How helpful is 4k hours of clinical experience in the application process?

[AlfonsTheGuru]

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Assuming 3.8, interesting research, meaningful EC's, the usual. Does 4k hours of clinical experience "catapult" your application?

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Need more info OP. what time of clinical experience did you get 4000 hours in? Over how many years? What do you mean by catapult?

 

[piii]

Not alone, no.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

I would think he setting/job would be more significant in terms of how beneficial it will be to your app, and how you tie that into a cohesive application.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

You mean 4,000 clinical hours? I'm guessing from a job? (40 hrs/week*50 weeks/yr=2000, so 2 years in a full time clinical job?)

Personally I'm a fan of quality over quantity, so the number is less important than how well you can explain how it impacted your decision to go to med school

 

[ridethecliche]

After a certain point, it doesn't help anymore.

The arbitrary hour 'requirement' is to make sure you've given it some thought and know what some sort of doctorish things look like, not a way to push you to the top of the totem pole.

 

[mr.mkitty]

Look at my mdapps in order for you to judge how it helps.
It'll help more at less research intense schools, but surprisingly it didn't seem to help that much regardless.

 

[MaxPlancker]

Qual > quant young paddawan.

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

Need more info OP. what time of clinical experience did you get 4000 hours in? Over how many years? What do you mean by catapult?

Sorry about the lack of specificity. I'm going to work as a certified medical assistant for 1 year full time, and 4 years part time.. By catapult, I mean just make the adcoms have a type of "😵!" of expression on their face when they read my application.

Not alone, no.

We know.

You mean 4,000 clinical hours? I'm guessing from a job? (40 hrs/week*50 weeks/yr=2000, so 2 years in a full time clinical job?)

Personally I'm a fan of quality over quantity, so the number is less important than how well you can explain how it impacted your decision to go to med school

I believe I will have both aspects. Medical assisting for 5 years shows dedication and maturity to hold down a job and supports myself while keeping relevance to my career choice.

an applicant for MD with 400 hours would be alot

Then I'm in luck 🙂

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Sorry about the lack of specificity. I'm going to work as a certified medical assistant for 1 year full time, and 4 years part time.. By catapult, I mean just make the adcoms have a type of "😵!" of expression on their face when they read my application.

We know.

I believe I will have both aspects. Medical assisting for 5 years shows dedication and maturity to hold down a job and supports myself while keeping relevance to my career choice.

Then I'm in luck 🙂

So you're planning your app 5 years in advance? If it's just for app value then There are way better ways to spend your time.

You're going to experience diminishing returns the longer you spend...

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

So you're planning your app 5 years in advance? If it's just for app value then There are way better ways to spend your time.

You're going to experience diminishing returns the longer you spend...

Well, I enjoy working as a medical assistant. I need to make an income to support myself, so why not do what I like.

And what do you mean?

 

[gyngyn]

Well, I enjoy working as a medical assistant. I need to make an income to support myself, so why not do what I like.

And what do you mean?

As an element in an application, the additional hours are non-contributory.
By all means, make a living, though!

 

[Jav116]

It would definitely show you are clinically oriented, but don't neglect the fact you will still need to get in some shadowing hours done. I had a little over 500 hours on a similar clinical experience but supplemented it with close to 150 hours of shadowing in two specialities.


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[CyrilFiggis]

It would definitely show you are clinically oriented, but don't neglect the fact you will still need to get in some shadowing hours done. I had a little over 500 hours on a similar clinical experience but supplemented it with close to 150 hours of shadowing in two specialities.

This is not entirely necessary. Plenty of applicants get in without shadowing.

 

[mimelim]

I consider shadowing hours more valuable than being an MA. Both give credence to the, "I know what I'm talking about when I say, 'I know medicine and it is what I want to do.'" But, after spending a lot of time with shadows, MAs and scribes, I find that MAs and scribes are working and that distracts. Hopefully when you are shadowing, you are observing the physician, thinking about and processing what they are doing and maybe even asking them questions/talking to them about their job. There is something to be said for the passive exposure that you get while working with physicians. But, you really can't replace dedicated time spent focused on the physician's job/role.

Of course many people get into medical school every year with zero shadowing. But, I think that the vast majority of adcoms and certainly those that have been doing this for a while see the limited utility of 'working' clinical hours.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I consider shadowing hours more valuable than being an MA. Both give credence to the, "I know what I'm talking about when I say, 'I know medicine and it is what I want to do.'" But, after spending a lot of time with shadows, MAs and scribes, I find that MAs and scribes are working and that distracts. Hopefully when you are shadowing, you are observing the physician, thinking about and processing what they are doing and maybe even asking them questions/talking to them about their job. There is something to be said for the passive exposure that you get while working with physicians. But, you really can't replace dedicated time spent focused on the physician's job/role.

Of course many people get into medical school every year with zero shadowing. But, I think that the vast majority of adcoms and certainly those that have been doing this for a while see the limited utility of 'working' clinical hours.

