How important is Spanish proficiency?

[med_heidelberg]

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Does fluency in Spanish significantly help get into your desired residency, especially if it's in a big city? Im already studying in german, but I assume that won't be very helpful in the US. I studied Spanish awhile ago and lived in South America for a summer. At that time, I was fluent, but I basically forgot it all after I learned German. I think I could pick it back up if I were immersed in a Spanish speaking country again. Is it worth it doing an away rotation in Spain? I think I could set that up pretty easily through my university. Does anyone have experience with that and did it help your application?

 

[Faebinder]

Does fluency in Spanish significantly help get into your desired residency, especially if it's in a big city? Im already studying in german, but I assume that won't be very helpful in the US. I studied Spanish awhile ago and lived in South America for a summer. At that time, I was fluent, but I basically forgot it all after I learned German. I think I could pick it back up if I were immersed in a Spanish speaking country again. Is it worth it doing an away rotation in Spain? I think I could set that up pretty easily through my university. Does anyone have experience with that and did it help your application?

One program in puerto rico told me up front they wont take anyone who doesn't speak spanish. So I would say it's importance is regional based and overall it's moderate to weak importance (certainly not as important as your scores or rank or where you graduated from).

PS: It was kinda funny, the program sent a reply in spanish to my english email. I copied/pasted the reply on babelfish to translate it.

 

[MacGyver]

Well of course I expect PR to use all spanish.

However, in Florida you need spanish too. There are surgical practices and residency programs in Florida that operate on 90% spanish and they will not take you unless you speak spanish

 

[Mumpu]

If you plan to train/practice in the US, knowing Spanish would be of huge benefit.

 

[mlw03]

this topic has been discussed a lot - take a look at the specific specialty you want, as that can matter somewhat. the only specialty i can't see it helping in would be path. but it can also be very specific and something you'll only know by asking a particular program directly. for example, at my med school ob-gyn residents deal with a very high percentage of spanish-only patients at our primary L&D site. but i'm in florida. however a particular program may feel about ranking you based on language ability, consider that if you don't speak it fluently and you'll be dealing with a lot of such patients, it's going to make your day to day life a real pain in the butt and much slower when you have to hunt for a translator multiple times every day.

so the main point i'm trying to make is to do some program-specific inquiring about their patient populations.

 

[mlw03]

this topic has been discussed a lot - take a look at the specific specialty you want, as that can matter somewhat. the only specialty i can't see it helping in would be path. but it can also be very specific and something you'll only know by asking a particular program directly. for example, at my med school ob-gyn residents deal with a very high percentage of spanish-only patients at our primary L&D site. but i'm in florida. however a particular program may feel about ranking you based on language ability, consider that if you don't speak it fluently and you'll be dealing with a lot of such patients, it's going to make your day to day life a real pain in the butt and much slower when you have to hunt for a translator multiple times every day.

so the main point i'm trying to make is to do some program-specific inquiring about their patient populations.

 

[toofache32]

If you plan to train/practice in the US, knowing Spanish would be of huge benefit.

If you live in the US, knowing English would be a huge benefit.

 

[med_heidelberg]

Hi thanks for the replies. I think it would be worth it to invest the time in re-learning Spanish, especially after reading that some programs in FL (and probably Texas and CA?) rely on Spanish and a lot of patients wont speak fluent English. Good point about inquiring about specific patient populations. I learned German pretty quickly, and Spanish is a lot simpler of a language, so I think I can pick it up again without a problem. Just have to find the time to do an away rotation in Spain!

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Well of course I expect PR to use all spanish.

However, in Florida you need spanish too. There are surgical practices and residency programs in Florida that operate on 90% spanish and they will not take you unless you speak spanish

Is cleveland clinic Fl, one of these spanish programs?????

 

[mig26x]

I did an externship at Jackson Memorial Hosp in Miami, FL, and ALL the patients that were assigned to me were spanish speaking. So yes, in FL spanish is very important.

 

[njbmd]

Does fluency in Spanish significantly help get into your desired residency, especially if it's in a big city? Im already studying in german, but I assume that won't be very helpful in the US. I studied Spanish awhile ago and lived in South America for a summer. At that time, I was fluent, but I basically forgot it all after I learned German. I think I could pick it back up if I were immersed in a Spanish speaking country again. Is it worth it doing an away rotation in Spain? I think I could set that up pretty easily through my university. Does anyone have experience with that and did it help your application?

