How hard is it to get a cardiology fellowship as a DO?

[leagall]

thanks

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[DrWBD]

thanks

Difficult, but not impossible. I've worked with osteopathic cardiologists, both ACGME and AOA trained. Count on having to work VERY hard to obtain an ACGME cardiology position as a DO. It is the most competitive fellowship in Medicine, meaning that a lot of MDs also want those positions.

The NRMP site has fellowship match Data posted, if you are curious:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2010.pdf

Based on the data it looks as though 63% of the positions for cardiology were filled by American MDs, with the rest going to, presumably, IMGs and DOs.

As far as AOA cardiology fellowships, I don't know how competitive they are but imagine they must be at least as much, if not more, due to the relatively smaller number of them.

 

[DocEspana]

Difficult, but not impossible. I've worked with osteopathic cardiologists, both ACGME and AOA trained. Count on having to work VERY hard to obtain an ACGME cardiology position as a DO. It is the most competitive fellowship in Medicine, meaning that a lot of MDs also want those positions.

The NRMP site has fellowship match Data posted, if you are curious:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2010.pdf

Based on the data it looks as though 63% of the positions for cardiology were filled by American MDs, with the rest going to, presumably, IMGs and DOs.

As far as AOA cardiology fellowships, I don't know how competitive they are but imagine they must be at least as much, if not more, due to the relatively smaller number of them.

I normally contradict a little bit with wanna_be_do, but in this case i'm going to *mostly* agree with him. He is a jaded veteran of the real medical scene (I hope you dont take offense to me, and my personal bias, saying your jaded) and I am a totally dewey eyed optimist who takes any statistic and sees it as positively as possible.

despite this I most agree with him. Cardiology is a hard field. You dont need to be the best in your class to get it. It's not plastics. But it remains a hard field to get into. You need to be very astute in cardiology and very skilled, regardless of major. I don't think being a DO inhibits you in any way from being a cardiologist, but its simply a hard field to break into, you need to be qualified and interested from the get go. It's not PMnR (a well known ACGME field that selectively preferences towards DOs) nor is it specialty surgery (an ACGME field that is hard for DOs to break into), it's in the middle. But you need to be very very very good at the field to get into it no matter what your degree is.

 

[nlax30]

It is competitive. If you're looking at allopathic cards then it's going to more a factor of where and what you did for residency more so than just whether you're a DO or not. If that's the goal then you better plan getting a decent academic IM spot and working your butt off there. I don't think you'd be competitive at all for allopathic cards coming from a DO community program.

That said, there are also some DO cards spots. And even then you're sill competition against DO's who may be coming from strong allopathic IM programs.

 

[FutureDO08]

Bumping an old thread. I did my Shadowing with an interventional cardiologist that was a DO but he was far removed from the application days. I really liked it and enjoyed the Cath lab and scans he'd show me and I've really thought about this field a lot recently. I am just an incoming OMS1 so I know to have an open mind but I am wondering what anyone thinks about the chances of DO and fellowship in cards now that the merger is upon us. I'm class of 2020 so no DO residencies when I'm done but I want to know what people think about academic IM to springboard into cards. Do you think it'll help or be harder? If this is truly something I want to stick with, would anyone have suggestions on how to establish research or go about it to gear towards that specialty? The cardiologist I shadowed just told me Med school was a breeze (lol) and I should do something simple like general data mining if I wanted research but I'd also like to hear from the masses.

I searched in the Med students osteo section but all posts are from years and years ago.

Bump!


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[Suntaltfel]

I'm a 4th year applying to a surgical field next year and trust me, nobody really knows how the merger will affect DOs when it comes to both residency and fellowship applications. I honestly believe that DOs in the future will have to take the USMLE to be considered for anything else outside the primary care field realm. No matter what the "rules" say, some programs will not accept DOs for residency/fellowship, esp when it comes to competitive specialties. So my advice to you is to study hard and do well on USMLE and that will open a lot of doors for you! Go in with an open mind and enjoy rotations! You'd be surprised with what you fall in love with! If you can get your name on a paper or anything of that nature, that will help boost up your application! Good luck!

