How futile is what I'm doing currently?

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

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Hey guys,

I'm currently enrolled in the Pre-Health Postbacc at Hofstra (really an informal post bacc with greater administrative support). I went an Ivy (Neuroscience and Behavior Major), bombed 2nd year and ended up with a 3.13/2.76 GPA. I have 65 credits of sciences (125 credits total) and plan to, by May, have completed 25 additional credits of sciences. 11 of those are basic science retakes (for DO), since I got a C in Bio 1 and C-'s in Bio 2 and Physics 2. The rest are upper-level. My EC's are good and am URM. MCAT scores come out on the 24th. NY resident.

I had thought that I would use this year to build up to a good SMP and apply during the program, but upon utilization of the search function it doesn't seem that, for somebody with my stats, applying during the SMP would benefit me that much. Because traditional premeds don't actually work for money and spend all their time volunteering, I have no savings and would at least like to work to help pay for my applications. I can get a job as a medical scribe while I apply and I'm getting the feeling that will have as much of an impact as applying during a 1-year SMP. >_< I feel like I won't be getting my $60,000+ worth if I apply during.

If my GPA is so low that an SMP won't me get in MD schools anyway (unless I wait another year), should I just focus on making the best of this year and apply to all DO schools and maybe some newer MD schools? There are some lay offs in my family that limit the amount of support I can get for non-tuition expenses, which is part of the reason that having to wait to apply after the SMP is a stretch.

(also, how do you think these 25 credits will be perceived? I made a point to do them at a 4 year rather than a CC for a reason...)

(...maybe a better title would have been "would an SMP be futile? This topic is a mess, I'm just uncomfortable with my position and venting)

 

[deleted248403]

Hey guys,

I'm currently enrolled in the Pre-Health Postbacc at Hofstra (really an informal post bacc with greater administrative support). I went an Ivy (Neuroscience and Behavior Major), bombed 2nd year and ended up with a 3.13/2.76 GPA. I have 65 credits of sciences (125 credits total) and plan to, by May, have completed 25 additional credits of sciences. 11 of those are basic science retakes (for DO), since I got a C in Bio 1 and C-'s in Bio 2 and Physics 2. The rest are upper-level. My EC's are good and am URM. MCAT scores come out on the 24th. NY resident.

I had thought that I would use this year to build up to a good SMP and apply during the program, but upon utilization of the search function it doesn't seem that, for somebody with my stats, applying during the SMP would benefit me that much. Because traditional premeds don't actually work for money and spend all their time volunteering, I have no savings and would at least like to work to help pay for my applications. I can get a job as a medical scribe while I apply and I'm getting the feeling that will have as much of an impact as applying during a 1-year SMP. >_< I feel like I won't be getting my $60,000+ worth if I apply during.

If my GPA is so low that an SMP won't me get in MD schools anyway (unless I wait another year), should I just focus on making the best of this year and apply to all DO schools and maybe some newer MD schools? There are some lay offs in my family that limit the amount of support I can get for non-tuition expenses, which is part of the reason that having to wait to apply after the SMP is a stretch.

(also, how do you think these 25 credits will be perceived? I made a point to do them at a 4 year rather than a CC for a reason...)

(...maybe a better title would have been "would an SMP be futile? This topic is a mess, I'm just uncomfortable with my position and venting)

Sounds like an SMP is a good option for you. If you do well enough in an SMP and get a good MCAT, med schools will take your cGPA with a pinch of salt.

Your URM status is also going to help your apps

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

How do you think schools respond to SMP's while you're applying? I'm prepped to apply early and broadly, but doesn't the fact that the schools have to wait for grades (if they even considering them) really work against me since both of my GPA's are so low? It's not that I don't want to do an SMP, it's that I am skeptical as to the level of difference it makes if I want to get into medical school for 2015. Being below the screen is also a concern, even if I were to kill the SMP... =\

Thank you for your response!

 

[deleted248403]

How do you think schools respond to SMP's while you're applying? I'm prepped to apply early and broadly, but doesn't the fact that the schools have to wait for grades (if they even considering them) really work against me since both of my GPA's are so low? It's not that I don't want to do an SMP, it's that I am skeptical as to the level of difference it makes if I want to get into medical school for 2015. Being below the screen is also a concern, even if I were to kill the SMP... =\

Thank you for your response!

