How hard is it to get into a california residency program if you attend an OOS MD?

[Goldslugs]

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I've been accepted into 2 OOS midwestern MDs that are both good schools, but I just wanted to discuss and look into this more. How hard would it be to come back to california if I go to an OOS MD, particularly for a speciality like anesthesiology?

Getting into a CA MD (hellishly competitive) or DO is out of the question for me, and I wouldn't turn down a MD for a DO (already turned down 2 DO acceptances that were both OOS).

 

[MatthewDamon]

I'm no expert but I think the return on investment is a lot higher for residencies than it is for medical school. That is, if you do well in medical school/step 1/do some research/get good LORs, you should be in good shape to return back to CA for a residency of your choice, barring the super competitive ones.

 

[justadream]

Semi-related question:

Let's assume person X wants to practice in California for his/her entire career in a private practice setting. Does going to residency in California really matter that much in this scenario?

I understand that for academia positions, it would matter (esp since residency ==> new faculty at your school would be possible). But do group practices really care that you did your residency at say, UCSF, rather than Penn? (assume here that the residency programs are equally "prestigious").

 

[Psai]

Going to somewhere like loma linda or cedars sinai should be feasible

 

[Goldslugs]

Going to somewhere like loma linda or cedars sinai should be feasible

Cool good to know. I just hope the loma linda residency programs don't require me to have a certain religious affiliation or require me to write on my relationship with god like the med school. That was the major reason I never applied to that program, but if that's what I gotta do to stay in CA, I'd have no problem writing on that stuff.

 

[boshtrich]

I'm no expert but I think the return on investment is a lot higher for residencies than it is for medical school. That is, if you do well in medical school/step 1/do some research/get good LORs, you should be in good shape to return back to CA for a residency of your choice, barring the super competitive ones.

Even the competitive programs in anesthesia such as UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, and UCSD have several residents from Midwest medical schools. Obviously they were all highly competitive applicants, but going to a school in the Midwest would not eliminate you from consideration for any California program. You can always do externships at California programs M4 year to help your chances and potentially get a letter from a PD or someone well known in California.

 

[Goldslugs]

Even the competitive programs in anesthesia such as UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, and UCSD have several residents from Midwest medical schools. Obviously they were all highly competitive applicants, but going to a school in the Midwest would not eliminate you from consideration for any California program. You can always do externships at California programs M4 year to help your chances and potentially get a letter from a PD or someone well known in California.

Awesome to know. I have a question, does going to a mid-tier Midwest MD look better than going to a california DO for more competitive residencies? I really considered the DO route and had several DO acceptances, but honestly from I understand aside from really wanting to be a MD, pursuing a MD education would give me more time for research and to study for boards, and also from what I understand going to a MD school often looks better to residencies (there is a very unfortunate DO bias for some residencies). Even without the added time for research and to study for boards, how would going to a midwest MD compare to a CA DO in terms of getting an anes or any avg competitive speciality residency?

 

[boshtrich]

I'm not as familiar with how DO friendly the California programs are or if being at a DO school in California would help. I know UCLA only had like one or two DO residents but I'm not sure what other programs are like. My advice is to look at programs you're interested and see where the current residents are from (most programs have a page with current residents online). If there's only one or two DOs in each class, it's probably more difficult to match there as a DO.

 

[getdown]

Semi-related question:

Let's assume person X wants to practice in California for his/her entire career in a private practice setting. Does going to residency in California really matter that much in this scenario?

I understand that for academia positions, it would matter (esp since residency ==> new faculty at your school would be possible). But do group practices really care that you did your residency at say, UCSF, rather than Penn? (assume here that the residency programs are equally "prestigious").

Chances of find a private practice job after residency is usually higher in the area that you did your residency. This is because you get jobs by word of mouth. Your attendings from that program have connections with the private practice peers ... they might even have done residency together so they'll be the first to know if a job is opening up before that job is even listed online. That being said, it's not impossible to get jobs outside your immediate area but when dealing with someone who doesn't know you personally or have someone that can vouch for you the only thing they look at are your credentials. That's why it's easier to find a job AFTER several years of practice instead of straight out of residency.

Awesome to know. I have a question, does going to a mid-tier Midwest MD look better than going to a california DO for more competitive residencies? I really considered the DO route and had several DO acceptances, but honestly from I understand aside from really wanting to be a MD, pursuing a MD education would give me more time for research and to study for boards, and also from what I understand going to a MD school often looks better to residencies (there is a very unfortunate DO bias for some residencies). Even without the added time for research and to study for boards, how would going to a midwest MD compare to a CA DO in terms of getting an anes or any avg competitive speciality residency?

DOs usually have their own residencies. That being said, there is very few crossovers of DO into MD residencies at least in California. Think about it. Everyone wants to come to california, so why would a program fill it with DOs or Carib/FMG grads if they have the pick of the litter from MD schools? Now I'm not saying that somehow DOs are less qualified than MDs, it's just that it looks bad when you have DOs in your program. People will think "why cant they fill their positions with MDs?" Anyway, it's not impossible. I've seen many DOs in different fields of MD residencies. However, I've heard of an upcoming change in terms of the AAMC saying they will no longer accept DO applicants in the future. I don't think this has been implemented yet but it's been in the rumor mill so there may be a possibility that if you do go DO you may not be able to match into an MD residency in the future. But again, DOs have their own residencies and they match into fellowships too so it's not impossible though I'd probably play it safe and just take the MD.