 

[FutureDO08]

I'm a 4th year applying to a surgical field next year and trust me, nobody really knows how the merger will affect DOs when it comes to both residency and fellowship applications. I honestly believe that DOs in the future will have to take the USMLE to be considered for anything else outside the primary care field realm. No matter what the "rules" say, some programs will not accept DOs for residency/fellowship, esp when it comes to competitive specialties. So my advice to you is to study hard and do well on USMLE and that will open a lot of doors for you! Go in with an open mind and enjoy rotations! You'd be surprised with what you fall in love with! If you can get your name on a paper or anything of that nature, that will help boost up your application! Good luck!

Thank you, and best of luck to you!


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[thisishowyouDOit]

My cardiologist is a DO! He's awesome.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I'm a 4th year applying to a surgical field next year and trust me, nobody really knows how the merger will affect DOs when it comes to both residency and fellowship applications. I honestly believe that DOs in the future will have to take the USMLE to be considered for anything else outside the primary care field realm. No matter what the "rules" say, some programs will not accept DOs for residency/fellowship, esp when it comes to competitive specialties. So my advice to you is to study hard and do well on USMLE and that will open a lot of doors for you! Go in with an open mind and enjoy rotations! You'd be surprised with what you fall in love with! If you can get your name on a paper or anything of that nature, that will help boost up your application! Good luck!

Statements like "nobody knows" are very concerning to me as an applicant. Like what range of possibilities do most people expect?



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[JoeUSA]

I'm a 4th year applying to a surgical field next year and trust me, nobody really knows how the merger will affect DOs when it comes to both residency and fellowship applications. I honestly believe that DOs in the future will have to take the USMLE to be considered for anything else outside the primary care field realm. No matter what the "rules" say, some programs will not accept DOs for residency/fellowship, esp when it comes to competitive specialties. So my advice to you is to study hard and do well on USMLE and that will open a lot of doors for you! Go in with an open mind and enjoy rotations! You'd be surprised with what you fall in love with! If you can get your name on a paper or anything of that nature, that will help boost up your application! Good luck!

Taking the USMLE is essential. It allows students (MD & DO) to be compared. I have had PDs tell me that they do not know how to evaluate applicants taking other exams such as COMLEX. If they cannot evaluate the applicant they do not consider them for the position.

 

[Mr Roboto]

Taking the USMLE is essential. It allows students (MD & DO) to be compared. I have had PDs tell me that they do not know how to evaluate applicants taking other exams such as COMLEX. If they cannot evaluate the applicant they do not consider them for the position.

I don't understand why they find that difficult. Just willful ignorance? Like I don't know how to evaluate candidates with the new MCAT, but it would probably take less than ten minutes of googling to learn.

 

[hallowmann]

Statements like "nobody knows" are very concerning to me as an applicant. Like what range of possibilities do most people expect?

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I mean the range is anywhere from an increase of DOs not placing and less DOs in surgical specialties to virtually no real difference than it is now to things improving all around for DOs when it comes to residency placement. It's somewhere in that spectrum.

Not merging would guarantee 3 things:

1) AOA trained DOs wouldn't have access to advanced ACGME positions in residency/fellowship,

2) subpar AOA programs like the AOA Derm programs that make you pay to train there would still exist with little regulation, (the merger will close those down) and

3) DOs, the AOA, and AACOM would have 0 input in the ACGME despite more than half of DOs being trained in ACGME programs due to the lack of sufficient AOA residencies. As of now because of the merger, they hold 28% of voting seats on the ACGME.

The reason everyone is telling you they don't know is because they can't tell the future. There are far too many variables, the least of which is a seemingly ever expanding number of US MD and DO students (like almost 10,000 more per year by 2020 compared to 2006).

Bottom line, work hard, be a strong applicant, and don't worry about the things outside of your control.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I mean the range is anywhere from an increase of DOs not placing and less DOs in surgical specialties to virtually no real difference than it is now to things improving all around for DOs when it comes to residency placement. It's somewhere in that spectrum.

Not merging would guarantee 3 things:

1) AOA trained DOs wouldn't have access to advanced ACGME positions in residency/fellowship,

2) subpar AOA programs like the AOA Derm programs that make you pay to train there would still exist with little regulation, (the merger will close those down) and

3) DOs, the AOA, and AACOM would have 0 input in the ACGME despite more than half of DOs being trained in ACGME programs due to the lack of sufficient AOA residencies. As of now because of the merger, they hold 28% of voting seats on the ACGME.

