How easy is it to get into DO schools?

[AnatomyGrey12]

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Think you're off on your gen surg salary calculation.
Agree with everything you said though.

Lol yeah they need another 200k on there.

 

[Ho0v-man]

If anything it’s too easy to get into a DO school right now. There’s some high stats outliers like ccom and azcom for sure. But when I applied with a 504 and 3.8 and >10,000 hrs of healthcare experience a few years ago, I got some pre interview rejections from brand new schools. And didn’t get my first acceptance until January.

I don’t know how things are now, but at the time LUCOM, the red-headed step child of osteopathic medicine was screening our sub 500 mcats. Applying with an mcat that low was basically suicide unless you explain in your courtesy interview that you were tired on test day because you stayed up late the previous night curing cancer.

Now I’m reading a lot of posts by people with multiple acceptances to new schools with much lower stats. At the same time we’re losing protected residencies and just general numbers of residency spots for DOs. This will be absolutely devastating to the DO match rate and ruin the lives of the bottom quartile comlex only club. And our schools are doing essentially nothing to prepare them for this.

You could fog up a mirror and get into a DO school somewhere right now. The opportunities are decreasing and the tuition is skyrocketing.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Also, a good chunk of folks attend Carib schools because family members and mentors did it in the 90s and the results were completely fine. I could easily see being duped. One of my mentors asked if I got rejected from the Caribbean when I told him I was going DO. Just out of touch.

 

[chemdoctor]

Also, a good chunk of folks attend Carib schools because family members and mentors did it in the 90s and the results were completely fine. I could easily see being duped. One of my mentors asked if I got rejected from the Caribbean when I told him I was going DO. Just out of touch.

Damn. So weird. DO>>>>Caribb honestly

Yeah in the nineties it may have worked but now? Especially with the merger?

Applying DO >>>>>>>>>> Caribbean

 

[Kardio]

One of my mentors asked if I got rejected from the Caribbean when I told him I was going DO. Just out of touch.

Woah. Did it really used to be like that...?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

If anything it’s too easy to get into a DO school right now. There’s some high stats outliers like ccom and azcom for sure. But when I applied with a 504 and 3.8 and >10,000 hrs of healthcare experience a few years ago, I got some pre interview rejections from brand new schools. And didn’t get my first acceptance until January.

I don’t know how things are now, but at the time LUCOM, the red-headed step child of osteopathic medicine was screening our sub 500 mcats. Applying with an mcat that low was basically suicide unless you explain in your courtesy interview that you were tired on test day because you stayed up late the previous night curing cancer.

Now I’m reading a lot of posts by people with multiple acceptances to new schools with much lower stats. At the same time we’re losing protected residencies and just general numbers of residency spots for DOs. This will be absolutely devastating to the DO match rate and ruin the lives of the bottom quartile comlex only club. And our schools are doing essentially nothing to prepare them for this.

You could fog up a mirror and get into a DO school somewhere right now. The opportunities are decreasing and the tuition is skyrocketing.

The applicant pool is a

If anything it’s too easy to get into a DO school right now. There’s some high stats outliers like ccom and azcom for sure. But when I applied with a 504 and 3.8 and >10,000 hrs of healthcare experience a few years ago, I got some pre interview rejections from brand new schools. And didn’t get my first acceptance until January.

I don’t know how things are now, but at the time LUCOM, the red-headed step child of osteopathic medicine was screening our sub 500 mcats. Applying with an mcat that low was basically suicide unless you explain in your courtesy interview that you were tired on test day because you stayed up late the previous night curing cancer.

Now I’m reading a lot of posts by people with multiple acceptances to new schools with much lower stats. At the same time we’re losing protected residencies and just general numbers of residency spots for DOs. This will be absolutely devastating to the DO match rate and ruin the lives of the bottom quartile comlex only club. And our schools are doing essentially nothing to prepare them for this.

You could fog up a mirror and get into a DO school somewhere right now. The opportunities are decreasing and the tuition is skyrocketing.

The applicant pool is getting diluted with all the DO and MD schools opening. Highly intelligent people are also seeking other career paths. IMO, This is why board failures are rising,( at least at my school), and schools are twisting themselve into pretzels trying to help these students pass boards. The ones being hurt the most are the bottom quartile who should have done a Post Bac instead of being accepted. Schools should open PostBac programs and be 5 yrs for these students from the beginning. It would do more to ensure their success.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Damn. So weird. DO>>>>Caribb honestly

Yeah in the nineties it may have worked but now? Especially with the merger?

