How hard is it to get into a DO school? Also, how hard is it for DO's to get into ophthalmology?

[Haxx]

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I heard Rocky Vista is still for-profit. Isn't that aspect sort of like vocational school?

Yeah except for the whole still being a doctor after you're done part. Good try, troll.

 

[CSqueed]

Yeah except for the whole still being a doctor after you're done part. Good try, troll.

Is that your end goal? To "just be a doctor?" You could've also fulfilled that in the Caribbean. In all seriousness, keep out of SDN battles that don't belong to you. I said getting into DO schools is not a prestigious feat to the common Premed and she basically called me a dick so I asked her why she didn't get the credentials to go to MD, herself.

As much as people hate to admit it, there is always a reason why they didn't do "good enough". It could range from "my parents died and it hurt me emotionally" to "I didn't know what I wanted to be until I was 30 years old", but nevertheless, most of the premeds who got into MD don't consider DO programs prestigious, but simply backup plans to "become doctors".

Of course DO students are all people and at the end of the day we like to convince ourselves that what we are doing is highly prestigious as well. All human beings need to feel like they are doing what is best for themselves, but with a gigantic reality bomb, look, we all are at DO schools for ONE reason or another, which includes we weren't exactly doing what our fellow pre-MDs were doing in college.

 

[Haxx]

Is that your end goal? To "just be a doctor?" You could've also fulfilled that in the Caribbean. In all seriousness, keep out of SDN battles that don't belong to you. I said getting into DO schools is not a prestigious feat to the common Premed and she basically called me a dick so I asked her why she didn't get the credentials to go to MD, herself.

As much as people hate to admit it, there is always a reason why they didn't do "good enough". It could range from "my parents died and it hurt me emotionally" to "I didn't know what I wanted to be until I was 30 years old", but nevertheless, most of the premeds who got into MD don't consider DO programs prestigious, but simply backup plans to "become doctors".

Of course DO students are all people and at the end of the day we like to convince ourselves that what we are doing is highly prestigious as well. All human beings need to feel like they are doing what is best for themselves, but with a gigantic reality bomb, look, we all are at DO schools for ONE reason or another, which includes we weren't exactly doing what our fellow pre-MDs were doing in college.

Maybe she did have the credentials? Maybe I did too? What if, just what if, we actually *chose* to go to DO school over MD? GASP! Now I'm not saying that it's true for her, or even me, but what do you gain from bashing on the accomplishments of others?

Some people feel accomplished graduating high school, some people feel accomplished going to any college at all, some people feel accomplished matching into Harvard Rads. Who are you to judge which one of those people has the "right" to feel that way? We each go through life, set benchmarks that point to some sort of success, and when we reach those, we feel accomplishment. When you diminish that on a public forum, it becomes my argument, because you have no right to treat anyone that way.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2013-Applicant-Matriculant-Report.pdf

also, just calculate your LizzyM score.

go nuts

Good Lord, if I could hug you I would, I have been looking for this treasure for weeks haha

 

[NontradCA]

What were you doing while other premeds were getting A's in their classes?

even for a 3.3/23 that gets into LUCOM or LMU? you have to admit, the presence of so many new schools greatly lowers the acceptance threshold for DO.

Lol, trolls. College success is widely tied to parental income, location of upbringing and skin color. I'm sorry, but pre-meds don't have any control over these things. To suggest that someone who has done nothing but go to school pampered all there life (because let's face it; most doctors, medical students and premeds are) is somehow amazing you're kidding yourself.

Making As in undergrad is easy. It takes minimal effort to do so, granted you have nothing else going on. Sorry; volunteering and waiting for a centrifuge while following protocol is not taxing work. The people you see applying to DO schools either had some other stuff going in their life, or their high school did not adequately prepare them for standardize testing.

Don't kid yourself into thinking people going to MD schools are geniuses. If you got into a DO school, you sure as hell have a right to be proud; because ultimately you want to be a doctor and this is the path you had to take. There might be an easier path sure, but at the end of the day you just have to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

 

[CSqueed]

Maybe she did have the credentials? Maybe I did too? What if, just what if, we actually *chose* to go to DO school over MD? GASP! Now I'm not saying that it's true for her, or even me, but what do you gain from bashing on the accomplishments of others?

