

KCUMB-KC: 505/3.6
DMU: 507/3.6
Touro-CA: 508/3.5
MSUCOM: 507/3.7

"Low-tier" MD sample:

Penn State: 510/3.8
NYMC: 512/3.6
Drexel: 512/3.7
Commonwealth: 509/3.6

 

[Doctor-In-Training99]

I think it depends on what you mean by easy. Your MCAT scores and GPA can be lower for DO than MD; however, DO schools usually draw many applicants because of these lower stats. So it can be almost more competitive than MD schools or so I've heard.

 

[Goro]

Established DO programs have less competitive admission statistics than low-tier MD programs (with the exception of HBCs, Puerto Rican schools, and some schools in the south or midwest).

Slight edit!

 

[mc29012]

Been doing some reading, and are they really less competitive than MDs? I'm talking about the established ones.

The best DO schools have lower average stat then the lower tiered MD schools for sure, but with that being said, I have seen a few people with high stats (>3.7, 510+) get absolutely no love from DO schools. Some call it yield protection, but I think that DO schools genuinely try to find applicants that fit their mission rather than just looking at stats, probably because as a poster above said, they get tons of applications, especially the established schools/"original 5".

 

[Maxamillion12]

The best DO schools have lower average stat then the lower tiered MD schools for sure, but with that being said, I have seen a few people with high stats (>3.7, 510+) get absolutely no love from DO schools. Some call it yield protection, but I think that DO schools genuinely try to find applicants that fit their mission rather than just looking at stats, probably because as a poster above said, they get tons of applications, especially the established schools/"original 5".

Thanks yall. What about a school like ICOM? Is there a difference in education there vs. PCOM or MDs, outside OMM?

 

[mc29012]

Thanks yall. What about a school like ICOM? Is there a difference in education there vs. PCOM or MDs, outside OMM?

So what makes the older established DO schools a good option is the that they have a ton of data regarding board scores, residency rates, and match lists, as well as often times having good connections with healthcare institutions in their area, which can lessen the impact of DO bias for residency. A school like ICOM has none of that. The education there could be just as good or maybe even better than at a place like PCOM, but what good is the greatest neurosurgery mind on the planet without a place to put their skills into practice?

 

[GVdoc]

Established DO programs have less competitive admission statistics than low-tier MD programs (with the exception of HBCs and Puerto Rican schools).

"Established" DO sample:

KCUMB-KC: 505/3.6
DMU: 507/3.6
Touro-CA: 508/3.5
MSUCOM: 507/3.7

"Low-tier" MD sample:

Penn State: 510/3.8
NYMC: 512/3.6
Drexel: 512/3.7
Commonwealth: 509/3.6

There are a few low-tier MD programs such as Central Michigan, Florida State, etc. that have admissions stats on par with or slightly below stats from the more established DO schools. The low-tiers you suggested are borderline mid-tier

 

[Maxamillion12]

There are a few low-tier MD programs such as Central Michigan, Florida State, etc. that have admissions stats on par with or slightly below stats from the more established DO schools. The low-tiers you suggested are borderline mid-tier

Why would they be lower than the DO?

 

[Chibucks15]

Why would they be lower than the DO?

because outside SDN DO schools aren't a death sentence. Many people just apply regionally. Some of the smartest people in my class wanna do rural family med. Its all personal preference that gets overlooked on here

 

[Osminog]

Why would they be lower than the DO?

Because they're non-elite public institutions with heavy in-state biases. Florida State is almost exclusively for Floridians, and Central Michigan is ~80% Michiganian. The academic standards they set for the applicants from their respective states are lower than their OOS standards. Because they are obligated to narrow the geographic pool for themselves, they take a hit when it comes to average GPA and MCAT.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Because they're non-elite public institutions with heavy in-state biases. Florida State is almost exclusively for Floridians, and Central Michigan is ~80% Michiganian. The academic standards they set for the applicants from their respective states are lower than their OOS standards. Because they are obligated to narrow the geographic pool for themselves, they take a hit when it comes to average GPA and MCAT.

Does that mean they give a worse education than somewhere like ICOM?

 

[Osminog]

Does that mean they give a worse education than somewhere like ICOM?

