how hard is it to specialize as a DO?

[samac]

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The dynamic of the question in this case changes with time. With the merger and increasing schools, there will be less spots than before. DOs are also matching better than before. So while some things will still hold true, but others may change.

True, it definitely does change, but it hasn't within the past year.
I wish I knew some hard facts for after 2020, but it's all speculation.

 

[Gandyy]

I'm in no way aggressive. I'm legitemitally pointing out the search function.
No need to be offended.

See^ .... I dont know if you realize what you are doing here. I"m not the one offended. At all. I've just noticed that you post in an aggressive manner in many of your posts across SDN.

 

[samac]

See^ .... I dont know if you realize what you are doing here. I"m not the one offended. At all. I've just noticed that you post in an aggressive manner in many of your posts across SDN.

If you think that's aggressive you need to get out into the real world.
I will tell someone to use the search function. I will call someone out when they're doing something dumb. I will give people genuine advice.

(Before you call me out for being aggressive there, that was intentionally snarky, that's about as aggressive as I get)

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Isn't it the opposite? In regards to the US, IMG are American students who go abroad for school and come back to practice back in the US. FMG's are students from other countries who went to school in their home country and come to the US to practice. You're right though, there is a big difference.

I meant FMGs. Edited. Thanks for that

 

[Mad Jack]

For example, neuro?

Neurology? Easy. Neurosurgery? Damn near impossible, unless you're an absolute superstar, MD or DO. DO will be significantly harder though.

Some specialties are far easier to go into than others as a DO. Anesthesiology, PM&R, several IM subspecialties (rheum, nephro), pathology, psychiatry, EM, etc. Your quality of program and difficulty matching will be greater than that of an MD, regardless of specialty, however, and you might find yourself somewhat geographically limited in regard to your application.

 

[deleted158872]

Neurology? Easy. Neurosurgery? Damn near impossible, unless you're an absolute superstar, MD or DO. DO will be significantly harder though.

Some specialties are far easier to go into than others as a DO. Anesthesiology, PM&R, several IM subspecialties (rheum, nephro), pathology, psychiatry, EM, etc. Your quality of program and difficulty matching will be greater than that of an MD, regardless of specialty, however, and you might find yourself somewhat geographically limited in regard to your application.

Can you talk a bit about geographical limitation?

 

[Gandyy]

If you think that's aggressive you need to get out into the real world.
I will tell someone to use the search function. I will call someone out when they're doing something dumb. I will give people genuine advice.

(Before you call me out for being aggressive there, that was intentionally snarky, that's about as aggressive as I get)

Please Samac... I probably have more "real world" experience than you do. Lets not resort to comments like that. Trust me I'm not crying in a corner because of what you are saying to me on an online public forum.

I'm not just talking about this post... I've noticed an aggressive hostile tone in a lot of your posts. Now lets drop this before it actually gets aggressive.

 

[Mad Jack]

Can you talk a bit about geographical limitation?

Matching most specialties in places like Boston and NYC is extremely difficult unless you're going for something uncompetitive and have great stats. In my case, there are only two programs for a specialty I'm very interested in in my home state, one of which does not take DOs at all, the other of which isn't viewed as a strong program.

Basically, many prime places are locked out if you're a DO. The same happens as an IMG, just to a much greater extent.

 

[deleted407021]

Matching most specialties in places like Boston and NYC is extremely difficult unless you're going for something uncompetitive and have great stats. In my case, there are only two programs for a specialty I'm very interested in in my home state, one of which does not take DOs at all, the other of which isn't viewed as a strong program.

Basically, many prime places are locked out if you're a DO. The same happens as an IMG, just to a much greater extent.

If you're not interested in living in a cement and steel hell like NYC, Boston or LA, might one be put in a better spot when applying, since one wouldn't be attracted to those locales anyway?

 

[Mad Jack]

If you're not interested in living in a cement and steel hell like NYC, Boston or LA, might one be put in a better spot when applying, since one wouldn't be attracted to those locales anyway?