Some people feel accomplished graduating high school, some people feel accomplished going to any college at all, some people feel accomplished matching into Harvard Rads. Who are you to judge which one of those people has the "right" to feel that way? We each go through life, set benchmarks that point to some sort of success, and when we reach those, we feel accomplishment. When you diminish that on a public forum, it becomes my argument, because you have no right to treat anyone that way.

Look Ghandi, the reason I joined these forums was because I started seeing overly prideful DO premeds telling kids all their dreams of ortho surge can come true when going to a DO school when in reality only like 6 of them actually match.

It's obviously great to feel accomplishment, but it's not good to get too cloud 9 and not realize, especially when you are about to drop 200k, that your absolute goal may be unrealistic.

 

[CSqueed]

Lol, trolls. College success is widely tied to parental income, location of upbringing and skin color. I'm sorry, but pre-meds don't have any control over these things. To suggest that someone who has done nothing but go to school pampered all there life (because let's face it; most doctors, medical students and premeds are) is somehow amazing you're kidding yourself.

Making As in undergrad is easy. It takes minimal effort to do so, granted you have nothing else going on. Sorry; volunteering and waiting for a centrifuge while following protocol is not taxing work. The people you see applying to DO schools either had some other stuff going in their life, or their high school did not adequately prepare them for standardize testing.

Don't kid yourself into thinking people going to MD schools are geniuses. If you got into a DO school, you sure as hell have a right to be proud; because ultimately you want to be a doctor and this is the path you had to take. There might be an easier path sure, but at the end of the day you just have to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

When I look to my left and right at this school, the majority of kids are having their degrees paid for by their parents.... and they are white and asian. A good number of them admit they slacked in college and retook for their A's at community colleges to get into DO.

 

[NontradCA]

When I look to my left and right at this school, the majority of kids are having their degrees paid for by their parents.... and they are white and asian. A good number of them admit they slacked in college and retook for their A's at community colleges to get into DO.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[user3]

 

[Haxx]

Look Ghandi, the reason I joined these forums was because I started seeing overly prideful DO premeds telling kids all their dreams of ortho surge can come true when going to a DO school when in reality only like 6 of them actually match.

It's obviously great to feel accomplishment, but it's not good to get too cloud 9 and not realize, especially when you are about to drop 200k, that your absolute goal may be unrealistic.

Right, but you totally just changed your argument. That's all fine and good if you want to be realistic about matching into tough specialties. I get that. But telling people that they haven't accomplished anything by getting in is totally different. /argument

 

[NontradCA]

Look Ghandi, the reason I joined these forums was because I started seeing overly prideful DO premeds telling kids all their dreams of ortho surge can come true when going to a DO school when in reality only like 6 of them actually match.

It's obviously great to feel accomplishment, but it's not good to get too cloud 9 and not realize, especially when you are about to drop 200k, that your absolute goal may be unrealistic.

 

[medickdb]

The first mistake is generalizing and assuming everyone with a 3.3 and/or who had to retake did so because he or she is lazy.

Of course, it happens. But, it's not always the case.

There are other circumstances, and it's a case by case basis.

 

[techiewizz]

Wow, just wow. So many arguments going on here!

Why would people who fail to get into MD just "give up on the whole doctor thing" instead of going DO? If they give up on the doctor thing, and go become a nurse or something, they will come out making 50-90k. If they retake classes and apply for DO, they will come out at least as a family doctor making 150k+. Or, if they try super hard in med school, they can come out in some sort of specialty making 200k+.

DO schools have a high match rate. Carribean schools on the other hand don't. Carribean med students are anxious to get any residency at all. DO students can pick and choose to some degree what they want to specialize in, or if they want to do primary care. I'd say that getting into any US accreditied medical school is quite an accomplishment, and when I apply to med schools, I'd be happy if I just got at least one acceptance, whether that be an MD or DO school.