You should take a glide year between your SMP and med school. i.e. SMP Fall 2013, apply to med school summer 2014 for starting summer 2015.
You want th eyear of grades under your belt

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

? I'm already in a post bacc program to raise my sGPA (ends May 2014), so I would only be able to get into an SMP for 2014-2015, which would be when I would ideally like to apply. Unless absolutely necessary I don't want to take a glide year (for entry 2016) since I would have to totally relocate with zero savings after spending all of my money to live in whatever expensive city the SMP is in (like DC...). If it seems as though the only way for me to get into an MD school is to apply AFTER the SMP rather than during it, then DO school might be the best option for me. Am I generally on point with my assumption as to the lack of consideration that would be paid to my application if I applied during SMP year?

 

[Adnap]

Your science GPA is the killer part here. Will have to wait to see what your MCAT is. If you score above a 30, then it might be okay to start a SMP in Fall 2014. I think you need to raise your sGPA as much as you can. You're going to get screened out of a lot of schools automatically without a sGPA above a 3.0. However, you can probably pull through with a sGPA slightly below that.

I think your best chance into a MD program is at one of the highest linkage SMPs (RFU, EVMS, UToledo). If you're cool with DO, I would just apply both MD and DO since you want to start ASAP. Your URM will help a lot as long as you do well in your SMP. Also, your last 25 credits will be heavily emphasized on your application. Do well so you have a strong upward trend.

Good luck.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Just did the math and I need a ~3.8 for the 20 credits I'm taking over the next year to break a 3.0 for my AMCAS sGPA. I wanted to take more than 10 credits this semester but couldn't get into more classes due to low registration priority for post baccs. I could take more credits in spring, but I think I'm going to err towards doing the minimum amount of credits possible so I can save money for an SMP. I'm going to apply to these programs in January, so they'll have 10 credits of postbacc and hopefully a good MCAT to go on.

My current SMP list is:
Temple ACMS
Tufts
Georgetown
NYMC Accelerated Track
University of Cincinnati

Touro NY
PCOM
LECOM

There's not really anything more I can do than what I'm doing, right? I was considering taking a year off to work as a medical scribe and save money/get more clinical hours before the SMP, but since GPA is my main concern I guess that's not an option.

This has surmounted to me thinking out loud. Thanks for humoring me, folks.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Just got my MCAT score back today- 32 (10/11/11), up from last summer's 24 (7/8/9). I know it's a decent score, but can I even count on this to get me into an SMP? Many of them say that they are designed for "low GPA. high MCAT." A 32 just doesn't seem "high" considering that it's just barely above the average matriculant score and my GPA is crap. I still have 3 more months of access to my TPR course, but I've used all their exams and practice problems (along with the AAMC stuff they provide). I even did four GS tests. If I risk the retake, I'm at a loss as to what resources to use.

 

[TonySoprano]

32 is not decent...its pretty great. Anyway, you should add Rosalind Franklin or EVMS's SMPs to your list because they are linked with their own medical schools. You are pretty competitive to get into Rosalind Franklin's BMS program. Plus there is no waiting between your masters year and when you start medical school. You just need to perform well in their courses and not come off as a dick in the interview. Credits from your masters transfers to the med school too. So if you applied to enter August 2014 then you could start med school in August 2015 like you wanted.

http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/Degreeprograms/BiomedicalSciences/Class.aspx

 

[Agtongue]

I'd remove Temple ACMS, their GPA range is ~3.6.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

I'd remove Temple ACMS, their GPA range is ~3.6.

Yeah, I'm aware of all the GPA ranges. I'm not in a particularly high stress situation right now so I have time to apply broadly to SMP's and visit. Definitely not holding my breath on ACMS, but it can't hurt. As far as Rosalind Franklin goes, I had my reservations about Chicago but then realized I've been living in Harlem the past 4.5 years. =P I will add it to my list!

What I'm torn about is my place relative to the people who complete well known SMP's and get into mid-tier medical school. For non-linkage SMP's I'm afraid that my GPA (which will be 3.28 cPA, 3.13 by application time) will still be too low for schools to consider my application. It's not that I care about tiers, it's just that I'm in a state with competitive schools. Paying IS tuition would be very nice, as well as being relatively close to my family. If Tufts/Georgetown would take me and a 3.8-4.0 there would be enough for me to have a little agency over where I end up, that's what I would like to do (even if it was for 2016). If it is absolutely impossible for me to get into an MD school through a non-linkage SMP because of my UG grades and average MCAT, then I don't really have a choice.