The reason everyone is telling you they don't know is because they can't tell the future. There are far too many variables, the least of which is a seemingly ever expanding number of US MD and DO students (like almost 10,000 more per year by 2020 compared to 2006).

Bottom line, work hard, be a strong applicant, and don't worry about the things outside of your control.

You mean 10,000 in total since 2006? Right, I see that overall the merger is a must. Hopefully that residency position/AMG gap stays high for a while also.

 

[Suntaltfel]

Statements like "nobody knows" are very concerning to me as an applicant. Like what range of possibilities do most people expect?



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Your main focus should be on becoming a strong candidate for residency. With the merger, if you're a strong candidate and u're a DO you're going to do well but I think USMLE will most likely be a requirement later on as oppose to now. The good thing about the merger is that every program will have the same requirement/standards. The not so good thing about the merger is that MDs will have access to what used to be osteopathic residencies which means less spots for DOs for more competitive specialities.

 

[hallowmann]

You mean 10,000 in total since 2006? Right, I see that overall the merger is a must. Hopefully that residency position/AMG gap stays high for a while also.

Yeah if you look at the number of US MDs and DOs that graduated and sought GME in 2006 (i.e. class of 2006) compared to the number that matriculate this year (class of 2020), the increase is like 10,000.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Yeah if you look at the number of US MDs and DOs that graduated and sought GME in 2006 (i.e. class of 2006) compared to the number that matriculate this year (class of 2020), the increase is like 10,000.

What would you estimate residency growth to be during that time?

 

[235009]

I don't understand why they find that difficult. Just willful ignorance? Like I don't know how to evaluate candidates with the new MCAT, but it would probably take less than ten minutes of googling to learn.

It's not that they find it intellectually challenging or that they are being willfully ignorant. There is simply no reliable comparison between the COMLEX and USMLE. The COMLEX is also universally regarded as inconsistent and unreliable as a standardized test. Your example of the new and old MCAT is a bad one because it's the same test with a different scoring system and an exact comparison between the new and old scores.

 

[basikfx]

Funny thing is that there are DOs who submit questions for USMLE.

They should merge the test just as they merged the residencies..

 

[IslandStyle808]

It's not that they find it intellectually challenging or that they are being willfully ignorant. There is simply no reliable comparison between the COMLEX and USMLE. The COMLEX is also universally regarded as inconsistent and unreliable as a standardized test. Your example of the new and old MCAT is a bad one because it's the same test with a different scoring system and an exact comparison between the new and old scores.

The comparison between the new and old MCAT are not reliable either, because you have extra sections such as biochemistry, psychology, sociology, etc. Adcoms are comparing percentages because that is the only thing they can depend on. The only reason why the old and new test are somewhat comparable is because the body administering it is the same, unlike the USLME and COMLEX.

 

[Mr Roboto]

It's not that they find it intellectually challenging or that they are being willfully ignorant. There is simply no reliable comparison between the COMLEX and USMLE. The COMLEX is also universally regarded as inconsistent and unreliable as a standardized test. Your example of the new and old MCAT is a bad one because it's the same test with a different scoring system and an exact comparison between the new and old scores.

We seem to have different definitions of "universally."

Also, as noted by IslandStyle, the two MCATs aren't the same test. It's got a few similar sections, but covers much more material. I wouldn't expect you to know that, though, since you didn't have to take it.

 

[hallowmann]

What would you estimate residency growth to be during that time?

Barring no change in rate of growth it'll be at least 1000/yr, so something like 4000 more than we have now with both AOA and ACGME. Remember though, that GME has already expanded by around that much since 2006, so if we're being fair it'll be around 8000 total increase of PGY1 GME spots with an AMG increase of 10000.

 

[AlteredScale]

Funny thing is that there are DOs who submit questions for USMLE.

They should merge the test just as they merged the residencies..

Agree. But the AOA and NBOME won't let it happen. They think their style of test writing matches the DO profession which sadly is an insult since the words used to describe the test by those who have taken it already are inconsistent, error-ridden, and a crapshoot.


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[235009]

We seem to have different definitions of "universally."