It is not so much that you need to be fluent in Spanish for most urban areas but it's going to be helpful for residencies in border states or any state that has high Spanish-speaking populations like California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Florida. If you anticipate that you desired residency is in a large city or serves a large Spanish-speaking population, having spanish fluency is gong to be desirable. Do you have to do an away rotation in Spain? No, not unless you were planing to do the rotation in the first place.

With the large number of spanish-speaking immigrants, Spanish is going to be a far mor useful than French, German or other languages. You can always take a medical Spanish course and refresh your knowledge. If you want to go to Spain, do so, but not because you believe it's going to pad your application.

 

[LADoc00]

Didnt someone publish a study where the need for Spanish fluency was inversely proportional to the amount you were compensated?

 

[Whodathunkit]

I did an externship at Jackson Memorial Hosp in Miami, FL, and ALL the patients that were assigned to me were spanish speaking. So yes, in FL spanish is very important.

You think it had anything to do with the fact that you're from Puerto Rico?

 

[LADoc00]

It is not so much that you need to be fluent in Spanish for most urban areas but it's going to be helpful for residencies in border states or any state that has high Spanish-speaking populations like California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Florida. If you anticipate that you desired residency is in a large city or serves a large Spanish-speaking population, having spanish fluency is gong to be desirable. Do you have to do an away rotation in Spain? No, not unless you were planing to do the rotation in the first place.

With the large number of spanish-speaking immigrants, Spanish is going to be a far mor useful than French, German or other languages. You can always take a medical Spanish course and refresh your knowledge. If you want to go to Spain, do so, but not because you believe it's going to pad your application.

Spanish speaking actually can be important EVEN in non-patient based specialities like Path. My business often receives letters and phone calls in Spanish telling us to stop billing because they cant pay for the services...might be helpful to decrease your %rate that goes to collections.

 

[Sebastian.]

Didnt someone publish a study where the need for Spanish fluency was inversely proportional to the amount you were compensated?

Sounds about right.

 

[Leukocyte]

I do not know, but there was a published study which showed that:

-the Spanish-speaking population in the US is the FASTEST growing population in the USA.....

So yes, knowing spanish is very helpful (will make your life easier) if you are working in a major city....Definately in Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx, Miami.........

 

[mdnsw]

Didnt someone publish a study where the need for Spanish fluency was inversely proportional to the amount you were compensated?

Of course compensation is lower in Spanish areas since most people who speak only Spanish steal their heathcare. At least your local contractors and/or farmers are getting rich exploiting them at our expense.

 

[LADoc00]

Of course compensation is lower in Spanish areas since most people who speak only Spanish steal their heathcare. At least your local contractors and/or farmers are getting rich exploiting them at our expense.

YEP. Im mildly entertained when the rich agribiz tycoons in California dump a carload of Spanish speakers off at the emergency room to get the free care. They head back to their multimillion estates laughing the entire way thinking "Damn, gotta love those Spanish speaking docs and nurses..."

 

[LADoc00]

I do not know, but there was a published study which showed that:

-the Spanish-speaking population in the US is the FASTEST growing population in the USA.....

So yes, knowing spanish is very helpful (will make your life easier) if you are working in a major city....Definately in Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx, Miami.........

Make your life easier while failing to pay your overhead?? You lost me there. Yes, speaking Spanish is great if you are working for free. I totally agree.

a comparable analogy might be "Putting a bullet in your head will...make your life more simple."

 

[MacGyver]

If you live in the US, knowing English would be a huge benefit.

Exactly.

There are huge numbers of FMGs that can barely speak English yet program directors have no problem taking them because they want that federal $$$$

 

[mig26x]

You think it had anything to do with the fact that you're from Puerto Rico?

I dont think so, during that month I think that our everyday census was 80% spanish speaking population. I remembered one time been a translator for a cardiology fellow who was gonna performed a cath procedure on one of our patients. And one of our PGy2 also wasnt very fluent in spanish so i helped him with the hispanics admissions.

The funny thing is that the american medical students from UM speak very good spanish!! the three of them!!

 

[mdnsw]

I do not know, but there was a published study which showed that:

-the Spanish-speaking population in the US is the FASTEST growing population in the USA.....

So yes, knowing spanish is very helpful (will make your life easier) if you are working in a major city....Definately in Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx, Miami.........