I'll start off by saying I think it's easy to confuse "showing I know what you are getting into in medicine" and trying to impress an school and "highlight characteristics that would be most desirable in a prospective candidate for med school". I agree for "showing" shadowing is better than scribing. A non clinical job could allow opportunities to highlight such skills/traits that would be most desirable in a prospective candidate than a clinical job. In other words, just putting yourself in a hospital doesnt merely highlight these qualities Im talking about and I think that's what gets losts on many. It's easy to mix the two ideas of "What job/position would highlight the traits most desirable in a candidate" and "Let me show I know what Im getting into".

With all that said, my first thought when you wrote "ADCOMS see clinical jobs as having limited utility" is should this always be the case? Feel free to disagree and Im not pretending like ADCOMs share my view, but I do think there is something to the idea of being in a clinical setting while also having responsibilities and not just being a passive shadower/volunteer.

To give one example of this, everybody says they love "working and interacting with patients" which is great as a volunteer when you have no responsibilities or when you are shadowing. But how does that change when you do have responsibilities and are interacting with patients in less glamorized ways such as a shadower/volunteer who just goes into patient rooms, asks them how they are feeling talks to them for 2 minutes, then leaves? Do you still enjoy the idea of working and interacting with such patients? Now scribing doesnt really allow for this, but one example of a job that might is a nursing assistant where you interact with the terminally ill and elderly, have to do jobs nobody else wants on them like butt wiping, does. And if someone comes out of that experience saying "I still enjoy the idea of working with patients" that to me personally carries a different level of meaning/weight than your typical premed saying this.

Really Im just giving one example of a clinical job where you are able to highlight characteristics that are ideal for a prospective candidate you might not be able to highlight to this degree otherwise. The specifics of an NA job and what they show arent important here. And I think the general point I made above of "Just because a job is in a hospital setting dont assume itll carry more weight" is the takeaway message. Still I do wonder if sometimes if ADCOMS go in with the general viewpoint "clinical jobs=limited utility" they might be less likely to see what I described above and how such a job could highlight favorable characteristics to such a degree you wouldnt otherwise. I do think there is value to characteristics like the one I described above and the degree to which they can be highlighted in a clinical job in ways you cant otherwise. We all know after all in relation to this ex, how many docs arent entirely satisfied with their career choice and the idea of "working with patients" being different than what they had expected being one key source of this lack of satisfaction.

 

[mimelim]

I'll start off by saying I think it's easy to confuse "showing I know what you are getting into in medicine" and trying to impress an school and "highlight characteristics that would be most desirable in a prospective candidate for med school". I agree for "showing" shadowing is better than scribing. A non clinical job could allow opportunities to highlight such skills/traits that would be most desirable in a prospective candidate than a clinical job. In other words, just putting yourself in a hospital doesnt merely highlight these qualities Im talking about and I think that's what gets losts on many. It's easy to mix the two ideas of "What job/position would highlight the traits most desirable in a candidate" and "Let me show I know what Im getting into".

With all that said, my first thought when you wrote "ADCOMS see clinical jobs as having limited utility" is should this always be the case? Feel free to disagree and Im not pretending like ADCOMs share my view, but I do think there is something to the idea of being in a clinical setting while also having responsibilities and not just being a passive shadower/volunteer.

To give one example of this, everybody says they love "working and interacting with patients" which is great as a volunteer when you have no responsibilities or when you are shadowing. But how does that change when you do have responsibilities and are interacting with patients in less glamorized ways such as a shadower/volunteer who just goes into patient rooms, asks them how they are feeling talks to them for 2 minutes, then leaves? Do you still enjoy the idea of working and interacting with such patients? Now scribing doesnt really allow for this, but one example of a job that might is a nursing assistant where you interact with the terminally ill and elderly, have to do jobs nobody else wants on them like butt wiping, does. And if someone comes out of that experience saying "I still enjoy the idea of working with patients" that to me personally carries a different level of meaning/weight than your typical premed saying this.

Really Im just giving one example of a clinical job where you are able to highlight characteristics that are ideal for a prospective candidate you might not be able to highlight to this degree otherwise. The specifics of an NA job and what they show arent important here. And I think the general point I made above of "Just because a job is in a hospital setting dont assume itll carry more weight" is the takeaway message. Still I do wonder if sometimes if ADCOMS go in with the general viewpoint "clinical jobs=limited utility" they might be less likely to see what I described above and how such a job could highlight favorable characteristics to such a degree you wouldnt otherwise. I do think there is value to characteristics like the one I described above and the degree to which they can be highlighted in a clinical job in ways you cant otherwise. We all know after all in relation to this ex, how many docs arent entirely satisfied with their career choice and the idea of "working with patients" being different than what they had expected being one key source of this lack of satisfaction.

I don't mean to diminish other medical jobs or their character building and experience deriving characteristics. I was talking with my wife yesterday and we both agreed that for both of us, working for a wage starting in high school going up until professional school was formative. It made us better future professionals simply by working. Having a boss, having co-workers, having defined responsibilities, etc. I think employment is an underestimated bonus for applicants.

I don't and I don't think most people see a huge amount of utility in the medical exposure compared to other things. Should that stuff be listed as employment, absolutely. But, you highlight my point. Just because it can be double counted as employment and "clinical experience", it isn't going to wow anyone.