 

[Goldslugs]

Chances of find a private practice job after residency is usually higher in the area that you did your residency. This is because you get jobs by word of mouth. Your attendings from that program have connections with the private practice peers ... they might even have done residency together so they'll be the first to know if a job is opening up before that job is even listed online. That being said, it's not impossible to get jobs outside your immediate area but when dealing with someone who doesn't know you personally or have someone that can vouch for you the only thing they look at are your credentials. That's why it's easier to find a job AFTER several years of practice instead of straight out of residency.



DOs usually have their own residencies. That being said, there is very few crossovers of DO into MD residencies at least in California. Think about it. Everyone wants to come to california, so why would a program fill it with DOs or Carib/FMG grads if they have the pick of the litter from MD schools? Now I'm not saying that somehow DOs are less qualified than MDs, it's just that it looks bad when you have DOs in your program. People will think "why cant they fill their positions with MDs?" Anyway, it's not impossible. I've seen many DOs in different fields of MD residencies. However, I've heard of an upcoming change in terms of the AAMC saying they will no longer accept DO applicants in the future. I don't think this has been implemented yet but it's been in the rumor mill so there may be a possibility that if you do go DO you may not be able to match into an MD residency in the future. But again, DOs have their own residencies and they match into fellowships too so it's not impossible though I'd probably play it safe and just take the MD.

Good that's what I did. I really didn't want to do OMT either, so it all works out.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Chances of find a private practice job after residency is usually higher in the area that you did your residency. This is because you get jobs by word of mouth. Your attendings from that program have connections with the private practice peers ... they might even have done residency together so they'll be the first to know if a job is opening up before that job is even listed online. That being said, it's not impossible to get jobs outside your immediate area but when dealing with someone who doesn't know you personally or have someone that can vouch for you the only thing they look at are your credentials. That's why it's easier to find a job AFTER several years of practice instead of straight out of residency.



DOs usually have their own residencies. That being said, there is very few crossovers of DO into MD residencies at least in California. Think about it. Everyone wants to come to california, so why would a program fill it with DOs or Carib/FMG grads if they have the pick of the litter from MD schools? Now I'm not saying that somehow DOs are less qualified than MDs, it's just that it looks bad when you have DOs in your program. People will think "why cant they fill their positions with MDs?" Anyway, it's not impossible. I've seen many DOs in different fields of MD residencies. However, I've heard of an upcoming change in terms of the AAMC saying they will no longer accept DO applicants in the future. I don't think this has been implemented yet but it's been in the rumor mill so there may be a possibility that if you do go DO you may not be able to match into an MD residency in the future. But again, DOs have their own residencies and they match into fellowships too so it's not impossible though I'd probably play it safe and just take the MD.

Eh, I am not sure where you got your information about DOs not being able to match into MD residencies. By MD residencies I am guessing you mean ACGME residency positions. The AAMC found common ground with the AOA and their residency positions - that being said, yes, at one point the AAMC had said they will no longer let DOs into their residency programs, but basically allowed for an agreement that would allow the DOs to keep matching into ACGME residency positions so long as the AOA residencies worked towards being ACGME qualified by the end of 2020. This has somewhat hurt the DO scene in part by the closing of many AOA residency slots due to the incapability to meeting the ACGME qualifications, but it also has opened up the residency realm to allow for DOs to earn a better education through the required ACGME residency sites. All in all the DOs will most likely suffer, but then again everyone agains a little when all is said and done.

 

[Med Ed]

I've been accepted into 2 OOS midwestern MDs that are both good schools, but I just wanted to discuss and look into this more. How hard would it be to come back to california if I go to an OOS MD, particularly for a speciality like anesthesiology?

Getting into a CA MD (hellishly competitive) or DO is out of the question for me, and I wouldn't turn down a MD for a DO (already turned down 2 DO acceptances that were both OOS).

Why not look at the current composition of California anesthesiology programs? I just perused UCSD's, which by my count has 21 CA grads, 33 OOS grads, and 1 international grad (Australia). The OOS schools run the gamut from Hopkins to ETSU. Lesson: a program in a competitive field, in a solid academic medical center, in a highly desirable location, has <40% CA grads, and the remainder do not all hail from top 20 institutions.

When deciding who to interview, one of the central questions faced by residency program directors is "Does this person actually want to match here?" If you are from California and have ties to California then your case is made that much more compelling.

 

[amvet70]

When you start OOS med school it’ll be with a clean slate. Understand that it’s not so much the OOS school that’ll hurt your chances as it is how you do in med school (eg Step scores, grades in third year rotations, MSPE, AOA, etc) that will determine if you’re even offered a residency interview, and then how you do on interview (eg are you rude (not good), do you fit in, how do current residents like you, etc) that will determine how PD rank you and ultimately whether you match.

When deciding who to interview, one of the central questions faced by residency program directors is "Does this person actually want to match here?" If you are from California and have ties to California then your case is made that much more compelling.

I agree with above. I’m a UC grad, went to school OOS, applied to residencies across country. When I wrote PS for residencies, I wrote 2 different PSs with the ones intended for CA programs ending with fact that I was born and raised in CA and wanted to come back. Probably just between my ears, but I thought it was a more important fact than where I graduated from.

 

[dermie1985]

It'll just depend on what specialty. For anesthesia, I think if your goal was just to match "somewhere" in California, it shouldn't be an issue. Say, you decide you want to match derm/plastic surgery/neurosurg, well that would be a much different story.....

In terms of jobs after residency. There's always fellowship. Plus, most programs don't care too much about where you trained if it isn't academics- just that you're competent. There are head-hunters that can help you find jobs if you're applying in a region where you haven't trained. Though, the best jobs are usually word-of-mouth.