Also, as noted by IslandStyle, the two MCATs aren't the same test. It's got a few similar sections, but covers much more material. I wouldn't expect you to know that, though, since you didn't have to take it.

Yes, despite the fact that I took it a decade ago I am aware that the content of the MCAT is different now however my point is that there is a direct correlation between new and old scores where X = Y. There are lots of conversion tables out there. This is because the test result gives you a percentile. That's not the case with Step 1 or Level 1. So while the individual may have had to learn different material what's important to the schools is that you scored in the Zth percentile in this standardized test that every person applying to med school has to take.

Keeping the above in mind now let's talk about the COMLEX vs USMLE comparison. The COMLEX is a test that is only administered to a select group of individuals. So sure your COMLEX score puts you in context to other DOs but you can't make any sort of inference to how your score compares to a USMLE score because those USMLE scores are placed in the context (mean and standard deviation) of all US and Canadian MD test takers. So there is no way to compare COMLEX to USMLE scores....you're essentially comparing apples to oranges because the populations of test takers among whom the mean/std is calculated are completely different.

I hope that clarifies things.

 

[jw3600]

I'm a 4th year applying to a surgical field next year and trust me, nobody really knows how the merger will affect DOs when it comes to both residency and fellowship applications. I honestly believe that DOs in the future will have to take the USMLE to be considered for anything else outside the primary care field realm. No matter what the "rules" say, some programs will not accept DOs for residency/fellowship, esp when it comes to competitive specialties. So my advice to you is to study hard and do well on USMLE and that will open a lot of doors for you! Go in with an open mind and enjoy rotations! You'd be surprised with what you fall in love with! If you can get your name on a paper or anything of that nature, that will help boost up your application! Good luck!

People not understanding this baffles me. It's like anti-vaxxers. They just prefer their own "truths" rather than objectively evaluating the evidence.

This post was spot on.

 

[jw3600]

We seem to have different definitions of "universally."

Also, as noted by IslandStyle, the two MCATs aren't the same test. It's got a few similar sections, but covers much more material. I wouldn't expect you to know that, though, since you didn't have to take it.

The COMLEX is complete and utter ****ing garbage. It tests on bogus ****, made up magic tomfoolery, and is extremely unreliable (from a statistical standpoint). Thanks for the analysis and input, "Medical Student (Accepted)".

Caveat: <--slayed the COMLEX.

 

[FutureDO08]

People not understanding this baffles me. It's like anti-vaxxers. They just prefer their own "truths" rather than objectively evaluating the evidence.

This post was spot on.

That was some of my reasoning in bumping this old thread. I wanted to see what people with experience would say versus a sugar coating. Obviously though, I'm just starting and may go a completely different direction but I will go one step at a time. I just want to keep one eye on the future


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[the argus]

Barring no change in rate of growth it'll be at least 1000/yr, so something like 4000 more than we have now with both AOA and ACGME. Remember though, that GME has already expanded by around that much since 2006, so if we're being fair it'll be around 8000 total increase of PGY1 GME spots with an AMG increase of 10000.

You're moving a little too fast. Assuming the same rate of residency position growth, best estimates put the +2,000 AMG increase vs PGY1 increase to happen around 2024, not 2020. It would be ~4,500 more PGY1 positions than AMGs in 2024, as opposed to 6,500-7,000 currently.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1511707?rss=searchAndBrowse&#t=article

 

[Mr Roboto]

The COMLEX is complete and utter ****ing garbage. It tests on bogus ****, made up magic tomfoolery, and is extremely unreliable (from a statistical standpoint). Thanks for the analysis and input, "Medical Student (Accepted)".

Caveat: <--slayed the COMLEX.

Woah, you ball so hard! In one month it'll just say med student. Then I guess it's "oh you're not a resident stfu"?

Make a better argument than Cartmann if you expect anyone to listen to you.

 

[Mr Roboto]

Yes, despite the fact that I took it a decade ago I am aware that the content of the MCAT is different now however my point is that there is a direct correlation between new and old scores where X = Y. There are lots of conversion tables out there. This is because the test result gives you a percentile. That's not the case with Step 1 or Level 1. So while the individual may have had to learn different material what's important to the schools is that you scored in the Zth percentile in this standardized test that every person applying to med school has to take.

