How hard to specialize on perio?

[gegogi]

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Do you think it's hard to get into perio? I was wondering what rank range is possible for getting into perio. And, what is good for perio? Some say it's good because they are experts on implants, but don't GPs do implants?

 

[3puttinHacker]

Do you think it's hard to get into perio? I was wondering what rank range is possible for getting into perio. And, what is good for perio? Some say it's good because they are experts on implants, but don't GPs do implants?

I think as it is with other specialities it can be tough to get into irregardless. But when compared to OMFS, ortho etc.. From what i have seen (personally) and who the few perio residents we have it seems easier than those. I do know of the perio residents was mid class but rocked his first set of boards. I wish I knew how the whole applying for specialities is going to change now that Part 1 is P/F only. Yes Gp can do implants as well.

 

[bigstix808]

Do you think it's hard to get into perio? I was wondering what rank range is possible for getting into perio. And, what is good for perio? Some say it's good because they are experts on implants, but don't GPs do implants?

i actually JUST has this convo with one of our perio attendings the other week ... she mentioned that top half with good board scores 85+ would make you competitive from a #'s side. perio tends to like research of some kind (pref in something to do with perio obviously) but is by no means a requirement.

perio and OS will always go back and forth for who are better at implants. most perio programs do not focus on lots of implants, but it has a more dx / tx planning curriculum and doing the other surgeries associated with perio disease.

she emphasized, after i asked about how many implants they did, "if you want to do tons of implants go do a GPR/AEGD" ... "after you place so many its really nothing new" ... so take that as you will 😎

edit: here at MCG (soon to be GHSU 🙁 ) the perio residents place around 60-80, and the GPR placing 100+ is quite common

 

[ItsGavinC]

At many programs all you need to do is submit an application. Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not much. There's a reason they invent new terms such as "periodontal plastic surgery." Gotta entice applicants somehow.

 

[og2]

perio people will probably take offense to this, but honestly perio is one of the easiest specialities to get into. no real requirements in terms of numbers/stats as far as i know. sky's the limit.

 

[joshmonsta]

Nobody knows more about soft tissue management than the periogods. They are the best of the best.

 

[Mackchops]

A few friends are going into perio and they seem to be fairly smart people. All programs have more applicants than spots available -- usually to the tune of 10 to 1 -- but all are considerably less competitive than OS, ortho, endo, etc.

Periogods can go overboard with their "periodontal plastic surgery", but in my limited experience I have found perio to be much more appreciative of the restorative aspects of their specialty than OS. If my patient goes to perio for an implant they come back with the implant in the right place and even have a little keratinized tissue around it. If my patient goes to OS they get a rod drilled into their jawbone. This is a gross generalization of course, but when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail...

 

[drhobie7]

If my patient goes to OS they get a rod drilled into their jawbone. This is a gross generalization of course, but when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail...

A rod drilled into their jawbone? Come on. This is based on your one or two implants you had placed by an OMS resident/intern?

 

[joshmonsta]

Most OMFS looks at the big picture, which is a good thing many times. Most PerioGods look at the minute details, which is a good thing all of the time.

 

[drhobie7]

Most OMFS looks at the big picture, which is a good thing many times. Most PerioGods look at the minute details, which is a good thing all of the time.

Seeing the bigger picture is ALWAYS a good thing. If you don't have that perspective your patient may suffer.

 

[monreal]

Seeing the bigger picture is ALWAYS a good thing. If you don't have that perspective your patient may suffer.

True for surgeons. I find the "minute details" claim is laughable. Here's how it goes IMO: Surgeons always see the bigger picture, perios most likely don't; Attention to details and soft tissue handling are practitioner specific, no matter what the specialty is. Many surgeons are meticulous and many perios are not. So, easy case==> I do it. Not so easy==> I'm glad to send it to a competent OS. Perios have no place in my implant practice.

