How important is ranking for OMFS? & externship before CBSE?

[nicole2]

I'm a D3 and I just checked my ranking and it's in the bottom 25% 🙁 I'm trying my best to bring it up by the end of D3 year. When I asked around at my school, people who matched to OMFS residency at my school weren't top students. Someone matched to one of the top residency program and he was also bottom 25%. I heard that personality REALLY matters. is that true? What kind of personality? like being arrogant?

With my low ranking, should I even bother preparing for the CBSE in February?

Also, is it better to do externship when I have CBSE score? I'm assuming they will be asking about the CBSE score when I extern. If it doesn't matter, then I'm thinking about spending all 4 weeks of my winter break to extern.

Thank you in advance!

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[caffeine jitters]

Why is it that you want to apply to OMFS? What about the field interests you?

 

[rotichawal]

I didn't have a super high rank (~50th %tile), took a leap of faith and matched. That being said, there's quite a few things to unpack in your post.

people who matched to OMFS residency at my school weren't top students

Highly doubt. Yes, you don't necessarily have to be top 10 but the vast, vast majority of people who have matched were either P/F or much higher class ranked then I was.

I heard that personality REALLY matters

Personality does matter when you get an interview. You will not get an interview with personality alone without the stats.

arrogant

No. God, no.

With my low ranking, should I even bother preparing for the CBSE in February?

The CBSE was my salvation so this is probably where my personal bias comes in. You should consider why it was that your class rank was so low to begin with, without BS-ing yourself. If you truly had mitigating circumstances for your rank (and you'd better because PD's will 100% ask you in your interviews and will 100% see through BS), and you know those circumstances won't hinder your CBSE process, go for it, you don't have much to lose besides money, time, and sanity. You will however need to score exceptionally high most likely (probably high 80's+). In my personal case, a strong score got me interviews, but still at a relatively low percentage out of the total programs I applied to. Also, you will have to apply to many tens of programs and can have pretty much no standards when it comes to matching. And prepare yourself for non-cat years, etc. etc.

As far as externships go, I think one I applied for asked for CBSE scores but I don't think the majority do. I never ended going to any externships b/c COVID, so YMMV.

Not trying to sound pessimistic, but this is the reality. The pre-OMFS process is a beatdown for most people, and was multiply so for me and the other class-rank challenged applicants.

 

[bergus95]

I didn't have a super high rank (~50th %tile), took a leap of faith and matched. That being said, there's quite a few things to unpack in your post.



Highly doubt. Yes, you don't necessarily have to be top 10 but the vast, vast majority of people who have matched were either P/F or much higher class ranked then I was.



Personality does matter when you get an interview. You will not get an interview with personality alone without the stats.



No. God, no.


The CBSE was my salvation so this is probably where my personal bias comes in. You should consider why it was that your class rank was so low to begin with, without BS-ing yourself. If you truly had mitigating circumstances for your rank (and you'd better because PD's will 100% ask you in your interviews and will 100% see through BS), and you know those circumstances won't hinder your CBSE process, go for it, you don't have much to lose besides money, time, and sanity. You will however need to score exceptionally high most likely (probably high 80's+). In my personal case, a strong score got me interviews, but still at a relatively low percentage out of the total programs I applied to. Also, you will have to apply to many tens of programs and can have pretty much no standards when it comes to matching. And prepare yourself for non-cat years, etc. etc.

As far as externships go, I think one I applied for asked for CBSE scores but I don't think the majority do. I never ended going to any externships b/c COVID, so YMMV.

Not trying to sound pessimistic, but this is the reality. The pre-OMFS process is a beatdown for most people, and was multiply so for me and the other class-rank challenged applicants.

Accurate.

 

[rotichawal]

I'm not a resident but I had the opportunity to talk to many OMFS residents and not all of them were on top of their class. Some did not even score very high in CBSE. But I also know people who matched with >80 in CBSE. I am a firm believer that class rank does not define one's knowledge and, let's be honest, many people take shortcuts to get ahead. I also never understood how they compare applicants from pass/fail programs to those who are ranked. If I were a PD I would look for people with a complex profile, who put more effort during their DMD program than obtaining a 4.0 GPA. I would be more interested in hearing a story about someone who showed an early interest in the field and got involved, someone who is persistent and empathetic. OMFS residency is quite demanding.

I hear you, especially regarding P/F. I also know that there were a great many applicants with that high class ranking who took no shortcuts, showed early interest, and were persistent and empathetic, it largely is the cream of the crop who match. Not being a stellar applicant doesn't mean you won't be a stellar resident (at least I hope so for my own sake lol), but I found managing my expectations to be the best strategy going into this whole process and I hope I conveyed that to OP.