Keeping the above in mind now let's talk about the COMLEX vs USMLE comparison. The COMLEX is a test that is only administered to a select group of individuals. So sure your COMLEX score puts you in context to other DOs but you can't make any sort of inference to how your score compares to a USMLE score because those USMLE scores are placed in the context (mean and standard deviation) of all US and Canadian MD test takers. So there is no way to compare COMLEX to USMLE scores....you're essentially comparing apples to oranges because the populations of test takers among whom the mean/std is calculated are completely different.

I hope that clarifies things.

Actually yeah that was super helpful. Thank you for the explanation.

Couldn't you develop a comparison for the tests using the people who took both?

 

[hallowmann]

You're moving a little too fast. Assuming the same rate of residency position growth, best estimates put the +2,000 AMG increase vs PGY1 increase to happen around 2024, not 2020. It would be ~4,500 more PGY1 positions than AMGs in 2024, as opposed to 6,500-7,000 currently.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1511707?rss=searchAndBrowse&#t=article

You're talking about from now (or I guess a few years ago). I was talking about between 2006 and 2020.

Obviously the fact that it will reduce by 2000 between 2006 and 2020 as well as 2000 between 2014 and 2024 is more an indication that the rate of change is greater now than it was in the past. This is most likely because of an increase in the rates of med school opening/expansion. Only time will tell, and we can only accurately estimate 4 years ahead because all other estimates would assume a constant rate of GME expansion and AMG expansion, which isn't necessarily guaranteed.

Actually yeah that was super helpful. Thank you for the explanation.

Couldn't you develop a comparison for the tests using the people who took both?

One of the bigger reasons this is difficult is because the COMLEX scoring is frequently revised to keep the average at 500-520. An example of this is that the conversion calculator made in 2010 is wildly inaccurate by current standards and significantly underestimates the USMLE equivalent. So basically they'd have to update the conversion calculator annually and PDs would have to pay attention, which quite frankly is probably not worth it for them.

The truth is that they are different tests, and its simply easier to just say, take the USMLE so we can compare you to the >80% of other apps we get.

 

[jw3600]

Woah, you ball so hard! In one month it'll just say med student. Then I guess it's "oh you're not a resident stfu"?

Make a better argument than Cartmann if you expect anyone to listen to you.

Ball so hard...what the hell are you on about? In one month I'll still think your opinions of COMLEX are inaccurate and unfounded. Because you don't know anything about it. It's hilarious that you accuse PDs of willful ignorance when you're begging to get into their residencies and hoping your performance on a poorly made test should stand alone as the reason why.

 

[AlteredScale]

Please keep it civil peeps.


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[Mr Roboto]

Ball so hard...what the hell are you on about? In one month I'll still think your opinions of COMLEX are inaccurate and unfounded. Because you don't know anything about it. It's hilarious that you accuse PDs of willful ignorance when you're begging to get into their residencies and hoping your performance on a poorly made test should stand alone as the reason why.

Good thing I don't give a flying f what you think

Haven't begged anyone to get into their residencies, dunno what you're on about mate.

 

[Mr Roboto]

The truth is that they are different tests, and its simply easier to just say, take the USMLE so we can compare you to the >80% of other apps we get.

Oh yeah. I'm 100% taking the USMLE in 2 years. Thanks for the education, much appreciated.

 

[the argus]

You're talking about from now (or I guess a few years ago). I was talking about between 2006 and 2020.

Obviously the fact that it will reduce by 2000 between 2006 and 2020 as well as 2000 between 2014 and 2024 is more an indication that the rate of change is greater now than it was in the past. This is most likely because of an increase in the rates of med school opening/expansion. Only time will tell, and we can only accurately estimate 4 years ahead because all other estimates would assume a constant rate of GME expansion and AMG expansion, which isn't necessarily guaranteed.