Am I crazy to be thinking like this? I know people in my situation, albeit a bit older, live years of their life for the sole purpose of becoming a doctor in spite of finances, relationships, family, and where they end up studying, but I want to do more than dig myself out of a hole. I lived in Norfolk for 5 years and HATED it. I don't know how much it has changed, but I remember the people being extremely unfriendly towards minorities. I have severe reservations about going to EVMS and BS'ing about my commitment to their community. Any non-trad or late starter that doesn't do Caribbean is also thinking about things besides just being a doctor, ammirite?

 

[Agtongue]

Cincinnati is a good option (it's where I'm at) for both "linkage" and ability to get you ii's elsewhere. Several of us received interviews at schools in NY. If you apply early, you should get into Cincinnati's SMP with your stats.

 

[NorthernMav]

The EVMS program is rapidly increasing their student body, and has become more of a cash cow. I believe they have accepted 60 or 65 students into their SMP program this year, increasing from 40 last year. Prior to last year, it was only 28, and I think 21 before that. I wouldn't be suprised if they begin losing their claimed 85% acceptance linkage.

If you are going to take a glide year, I would suggest attending places like Georgetown, BU, or Tufts. UCinci is an awesome program too.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

The EVMS program is rapidly increasing their student body, and has become more of a cash cow. I believe they have accepted 60 or 65 students into their SMP program this year, increasing from 40 last year. Prior to last year, it was only 28, and I think 21 before that. I wouldn't be suprised if they begin losing their claimed 85% acceptance linkage.

If you are going to take a glide year, I would suggest attending places like Georgetown, BU, or Tufts. UCinci is an awesome program too.

Thank you, that's helpful information.

While Georgetown is on my list, the class size is a bit too big. Because of my numbers, I also need more a shove than a push to get into an MD school and it seems like they have most success with borderline applicants.

Tufts is a bit smaller and the grading system is a little more forgiving. They also seem a little less enthusiastic about people applying during the program, which is right up my alley. I have a good shot at UCinci for undisclosed reasons, but need to make a visit to get better acquainted with the area.

What are the chances that me doing post bacc at Hofstra has any bearing on being accepted at North Shore-LIJ SOM? I'm technically in the formal post bacc program and have the pre-health sciences resources available to me, but I have my doubts that a new MD school would want to associated with it's sub-par parent institution (hence the name change).

Regardless, unless I pull some voodoo at the school I'm attending, I'll be taking a gap year. There's no reason for an MD school to take a risk on me without a full year of SMP grades at application time. I figure with an MS or MBS I'd be able to find a job in a lab or as a medical scribe while I apply.

 

[NorthernMav]

Gap year would be the most effective in you case, so I think you have the right idea. As for the Hofsta thing, I have no idea. My guess would be that it would make little difference, unless it had some strong connection/linkage I don't know about. Just take as many post-bacc courses, and get A's, as you can up until you leave for SMP. Get that nice upward trend in grades while increasing your GPA. Then kill SMP and apply early. Good luck!

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

I had a rough time with registration for fall, which only allowed me 3 classes:

2nd Semester Physics (Retake of a C-)
1st Semester Biology (Retake of a C)
Genetics

For spring here are my options:

2nd Semester Biology (Retake of a C-)
Human Nutrition
Foundations of Biochemistry
Bio-Organic Chemistry of Metabolism
Biostatistics
Human Physiology
Advanced Genetics

"Foundations of Biochemistry" is technically a pre-req for "Bio-Organic Chemistry of Metabolism"- does it really matter if I take the prereq instead of the big boy class? This concept of prereqs for everything is very foreign to me. I just need A's and it doesn't seem like, at my currently level, admins really care about call number differences. The retakes are becuase C-'s don't fly at most MD schools. To be precise, to get to ~3.28 cGPA and a 3.10 sGPA I need 15 credits of A's in the fall. That might be slightly higher because AMCAS rounds up in its calculations...

Thanks for humoring me guys.