 

[og2]

True for surgeons. I find the "minute details" claim is laughable. Here's how it goes IMO: Surgeons always see the bigger picture, perios most likely don't; Attention to details and soft tissue handling are practitioner specific, no matter what the specialty is. Many surgeons are meticulous and many perios are not. So, easy case==> I do it. Not so easy==> I'm glad to send it to a competent OS. Perios have no place in my implant practice.

couldn't agree more with the bolded part of your post. terrible/gifted clinicians are well represented in all specialties. and since this thread is about perio, in my own personal experience i've unfortunately seen far more clinically incompetent periodontists than those who are skillful with their hands.

 

[lotexigeus]

From what i've seen at our school, you send your implant cases to OMFS and stay away from the perio department.

 

[charlestweed]

From what i've seen at our school, you send your implant cases to OMFS and stay away from the perio department.

Some perio programs have strong implant curriculum and some have weak one. Some OS programs are good at doing orthognathic surgeries and some are not. This is why one of my ortho instructors refers the orthognathic cases to a private OS… instead of our school’s OMFS dept.

In the private practice world, the OS or perio who takes good care of his/her referring sources (GP, prosth, ortho) is the one who gets to place a lot of implants. The OS or perio, who has a strong restorative background and makes the restorative process easy for the referring GPs, is the one who gets more referrals. I know some bad perios and OS’s who just collect the $$$ for after placing the implants and don’t even call the patients back for the uncovering procedure.

Treatment planning and communicating with the referring GPs (especially the GP who doesn’t have strong clinical skills) are the hardest things that the perios and OS’s have to deal with every single day…..this is why I stick to ortho😀.

 

[joshmonsta]

There is nothing more exhilarating than watching a PerioGod manage soft tissue. The OMFS can deal with hard tissue, sure, but when it comes to the soft tissues of the periodontium there is only 1 specialty that stands a chance of cultivating that gingival garden. It is always just another day in Periodise.

 

[og2]

There is nothing more exhilarating than watching a PerioGod manage soft tissue. The OMFS can deal with hard tissue, sure, but when it comes to the soft tissues of the periodontium there is only 1 specialty that stands a chance of cultivating that gingival garden. It is always just another day in Periodise.

not gonna lie. this is hilarious

 

[sarah_bellum]

not gonna lie. this is hilarious

I disagree. I find the "periodontists are stupid" vibe as played out as the "I have a 4.2 and a 105 on part I, do I stand a chance at ortho?" threads.

 

[lotexigeus]

I disagree. I find the "periodontists are stupid" vibe as played out as the "I have a 4.2 and a 105 on part I, do I stand a chance at ortho?" threads.

you either must want to specialize in perio, or don't have a perio department at your school that sucks as bad as mine. Almost impossible requirements in clinic that are absolutely unnecessary. A diagnostic mounting for a perio eval comp? why? I don't get it, it just wastes the patient's time and mine. We do our competencies third year (eval comp, re-eval comp, instrumentation comp), then have to find more perio patients willing to save their teeth and redo them 4th year. Maybe i don't understand what competent means. The department is a joke.


I can't get enough of the perio bashing.

 

[Stroszeck]

You guys think perio is crappy and funny in dental school? Wait till you get out into private practice and you hear a periodontist refer to themselves as a "surgeon"...I almost pissed myself. Then i "referred" over a patient of mine whose mouth literally smells like the inside of a running shoe with teeth dangling by a thin thread. Surgeon indeed. More like Putridontist.

 

[joshmonsta]

Wait till you get out into private practice and you hear a periodontist refer to themselves as a "surgeon"...I almost pissed myself.

A PerioGod referring to themselves as a "surgeon", that is like a Dentist referring to themselves as a "doctor".

 

[DrReo]

You guys think perio is crappy and funny in dental school? Wait till you get out into private practice and you hear a periodontist refer to themselves as a "surgeon"...I almost pissed myself. Then i "referred" over a patient of mine whose mouth literally smells like the inside of a running shoe with teeth dangling by a thin thread. Surgeon indeed. More like Putridontist.