Sure it will make your life easier unless your hospital closes because they can't make a profit when an ever increasing portion of their population is made up of illegal immigrants who don't pay for their heathcare. Haven't like 80 hospitals closed in California alone based largely on this issue?

 

[LADoc00]

Sure it will make your life easier unless your hospital closes because they can't make a profit when an ever increasing portion of their population is made up of illegal immigrants who don't pay for their heathcare. Haven't like 80 hospitals closed in California alone based largely on this issue?

Just happened in the supposedly wealthy California bay area..all that tech money and Doctors Hospital in San Pablo is going out of business. Guess all that Spanish speaking expertise doesnt pay the bills!!

 

[jocg27]

Reading this, it's apparent that "Spanish-speaking" carries a lot of baggage with it, and makes people make a lot of assumptions that might cause them to miss part of the truth. I think it's very important to note that as the Spanish-speaking population rapidly grows, it also rapidly begins to include not only more and more people, but more and more types of people.

As the Spanish-speaking population grows exponentially, so is the Spanish speaking population born and raised here, and having kids here...You can't equate Spanish speaking with illegal once families have been here for multiple generations...

Furthermore, as the Spanish-speaking population grows exponentially, so is the Spanish speaking middle class. And there is a growing Spanish-speaking middle class...Whatever you happen to think, they do work, and they do save, and their purchasing power by any economic measure is increasing at a far greater rate than any other group -- this isn't only a product of their growing sheer numbers. As they become more established here, you can't equate Spanish speaking with poor laborer.

My family came to this country from Cuba. My grandfather was educated, and a physician. He has seen tens of thousands of children as patients over 40 years practicing here. Many of these children were Spanish-speaking, many were English-speaking, and plenty of other first languages were represented as well. He is a legally naturalized citizen, and arrived fully legally, on an airplane. He has voted in every election since he's been able to do so. He loves this country, and he thinks Chicago is the best city in the world and for years has said he'd never live anywhere else. They have invested wisely and saved well and have quality insurance. They made sure their family was well educated, spoke both English and Spanish well, and loved both the United States they were born in and the heritage of their parents and grandparents. Nobody but the most hardass nativist would argue they are anything other than American, in the true melting pot, e pluribus unum sense.

That said, although he was educated and bilingual, and succeeded in the American medical establishment, English is not his language. He knew English and communicated with it, but when you learn a language as an adult, it simply will never become the language you think, love, or dream in. He is 94, and losing his grip on a foreign language -- whether he talks to me, an old Cuban friend, or a snow-white blonde nurse at a hospital, everything he says comes out half in English and half in Spanish. He finds it immensely frustrating, and it can be quite difficult to communicate with him unless you know both languages. But, what can you say, this hybrid has become his language. It's not the Spanglish people get worked up about because "these people don't want to learn English," and I think it would be fairly insulting for anyone to try to say that it is. And he's not the only one like this.

People like this deserve Spanish translators, and they deserve to not have you assume it's because they're illegals or they're not going to or are unwilling to pay for their care.

I understand the demographics of modern immigration, and I know people like this are not who you all are talking about, and are a subset of the larger issue. But the thing is, everyone still needs to realize "Spanish-speaking" patients includes an awful lot of people, from dozens of countries, and in countless different situations in terms of culture, language, education, time in this country, and so on. This diversity only increases as the population grows, more generations are born, live and die here, and as successive generations make varying degrees of inroads into mainstream English speaking society in terms of education and employment.

 

[jocg27]

On a related note, it's no longer true (and probably wasn't ever) that Spanish is useful only in border states or big cities. Any medium or small city now has some population of Spanish speakers, and plenty of rural areas do as well, in states you wouldn't expect. Some of the highest Latino growth rates in the country -- huge, explosive rates -- are in states you'd never intuitively connect with Spanish speakers.

 

[tiredmom]

On a related note, it's no longer true (and probably wasn't ever) that Spanish is useful only in border states or big cities. Any medium or small city now has some population of Spanish speakers, and plenty of rural areas do as well, in states you wouldn't expect. Some of the highest Latino growth rates in the country -- huge, explosive rates -- are in states you'd never intuitively connect with Spanish speakers.

You are right on target! Who would expect Northern Arkansas to be a hotspot? It's very helpful in Texas... obviously. You don't have to go to Spain though, there are some pretty good immersion courses in South America as well that are really cheap! But, it's not beautiful Madrid! Or, just come do an ob rotation in Texas - 80% will speak no english!