It isn't going to reduce by 2,000 between 2006 and 2020. Between 2006 and 2015 it has not reduced at all. The number of increased ACGME PGY1 positions between 2006 and 2015 was 3,166, the increased number of AMGs getting positions during that time was 3,208. Basically a wash. The correct statement is that it will reduce by 2,000 total between 2006 and 2024, with all of that occurring between 2015 and 2024. And when adding all the osteopathic positions into the mix, for which there have historically been more positions than people to fill them, that will probably even further slow things down.

http://www.acgme.org/About-Us/Publi...Graduate-Medical-Education-Data-Resource-Book
page 6 in the most current edition

 

[hallowmann]

It isn't going to reduce by 2,000 between 2006 and 2020. Between 2006 and 2015 it has not reduced at all. The number of increased ACGME PGY1 positions between 2006 and 2015 was 3,166, the increased number of AMGs getting positions during that time was 3,208. Basically a wash. The correct statement is that it will reduce by 2,000 total between 2006 and 2024, with all of that occurring between 2015 and 2024. And when adding all the osteopathic positions into the mix, for which there have historically been more positions than people to fill them, that will probably even further slow things down.

http://www.acgme.org/About-Us/Publi...Graduate-Medical-Education-Data-Resource-Book
page 6 in the most current edition

When I get more time, I'll look through all the numbers, but right off the bat I can tell you that US MGs have increased more than 3208. In 2006, 16,141 US MDs graduated, and in 2015 there were 18,705 graduates. That's an increase of 2564 already, and it'll likely be higher in 2016. As for DO graduates, they went from 2814 in 2006 to 5323 in 2015 (its 5420 in 2016). That's 2509 for DOs. So the increase is at least around 5073 for american medical graduates between 2006 and 2015, NOT 3208.

Also, looking at AOA PGY1 positions, they only increased by ~800 between 2006 and 2015, so assuming your numbers are right for ACGME PGY1 increase (3166), there's been a PGY1 increase of only about 4000 (real number being 3957), compared to a graduate increase of more than 5000 (real number being 5073).

 

[the argus]

When I get more time, I'll look through all the numbers, but right off the bat I can tell you that US MGs have increased more than 3208. In 2006, 16,141 US MDs graduated, and in 2015 there were 18,705 graduates. That's an increase of 2564 already, and it'll likely be higher in 2016. As for DO graduates, they went from 2814 in 2006 to 5323 in 2015 (its 5420 in 2016). That's 2509 for DOs. So the increase is at least around 5073 for american medical graduates between 2006 and 2015, NOT 3208.

Also, looking at AOA PGY1 positions, they only increased by ~800 between 2006 and 2015, so assuming your numbers are right for ACGME PGY1 increase (3166), there's been a PGY1 increase of only about 4000 (real number being 3957), compared to a graduate increase of more than 5000 (real number being 5073).

The 3,200 increase I'm talking about is only in reference to ACGME positions. The increased number of USMD and DO grads going into ACGME positions has remained even with the number of increased ACGME positions over the past 10 years. The remaining excess increased DO grads have gone into AOA residency positions, which there continues to be more of than people to fill them.

The point I was trying to make was that there is not going to be any major shift in the dynamics of placement rates among applicant types in 2020. When I first read your posts it seemed that that's what you were implying, but going back and rereading it doesn't seem that's necessarily the case. I apologize if I was reading too much into your posts.

 

[hallowmann]

The 3,200 increase I'm talking about is only in reference to ACGME positions. The increased number of USMD and DO grads going into ACGME positions has remained even with the number of increased ACGME positions over the past 10 years. The remaining excess increased DO grads have gone into AOA residency positions, which there continues to be more of than people to fill them.

The point I was trying to make was that there is not going to be any major shift in the dynamics of placement rates among applicant types in 2020. When I first read your posts it seemed that that's what you were implying, but going back and rereading it doesn't seem that's necessarily the case. I apologize if I was reading too much into your posts.

Yeah, placement rates become less clear and deal with more variables, so it's harder to make confident statements one way or the other, especially with potential effects of the merger. And you're right in that at least half of the DO expansion has been accommodated by the AOA GME expansion and excess GME positions that previously went unfilled (l~700 some excess AOA PGY1 positions remained unfilled in the past while now its closer to 150-200, despite a ~35% increase in AOA GME).

 

[Instatewaiter]

I don't understand why they find that difficult. Just willful ignorance? Like I don't know how to evaluate candidates with the new MCAT, but it would probably take less than ten minutes of googling to learn.