Now, to be completely honest, if I got into an MD and a DO school, I would probably go to an MD school because I heard that they have an easier time getting into specialized residencies, such as ophthalmology. BUT, I am not bashing DO schools at all, that is just a personal preference. If I get accepted to a DO school and not to any MD schools, then I will work just as hard as I would in MD school, and try for ophthalmology as well. But that does NOT make DO schools "not prestigious to get into". You can still get into any specialty from DO school if you work hard enough. If you are looking at competitive specialties, you will have to work hard in any med school, whether that be MD or DO.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Look Ghandi, the reason I joined these forums was because I started seeing overly prideful DO premeds telling kids all their dreams of ortho surge can come true when going to a DO school when in reality only like 6 of them actually match.

It's obviously great to feel accomplishment, but it's not good to get too cloud 9 and not realize, especially when you are about to drop 200k, that your absolute goal may be unrealistic.

Are you already a med student? If so, which school?

 

[techiewizz]

Also, another question:
How many DO schools should I apply to?

I know that on the allopathic forum, people tell you to apply to about 20 schools to have the best chance of admissions. Is that the same for DO? 20 schools?

 

[touchpause13]

What were you doing while other premeds were getting A's in their classes?

I didn't achieve as well as I could have because I was stupid and young and made mistakes. I completely own up to it, it was 100% my fault.

 

[touchpause13]

I'm sorry we can't all be the perfect student you were CSqueed.

 

[touchpause13]

Also, another question:
How many DO schools should I apply to?

I know that on the allopathic forum, people tell you to apply to about 20 schools to have the best chance of admissions. Is that the same for DO? 20 schools?

Eh. I would only say to apply to 20 if you have really marginal stats. 10 is fine for most people as long as they are realistic choices. Best of luck to you

 

[DrHitchcraft]

really? wow thats amazing. That sure is a whole lot better than MD schools. Dude they need like a 30+ and you might not even get an interview D:

The DO philosophy sounds cool though, but I am also really interested in ophtho.

There are far more terrifying things to come out of the path to ophthalmology than pre-interview 30+MCAT MD rejection.

Due to the large number of stellar applicants in any competitive specialty, PDs are able to discriminate applicants using factors that you, I and/or other people in the medical community may disagree upon. One of which is whether you went to an USMD/USDO/Carribean/etc. medical school. It IS a factor and in my opinion, a non-negligible one. If the extra year(s) spent improving your medical school application is not detrimental to your morale then I think it is worth it to do this and aim for MD.

 

[DopaDO]

I'm a 3rd year DO student applying for MD ophthalmology. Feel free to PM me any questions you have about the process.

 

[techiewizz]

There are far more terrifying things to come out of the path to ophthalmology than pre-interview 30+MCAT MD rejection.

Due to the large number of stellar applicants in any competitive specialty, PDs are able to discriminate applicants using factors that you, I and/or other people in the medical community may disagree upon. One of which is whether you went to an USMD/USDO/Carribean/etc. medical school. It IS a factor and in my opinion, a non-negligible one. If the extra year(s) spent improving your medical school application is not detrimental to your morale then I think it is worth it to do this and aim for MD.

I wouldn't say my application is "too bad", it's just average. An extra year wouldn't really make a difference, since I would just be going to college that extra year and doing the same ECs (volunteering, working part time), so it wouldn't change much. Taking 2 years off after undergrad might make some difference, BUT it is likely that I WON'T find a medically related job after undergrad, and I will need some way to support myself, which might mean getting some office job that doesn't relate to medicine. This is a gamble, because this wouldn't really improve my application. That's why I'm just going to apply to med school after my junior year, so that I could just start it after my senior year.
My only problem is obtaining enough money to "apply broadly". If I could get my hands on an extra 5-6k, and apply to 40 schools (including MD and DO), then I would increase my chances of getting in by quite a bit. I have only one state MD school, and the rest of the MD schools are not reachable by car.

 

[Donkk]

No need to argue with CSqueed or user3, it is perfectly in their right to state their opinions and I respect them the same as anyone else on these forums. However, it should also have zero effect on your personal views of achievement or school choice. Some of us started college with the intent of becoming D.O.'s and/or have substantial members of the D.O. community in our families. People bash Liberty and Seton Hill on these threads all day long but, it has not changed my views on these schools, I would be happy at either. Ultimately, it is I that has to be happy where I attend, not some person in their young 20's making hateful and snide remarks. I do know that whichever school I choose, whether it be one of the aforementioned, or one of the more established schools, I will be happy and proud of my decision. I also hope that this negativity goes to another program, as I will ensure it is not around me or my classmates that want to succeed as a strong functional unit.