No. It just means that they're public institutions that have an obligation to the taxpayers of their respective states to accept a large proportion of in-state applicants. What I said has nothing to do with their quality of education.

ICOM is not only a DO school, but it's also new; it subjects its students to the typical DO burdens (OMM, COMLEX, anti-DO stigma), and it lacks a proven track record. I think any MD school (outside of the ones in Puerto Rico) would be a superior pick to ICOM. That being said, if your dream is to become a physician, then going to ICOM beats going nowhere at all or getting a degree abroad.

 

[GVdoc]

Interestingly, MSUCOM has about the heaviest instate bias you’ll find at 90-95% and they still produce numbers that compete with public institutions on the MD side. Considering this, it seems that there is more to it than just MD vs. DO. Central Michigan is a newer MD school that lacks some of the advantages and opportunities associated with being connected to one of the largest universities in the country in Michigan State. Some simply subscribe to the philosophy of a DO and choose to go that route as well. There are many factors that play a role in why a DO school would have higher admissions stats than some MD.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thanks yall. What about a school like ICOM? Is there a difference in education there vs. PCOM or MDs, outside OMM?

Clinical education. A school like ICOM is going to have sub-par clinical ed compared to established schools like PCOM or almost any MD school. No, going around with a preceptor that lets you do all the things does not constitute a good clinical education before anyone jumps in with that comment.

 

[Allosteopath]

Clinical education. A school like ICOM is going to have sub-par clinical ed compared to established schools like PCOM or almost any MD school. No, going around with a preceptor that lets you do all the things does not constitute a good clinical education before anyone jumps in with that comment.

I have a very hard time reading this, is sentence 3 a rebuttal to sentence 2?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have a very hard time reading this, is sentence 3 a rebuttal to sentence 2?

No it's a pre-emptive rebuttal to the people who inevitably come in and talk about how great preceptor based rotations are because of how much you get to do.

 

[Allosteopath]

No it's a pre-emptive rebuttal to the people who inevitably come in and talk about how great preceptor based rotations are because of how much you get to do.

Thanks for clarifying, I think starting the sentence with "No" tripped me up.

 

[Maxamillion12]

No it's a pre-emptive rebuttal to the people who inevitably come in and talk about how great preceptor based rotations are because of how much you get to do.

Why would that be bad?

 

[Allosteopath]

Why would that be bad?

Seeing my wife's RN preceptors, I imagine that they can vary greatly in knowledge, skillset, teaching ability, and ability to follow best practices. Simply doing a lot doesn't necessarily equate to knowing how to do things properly or safely.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Why would that be bad?

Because the point of medical school clinical education is not about teaching you the day to day of a private practice physician and how many IVs you can put in or about how many surgeries you can first assist on.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

No it's a pre-emptive rebuttal to the people who inevitably come in and talk about how great preceptor based rotations are because of how much you get to do.

There is no denial there's value in getting to perform procedures as a student with a preceptor. There is no denial that being 5th in line as a medical student to touch a patient and having good bedside teaching also has good value.
I believe a balance between the two is best.

 

[Kalam]

Is it easier than getting into an MD school? Yes.

Is it easy to get into a DO school? No.

Most DO schools get 6,000-10,000 applications per year, interview 10% of that, and accept 1 in 4 interviewees (+ waitlist, of course).

 

[The Hound]

Is it easier than getting into an MD school? Yes.

Is it easy to get into a DO school? No.

Most DO schools get 6,000-10,000 applications per year, interview 10% of that, and accept 1 in 4 interviewees (+ waitlist, of course).

PCOM and LECOM are the only schools that get close to 10,000 apps. The rest fall between 1500-6000.

 

[Gaucho97]

No. It just means that they're public institutions that have an obligation to the taxpayers of their respective states to accept a large proportion of in-state applicants. What I said has nothing to do with their quality of education.

ICOM is not only a DO school, but it's also new; it subjects its students to the typical DO burdens (OMM, COMLEX, anti-DO stigma), and it lacks a proven track record. I think any MD school (outside of the ones in Puerto Rico) would be a superior pick to ICOM. That being said, if your dream is to become a physician, then going to ICOM beats going nowhere at all or getting a degree abroad.

Why do you consider the Puerto Rican schools to be less of an option than ICOM? Do you feel that way in regards to all DO schools vs PR? That has been a question I have had for a while (DO vs PR). Glad it came up here!

