How hard would it be to get a residency... if my grades suck?

[Chris co2012]

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[Praziquantel86]

Take a look at the residency stats thread to get an idea of what people here have done.

But, in all honesty, you're going to have a VERY uphill battle. Your grades will probably put you below the cutoff for any program that uses a GPA cutoff (no official list, but many use it as a screening tool). Have you done anything that makes you stand out as a candidate (research, professional leadership, etc.)? If the answer is no, then you, unfortunately, have a very minimal chance.

 

[Chris co2012]

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[Chris co2012]

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[Praziquantel86]

Wait a minute, but over in the residency forum, they're talking about people with less than 3.0GPAs getting accepted. So wait... how are GPAs set up for most pharmacy schools? Is each class just A = 4.0, B = 3.0, C = 4.0, etc? Or is it 89 = 3.9, 88 = 3.8, etc?

I have to go through rotations and I think my GPA will be pulled up to a 3.0 that way. But my school's GPA is set up to the 89 = 3.9, 88 = 3.8, etc.

Some people do manage. It's not impossible, but it is more difficult - especially as things get more competitive.

Rotations definitely do help with GPA, but sometimes the academic cycle of conferring grades don't match up with when transcripts have to be received by the program.

 

[Chris co2012]

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[PumpkinSmasher]

Wait a minute, but over in the residency forum, they're talking about people with less than 3.0GPAs getting accepted. So wait... how are GPAs set up for most pharmacy schools? Is each class just A = 4.0, B = 3.0, C = 4.0, etc? Or is it 89 = 3.9, 88 = 3.8, etc?

I have to go through rotations and I think my GPA will be pulled up to a 3.0 that way. But my school's GPA is set up to the 89 = 3.9, 88 = 3.8, etc.

If you are below or just at the cutoff point it is going to be a tough battle if your CV is blank as far as research, publication, leadership, community health outreach volunteering, hospital internship throughout school, awards, etc... Often times people have low grades due to extensive outside involvement but if you have zero involvement and low grades....well that speaks for itself.

Do you have close relationship with any clinical faculty that will be able to attest to your clinical skills or work ethic? You still have time to build relationships.

 

[owlegrad]

I sometimes think about this as well. My grades are horrible - as in, I only barely escaped repeating coursework. I am scarcely above the passing range for my school. But I do have experience in both retail and hospital pharmacies, could easily get excellent LOR's from my bosses, as well as from some clinical professors, and I am extensively involved in community service activities. I also have leadership experience in various forms. I wonder if I wanted to do a residency if I even could. I doubt it. sigh.



Side note: I hate WAMC threads and I feel dirty for having contributed to one. 😉

 

[Chris co2012]

What's a WAMC thread?

 

[KARM12]

What classes did you get D's in? Residency programs put some emphasis on the grades you get in therapeutics/patient care classes as opposed to physio or biochem.

 

[Sparda29]

I sometimes think about this as well. My grades are horrible - as in, I only barely escaped repeating coursework. I am scarcely above the passing range for my school. But I do have experience in both retail and hospital pharmacies, could easily get excellent LOR's from my bosses, as well as from some clinical professors, and I am extensively involved in community service activities. I also have leadership experience in various forms. I wonder if I wanted to do a residency if I even could. I doubt it. sigh.



Side note: I hate WAMC threads and I feel dirty for having contributed to one. 😉

Same for me, I barely passed most of my classes. Would being a chair of an APhA project be enough to overcome the ****ty GPA? Is it enough to personally know the person who is currently starting a residency there and get a LOR from them (co-worker who graduated 1 year before me)

Also, if I'm thinking about Academia, such as teaching at a new school that opens up the same year that I graduate, is it possible to get those kinds of jobs without having completed a residency (let's say you know the Dean)?

 

[owlegrad]

What's a WAMC thread?

Haha, What Are My Chances.

 

[rxlea]

I have found it difficult to compete with my classmates for leadership positions. A lot of people know each other from undergrad or vote for the members of their cliques. That is why I am going for national offices and projects outside of school that are still in the realm of pharmacy. I doubt my GPA will end up any higher than a 3.6-3.7 by the time I graduate. I am hoping for at least a 3.5 but I will have to see how 2nd year goes. I think the important thing is to have good work experience + LORs in the absence of leadership positions and a strong GPA. Most of the residency directors I have communicated with list "hospital experience" as an important factor in their selection of residents, depending on the institution.