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

You are right on target! Who would expect Northern Arkansas to be a hotspot? It's very helpful in Texas... obviously. You don't have to go to Spain though, there are some pretty good immersion courses in South America as well that are really cheap! But, it's not beautiful Madrid! Or, just come do an ob rotation in Texas - 80% will speak no english!

I think I better take spanish classes after I match.

 

[DiveMD]

As a Puerto Rican, fully bilingual physician practicing in the US NAVY, I believe that every single Latino that comes into this country should speak English. I am 100% certain that if you go to a Mexican (or anywhere else in Latin America) Hospital no one will speak English to you. On the other hand, having fluency in a second language is always desired and admired. Learn Spanish if you want to double the amount of patients you can care for, not because it can help your CV look better. Additionally, if you understand Spanish semantics correctly it can actually ease the understanding of many concepts and words in medicine. This is due to the fact that many medical terms come form Latin or some other romantic languages which are very similar to Spanish. Once you understand the real meaning of a word, it's no longer memorization. I guess a classic example could be the four sings of inflammation: Calor, Dolor, Rubor, and Tumor….

 

[FACS]

Es mucho importanto hablar espanol mucho bueno como mi.

Es muy importante hablar espanol muy bien, para mi. 😉

 

[FACS]

Does fluency in Spanish significantly help get into your desired residency, especially if it's in a big city? Im already studying in german, but I assume that won't be very helpful in the US. I studied Spanish awhile ago and lived in South America for a summer. At that time, I was fluent, but I basically forgot it all after I learned German. I think I could pick it back up if I were immersed in a Spanish speaking country again. Is it worth it doing an away rotation in Spain? I think I could set that up pretty easily through my university. Does anyone have experience with that and did it help your application?

If you were ever fluent then you haven't "forgotten" it. All you'd need is to pick up a book in Spanish and read for it to all come back. So there's no real issue here. Should you spend some time in a Spanish speaking country? Well, if you've got the time and the money then, by all means, yes. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. However, if you'd rather just hang out in Heidleberg then do that instead and read a little something in Spanish every day. Either way your Spanish will be up to scratch when you hit the wards.

 

[DiveMD]

Es mucho importanto hablar espanol mucho bueno como mi.

Yo tambien quiero Taco Bell...

 

[med_heidelberg]

If you were ever fluent then you haven't "forgotten" it. All you'd need is to pick up a book in Spanish and read for it to all come back. So there's no real issue here. Should you spend some time in a Spanish speaking country? Well, if you've got the time and the money then, by all means, yes. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. However, if you'd rather just hang out in Heidleberg then do that instead and read a little something in Spanish every day. Either way your Spanish will be up to scratch when you hit the wards.

Interesting discussion going on here. I didnt mean to imply that I have completely forgotten Spanish, I can still read it without a problem and understand a good deal of it .. speaking is my weakness. Since I learned German after I graduated from college and now study medicine in German, it exhausted my foreign language capacity. Now that I am completely fluent in German and use it daily to study and communicate, reactivating Spanish wont be too much effort, hopefully. Ive always wanted to go to Spain so doing a rotation there would be the perfect way to brush up my skills. Also i have heard the atmosphere there is relaxed and chilled .. the students arent pushed too hard and are even encouraged to hit the beach in the afternoons!

 

[DiveMD]

I guess having a few "cañas" during the day is a good way to relax. BTW, "caña" is a small beer usually served with "tapas" throughout Spain. Including Universities and hospitals!!!

 

[spalatin]

Interesting discussion going on here. I didnt mean to imply that I have completely forgotten Spanish, I can still read it without a problem and understand a good deal of it .. speaking is my weakness. Since I learned German after I graduated from college and now study medicine in German, it exhausted my foreign language capacity. Now that I am completely fluent in German and use it daily to study and communicate, reactivating Spanish wont be too much effort, hopefully. Ive always wanted to go to Spain so doing a rotation there would be the perfect way to brush up my skills. Also i have heard the atmosphere there is relaxed and chilled .. the students arent pushed too hard and are even encouraged to hit the beach in the afternoons!

Aber warum spricht uns kein Deutsch im Verientigen Staaten? Es gibt heir vielen Leuten von Deutschland, nicht wahr? Warum Spanzoish?


