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deleted993098
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How hard is it to get into a top 20 with high stats but mediocre ECs?
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do fullbright, peacecorps, teachforamerica and lie about genuineness. srs...not srs... but srs if you can do a good job and pull it off. you are shoe in then. That is what separated a lot of my high stat asian from local state and stanford/jhu/etc
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Chances at top 20? meh. Most applicants there have similar stats as you and their ECs are what separate them from the rest. You'll get interviews this cycle with an appropriate list, and it's possible from top 20s but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Your chances would have been a lot better with a gap year or two.
Not enough research. Is your non-clinical volunteering with an underserved population?
Are you a first generation or disadvantaged applicant by chance? I noticed your many work hours as a fast food employee.
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deleted993098
No, I'm not disadvantaged or first gen. I just worked over the summer at fast food to make some extra cash. My nonclincal volunteering is for a non-profit that arranges exercise activities for retired senior citizens. My clinical research did involve interviewing minority ethncities and seeing if they are less likely to interact with their physician. Since I graduated, I do have a gap year and am trying to do stuff during this year, but nothing I could put on my app since I had to move back home after college and reapply to research and hospital positions.
Check out NIH postbacc:
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Or if you'd like service more, think Americorps. Or City Year, or something like Jesuit Volunteer Corps. As you are, you could apply to half top 20s, half midtiers, and your state schools. @Goro: any idea on school list? Nonclinical volunteering is a bit low, and a couple hundred hours more of that plus 50 hours of shadowing including primary care might make OP a decent candidate at top-20 schools.
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deleted993098
I'm definitely trying to get some research and nonclicnical volunteering this gap year. I have a interview for a research internship scheduled in two weeks and have put a few hours in my local food bank this past week. I also applied to a shadowing program here in the bay area, but idk if I will get it. The program is supposed to open up end of summer. @Walter Raleigh do you think volunteering at a food bank and doing part-time research during my gap year is a sound plan?
I would also like to here from you @Goro if you have any advice on a school list or what I should pursue in my current gap year. I already submitted my app (Most cali schools + 10 top 20s and a few low-yield mid-tiers), but not secondaries yet.
I would also like to here from you @Goro if you have any advice on a school list or what I should pursue in my current gap year. I already submitted my app (Most cali schools + 10 top 20s and a few low-yield mid-tiers), but not secondaries yet.
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deleted314957
I am a bit out of my element here, but I must disagree with your suggestion of a gap year or two. While that hiatus may allow him to flesh out his application, it will ALSO cost him
his two highest earning years ( ~700K or so ) off the back end of his career. Why do that when it is clear (to me) that he can get into medical school NOW with a well targeted application?
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I wouldn't say this is true. a ~3.9 and 521 will certainly help your chances. In the real world there aren't a lot of 3.9 520 students floating around. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got into a stat ***** or two this cycle and there are certainly some of those in the top 20.
I agree with most that he should take a gap year, but comments like the bolded are LOL worthy.
Numbers often matter way more than people care to admit.
NYCVillain
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There was a statistic floating around this site that more than half of applicants with a 3.8+ 520+ end up going to the 12 schools with a median of accepted MCAT 520 or greater.
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Get MSAR the GPA/MCAT and look at top schools. Difference between 518-521 at the top are negligible. The fact that you think a 521 is an absolutely amazing score that makes you automatically top 20 worthy is laughable. Obviously, it helps, but it will not outshine lackluster ECs, which was the question posed. Numbers open the door, ECs get you through the door. Also, I said it was possible to get interviews at top schools... so.......................
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Thank god residencies mostly see past oft largely BS resume padding (one exception is clinical pub case report listz)
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For the record, I do think a 521 is an amazing score. And the reason I responded is that some on this site are so quick to dismiss or marginalize others, like saying "most applicants to t20 have similar stats to a 3.9 520+". Per LizzyM, OP is in the 97th percentile of applicants. Per the AAMC, there were 97,000 applicants last year, meaning OP is in a group of about 2000-3000 people. Many of these schools have 8000-10,000 applicants. OP is certainly far above average for top 20 APPLICANTS.
As someone with a 517 applying this cycle, I would like to believe what you are saying about the difference between a 518 and 521 being negligible, but I highly doubt it. MSAR says otherwise when a 3-4 point difference is often a difference between a schools 25th and 75th. Which is certainly significant.
Like I said earlier, OP is certainly not a shoo-in at the super elite, especially considering some of them have median MCATs in the 520s. But we're not talking top 5. We're talking ~T20 and there are certainly schools where being 4-5 points above the median will be a big boost. The numbers "getting you to the door" is something that has already been partially debunked. LizzyM described it as "stairs". Not everyone with an II is the same and stats certainly play a role in those "rungs". What if he/she is a good interviewer too?
Not automatically (nice strawman), but tell me that OP will not get love at top 20s because his EC's aren't stellar. Stats still matter post interview. I have friends with fairly average EC's and similar stats to OP who now attend schools like WashU, Vandy, etc. So maybe not automatically top 20 worthy (which I didn't imply), but certainly, there's tons of precedent for applicants like him getting into T20. Look at the stat posted in this thread that " more than half of applicants with a 3.8+ 520+ end up going to the 12 schools with a median of accepted MCAT 520 or greater." You think that's a coincidence? Doubtful.
Plus we're assuming we really know how OP will write his personal statement and frame his activities, when in reality, he/she may be a great writer with a great hook/theme that we don't know about.
I would say OP's chances are certainly higher than meh because his stat line is more impressive than you think and people are often far more compelling in their writing than in listing they did for SDN.
But that's just my 2cents.
This is more complicated than simply adding or subtracting hypothetical salaries earned/lost because of gap years taken or not taken.
Candidates who value academic medicine, and a career that includes some research and some clinical, despite the lower salaries there might be willing to take a financial hit in order to get into a T20.
Further, there is some evidence that the top tiers are better at placing students into higher paying/better life style specialties.
Finally, a candidate with stats like OP's might be forced to go for T20s to T30s because of yield protection at lower ranked schools in which case bolstering the application makes a lot of sense.
All of this is kind of moot because OP has already said s/he's taking a gap year.
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I'd suggest you apply half top 20 and half upper mid-tier (ranks 20-50). I think your self-assessment on the EC's may be correct. But your stats are too high for 'safety' schools to take you seriously.
If you're gunning for a status school, taking a year to improve your ECs might make a difference; but if you just want to get into a good (really good) medical school, then you're good.
If you're gunning for a status school, taking a year to improve your ECs might make a difference; but if you just want to get into a good (really good) medical school, then you're good.
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deleted993098
I guess I should clarify. I already applied and currently in my gap year. I haven't submitted secondaries yet tho. I have an interview lined up for a research position, am volunteering at the food bank, and am applying to a hospital internship. But I didn't mention these things in my primary (as they are not guaranteed) but will discuss them at interviews. But I don't think I will gain a substantial amount of hours from these as I am also working full-time at fast-food again currently.
If the research position is paying, then that might substitute for the fast food job.
Some medical schools allow you to send updates after your primary has been sent; this is something that you have to make sure is OK on a school by school basis.
