How extensively is "resource management" (aka, "yield protection") really implemented?

[EarpBars]

I realize this is a topic that's brought up quite often on SDN. However, a lot of what is discussed about this topic is anecdotal and speculation (from both applicant and adcom side). So my question is:

How extensively is "resource management" (aka, yield protection) really implemented either pre- or post-interview?

Particularly for post-interview, is it possible that resource management/yield protection is done mostly at the discretion of the dean of admissions after the adcoms have deliberated on each candidate? I.e., at some schools, will the dean have a lot of discretion on who is admitted from the waitlist at a certain point in time in the cycle and will therefore be mindful of resources (resource management/yield protection)?

Any logical and compelling discussion is welcomed.

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[Officer Farva]

I realize this is a topic that's brought up quite often on SDN. However, a lot of what is discussed about this topic is anecdotal and speculation (from both applicant and adcom side). So my question is:

How extensively is "resource management" (aka, yield protection) really implemented either pre- or post-interview?

Particularly for post-interview, is it possible that resource management/yield protection is done mostly at the discretion of the dean of admissions after the adcoms have deliberated on each candidate? I.e., at some schools, will the dean have a lot of discretion on who is admitted from the waitlist at a certain point in time in the cycle and will therefore be mindful of resources (resource management/yield protection)?

Any logical and compelling discussion is welcomed.

Not an admissions expert, but a veteran of two cycles that got in. My application was at a weird level of competitiveness where I could only gain interviews from top programs or my safeties, nothing mid tier. My safety interviews, in both cycles, only resulted in WLs and rejections. Trust me, I have no problem interviewing and talking to people. I was in a fraternity, so social interactions are a part of every day life. Mid-tiers seem to do lots of yield protection pre-interview, since everyone applies there.

I am very good at finding out what schools are proud of and marketing myself there. However, when those safeties see me having a certain amount of research, even post-II, I suspect they might assume I would rather be at a top 20. No matter how much I emphasized my clinical service and volunteering, they still saw me as a research geek with a high MCAT.

So, n=1 take it with a grain of salt.

 

[EarpBars]

Not an admissions expert, but a veteran of two cycles that got in. My application was at a weird level of competitiveness where I could only gain interviews from top programs or my safeties, nothing mid tier. My safety interviews, in both cycles, only resulted in WLs and rejections. Trust me, I have no problem interviewing and talking to people. I was in a fraternity, so social interactions are a part of every day life. Mid-tiers seem to do lots of yield protection pre-interview, since everyone applies there.

I am very good at finding out what schools are proud of and marketing myself there. However, when those safeties see me having a certain amount of research, even post-II, I suspect they might assume I would rather be at a top 20. No matter how much I emphasized my clinical service and volunteering, they still saw me as a research geek with a high MCAT.

So, n=1 take it with a grain of salt.

However, the million dollar question is this: if a school is trying to form its best class possible, why would they pass up (waitlist/reject) an interviewed candidate even if the chances of him/her attending were low?

From your account, it sounds like enthusiasm for the school of interest is important, which is probably is, but is also probably not more important than trying to get together the best class possible. On the other hand, some of these schools may equate enthusiasm for the school = happiness of its students = success of its students.

Nonetheless, it's always in the school's best interest to get the best students possible, correct?

 

[Officer Farva]

However, the million dollar question is this: if a school is trying to form its best class possible, why would they pass up (waitlist/reject) an interviewed candidate even if the chances of him/her attending were low?

From your account, it sounds like enthusiasm for the school of interest is important, which is probably is, but is also probably not more important than trying to get together the best class possible. On the other hand, some of these schools may equate enthusiasm for the school = happiness of its students = success of its students.

Nonetheless, it's always in the school's best interest to get the best students possible, correct?

Exactly! I was good at showing enthusiasm, not that it meant anything for them. I also moved around from major cities my whole life, like NYC, SF, Chicago, etc. I nevr really lived in a rural/suburban setting. I think they also saw me as an uptight city boy, whether I acted nice or not.

 

[whatever5]

Particularly for post-interview, is it possible that resource management/yield protection is done mostly at the discretion of the dean of admissions after the adcoms have deliberated on each candidate? I.e., at some schools, will the dean have a lot of discretion on who is admitted from the waitlist at a certain point in time in the cycle and will therefore be mindful of resources (resource management/yield protection)?