Purported to have been overheard on the clearance frequency at Frankfurt/Main Airport (D-FRA)

LH335: Bitte, Lufthansa drie, drie fuenf taxi.
Tower: Lufthansa 335 you must request your clearance in English in accordance with international aviation regulations.
LH335: Tower, I am a German pilot in a German airliner in German city flying to another German city. Why must I ask for my clearance in English?

British Airways unnamed pilot: "Because you lost the bloody war."


I have travelled extensively and am fluent in English, German (my family and home language), know some Russian and some French and a meager amount of spanish. What troubles me is when I travel in Spain or Mexico, no one but me speaks a word of German. Not a single soul. They don't speak English either, in Mexico once you're away from the border towns.

Fact is, we have a need to communicate. English is much more universal in the northern hemisphere than any other language (sorry about that Francofones in Quebec and Paris). It is not only the international language of air traffic control, but mostly of commerce as well. It has been the established language of the US for ever, and although the US has no official language, English in the language used for nearly every communication.

Kazakhstan is trying to re-establish Kazakh as its national language and is fragmenting its population in the process. Until 10 years ago, Russian was its primary language and German its second language. Today it has no clear langauge of commerce, Russian has fallen into disfavor, but is still the language used by nearly everyone educated, German is falling into dis-use with the re-unification of Germany and the repatriation policy, leaving a communications mess.

Do we really want that here? Pick a language, any language, but make it a single language that we can all learn and communicate in. I am so tired of waiting for the telephone message that says Push 1 for English 2 for Spanish and I never hear 3 for Russian 4 for German and 5 for pig-latin. How come?

 

[med_heidelberg]

Most Germans speak English, at least enough to communicate, and the majority of Germans that attended a university are fluent. If they travel to the US, they dont really have too many problems with the language.

No offense meant, but I find it hard to believe that German is your native language .. your post is full of grammatical errors ... when did you learn German?

The fact of the matter is, English is the worlds international language and that isnt going to change. If you dont speak English, its nearly impossible to work abroad in science or economics. This is just the reality of the matter, of course it would be more interesting if more people spoke multiple foreign languages, but most arent willing to put forth the effort to learn them ... they are missing out though!

 

[jocg27]

I have travelled extensively and am fluent in English, German (my family and home language), know some Russian and some French and a meager amount of spanish. What troubles me is when I travel in Spain or Mexico, no one but me speaks a word of German. Not a single soul. They don't speak English either, in Mexico once you're away from the border towns.

I am not sure why you'd expect people in Mexico to speak German.

And it's not really not true that no one in Mexico learns English, either. In Mexico City and other large cities, many educated people and businesspeople do in fact speak English. People not learning it, I think, relates more to overall problems with the Mexican education system, rather than a nationwide disinterest in foreign languages. This is not unique to Mexico -- poor people around the world who don't get a chance to receive an education are likely to know only the language of those around them. Mexico's not in Europe...it's surrounded only by nations to the south that speak its language, and the United States, and many people in Mexico who have the opportunity to learn English do in fact learn it. You just may not see it because these people tend to have jobs and tend to stay in Mexico, while many Americans' idea of what is Mexican is very highly based on those who have left.

Europeans don't learn more languages because they're any better than anyone else, they learn them because they're immediately surrounded by more. There are 4 main languages in the whole western hemisphere - English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese...There are more in western Europe alone. Places surrounded by lots of languages learn languages and other places not so much, it's just what naturally happens...Australians don't spend a huge amount of time studying foreign languages, either.

As the world changes and everything becomes more connected and what immediately surrounds you becomes less important, this will eventually level out. I think it's already starting to...Americans do learn more languages than we used to, and, from here at least, it sure looks like Europeans are beginning to tire of their welcoming multiculturalism approach.

 

[deleted50478]

The problem is not that Americans don't learn enough foreign languages. The problem is that there are so many Mexicans here that they don't feel the intense need to learn English that immigrants should.

 

[asdfaa]

I am not sure why you'd expect people in Mexico to speak German.

And it's not really not true that no one in Mexico learns English, either. In Mexico City and other large cities, many educated people and businesspeople do in fact speak English. People not learning it, I think, relates more to overall problems with the Mexican education system, rather than a nationwide disinterest in foreign languages. This is not unique to Mexico -- poor people around the world who don't get a chance to receive an education are likely to know only the language of those around them. Mexico's not in Europe...it's surrounded only by nations to the south that speak its language, and the United States, and many people in Mexico who have the opportunity to learn English do in fact learn it. You just may not see it because these people tend to have jobs and tend to stay in Mexico, while many Americans' idea of what is Mexican is very highly based on those who have left.