 

[medickdb]

People who assume that we all were partying like crazy and living it up while everyone else was studying piss me off. I'm sure some premeds were having more than a good time in undergrad. There were multiple reasons that I sure didn't. One thing a lot of people need to learn is to leave the judgment at the door, especially in medicine. Stop looking at the word as though it were simply black and white.

Don't kid yourself into thinking people going to MD schools are geniuses. If you got into a DO school, you sure as hell have a right to be proud; because ultimately you want to be a doctor and this is the path you had to take. There might be an easier path sure, but at the end of the day you just have to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

This as well. Obviously, I'm not a doctor yet, but I constantly see and hear of doctors doing stupid things, too. They hold MD, DO, LMNOP degrees. Going to medical school doesn't automatically equate to genius. If someone thinks it somehow grants you magic powers, he or she needs a swift kick back to reality.

 

[SecondChancePreDoc]

I wouldn't say my application is "too bad", it's just average. An extra year wouldn't really make a difference, since I would just be going to college that extra year and doing the same ECs (volunteering, working part time), so it wouldn't change much. Taking 2 years off after undergrad might make some difference, BUT it is likely that I WON'T find a medically related job after undergrad, and I will need some way to support myself, which might mean getting some office job that doesn't relate to medicine. This is a gamble, because this wouldn't really improve my application. That's why I'm just going to apply to med school after my junior year, so that I could just start it after my senior year.
My only problem is obtaining enough money to "apply broadly". If I could get my hands on an extra 5-6k, and apply to 40 schools (including MD and DO), then I would increase my chances of getting in by quite a bit. I have only one state MD school, and the rest of the MD schools are not reachable by car.

Dude. 40 schools is really excessive. People say "20" because that's close to the most you can do and still be able to fill out your secondaries and attend your interviews. So take a good look at the schools and apply selectively to ones you have a shot at getting in to AND would like to attend. That should help you narrow it down to ~20 MD and DO combined. Good luck!

 

[kp11]

Good Lord, if I could hug you I would, I have been looking for this treasure for weeks haha

Moments like these...make SDN tolerable

 

[k12123]

Make that 22 MCAT plus broad application should get you at least 1 interview. It's on you at that point

Concur with this
25 MCAT and you will have interviews coming out of your ears


~28+ MCAT and you will have interviews everywhere.

Opthalomology is hard, but I'll give an n=1 that one of my grads got into such a residency.

Really?!?! I was under the impression that in order to have a shot, one should have at least a 27 or greater. Makes me feel so much better!

 

[Goro]

To have a realistic shot, sure, but there are schools, especially the newest ones, like LUCOM and ACOM, that will eat a low MCAT to get someone with a decent GPA. I suspect that because they're new schools, they can't afford to be too choosy.

Really?!?! I was under the impression that in order to have a shot, one should have at least a 27 or greater. Makes me feel so much better!

 

[touchpause13]

You would be in a great spot if you did get a 27. But if you aren't choosy you could get away with a 22. I would retake in that situation though.

 

[orangeman25]

If you are really choosy, you will want at least a 30. That way, you could basically go anywhere you want (given you have at least a 3.4 GPA).

 

[user3]

For what it's worth, I had a 27 MCAT nothing lower than an 8 section, good GPA, thousands of thousands of thousands of hours of clinical experience, and 5 LoRs from MDs and DOs. I've had 1 interview and 1 acceptance. BTW i'm also a URM. I also have ZERO red flags on my application. Only thing I could think of is that first time I took the MCAT I got a 22 second time around I got a 27. Honestly it's a crap shoot. I wouldn't say get a 22+ and you're going to get in, honestly I wouldn't say that with a 25+.

Where else did you apply?

 

[TopTomato]

Where else did you apply?

LECOM Bradenton, LECOM Erie, RowanSOM, Touro NY, NYIT, PCOM, CCOM, NSU are the schools I sent the secondaries back to

 

[user3]

LECOM Bradenton, LECOM Erie, RowanSOM, Touro NY, NYIT, PCOM, CCOM, NSU are the schools I sent the secondaries back to

I'm surprised. I would have figured at least 3 ii's, although the list is a little top heavy.