 

[RNthenDoc]

Re: FSU,

FSU College of Medicine ranks as one of the toughest to gain admission

The Florida State College of Medicine’s acceptance rate of 2.6 percent puts it in a league with the Mayo Clinic School of Medicine and Stanford University.

www.tallahassee.com

They have a low MCAT avg. but 3.7 GPA average. Plus the above designation.

KCU is one of the better DO schools and has lower stats:

Student Profile

Take a look at the average KCU student, including age, gender and academic scores.

www.kcumb.edu

So yeah. FSU is much harder to get into than most (if not all) DO schools.

 

[chemdoctor]

I mean it’s easier than MD schools stats-wise. But DOs are still competitive. People can get and are rejected from DO schools every year.

 

[GypsyHummus]

In order of competitiveness for programs in healthcare:

MD>>DDS/DMD~DO>>>Optometry/Physical Therapy/PA/NP/Other mid level >>Pharmacy>>Podiatry~Caribbean.

DDS is harder to get into than DO schools, but the DAT is also significantly easier than the MCAT.

 

[PA_dud3]

In order of competitiveness for programs in healthcare:

MD>>DDS/DMD~DO>>>Optometry/Physical Therapy/PA/NP/Other mid level >>Pharmacy>>Podiatry~Caribbean.

DDS is harder to get into than DO schools, but the DAT is also significantly easier than the MCAT.

I would argue Pharmacy behind Pod. Many schools no longer require PCAT, while Pod schools all have an MCAT req as far as I know. Plus Pharm is only 2 years undergrad.

 

[chemdoctor]

In order of competitiveness for programs in healthcare:

MD>>DDS/DMD~DO>>>Optometry/Physical Therapy/PA/NP/Other mid level >>Pharmacy>>Podiatry~Caribbean.

DDS is harder to get into than DO schools, but the DAT is also significantly easier than the MCAT.

Not to be annoying but isn't MD-PhD more competitive than MD? Meh. I get what you meant.

But where do DO/PhD programs rank amongst this list?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not to be annoying but isn't MD-PhD more competitive than MD? Meh. I get what you meant.

But where do DO/PhD programs rank amongst this list?

Not hard. They aren't like the MD-PhD programs you apply to directly. You just get into a DO school that has that option and then apply for the PhD program separately.

 

[PA_dud3]

Hypothetical question here, Is it uncommon for people to apply DO in their first cycle?

Lets say our hypothetical applicant has a 3.7/508 with average EC's, little to no research/leadership. Would he/she get any love if they applied to only DO schools (lets assume their interest is primary care).

 

[Maxamillion12]

In order of competitiveness for programs in healthcare:

MD>>DDS/DMD~DO>>>Optometry/Physical Therapy/PA/NP/Other mid level >>Pharmacy>>Podiatry~Caribbean.

DDS is harder to get into than DO schools, but the DAT is also significantly easier than the MCAT.

Are DO schools harder to get into over DDS? In terms of general application requirements

 

[Jyggaswoop]

Are DO schools harder to get into over DDS? In terms of general application requirements

a competitive applicant to DO and DDS are similar in terms of gpa/extracurriculars except for the MCAT. The DAT is 100 x easier than the MCAT ( I took both, got 21 AA which is 90 percentile on dat), and around 70th percentile on MCAT, also I studied way less for the DAT.

MD is by far the most competitive because a competitive MCAT score of 512+ is difficult to achieve, while a competitve MCAT score for most osteopathy schools is easier, which is more difficult and time consuming to obtain that a competitive DAT.

 

[Jyggaswoop]

Hypothetical question here, Is it uncommon for people to apply DO in their first cycle?

Lets say our hypothetical applicant has a 3.7/508 with average EC's, little to no research/leadership. Would he/she get any love if they applied to only DO schools (lets assume their interest is primary care).

yes. you will not get into a MD school with those stats (barring your state MD). you will get love from DO schools.

 

[HaveAnOsteoblast]

Hypothetical question here, Is it uncommon for people to apply DO in their first cycle?

Lets say our hypothetical applicant has a 3.7/508 with average EC's, little to no research/leadership. Would he/she get any love if they applied to only DO schools (lets assume their interest is primary care).

