How important is a school's reputation if I want to specialize?

[JPGator3]

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I'm currently interviewing at schools (some better than others) and I was wondering if anybody knows how important a school's reputation is when trying to specialize. Does it hurt to go to a less selective school? With Boards becoming pass/fail, will the school's reputation be the most important factor?

 

[HopefulDent]

For any school that does not use a pass/fail system, just be in the top 10% and you'll specialize.

 

[JPGator3]

bump

 

[allstardentist]

If you want to specialize, going to a school with good rep and doing well there should be the safest bet. There is no easy way of getting into a good specialty program. Low tier schools will have less competition while top tier schools will have more competition. However, Top tier schools also send more people to specialty programs.

 

[armorshell]

If you want to specialize, going to a school with good rep and doing well there should be the safest bet. There is no easy way of getting into a good specialty program. Low tier schools will have less competition while top tier schools will have more competition. However, Top tier schools also send more people to specialty programs.

Luckily, in this regard all schools have a good rep. Go wherever you want for dental school, work hard, do well on the boards (or whatever exam they have you taking then)and you'll be fine.

There's nothing one school will do for you another can't if you're not willing to do the above, and if you are then it doesn't matter

 

[yuppers]

Luckily, in this regard all schools have a good rep. Go wherever you want for dental school, work hard, do well on the boards (or whatever exam they have you taking then)and you'll be fine.

There's nothing one school will do for you another can't if you're not willing to do the above, and if you are then it doesn't matter

Are you talking about specialty tests (made that up for lack of a better term) since the boards are becoming p/f?

 

[sketo43]

For any school that does not use a pass/fail system, just be in the top 10% and you'll specialize.

you make it sound like being in the top 10% will be easy... from dental students I've talked to, I think a lot of people aim for this but don't make it

 

[ryanaj]

I agree with armorshell. Any dental school can get you into a specialty if you qualify yourself to do a specialty. Getting into a specialty program is a lot like getting into D-school. You have to hang around with the specialists at your school (or if you don't have any then you have to find some) be a likable person the entire time you are at school so that you can get good letters of recommendation, etc... I say go where you are most comfortable and the school's environment fits the type of student that you are. For example, if you are a gunner you probably don't want to go to a pass fail school because they look down on that (the whole reason they are pass fail). If you work well in groups and want your colleagues to succeed and fail with you then go to a pass fail. I know here at Case there a few gunners and they definitely stick out in a bad way and would probably have a hard time getting letters even though they do well on the tests. So keep that in mind if you have schools you get to choose between.

 

[HopefulDent]

you make it sound like being in the top 10% will be easy... from dental students I've talked to, I think a lot of people aim for this but don't make it

I don't think in any way will this be an easy task. What i was trying to imply is that regardless of the school you go to, if you can manage to stay in the top 10% you are in more than good standing to apply to specialty programs.

 

[allstardentist]

You don't necessarily have to be in top 10% to get into competitive specialty program if you go to harvard, columbia, ucla, and few other schools. In fact, top 25%-30% in some of these schools could get you into decent specialty programs

 

[pinetar321]

ryan, Columbia is a pass/fail school and I'm pretty sure they have some very motivated gunners going for the "honors" distinction. Also, they have a great specialization rate, like the previous poster said.

 

[lazybummy]

ryan, Columbia is a pass/fail school and I'm pretty sure they have some very motivated gunners going for the "honors" distinction. Also, they have a great specialization rate, like the previous poster said.

Even tho it's all pass/fail, Columbia students are ranked through an internal system.

 

[armorshell]

You don't necessarily have to be in top 10% to get into competitive specialty program if you go to harvard, columbia, ucla, and few other schools. In fact, top 25%-30% in some of these schools could get you into decent specialty programs

Also at any other school in the country for that matter, with a good boards score.

 

[allstardentist]

Also at any other school in the country for that matter, with a good boards score.

That is true. Of course, with a good board score, what school one attends will probably won't matter. However, the OP is assuming that the Boards will be pass/fail when he/she attends.

Let's say there are person A and person B. They both have identical stats, personality and everything. The only difference between them is the school they attend. Person A goes to Harvard and person B goes to UOP. Which student do you think most specialty programs will choose? Why?

 

[allstardentist]

Also at any other school in the country for that matter, with a good boards score.

That is true. Of course, with a good board score, what school one attends will probably won't matter. However, the OP is assuming that the Boards will be pass/fail when he/she attends.

Let's say there are person A and person B. They both have identical stats, personality and everything. The only difference between them is the school they attend. Person A goes to Harvard and person B goes to UOP. Which student do you think most specialty programs will choose? Why?

