How Important Is Partnership?

[BLADEMDA]

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2k for 7-3 is very common. I know of countless prior contracts at that rate amongst many of my colleagues. That said, the voices on this board who have to PAY for locums (either directly or through an AMC) will exaggerate rates downward for obvious reasons.

I work in an extremely competitive environment where there are tons of part timers looking for work. Even in that type of environment the rate is still over $200 per hour for daytime work. Typically, the work is easy for that money as well and never 1:4 coverage.

I would expect locums rates to be in the $250-$300 per hour through an agency minimum. The lower rate of $200-$225 per hour is for direct group to individual contracts.

FYI, partnership hourly rates should exceed $250 per hour W-2 in most well run groups. So, that’s $250 per hour with a fat benefit package. Yes, you have to do some nights and weekends but the time spent in the hospital is well compensated.

 

[dannyboy1]

I thought you were in PP?? Why the move to an AMC?


330k is kinda low, especially when youre assuming the person is working 40 hours per week for FIFTY TWO WEEKS per year.. AKA year round...

I’m assuming there is PTO (if a W2 position). You should get paid for this. if you don’t get paid it is not PTO just unemployment.....

 

[deleted941485]

AMCs can start you at 400k.
I get your point.

On the other side, negotiate a % buyout for “time served” if you end up getting sold mid partnership. If they say no, then walk.

We had several like that when we merged. We gave them a very fat retention bonus.

We did not have to, but we did as it is fair and the least we could do. If the group is unwilling then, you should smell greed in the air and walk.

That was nice if you.

My first employer told me to take the MGMA survey data and stick it you know where. I guess it’s just my bad luck and lack of options.

 

[nimbus]

Do any of the pre-sale partners regret the decision now? Volumes and unit values have just kept rising in the last few years. The sky didn’t fall.

My bad. The sky did fall.

 

[ambiturner]

Well if it makes you feel better, the guys that sold out are now having their pay unilaterally cut by the AMCs against contract, or potentially being laid off. So the ‘security’ of employment was BS too.

 

[okayplayer]

Well if it makes you feel better, the guys that sold out are now having their pay unilaterally cut by the AMCs against contract, or potentially being laid off. So the ‘security’ of employment was BS too.

But do they get to keep their buyout?

 

[IMGASMD]

But do they get to keep their buyout?

Win win. Now I can retire and save the mothership even more money!

 

[GA8314]

I am very glad I took a partner track. 2 years, close to 700k buy in from what partners made those 2 years.
Now, as owner, I have a strong say in things. Being at the table is priceless. As owners, we call the shots. That said, we still need to navigate contracts and other headaches. But, it's worth it. Make a great income and crazy vacation time. Also, the security that comes with it.

 

[bobg504]

I left a partnership after buy out. It's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. Running super lean, to the point where you rearly have breaks sucks. Having to beg to be off for important family events and working as hard or harder than residency sucks. I work locums now, full time, make more than I did as a partner (certainly more than i did after the AMC buy out) with complete control over my business and my schedule. I wish i had done it sooner.

 

[IMGASMD]

I left a partnership after buy out. It's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. Running super lean, to the point where you rearly have breaks sucks. Having to beg to be off for important family events and working as hard or harder than residency sucks. I work locums now, full time, make more than I did as a partner (certainly more than i did after the AMC buy out) with complete control over my business and my schedule. I wish i had done it sooner.

I think it depends where you are in life. I have little ones at home. I do want to be at one place for a while, for them and me.

If I was younger or they were older, I’d think a locum life style is fine.

 

[Mman]

I left a partnership after buy out. It's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. Running super lean, to the point where you rearly have breaks sucks. Having to beg to be off for important family events and working as hard or harder than residency sucks. I work locums now, full time, make more than I did as a partner (certainly more than i did after the AMC buy out) with complete control over my business and my schedule. I wish i had done it sooner.

that's a function of a particular job, not a function of being a partner or not.

 

[bobg504]

that's a function of a particular job, not a function of being a partner or not.

I agree. My situation got pretty terrible, but notwithstanding that, in an employed model or partnership model, you rarely have much control over your schedule nor can you completely work on your own terms. The other issue is that real "private" practice is gookg away. So many AMC have taken over that it's hard to fine. By in large, you will be taken advantage of of you work at any AMC.

 

[deleted162650]

you rarely have much control over your schedule

Thats not true. Both my previous gig and current gig allow for plenty of control over one’s schedule. Again, it’s just a factor of group structure/priorities/camaraderie and has nothing to do with PP partner v employee.

 

[MikeMerk-MtS]

I agree. My situation got pretty terrible, but notwithstanding that, in an employed model or partnership model, you rarely have much control over your schedule nor can you completely work on your own terms. The other issue is that real "private" practice is gookg away. So many AMC have taken over that it's hard to fine. By in large, you will be taken advantage of of you work at any AMC.

What do you mean they take advantage of you? ... Compensation? Time?

 

[IMGASMD]

What do you mean they take advantage of you? ... Compensation? Time?

Both?
All the AMCs’ contracts I’ve seen so far does not specify how much you really work. It’s okay when you’re staffed correctly. But when you’re short, you’re SOL. The CRNA is paid by the hour, if I am also just an employee, why do they get OT and I do not?
I’ve tried to push for more specific language, like hours (40) then OT, or equally divided (no better/worse than more senior guys)..... they may move a little or just say it’s a standard contract that everyone signs.

 

[deleted162650]

but do private practice contracts?

Typically no, but then you’re a business owner, not an employee. Different ballgame.

 

[IMGASMD]

Fair, but I know for a fact that there are AMCs (in NY) who do compensate on an hourly basis with 6+ weeks of vacation. But yes you are right, they don’t outline the total hours you work... but do private practice contracts?

Are you talking about mommy tracks? There are jobs out there you do 40 hours, no more no less. Because they don’t pay you for overtime, or all the calls are taken by old partners.

I think it’s all fair game, as long as there are no deceits... but with a big corporation, with all the resources behind them. It’s hard to win anything. That being said, if you feel you’re getting a “fair” deal, then go for it.

Typically no, but then you’re a business owner, not an employee. Different ballgame.

Agree totally. But it’s harder and harder to educate the residents about the business aspect, or they just don’t want to run the business anymore. Or the old partners looking for the last cash out as their retirement.... and a good/fair pp are harder and harder to come by.

 

[deleted697127]

Legit question: for those of you who are pro-private practice, what are your reasons (besides not working for a big corporation)? A lot of the partners I talk to are in their 60s still taking a decent amount of call and their compensation isn't that much higher than mine.

Let’s me do my own cases, pick my own case mix, change my schedule how I’d like to (ie simply log on to schedule, pick day off, have that day off), scale my workload up or down. My hustle is appreciated by the staff, the surgeons, and with pay. Eat what you kill not only seems fair for compensation but is also really efficient. It cuts out the incentive for people to drag their feet to avoid getting ad ons. People look out for each other and are more likely to not mind getting add ons because they are getting appropriately compensated. People don’t mind finishing their cases even if it’s 5pm on a Friday. You probably can do some of this stuff in other staffing models but I’m pretty satisfied with our set up.