I have 3.8/507, and I applied only DO my first and only app cycle

 

[Maxamillion12]

yes. you will not get into a MD school with those stats (barring your state MD). you will get love from DO schools.

You could get into some of the private MD school with those stats, providing the rest of your application was good. 512 isn't the minimum cutoff

 

[PA_dud3]

I have 3.8/507, and I applied only DO my first and only app cycle

May I ask how many you applied to?

 

[Maxamillion12]

Hypothetical question here, Is it uncommon for people to apply DO in their first cycle?

Lets say our hypothetical applicant has a 3.7/508 with average EC's, little to no research/leadership. Would he/she get any love if they applied to only DO schools (lets assume their interest is primary care).

You could do MD with those, just improve your stats and apply broadly.

 

[Jyggaswoop]

You could do MD with those, just improve your stats and apply broadly.

well given the extracurriculars he described, i think he would be considered lucky if he got in, unless URM.

 

[PA_dud3]

You could do MD with those, just improve your stats and apply broadly.

These arent my actual stats, just a hypothetical. Im a sophomore with a 3.96 atm, just spitballing. I am thinking about applying DO when the time comes, however.

 

[Maxamillion12]

well given the extracurriculars he described, i think he would be considered lucky if he got in, unless URM.

Oh I'm saying with solid to good ECs he could get in with those?

 

[Jyggaswoop]

Oh I'm saying with solid to good ECs he could get in with those?

well yeah definetly, but not given the situation he had originally wrote.

 

[Maxamillion12]

well yeah definetly, but not given the situation he had originally wrote.

All cleared up now

 

[PA_dud3]

Oh I'm saying with solid to good ECs he could get in with those?

well yeah definetly, but not given the situation he had originally wrote.

What would you change EC wise?

 

[Maxamillion12]

What would you change EC wise?

You'd probably have to get more leadership and maybe get a few rewards/publication.

 

[Goro]

Hypothetical question here, Is it uncommon for people to apply DO in their first cycle?

Lets say our hypothetical applicant has a 3.7/508 with average EC's, little to no research/leadership. Would he/she get any love if they applied to only DO schools (lets assume their interest is primary care).

I've never seen a study that breaks the applicants down into categories as such, but I'd wager that the majority of applying to DO in cycle 1 are those who are self-aware enough to know that their chances for MD are low. Offhand, my gut tells me that most of my students get into my school on cycle 2. Remember, the median age of DO matriculants is older than that for MD. I'm sure someone can dig up the AACOM data set that can verify this.

And yes, your hypothetical applicant would get plenty of love.

DO schools do NOT do resource protection in the way that MD schools do. I don't think that we can afford it. We also don't care about research.

 

[sunshinefl]

a competitive applicant to DO and DDS are similar in terms of gpa/extracurriculars except for the MCAT. The DAT is 100 x easier than the MCAT ( I took both, got 21 AA which is 90 percentile on dat), and around 70th percentile on MCAT, also I studied way less for the DAT.

MD is by far the most competitive because a competitive MCAT score of 512+ is difficult to achieve, while a competitve MCAT score for most osteopathy schools is easier, which is more difficult and time consuming to obtain that a competitive DAT.

Osteopathic medicine*

You could do MD with those, just improve your stats and apply broadly.

You are simultaneously saying those stats are fine but also to improve them? Makes no sense....

 

[HaveAnOsteoblast]

May I ask how many you applied to?

25. Applied in October. 10 II’s.

 

[PA_dud3]

I've never seen a study that breaks the applicants down into categories as such, but I'd wager that the majority of applying to DO in cycle 1 are those who are self-aware enough to know that their chances for MD are low. Offhand, my gut tells me that most of my students get into my school on cycle 2. Remember, the median age of DO matriculants is older than that for MD. I'm sure someone can dig up the AACOM data set that can verify this.

And yes, your hypothetical applicant would get plenty of love.

DO schools do NOT do resource protection in the way that MD schools do. I don't think that we can afford it. We also don't care about research.

When you say resource protection, you are talking about not interviewing higher stat applicants due to the chance they might not matriculate even if accepted, correct? This is the first time I've really heard about this, but it's good to know DO schools don't do it if that's the case.