 

[TopTomato]

I'm surprised. I would have figured at least 3 ii's, although the list is a little top heavy.

I agree as for DO school's it is top heavy, but like you I also would have expected to hear a little more. CCOM flat out rejected me tho. Doesn't really matter in the end tho, my #1 choice was always PCOM

 

[hallowmann]

even for a 3.3/23 that gets into LUCOM or LMU? you have to admit, the presence of so many new schools greatly lowers the acceptance threshold for DO.

I would check your info again user3. Look over the last 5-10 years of DO matriculants. The low-end matriculants for every year have had essentially the same stats or have increased. The opening of new schools have not "lowered the acceptance threshold". At best you might be able to claim that it simply slowed the raising of the threshold.

I think people really need to rethink when they say things like getting into a DO school is not some great accomplishment. There are probably hundreds of thousands of premeds. There sure are thousands that get rejected from all US medical schools (MD & DO). To begin with you are dealing with people who are likely at least at the top half of their college class. Getting into any medical school is no small feat, simply because of the check boxes that one has to complete beforehand

Now like others, I know more premeds that gave up because of the MCAT or because they were told they could never get in or because getting there would take too much work or time. Any pre-med who gets a DO acceptance has already accomplished a feat and achieved an opportunity that those people will never get. Now while a single DO acceptance may not be as impressive a feat to most premeds as a myriad of MD acceptances, it sure as hell is prestigious. Just ask the tens of thousands of premeds that don't get any medical school acceptance.

Don't belittle your colleagues or make light of their achievements, just because you wouldn't consider it a great achievement for yourself. You can set whatever bar you want for yourself, but don't project that on others.

EDIT:

...People bash Liberty and Seton Hill on these threads all day long but, it has not changed my views on these schools, I would be happy at either...

Not to be that guy, but I wouldn't group LUCOM with LECOM-SH. Beyond the fact that Seton Hill has had a graduating class that did fine in the match, that they have consistently had Level 1 pass rates in the 90s (and had a 100% pass rate in 2013), and it has been open since 2009 while Liberty hasn't even opened yet, LECOM-SH is a satellite campus of an established DO medical school. I wouldn't group it with LUCOM in the same way I wouldn't group Touro-NY, VCOM-CC, MWU-AZCOM, etc with LUCOM. They may all be relatively new (2007-2010) branch/satellite campuses, but they are not really unestablished DO schools.

No offense to LUCOM, I know nothing about that school, and I imagine like any new DO school it will do just fine and make competent doctors (I mean if it doesn't the new COCA rules will eliminate it). It is, however, a new school without a graduating class, which makes it an unknown and open to more criticism like other new schools, like ACOM, MUCOM, CUSOM, etc. (even though again, I personally believe all of those schools will do quite well).

 

[Donkk]

I would check your info again user3. Look over the last 5-10 years of DO matriculants. The low-end matriculants for every year have had essentially the same stats or have increased. The opening of new schools have not "lowered the acceptance threshold". At best you might be able to claim that it simply slowed the raising of the threshold.

I think people really need to rethink when they say things like getting into a DO school is not some great accomplishment. There are probably hundreds of thousands of premeds. There sure are thousands that get rejected from all US medical schools (MD & DO). To begin with you are dealing with people who are likely at least at the top half of their college class. Getting into any medical school is no small feat, simply because of the check boxes that one has to complete beforehand

Now like others, I know more premeds that gave up because of the MCAT or because they were told they could never get in or because getting there would take too much work or time. Any pre-med who gets a DO acceptance has already accomplished a feat and achieved an opportunity that those people will never get. Now while a single DO acceptance may not be as impressive a feat to most premeds as a myriad of MD acceptances, it sure as hell is prestigious. Just ask the tens of thousands of premeds that don't get any medical school acceptance.

Don't belittle your colleagues or make light of their achievements, just because you wouldn't consider it a great achievement for yourself. You can set whatever bar you want for yourself, but don't project that on others.