How does a periodontist differ from a bread and butter oral surgery practice? They both are placing implants, sinus lifts, bone grafts, etc. Are you saying oral surgeons are not surgeons and a misnomer? Or is the practice of extracting third molars is what makes these talented folks surgeons.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

How does a periodontist differ from a bread and butter oral surgery practice? They both are placing implants, sinus lifts, bone grafts, etc. Are you saying oral surgeons are not surgeons and a misnomer? Or is the practice of extracting third molars is what makes these talented folks surgeons.

You're a surgeon by training. Not by title. The financial reality restricts OMS to 3rds and implants. A periodontists training restricts them to whatever they do now.

Forget about the surgeon title. You often try and defend your interest in perio by cutting down OMS.

 

[DrReo]

You're a surgeon by training. Not by title. The financial reality restricts OMS to 3rds and implants. A periodontists training restricts them to whatever they do now.

Forget about the surgeon title. You often try and defend your interest in perio by cutting down OMS.

If one is a marathoner twenty years ago and hasn't completed a marathon since, are they still a marathoner if they only run 5k races? I understand what you're trying to state. You can train all you want, but if you do not utilize it after, what's the point? No education is wasted and it's sad the maxillofacial trauma is not financially rewarding. Ironically, oral surgeons elect to do the same procedures as periodontists do, regardless of the surgical training.

I'm not cutting down OMS. I have utmost respect for periodontist, oral surgeons, oral and maxillofacial surgeons, and everyone in the dental community both in their clinical and educational experiences.

 

[armorshell]

If one is a marathoner twenty years ago and hasn't completed a marathon since, are they still a marathoner if they only run 5k races? I understand what you're trying to state. You can train all you want, but if you do not utilize it after, what's the point? No education is wasted and it's sad the maxillofacial trauma is not financially rewarding.

That analogy would only make sense if only a marathoner was the only one who could ever run a marathon. Is someone who completes a surgical residency and then writes cookbooks for the rest of their life a surgeon? Yeah. Would it be ridiculous for them to introduce themselves as such? Also yeah.

Ironically, oral surgeons elect to do the same procedures as periodontists do, regardless of the surgical training.

First of all, that's not irony. Second of all, you've got it backwards. Wisdom teeth, implants and grafting/sinus lifts are procedures that were the sole domain of OMFS. When implants exploded, the traditional scope of perio all but evaporated and the field has been moving into a scope very similar to what private practice oral surgery has always been.

Also, remember kiddies, the implant train is going away. Grafting with autologous bone is becoming a thing of the past due to materials science, as are site preparatory surgeries like sinus lifts. Hell, technique as a whole is being suctioned out of implant surgery (CT guided stents) because the implant companies know they can only start really raking it in when they convince every general dentist they can place all their own implants. I believe we will probably see this in our lifetime, significantly reducing the number of cases kicked out to referral. Why do I mention this?

Once implants are being placed routinely by GPs, what's the role for a periodontist?

 

[DrReo]

Once implants are being placed routinely by GPs, what's the role for a periodontist?[/QUOTE]

The periodontist will probably venture into procedures preserving the soft tissues during exodontia. 😉

 

[drmak]

I think as it is with other specialities it can be tough to get into irregardless. But when compared to OMFS, ortho etc.. From what i have seen (personally) and who the few perio residents we have it seems easier than those. I do know of the perio residents was mid class but rocked his first set of boards. I wish I knew how the whole applying for specialities is going to change now that Part 1 is P/F only. Yes Gp can do implants as well.

I am a BDS with good undergraduate record. GRE -890 Toefl 86 on Ibt
havent given NBDE as it is not the requirement as an international applicant. I want to apply in Perio residency program in baylor college of Dentisttry. what are my chances???
If chances are good than okay, but if not , than which university perio program is the easiest to get into?