Applying DO >>>>>>>>>> Caribbean

Yeah that’s absolutely the case now. But think if say your dad and two people you shadowed were both Carib grads in competitive fields who looked down on DOs. Would this still be obvious? It wouldn’t for me.

Woah. Did it really used to be like that...?

Yeah. In the late 90s early 2000s, the difference between big 4 Caribs and DOs was really marginal. Because DOs has their own residencies that were much more equipped to handle the significantly smaller number of DOs at the time, we didn’t have much of an acgme presence compared to now. Since acgme is generally regarded as more desirable than aoa residencies, one could have made an argument that Carib was > than DO, at least at the big 4.

And while I’ve made some comments about the low standards at osteopathic schools in this thread, they were a joke in even the late 90s compared to now. The Carib schools and DO schools standards weren’t really different. Heck something like 12 years ago you get into ccom with like a 23 mcat. Pretty sure your computer would catch on fire if you submitted that secondary today.

Btw, I’m not implying low undergrad stats means you won’t be a good doctor. Most of that crap is nonsense. But those low stats accompanied by such a high number of DOs means impending doom for future match rates.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Why can’t the bottom quartile comlex only club get a spot in former aoa fm/I’m/peds/path/neuro? Those specialties had spots open in the last year match and most of the former aoa programs in those specialties have transitioned to the acgme. Is it cause better img candidates are gonna replace them?

There’s the img thing sure. After all, if your program routinely hasn’t filled, your not just gonna keep letting it go unfilled just to be loyal to DOs who apparently don’t want to train there, right? But even they remained loyal to DOs, if we keep renovating every abandoned Burger King into a DO school with a 150+ students and not requiring them to engage in any GME creation, then eventually the match will become a really crappy game of musical chairs. If you’re standing when the music stops, you have no way of paying back your 300k of non-dischargeable debt.

Also this is news too me. I know my school, which is about a decade old now screens based on mcat(>500 only). Maybe the newer schools are not doing this!? But I was under the impression that each year the matriculation standards were getting higher across the board and it was harder to get into DO schools. I mean I remember my cousin who went to TCOM say that 5 years ago thier mcat average was barley 500. Maybe the few threads you have read on sdn with low stats with multiple acceptances had some crazy extracurricular or were just outliers. I still believe that the stats are going up tho

i hope you’re right. I think the year I applied the average mcat was a 504 for DO. I don’t know what it is now bc I’m not really plugged into the premed stuff anymore. I also hope everyone reading this who hasn’t started is ready to bust *** and do better than what their school expects from them.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Also this is news too me. I know my school, which is about a decade old now screens based on mcat(>500 only). Maybe the newer schools are not doing this!? But I was under the impression that each year the matriculation standards were getting higher across the board and it was harder to get into DO schools. I mean I remember my cousin who went to TCOM say that 5 years ago thier mcat average was barley 500. Maybe the few threads you have read on sdn with low stats with multiple acceptances had some crazy extracurricular or were just outliers. I still believe that the stats are going up tho

5 years ago we had the old MCAT, not the new 3-digit score one. And yes, admission standards goes up each year, but newer schools still have to accept lower stats students to fill their class. Although a lot of well established DO schools are also averaging 500 MCAT.

Osteopathic Schools Ranked by MCAT

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I still believe that the stats are going up tho

In general sure, but new schools have to reach significantly deeper into the low stat barrel in order to fill.

 

[star.buck]

Michigander - Wikipedia

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According to the all-knowing Wikipedia, either term works. 😛

Native Michigander here... if you say Michiganian I know immediately you’re a foreigner from a long lost land and I’ll look at you suspiciously while dipping something in ranch dressing and sipping on my Vernors that I purchased at Meijers.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Not sure if someone else already posted the stats but the AACOM website lists stats for the most recent entering classes (General Admission Requirements) and this thread breaks it down by school (Mean MCAT and Mean GPAs for all DO Schools (scraped from ChooseDO))

 

[Isoval]

In general sure, but new schools have to reach significantly deeper into the low stat barrel in order to fill.

And herein lies the issue of why we all hate the rapid expansion of the DO network of schools.