For a couple of reasons. First, most of their applicants don't take the COMLEX. Second, it is not the same cohort taking the COMLEX so it is hard to compare. Third, if they have enough US MD applicants, it's not worth their time to learn.

 

[nlax30]

For a couple of reasons. First, most of their applicants don't take the COMLEX. Second, it is not the same cohort taking the COMLEX so it is hard to compare. Third, if they have enough US MD applicants, it's not worth their time to learn.

I tend to agree. They already have a large applicant pool and in academics have enough admin type work where it just isn't in their best interest to create extra work by incorporating some other score into their applicant evaluation process....

It's easy to stressed out and caught up in a bunch of details, but in general, now is the time to focus on doing well in med school and I would just recommend taking the USMLE. I took USMLE Step 1 but then ended up going DO for IM and ultimately DO Cards.

Ultimately the merger is another wild card but like has already been said, I don't think we know how that will play a role in all of this.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Now this has been responded to, I want to emphasize what I stated below. You cannot properly compare percentiles of the old and new MCAT. Below is an article that has mentioned this in detail.

The comparison between the new and old MCAT are not reliable either, because you have extra sections such as biochemistry, psychology, sociology, etc. Adcoms are comparing percentages because that is the only thing they can depend on. The only reason why the old and new test are somewhat comparable is because the body administering it is the same, unlike the USLME and COMLEX.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2016/07/top-3-myths-mcat-scores-busted/

Myth #2: Your current MCAT scores can be converted to the old MCAT exam score scale.
We know it is tempting to try to convert your MCAT scores to the more familiar score scale of the old MCAT exam. But it is important to understand the new MCAT exam is a very different test than the old exam. Testing different concepts and skills, a new score scale was developed so new exam scores would carry a different meaning.

Before the new MCAT exam launched in April 2015, the old exam had been in place since 1991! Over 24 years, there has been enormous change in medical research and scientific knowledge. And to keep pace with these changes, medical education has also advanced, redefining what makes a good doctor. So the new MCAT exam needed to catch up! The new exam takes this all into account, as well as the skills that future physicians will need to practice in a rapidly changing health care environment.


This was stated by the AAMC.

 

[235009]

Myth #2: Your current MCAT scores can be converted to the old MCAT exam score scale.
We know it is tempting to try to convert your MCAT scores to the more familiar score scale of the old MCAT exam. But it is important to understand the new MCAT exam is a very different test than the old exam. Testing different concepts and skills, a new score scale was developed so new exam scores would carry a different meaning.

Before the new MCAT exam launched in April 2015, the old exam had been in place since 1991! Over 24 years, there has been enormous change in medical research and scientific knowledge. And to keep pace with these changes, medical education has also advanced, redefining what makes a good doctor. So the new MCAT exam needed to catch up! The new exam takes this all into account, as well as the skills that future physicians will need to practice in a rapidly changing health care environment.


This was stated by the AAMC.

It's disingenuous to call this a myth because you disagree with it.

There are percentiles provided for both the old and new MCAT which are administered to the same population of students. Those percentiles are directly comparable. It doesn't matter at all to those using the scores that you had to study slightly different information. Standardized tests change all the time. The SAT changed recently, step 3 changed less than two years ago. It's still the same test but with tweaked material.



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[IslandStyle808]

It's disingenuous to call this a myth because you disagree with it.

There are percentiles provided for both the old and new MCAT which are administered to the same population of students. Those percentiles are directly comparable. It doesn't matter at all to those using the scores that you had to study slightly different information. Standardized tests change all the time. The SAT changed recently, step 3 changed less than two years ago. It's still the same test but with tweaked material.



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I didn't call it a myth the AAMC did in the article.

You cannot compare the two. The old exam is based on a scale of students that took it through the years (spanning till at least mid 2000s, maybe more). The new MCAT scale is only based on this more recent cohort of students. These cohorts could have changes through the years due to how competitive entering medical school has become (self selection). Plus you don't know how the old cohort would fare against the new section on the MCAT and the integration of biochemistry.

If this were a comparison of paper and pencil exam to the 2014 exam, then yes the results are comparable. However, this exam is different and thus a new scale had been made.

 

[nlax30]

Don't worry about the MCAT.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm glad the MCAT is behind me, just don't like when incorrect comparisons are made.