 

[allstardentist]

That is true. Of course, with a good board score, what school one attends will probably won't matter. However, the OP is assuming that the Boards will be pass/fail when he/she attends.

Let's say there are person A and person B. They both have identical stats, personality and everything. The only difference between them is the school they attend. Person A goes to Harvard and person B goes to UOP. Which student do you think most specialty programs will choose? Why?

 

[allstardentist]

Also at any other school in the country for that matter, with a good boards score.

That is true. Of course, with a good board score, what school one attends will probably won't matter. However, the OP is assuming that the Boards will be pass/fail when he/she attends.

Let's say there are person A and person B. They both have identical stats, personality and everything. The only difference between them is the school they attend. Person A goes to Harvard and person B goes to UOP. Which student do you think most specialty programs will choose? Why?

 

[pinetar321]

whoa there, cowboy ,quadruple post

 

[armorshell]

That is true. Of course, with a good board score, what school one attends will probably won't matter. However, the OP is assuming that the Boards will be pass/fail when he/she attends.

Let's say there are person A and person B. They both have identical stats, personality and everything. The only difference between them is the school they attend. Person A goes to Harvard and person B goes to UOP. Which student do you think most specialty programs will choose? Why?

That would probably depend on the program director's own personality and outlook. Some of you might find it surprising (I did) that Pacific specifically has a good reputation among residency directors (for OMFS at least). The constant rhetoric from this website, despite my aversion to it, had even me believing that my school would be looked down on. Quite the opposite was true.

In this line of thinking, some program directors will have had mostly positive experiences with students from certain schools, some will have had strong negative experiences. You're chances at a specific school could strongly depend on the strength of a recent student from your school who attended the program. If we're discounting all other factors, I'd say the individual directors experience with graduates of the school's program is going to be far more important than "prestige", which tends to be something usually only pre-dents are concerned with.

 

[allstardentist]

Sorry about the quadruple posts, something was wrong with my internet.

Anyway, in regard to armorshell's post, that is part of what I am talking about. Isn't that how a reputation of a school is partly built upon? i.e. how well students from a certain school do in the outside world? You are admitting that going to a different school have an impact on your chance of getting into specialty programs. That is one of the two reasons why almost every harvard students are placed into specialty programs even though the school doesn't have a true class ranking. (the other reason being most of them having a high board score)

 

[armorshell]

Sorry about the quadruple posts, something was wrong with my internet.

Anyway, in regard to armorshell's post, that is part of what I am talking about. Isn't that how a reputation of a school is partly built upon? i.e. how well students from a certain school do in the outside world? You are admitting that going to a different school have an impact on your chance of getting into specialty programs.

You're absolutely right, but the point you're missing is a pre-dents perception of reputation is going to be very different than a program director's.

That is one of the two reasons why almost every harvard students are placed into specialty programs even though the school doesn't have a true class ranking. (the other reason being most of them having a high board score)

Two comments:

1. The second reason you stated (at this time) can't really be separated from the first, and on face value seems far more important.

2. Harvard indisputably has an excellent tradition of sending students into specialties. I however believe if those students completed their DDS at any other school in the country, they still would be able to specialize. Because they're excellent, motivated students from the start. They have to be to get in. Similarly, if you took the guy who was last in your class, and ran them through Harvard's program, I can guarantee they'd have about as much luck getting into Ortho as they would at their original school.

 

[allstardentist]

You're absolutely right, but the point you're missing is a pre-dents perception of reputation is going to be very different than a program director's.

However, the fact is that school reputation DOES play a role which is the answer to OP's question.

[/QUOTE]
Two comments:

1. The second reason you stated (at this time) can't really be separated from the first, and on face value seems far more important.

2. Harvard indisputably has an excellent tradition of sending students into specialties. I however believe if those students completed their DDS at any other school in the country, they still would be able to specialize. Because they're excellent, motivated students from the start. They have to be to get in. Similarly, if you took the guy who was last in your class, and ran them through Harvard's program, I can guarantee they'd have about as much luck getting into Ortho as they would at their original school.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with both examples. In the first example, if one gets his/her DDS from harvard, he will have a greater CHANCE of getting into top ortho programs than if that same person got his DDS from somewhere else. It is possible that it might not have an effect, but I would take my chance with Harvard DDS than any other school DDS. Same with the second example; as long as the person passes his/her classes, he will have a greater chance of getting into some kind of specialty program than elsewhere.

Armorshell may still not disagree, but I will end my discussion here.