 

[Isoval]

Also this is news too me. I know my school, which is about a decade old now screens based on mcat(>500 only). Maybe the newer schools are not doing this!? But I was under the impression that each year the matriculation standards were getting higher across the board and it was harder to get into DO schools. I mean I remember my cousin who went to TCOM say that 5 years ago thier mcat average was barley 500. Maybe the few threads you have read on sdn with low stats with multiple acceptances had some crazy extracurricular or were just outliers. I still believe that the stats are going up tho

I'm not sure I believe that.

C/O 2020 -> 505 MCAT
C/O 2021 -> 506 MCAT
C/O 2022 -> 507 MCAT
C/O 2023 -> 508 MCAT (reportedly, this isn't published information yet)

So, four years ago, the average was a 505 with a pretty consistent 1 point increase year over year. I don't buy that five years ago it was barely cracking 500.

Of course, I have no idea what the numbers were before C/O 2020.

 

[Alkain]

I'm not sure I believe that.

C/O 2020 -> 505 MCAT
C/O 2021 -> 506 MCAT
C/O 2022 -> 507 MCAT
C/O 2023 -> 508 MCAT (reportedly, this isn't published information yet)

So, four years ago, the average was a 505 with a pretty consistent 1 point increase year over year. I don't buy that five years ago it was barely cracking 500.

Of course, I have no idea what the numbers were before C/O 2020.

I don't think its a good measure to use TCOM. TCOM is a bit different than the other DO schools in that its not only a state school but a Texas state school. In terms of residency/rotations it's similar to low tier MD.


DO matriculation stats have remained pretty stagnant over the last couple years overall.

If you look at GPA
2015: 3.43s/3.53c
2016: 3.45s/3.54c
2017: 3.43s/3.53c
2018: 3.43s/3.54c

and then MCAT
2015: 27.33 (502-503 depending on which year you use)
2016: 502.17
2017: 503.05
2018: 503.83

But,
Here are the major events affecting average matriculation stats:
2015 - New MCAT, lowered scores
2015 - VCOM-AU, OU-HCOM Cleveland schools open
2016 - BCOM, NYITCOM A-State schools open
2017 - ARCOM, UIWSOM, KCU-Jolin, RVUCOM-SU schools open
2017 - Removal of grade replacement, lowered s/cGPA. Per AACOM this change only affected GPA by ~.03
2018 - ICOM opens
Plus however many schools had class expansions.

Total enrollment has gone from 7,219 in 2015-2016 to 8,422 in 2018-2019. An increase of ~16.7% in 4 years. Application numbers have remained steady at ~185-190k.

So I'd say stats would have gone up considerably had they eased up a bit on the expansion and that the increase in class size/campuses is the main thing holding down matriculant stats.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

In general sure, but new schools have to reach significantly deeper into the low stat barrel in order to fill.

Although, I was very surprised ICOM inaugural class averaged 3.5 GPA and 503 MCAT.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Although, I was very surprised ICOM inaugural class averaged 3.5 GPA and 503 MCAT.

I couldn’t find that info in my 30 second google search. But I remember when I was applying seeing some schools massage that statistic to the point where they were really reporting the average stats of those accepted rather than those who matriculate.

I don’t know if that’s the case for ICOM though.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I couldn’t find that info in my 30 second google search. But I remember when I was applying seeing some schools massage that statistic to the point where they were really reporting the average stats of those accepted rather than those who matriculate.

I don’t know if that’s the case for ICOM though.

Yea, I don't know if that's the case with ICOM, but that's what's being reported on the Choose DO explorer website right now.

 

[AlteredScale]

I couldn’t find that info in my 30 second google search. But I remember when I was applying seeing some schools massage that statistic to the point where they were really reporting the average stats of those accepted rather than those who matriculate.

I don’t know if that’s the case for ICOM though.

DO schools love to manipulate and share the data to make it look better than it is (sharing "100% placement rate" on their FB page as a way of meeting the "100% match rate" at other schools when in reality that is after SOAP and scramble). It's a smart way to pull in more applications.

@Alkain hit the nail on the head when stating why stats continue to stay low and not meet those of even lower tier US MD schools. It's not in the agenda of AACOM or the AOA to do so. IMHO, they want to expand class sizes and schools for money as well as political power. In doing this, DO schools known they will have lower scorers for the COMLEX and USMLE, and these medical students will "fill the gap" in pursuing primary care previously AOA residencies in smaller communities, whether they wanted to or not.