 

[SilkyJ]

I am not a resident but I had the opportunity to talk to many OMFS residents and not all of them were on top of their class. Some did not even score very high in CBSE. But I also know people who matched with >80 in CBSE. I am a firm believer that class rank does not define one's knowledge and, let's be honest, many people take shortcuts to get ahead. I also never understood how they compare applicants from pass/fail programs to those who are ranked. If I were a PD I would look for people with a complex profile, who put more effort during their DMD program than obtaining a 4.0 GPA. But I am not.

Well, the reality is that most successful applicants have a good class rank and reasonable CBSE. When a PD gets a couple hundred applications, they don’t have time to carefully dig through your “complex profile” to figure you out.

If you come from a P/F school, your CBSE needs to be at least decent, or you’re going to struggle to get interviews.

You don’t need to be the absolute top of your class, but it’s tough out there.

 

[bergus95]

I am not a resident but I had the opportunity to talk to many OMFS residents and not all of them were on top of their class. Some did not even score very high in CBSE. But I also know people who matched with >80 in CBSE. I am a firm believer that class rank does not define one's knowledge and, let's be honest, many people take shortcuts to get ahead. I also never understood how they compare applicants from pass/fail programs to those who are ranked. If I were a PD I would look for people with a complex profile, who put more effort during their DMD program than obtaining a 4.0 GPA. But I am not.

They do

 

[nade0016]

Hmmm, I like the discussion here. Great comments by all. As a PD I do not disagrees with too much here. I do take issue with the arrogant comment in the original question. If you are arrogant I will not take you in my program. Confident and humble sure but arrogant residents usually end up isolated and not enjoying residency. If I have an arrogant resident I will make it my job to break that out of them. That is not who I want representing me to other faculty, staff, employees, etc. As an example, last year I "no ranked" one candidate due to their arrogance in the interview process, arrogance is tough to hide for an entire day. Also, not this same person, but if a candidate disparages or speaks poorly about other programs, faculty, etc. They will also not be ranked for my program. All programs want good hearted, hard working, self starters, who understand that they know very little and are ready to jump in and learn everything they can.

As for someone who is under 50% in the class rank the process will be a competition but if you see yourself as a David against Goliath's and keep that attitude you can succeed. You are being compared to those who have succeeded in dental school while also focusing on trying to set up a good application for residency. So there will need to a good reason for the lower GPA/Rank. Use a stellar CBSE score to prove the class rank is not a true representative of your knowledge and ability.

 

[Xtract]

I am not a resident but I had the opportunity to talk to many OMFS residents and not all of them were on top of their class. Some did not even score very high in CBSE. But I also know people who matched with >80 in CBSE. I am a firm believer that class rank does not define one's knowledge and, let's be honest, many people take shortcuts to get ahead. I also never understood how they compare applicants from pass/fail programs to those who are ranked. If I were a PD I would look for people with a complex profile, who put more effort during their DMD program than obtaining a 4.0 GPA. But I am not.

Very well said. One of the top ranked students at our program always found 'shortcuts', until they met the CBSE. I'm sure PDs and those evaluating our applications are very smart, can see through the BS, and know when something doesn't add up.

 

[702]

Very well said. One of the top ranked students at our program always found 'shortcuts', until they met the CBSE. I'm sure PDs and those evaluating our applications are very smart, can see through the BS, and know when something doesn't add up.

Except there are shortcuts to the CBSE as well.

 

[DimitriH]

Except there are shortcuts to the CBSE as well.

Shortcuts? What do you mean?

 

[Xtract]

Except there are shortcuts to the CBSE as well.

as of recently due to COVID.. yes. And it's really frustrating hearing some stories. However, the CBSE is no joke and you need to know the information inside and out in order to do well.

 

[tallnlanky]

as of recently due to COVID.. yes. And it's really frustrating hearing some stories. However, the CBSE is no joke and you need to know the information inside and out in order to do well.

Can you explain how there can be a short cut to the CBSE due to COVID?

 

[Xtract]

Can you explain how there can be a short cut to the CBSE due to COVID?

Of course man - watch pathoma and re-watch chapters 1-3 before your CBSE

 

[tallnlanky]

Of course man - watch pathoma and re-watch chapters 1-3 before your CBSE

How is pathoma a short cut? Sure, the material is curated for high yield information - but what Is the alternative? Memorizing the entire Robbins textbook?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Memorizing the entire Robbins textbook?

That's what winners do.



Big Hoss

 

[OMFSLife123]

How is pathoma a short cut? Sure, the material is curated for high yield information - but what Is the alternative? Memorizing the entire Robbins textbook?

He is being sarcastic. I *think* there was an implication that some taking the test later in the testing period were being filled in on test material from those who took it earlier. Unfortunately, he's not the only one who has heard the whispers of those stories.