To the OP: Reputation may play a role but there are more important factors such as class ranking and boards scores. Therefore, even if you don't get into schools that sends a lot of students to specialty programs, you still have a very good chance of getting into a program of your choice at other schools as long as you do well in class and on the boards.

 

[armorshell]

However, the fact is that school reputation DOES play a role which is the answer to OP's question.

I've maintained that all along, but my point is that it's not the reputation that most people think about when they're applying to schools that matters, and even going to a school with a 'good' reputation could be fraught with danger. If your life's goal was to go to Parkland OMFS (Widely considered to be one of the best OMFS programs), going to Harvard for dental school could be a huge mistake (out of 25 residents, none are from Harvard, and none will be this year).

This isn't the case most places of course, that's just an extreme example.

I disagree with both examples. In the first example, if one gets his/her DDS from harvard, he will have a greater CHANCE of getting into top ortho programs than if that same person got his DDS from somewhere else. It is possible that it might not have an effect, but I would take my chance with Harvard DDS than any other school DDS. Same with the second example; as long as the person passes his/her classes, he will have a greater chance of getting into some kind of specialty program than elsewhere.

Aye there's the rub. Even if there was a significant difference in the "specialization chance" that an individual could get from different schools

(As an aside, the education literature strongly suggests there isn't at all levels of education from pre-school up:

Stacy Berg Dale & Alan B. Krueger, 2002. "Estimating The Payoff To Attending A More Selective College: An Application Of Selection On Observables And Unobservables," The Quarterly Journal of Economics, MIT Press, vol. 117(4), pages 1491-1527, November.

Gaining Access to Selective Elementary Schools Gaining Ground? Evidence from Randomized Lotteries, Julie Berry Cullen, Brian A. Jacob, in NBER book The Problems of Disadvantaged Youth: An Economic Perspective (2007)

The Effect of School Choice on Student Outcomes: Evidence from Randomized Lotteries. Julie Berry Cullen, Brian A. Jacob, and Steven Levitt
NBER Working Paper No. 10113
November 2003
JEL No. I28, H72)

then what is the quantitative value of that "leg up?" Is it 1%? 10%? 20%? Is it worth paying an extra $100,000 for your undergrad dental education (Which becomes slightly less important, since you plan to pursue specialty training) worth to gain such a slight advantage (Which, as mentioned, probably doesn't exist.)

Armorshell may still not disagree, but I will end my discussion here.

I definitely don't not disagree!

To the OP: Reputation may play a role but there are more important factors such as class ranking and boards scores. Therefore, even if you don't get into schools that sends a lot of students to specialty programs, you still have a very good chance of getting into a program of your choice at other schools as long as you do well in class and on the boards.

To the OP: Inform yourself. Read a few of those articles I posted, and maybe you'll realize if you're good enough to specialize, you'll do it from Harvard, Howard, your state school, or wherever you want to go. Other factors such as cost and location are far more important in the decision process. Maybe you won't. 🙂

 

[Aceofspades]

Well, going to a school with a good specialization rate can really be a payoff. Say one goes to their state school, saving money. It may seem like a smart move, but what if they don't get into their precious Ortho or OMFS residency and have to do a 1 year GPR or internship year. Now, because of that gap year they lose an entire year of specialty income. If they saved 100K by going to their state school, but lost 250K in income because of their gap year then did they actually save money? It looks to me like they lost 100K (saved 100K, gained 50K from GPR, lost 250K in income).

Consider another senario: The state school person gets into their specialty program but is not competitive enough for a 2 year program and has to attend a more expensive 3 year Ortho program. Once again, they lose a year of specialty income.

Even worse, the state school person is not competitive enough for Ortho straight out of dental school. He then does a 1 year GPR but still is not competitive enough for a 2 year program. He attends an expensive 3 year program and loses two years of specialty income.

I'm not saying that this is guaranteed to occur, but it might. Even worse, the state school person may never get into their specialty program. Of course this can happen with any school, but the chances are much less likely coming from Harvard.

 

[TedyBearSuicide]

Even worse, the state school person may never get into their specialty program. Of course this can happen with any school, but the chances are much less likely coming from Harvard.

You present the information as if the program directors offer residency invitations to Harvard graduates on a platinum platter. With your reasoning, it is safe to assume that a Harvard graduate can get into a prestigious residency program simply by doing just enough to walk across the stage on graudation day; heck they don't even have to study for the boards nor participate in any externships, research, community service, etc. All they have to do is ace the DAT, GPA, participate in some undergraduate research and enroll into Harvard Dental and graduate.