You're not in a better spot than an MD. You're just in a closer-to-equal spot. If an MD and a DO are fighting for some godforsaken spot in BFE, the MD will probably win, all things equal, as future applicants will see a US MD on the program's resident list and assume it is a sign of less malignancy that a US MD would be willing to go there. All that being said, most DOs are fine if they're looking to match rural.

 

[deleted407021]

You're not in a better spot than an MD. You're just in a closer-to-equal spot. If an MD and a DO are fighting for some godforsaken spot in BFE, the MD will probably win, all things equal, as future applicants will see a US MD on the program's resident list and assume it is a sign of less malignancy that a US MD would be willing to go there. All that being said, most DOs are fine if they're looking to match rural.

And I'm assuming that plenty of rural programs provide very good training. Is that correct?

 

[deleted158872]

Is there an official list of residency programs that don't take DOs?

 

[AlteredScale]

Is there an official list of residency programs that don't take DOs?

No but I can say that for categorical IM UCSD, UCSF (main medical center not Fresno), UCLA Ronald Reagan, Stanford, BWH, MGH, Rutgers NJMS, Tulane, NYU Langone, New York Presbyterian Cornell and Columbia do not have any DOs and none of their alumni are DOs.

NYU-Langone webpage for IM actually stated in their FAQ that they didn't accept osteopathic graduate applications. That web page has been taken down since.e

 

[Mad Jack]

And I'm assuming that plenty of rural programs provide very good training. Is that correct?

You might not get a good mix of pathology, but otherwise the training meets ACGME standards.

 

[becomingdoctor]

No but I can say that for categorical IM UCSD, UCSF (main medical center not Fresno), UCLA Ronald Reagan, Stanford, BWH, MGH, Rutgers NJMS, Tulane, NYU Langone, New York Presbyterian Cornell and Columbia do not have any DOs and none of their alumni are DOs.

NYU-Langone webpage for IM actually stated in their FAQ that they didn't accept osteopathic graduate applications. That web page has been taken down since.e

The chef neurology resident at UCSD is a DO (PhD).
All the programs you listed are very hard for lower-tier/mid-lower tier MD programs. How many residents in those programs are from Meharry?

 

[68PGunner]

If you are so concern about matching into a specialty, you should try going to only ACGME residency.

I personally think your MD/DO title carries little value if your internal med residency is ACGME.

 

[dapdrow]

No but I can say that for categorical IM UCSD, UCSF (main medical center not Fresno), UCLA Ronald Reagan, Stanford, BWH, MGH, Rutgers NJMS, Tulane, NYU Langone, New York Presbyterian Cornell and Columbia do not have any DOs and none of their alumni are DOs.

NYU-Langone webpage for IM actually stated in their FAQ that they didn't accept osteopathic graduate applications. That web page has been taken down since.e

Which is funny, considering NYU will hire DOs.

 

[AlteredScale]

The chef neurology resident at UCSD is a DO (PhD).
All the programs you listed are very hard for lower-tier/mid-lower tier MD programs. How many residents in those programs are from Meharry?

I think it's easier to enter any university hospital as an attending. But the training programs themselves are very difficult to get into due to competition as you stated.

In parallel with what you just said, if these programs are tough for just low/mid-tier MD grads to get into then DO grads may not even have a change to be looked at. PD's can simply segregate out independent applicants from the NRMP (FMG/IMG, reapplicants, DO's).

 

[becomingdoctor]

I think it's easier to enter any university hospital as an attending. But the training programs themselves are very difficult to get into due to competition as you stated.

In parallel with what you just said, if these programs are tough for just low/mid-tier MD grads to get into then DO grads may not even have a change to be looked at. PD's can simply segregate out independent applicants from the NRMP (FMG/IMG, reapplicants, DO's).

Test score, away rotation, LOR, reputation of the home department, applicant's personal rank list are all important factors then PD consider ranking.
For ucsd gen surg, the two most important factors are the test score and the reputation of the gen surg program at applicant's home school.
My point is if you don't see any DO in the department, it does not necessary means this department is hostile to DO, maybe the DO applicant is not competitive enough even if the word osteopathic is covered from the resume.