Europeans don't learn more languages because they're any better than anyone else, they learn them because they're immediately surrounded by more. There are 4 main languages in the whole western hemisphere - English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese...There are more in western Europe alone. Places surrounded by lots of languages learn languages and other places not so much, it's just what naturally happens...Australians don't spend a huge amount of time studying foreign languages, either.

As the world changes and everything becomes more connected and what immediately surrounds you becomes less important, this will eventually level out. I think it's already starting to...Americans do learn more languages than we used to, and, from here at least, it sure looks like Europeans are beginning to tire of their welcoming multiculturalism approach.

Great post. People in the English speaking world tend not to be very proactive about learning foreign languages. We have a sort of "they all speak English so why should we learn their language" attitude. We talk about how the "Europeans" are well versed in other languages. That's really only true of non English speaking continentals. The English themselves - along with their ex-colonial satellites (Ireland, Australia etc.) are notoriously unwilling to learn other languages. Try going to London and looking for Spanish, French or German speakers. You won't find many.

I've travelled through Mexico and both South and Central America. It's very true that the further away from the main metropolitan hubs you go, the fewer people there are who speak English. That's true everywhere. Travel through rural France or Bavaria and you'll find the same thing. But I'm always amazed by how many spanish speakers actually do speak English. Even in remote areas. The fact is people in the Spanish speaking world are quite a lot more willing to learn foreign languages than we are.

It may be our lack of proficiency that is the cause of the perception that Spanish speakers don't learn English. I have noticed that when I travel with people who speak no Spanish whatsoever, they tend to complain whenever someone can't direct them in English. It makes sense. Without others who know English they're completely helpless and that's upsetting to them. I on the other hand am always looking for opportunities to practice my Spanish and tend to be annoyed by how many people speak English. It seems like they're everywhere.

Learning a language is hard. Those who have never seriously tried it seem to be unaware of how much work is involved. Language profiency builds slowly. When learning a new language you have to put in a lot of work and and build up a fair amount of knowledge long before you can actually interact significantly in that language. Receptive language builds up much faster than speaking ability. Being a Spanish speaker (not native) I'm always being comandiered in the hospital to interpret for a spanish speaker who "doesn't speak a word of English" only to find that they know a great deal of English but aren't at a level yet where they can freely converse. Many of these "can't speak a word" people are well on their way to English proficiency. You really have to learn a language yourself to be able to assess someone else's language ability and how much work they have already put into it.

In any case, I learn languages because I enjoy it. Having patients who I can practice with is a bonus. It's a lot of fun. It does take investment but the payoff is worthwhile. For me there's no other reason to learn.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Exactly.

There are huge numbers of FMGs that can barely speak English yet program directors have no problem taking them because they want that federal $$$$

The last time I checked....FMGs had to pass the CS.....i think they are all fluent in English.

 

[Mumpu]

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Mexican thing or not, knowing Spanish will make your life that much easier on the wards. Unless of course you enjoy using that Glorious Emperor of All Fomites, the interpreter phone.

 

[Leo I]

Most Germans speak English, at least enough to communicate, and the majority of Germans that attended a university are fluent. If they travel to the US, they dont really have too many problems with the language.

I've found German to be handy for communicating with Hasidic patients with limited English. 😉 👍

 

[MacGyver]

The last time I checked....FMGs had to pass the CS.....i think they are all fluent in English.

Depends on what you mean by fluent. In writing, yes I think they are all fluent.

In speaking, I beg to differ. I've met many FMGs who could barely speak properly. They could write fine, but they couldnt communicate well verbally at all. Its outrageous, and shows you how much of a piss poor job program directors do in screening their FMG applicants. Their medical knowledge is fine, but when you speak so poorly that your patients can barely understand you, thats a problem. Unfortunately most PDs dont give a damn. They want that free medicare $$$ and really dont give a **** if their FMGs can speak english well or not.

Case example:

I was rotating at a community hospital on the west coast in which 90% of the internal med residents were FMGs. All of them had heavy accents. But one in particular stood out. This guy was from an eastern euro country. His medical knowledge was fine, and he could write very well. But his verbal command was absolutely pathetic.