Any logical and compelling discussion is welcomed.

I think I remember @LizzyM posting saying that yield protection happens BEFORE the interview. Seeing as the scare resource that needs to be manage we're talking about are interview spots, it doesn't really make sense not to accept a good candidate that was interviewed for the sake of having a low acceptance rate.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

Not an admissions expert, but a veteran of two cycles that got in. My application was at a weird level of competitiveness where I could only gain interviews from top programs or my safeties, nothing mid tier. My safety interviews, in both cycles, only resulted in WLs and rejections. Trust me, I have no problem interviewing and talking to people. I was in a fraternity, so social interactions are a part of every day life. Mid-tiers seem to do lots of yield protection pre-interview, since everyone applies there.

I am very good at finding out what schools are proud of and marketing myself there. However, when those safeties see me having a certain amount of research, even post-II, I suspect they might assume I would rather be at a top 20. No matter how much I emphasized my clinical service and volunteering, they still saw me as a research geek with a high MCAT.

So, n=1 take it with a grain of salt.

Any advice for schools to apply to as a research/mcat geek while avoiding yield protection?

 

[Officer Farva]

Any advice for schools to apply to as a research/mcat geek while avoiding yield protection?

Not really, the one acceptance at a top 20 I got was due to luck. Apply broadly, like very broadly. Continue doing research for top 20s. Volunteer and do clinical stuff for everyone else.

 

[Lawpy]

Not really, the one acceptance at a top 20 I got was due to luck. Apply broadly, like very broadly. Continue doing research for top 20s. Volunteer and do clinical stuff for everyone else.

I'm a little lost how applying broadly would help when most of the low tiers will yield protect you and reject you by default regardless of what you say to appeal them. This is in the case of average GPA/high MCAT/strong research/strong clinical, ECs applicant.

 

[bananafish94]

The rationale behind yield protection is that the school doesn't want to expend resources or time on interviewing someone who won't come to the school. Post interview, it doesn't make any sense. If you get rejected post interview you're just not competitive enough.

 

[Officer Farva]

I'm a little lost how applying broadly would help when most of the low tiers will yield protect you and reject you by default regardless of what you say to appeal them. This is in the case of average GPA/high MCAT/strong research/strong clinical, ECs applicant.

I can't really give any better advice because I am still confused by the process. You should also include cookie cutter major in there like bio/chem, although the one thing that did set me apart was my computational background.

 

[Lawpy]

I can't really give any better advice because I am still confused by the process. You should also include cookie cutter major in there like bio/chem, although the one thing that did set me apart was my computational background.

I thought you mentioned a while ago that your computational background worked against you because adcoms couldn't take you seriously

 

[Officer Farva]

I thought you mentioned a while ago that your computational background worked against you because adcoms couldn't take you seriously

Nope, my research background held me back. Every time I got an interview, by luck of the draw I had someone from a less basic science oriented specialty like EM, General IM, psych, etc. By their own accounts, they claimed I didn't know what "real medicine" was and that my goal was to make big bucks in a lab. If you ever met a postdoc or PI, I assure you they aren't making it rain money lol.

 

[FreckleFart99]

Not an admissions expert, but a veteran of two cycles that got in. My application was at a weird level of competitiveness where I could only gain interviews from top programs or my safeties, nothing mid tier. My safety interviews, in both cycles, only resulted in WLs and rejections. Trust me, I have no problem interviewing and talking to people. I was in a fraternity, so social interactions are a part of every day life. Mid-tiers seem to do lots of yield protection pre-interview, since everyone applies there.

Man that's very strange. Similar thing happened to me (albeit with only 2 interviews). At one safety school interview I was rejected despite me doing well (in my perception of course), then shortly after I received an II at a school I considered very high tier on my school list.

The thing is though, why would a school yield protection me after extending an interview? Haven't they already wasted some resources on me? Or after meeting me did they get the sense that I would not attend so they didn't want to hurt their ratios?

It's hard for me to tell because I'd certainly like to think I got rejected because they thought I was just soooooo great (or maybe disinterested), lol.

This process is very opaque...