EDIT:


Not to be that guy, but I wouldn't group LUCOM with LECOM-SH. Beyond the fact that Seton Hill has had a graduating class that did fine in the match, that they have consistently had Level 1 pass rates in the 90s (and had a 100% pass rate in 2013), and it has been open since 2009 while Liberty hasn't even opened yet, LECOM-SH is a satellite campus of an established DO medical school. I wouldn't group it with LUCOM in the same way I wouldn't group Touro-NY, VCOM-CC, MWU-AZCOM, etc with LUCOM. They may all be relatively new (2007-2010) branch/satellite campuses, but they are not really unestablished DO schools.

No offense to LUCOM, I know nothing about that school, and I imagine like any new DO school it will do just fine and make competent doctors (I mean if it doesn't the new COCA rules will eliminate it). It is, however, a new school without a graduating class, which makes it an unknown and open to more criticism like other new schools, like ACOM, MUCOM, CUSOM, etc. (even though again, I personally believe all of those schools will do quite well).

I wan't trying to group the schools together, I just have seen them both bashed by one of those people. I have gone on too many interviews this year and was just pointing out that those two were a few of my top favorites, so to take what you read on here with a grain of salt is all. I wish everyone the best with their endeavors but; I still haven't figured out the motivation behind some of the posts on this website or the need to devalue someones personal choice to attend a program.

 

[hallowmann]

I wan't trying to group the schools together, I just have seen them both bashed by one of those people. I have gone on too many interviews this year and was just pointing out that those two were a few of my top favorites, so to take what you read on here with a grain of salt is all. I wish everyone the best with their endeavors but; I still haven't figured out the motivation behind some of the posts on this website or the need to devalue someones personal choice to attend a program.

Definitely pick the school you like the best. Med school is rough and stressful. Go somewhere you'll be comfortable, has clinical sites you'll be happy with, etc. Picking (or not picking) a school solely based on comments on here isn't wise at all.

 

[Aspiringphysician]

LECOM Bradenton, LECOM Erie, RowanSOM, Touro NY, NYIT, PCOM, CCOM, NSU are the schools I sent the secondaries back to

How many schools did you send primaries to? Were those you listed the only schools you sent secondaries to?

I'm so afraid that I won't get into any medical school that I apply to, even if I apply to all the DO schools. I'm not even a URM. Has anyone on here been rejected from all DO schools they applied to?

 

[TopTomato]

How many schools did you send primaries to? Were those you listed the only schools you sent secondaries to?

I'm so afraid that I won't get into any medical school that I apply to, even if I apply to all the DO schools. I'm not even a URM. Has anyone on here been rejected from all DO schools they applied to?

I sent primaries to 14 schools originally, but I was accepted pretty early on in the cycle and stopped filling out secondaries because I was accepted by my #1. Honestly man I really think it's a roll of the dice. There's plenty of people out there with 30+ MCAT and apply both MD and DO and don't get a single acceptance. Just roll the dice and see what you get

 

[HarryPlopper]

I'm so afraid that I won't get into any medical school that I apply to, even if I apply to all the DO schools. I'm not even a URM. Has anyone on here been rejected from all DO schools they applied to?

Applied to 8 and I was rejected to all but one school which I am currently attending right now. Keep working at it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Applied to 8 and I was rejected to all but one school which I am currently attending right now. Keep working at it.

This almost sounds like my story. Completed 8 secondaries. I got 3 interviews. One rejection. One acceptance. And one I didn't attend due to my acceptance.

 

[Seth Joo]

For someone with a 3.63 GPA, how likely is DO school acceptance, assuming ECs are average? ( average clinical volunteering, shadowing, very little research, one leadership activity, some part time work).

Also, I am interested in ophthalmology. How hard is it for DOs to get into ophtho?

Its not as hard as Allopathic schools, if your MCAT is above a 25, with your GPA, I think you would get plenty of interviews. MD schools are much harder to get into, I went through the process with MD schools and it was grueling, I only landed two interviews and did not get in anywhere. Then I tried DO schools the next year, got nearly 10 invitations for interviews but did not go to all of them. I interviewed at 5 DO schools and got admissions offers from four of them.

Optho is a tough residency, I think if you do well, an AOA residency is doable, an MD residency will be very very very hard to get as a DO.