Thanks

 

[charlestweed]

Also, remember kiddies, the implant train is going away. Grafting with autologous bone is becoming a thing of the past due to materials science, as are site preparatory surgeries like sinus lifts. Hell, technique as a whole is being suctioned out of implant surgery (CT guided stents) because the implant companies know they can only start really raking it in when they convince every general dentist they can place all their own implants.

Although autogenous bone grafts and sinus lifts are not routinely done, they are necessary in some cases in order to achieve proper implant placements. If the implants are not properly placed, the restorative GP/prosth cannot restore them properly (function and esthetics). You may lose the referrals and get sued. I’ve seen a couple of badly placed implant cases (due to lack of bone, poor tx planning etc) that were placed by other GPs, perios, and OS’.....they were so bad that none of the GPs/Prosths wanted to touch (or restore) them.

I believe we will probably see this in our lifetime, significantly reducing the number of cases kicked out to referral. Why do I mention this?

Nope, I don’t see this happens in our lifetime. The number of GPs who place implants in their practices is still very small. Three of the seven GPs, whom my wife works for (as an in-house perio), previously took hands-on implant CE courses. These 3 GPs decide not to place implants in their practices because they feel that it’s easier just to split 50:50 with my wife and they don’t have to deal with expensive implant overhead and post op complications such as pain, swelling, and implant failure etc.

 

[drmak]

Although autogenous bone grafts and sinus lifts are not routinely done, they are necessary in some cases in order to achieve proper implant placements. If the implants are not properly placed, the restorative GP/prosth cannot restore them properly (function and esthetics). You may lose the referrals and get sued. I’ve seen a couple of badly placed implant cases (due to lack of bone, poor tx planning etc) that were placed by other GPs, perios, and OS’.....they were so bad that none of the GPs/Prosths wanted to touch (or restore) them.


Nope, I don’t see this happens in our lifetime. The number of GPs who place implants in their practices is still very small. Three of the seven GPs, whom my wife works for (as an in-house perio), previously took hands-on implant CE courses. These 3 GPs decide not to place implants in their practices because they feel that it’s easier just to split 50:50 with my wife and they don’t have to deal with expensive implant overhead and post op complications such as pain, swelling, and implant failure etc.

I am a BDS with good undergraduate record. GRE -890 Toefl 86 on Ibt
havent given NBDE as it is not the requirement as an international applicant. I want to apply in Perio residency program in baylor college of Dentisttry. what are my chances???
If chances are good than okay, but if not , than which university perio program is the easiest to get into?

Thanks

 

[DrReo]

I am a BDS with good undergraduate record. GRE -890 Toefl 86 on Ibt
havent given NBDE as it is not the requirement as an international applicant. I want to apply in Perio residency program in baylor college of Dentisttry. what are my chances???
If chances are good than okay, but if not , than which university perio program is the easiest to get into?

Thanks

We read this the first time!

 

[browncrack]

I am a BDS with good undergraduate record. GRE -890 Toefl 86 on Ibt
havent given NBDE as it is not the requirement as an international applicant. I want to apply in Perio residency program in baylor college of Dentisttry. what are my chances???
If chances are good than okay, but if not , than which university perio program is the easiest to get into?

Thanks

69 to 1

 

[teethmagnet]

We read this the first time!

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHA tooo funnny

thanks for a good laugh DrReo!!

 

[Masseter]

There is nothing more exhilarating than watching a PerioGod manage soft tissue. The OMFS can deal with hard tissue, sure, but when it comes to the soft tissues of the periodontium there is only 1 specialty that stands a chance of cultivating that gingival garden. It is always just another day in Periodise.

Post.of.the.year.

 

[PChemGrad]

perio is one of the easiest specialities to get into.

I'd have to agree, all you have to do is apply.

 

[ddstobe]

There is nothing more exhilarating than watching a PerioGod manage soft tissue. The OMFS can deal with hard tissue, sure, but when it comes to the soft tissues of the periodontium there is only 1 specialty that stands a chance of cultivating that gingival garden. It is always just another day in Periodise.

lol, indeed a perio hater!