 

[FreckleFart99]

The rationale behind yield protection is that the school doesn't want to expend resources or time on interviewing someone who won't come to the school. Post interview, it doesn't make any sense. If you get rejected post interview you're just not competitive enough.

See I think that's the rationale behind resource management, not yield protection. Yield protection is trying to keep their acceptance vs matriculation ratio close to 1.

 

[bananafish94]

See I think that's the rationale behind resource management, not yield protection. Yield protection is trying to keep their acceptance vs matriculation ratio close to 1.

Why do they care about that? Does it increase their ranking or something?

 

[Officer Farva]

Man that's very strange. Similar thing happened to me (albeit with only 2 interviews). At one safety school interview I was rejected despite me doing well (in my perception of course), then shortly after I received an II at a school I considered very high tier on my school list.

The thing is though, why would a school yield protection me after extending an interview? Haven't they already wasted some resources on me? Or after meeting me did they get the sense that I would not attend so they didn't want to hurt their ratios?

It's hard for me to tell because I'd certainly like to think I got rejected because they thought I was just soooooo great (or maybe disinterested), lol.

This process is very opaque...

This process certainly favors the above average or the top tier candidates. Average candidates get whatever they can get. Above average candidates get loads of low-mid tier interviews. Lower tier candidates struggle but may end up being successful. Top tier candidates rack up 1000s in traveling fees going to all their top 20 interviews.

While me, the guy between, above average and top tier, goes through a highly randomized process.

 

[Pastamahn]

Why do they care about that? Does it increase their ranking or something?

I think it just makes it easier for them to come out with near their desired class size. I feel like if they just accepted every competitive applicant, even ones that probably will not matriculate, it would be near impossible to gauge what their actual class size would ultimately boil down to.

 

[shingleslol]

There are also plenty of stories of top 20 accepted applicants getting many other acceptances to mid and low tier schools. It's Simply not true these people just reject research heavy, high stat people for that reason alone. What I think is definitely true is that as an applicant like that you are competing against other similar applicants and it is up to you to convince the adcoms that you are both a better fit than those other high stat people and that you are truly considering coming. Just because someone said they were very convincing during their interviews, doesn't make it true.

 

[bananafish94]

I think it just makes it easier for them to come out with near their desired class size. I feel like if they just accepted every competitive applicant, even ones that probably will not matriculate, it would be near impossible to gauge what their actual class size would ultimately boil down to.

But if there is a historically consistent ratio, as there seems to be at most schools (schools I've interviewed at have blatantly said we will offer X amount of acceptances for Y amount of seats) then what does it matter what the actual yield is, as long as is doesn't change significantly over the years? What is the inherent advantage of having a 1:1 acceptance:matriculation ration?

 

[LizzyM]

This is just hearsay and from an assistant dean of admissions years ago but what I heard was that some schools want a high yield... that almost all the offers made are accepted. I think that this had something to do (of course!) with rankings. So, the school wasn't going to "like" you unless they were sure you would "like" them.

When it comes to the waitlist, sometimes a school needs to balance by gender etc for the sake of diversity, and will choose in that way. Other times, it is just a matter of trying to fill the seats at the last minute and wanting to spend limited resources calling people who will say "yes". When you need to fill a seat on the waitlist, you want to be relatively sure the applicant will say "yes" and you won't be back at square one the following week.

If you are holding a offer at a higher ranked school and staying on the waitlist at a lower ranked school in a more geographically desirable area (for you) then you should make this known to the school you'd prefer.

 

[justadream]

The rationale behind yield protection is that the school doesn't want to expend resources or time on interviewing someone who won't come to the school. Post interview, it doesn't make any sense. If you get rejected post interview you're just not competitive enough.

I guess an extreme example would be if you interviewed at a borderline top 20 school early in the cycle and then had a huge update (e.g., getting the Rhodes which is announced in November). That borderline top 20 might just think you are going to HMS so it might WL you.

 

[gyngyn]

I guess an extreme example would be if you interviewed at a borderline top 20 school early in the cycle and then had a huge update (e.g., getting the Rhodes which is announced in November). That borderline top 20 might just think you are going to HMS so it might WL you.

They would have known this before they interviewed you. If they really don't think you'll come they wouldn't waste their resources interviewing you. If the school waitlisted the candidates that the committee loved, there would be mutiny.