 

[owlegrad]

Same for me, I barely passed most of my classes. Would being a chair of an APhA project be enough to overcome the ****ty GPA? Is it enough to personally know the person who is currently starting a residency there and get a LOR from them (co-worker who graduated 1 year before me)

Also, if I'm thinking about Academia, such as teaching at a new school that opens up the same year that I graduate, is it possible to get those kinds of jobs without having completed a residency (let's say you know the Dean)?

Plenty of my professors are not residency trained, but none of them got the job straight out of pharmacy school. Couldn't hurt to know the Dean, assuming he has a high opinion of you. 😉

 

[Chris co2012]

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[Praziquantel86]

Same for me, I barely passed most of my classes. Would being a chair of an APhA project be enough to overcome the ****ty GPA? Is it enough to personally know the person who is currently starting a residency there and get a LOR from them (co-worker who graduated 1 year before me)

Also, if I'm thinking about Academia, such as teaching at a new school that opens up the same year that I graduate, is it possible to get those kinds of jobs without having completed a residency (let's say you know the Dean)?

It's not a question of "can you", it's a question of "should you." What right would you, an admittedly vastly underachieving pharmacy student, have to teach future students without additional training? Forgive me for saying this, but I wouldn't trust a word you said or respect you in any way as a professor.

There's a reason these checkstops are in place.

 

[Chris co2012]

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[type b pharmD]

unless you have a very specific reason for needing a residency.. , i would not stress about not getting one. a person with good motivation and a great work ethic.. can find and excel in valuable work experiences .. which will boost your resume enough to get where you want to go. think about it. if you havent gotten great grades, there is a decent chance that you dont care enough about playing the academic game, jumping through the academic hoops, in order to really live up to the level of hoop jumping a residency will demand.. in which case. you're better off just doing something that suits you more.

personally, I don't have great grades either, and I have completely weeded myself out of the residency pool probably.. but. i have spent my time on internships in my areas of interest, which will ultimately lead me where i want to go. would it be cool to be an ID pharmacist or a subspecialty in medicine? probably, and sometimes i'm sad that i'm going to miss out on it .. but . in reality, you gotta think about what kind of work environment you will enjoy. I *know* i would not enjoy the academic rat race..

Think about what other settings you can get a job in. Go out and get some experience via whatever means necessary. Try to get a drug info internship.. nuclear internship.. insurance company internship.. nursing home or compounding or home infusion, or independent pharmacy internships. These are all interesting and unique niches that will allow you to go as far as you want to if you have the work ethic (without requiring a residency). Personally my desire is to join an independent nuke lab. They're not looking for residency trained people. They're looking for a very specific set of skills, common sense, work ethic, and a head for business. You can develop all of those outside the academic setting.

 

[Praziquantel86]

That's funny because I've seen my fair share of sucky professors in pharmacy school. To add to that, I've also have 1 1/2 years of hospital experience in which I've seen PLENTY of sucky residents... with 4.0's. We had a resident at our hospital who never even passed the NAPLEX.

Sooo.... I don't trust ANYBODY unless I experience their teachings first.

I don't disagree, I think everyone needs to have their teaching ability validated firsthand. However, I don't think that a fresh graduate, under any circumstances, would have the training necessary to even be given a chance at teaching. It would be irresponsible for any school to allow that.

 

[Chris co2012]

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[mustang sally]

That's funny because I've seen my fair share of sucky professors in pharmacy school. To add to that, I've also have 1 1/2 years of hospital experience in which I've seen PLENTY of sucky residents... with 4.0's. We had a resident at our hospital who never even passed the NAPLEX.

Sooo.... I don't trust ANYBODY unless I experience their teachings first.

How can you be in a residency if you can't pass the NAPLEX? Just curious...didn't think it was possible to work as a resident if you didn't get licensed.

 

[psychoandy]

If you read the stats thread you probably already know my opinion on this. That being said, if you're willing to move and go for lesser known areas/residency, interview well, network and have good LOR regardless of academic performance, you might have a shot.

There are also many non-retail jobs that don't need residency like staff rph that just checks IV or PO meds, Med safety at drug companies, etc (although due to sheer number of residents this will most likely change).

 

[Chris co2012]

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[pfaction]

I know someone in your position. He's doing amazing on rotations. Some people hate school for being didactic and really open up when they're put on the spot and are dealing with actual patients. If you can get LOR's from clinical and have a good explanation about the grades, you MAY be able to get into a residency.