We were rounding on patients with the program director who accepted this FMG. We're at bedside, and the FMG is giving us the admission story. The patient looks increasingly flustered and finally interrupts and says "why cant I understand anybody here!" The ******* PD said "well actually he's doing a very good job telling us your story." Patient says "yes but I cant understand a word he's saying!"

PD says "thats OK, we will translate for you... its more important for us anyways"

Thats ****ing outrageous. A PD openly saying that an intern's inability to speak English is "OK." This woman has some nerve, what a prick.

This PD is absolutely irresponsible and a scumbag; she obviously doesnt give a damn whether hte patients can actually understand anytyhing the intern is saying. Its bad for patient care and this bitch doesnt give a **** as long as she gets to fill her crappy residency program, get her slave labor, and her
100k Medicare fund per resident per year.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Depends on what you mean by fluent. In writing, yes I think they are all fluent.

In speaking, I beg to differ. I've met many FMGs who could barely speak properly. They could write fine, but they couldnt communicate well verbally at all. Its outrageous, and shows you how much of a piss poor job program directors do in screening their FMG applicants. Their medical knowledge is fine, but when you speak so poorly that your patients can barely understand you, thats a problem. Unfortunately most PDs dont give a damn. They want that free medicare $$$ and really dont give a **** if their FMGs can speak english well or not.

Case example:

I was rotating at a community hospital on the west coast in which 90% of the internal med residents were FMGs. All of them had heavy accents. But one in particular stood out. This guy was from an eastern euro country. His medical knowledge was fine, and he could write very well. But his verbal command was absolutely pathetic.

We were rounding on patients with the program director who accepted this FMG. We're at bedside, and the FMG is giving us the admission story. The patient looks increasingly flustered and finally interrupts and says "why cant I understand anybody here!" The ******* PD said "well actually he's doing a very good job telling us your story." Patient says "yes but I cant understand a word he's saying!"

PD says "thats OK, we will translate for you... its more important for us anyways"

Thats ****ing outrageous. A PD openly saying that an intern's inability to speak English is "OK." This woman has some nerve, what a prick.

This PD is absolutely irresponsible and a scumbag; she obviously doesnt give a damn whether hte patients can actually understand anytyhing the intern is saying. Its bad for patient care and this bitch doesnt give a **** as long as she gets to fill her crappy residency program, get her slave labor, and her
100k Medicare fund per resident per year.

Forget the PD.....cases like this should not have passed the CS...

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Mexican thing or not, knowing Spanish will make your life that much easier on the wards. Unless of course you enjoy using that Glorious Emperor of All Fomites, the interpreter phone.

at the hospital i am at......there is always the option to go and get the cute translator chick!

 

[Faebinder]

Depends on what you mean by fluent. In writing, yes I think they are all fluent.

In speaking, I beg to differ. I've met many FMGs who could barely speak properly. They could write fine, but they couldnt communicate well verbally at all. Its outrageous, and shows you how much of a piss poor job program directors do in screening their FMG applicants. Their medical knowledge is fine, but when you speak so poorly that your patients can barely understand you, thats a problem. Unfortunately most PDs dont give a damn. They want that free medicare $$$ and really dont give a **** if their FMGs can speak english well or not.

Case example:

I was rotating at a community hospital on the west coast in which 90% of the internal med residents were FMGs. All of them had heavy accents. But one in particular stood out. This guy was from an eastern euro country. His medical knowledge was fine, and he could write very well. But his verbal command was absolutely pathetic.

We were rounding on patients with the program director who accepted this FMG. We're at bedside, and the FMG is giving us the admission story. The patient looks increasingly flustered and finally interrupts and says "why cant I understand anybody here!" The ******* PD said "well actually he's doing a very good job telling us your story." Patient says "yes but I cant understand a word he's saying!"

PD says "thats OK, we will translate for you... its more important for us anyways"

Thats ****ing outrageous. A PD openly saying that an intern's inability to speak English is "OK." This woman has some nerve, what a prick.

This PD is absolutely irresponsible and a scumbag; she obviously doesnt give a damn whether hte patients can actually understand anytyhing the intern is saying. Its bad for patient care and this bitch doesnt give a **** as long as she gets to fill her crappy residency program, get her slave labor, and her
100k Medicare fund per resident per year.

Ahhh, allow me to point out something.... Only in the last two years or so has the TOEFL been waived off and instead the CS of Step 2 fully used. TOEFL used to be a joke. If you can read what I am typing now then you can pass the TOEFL. The CS exam on the other hand is increasing in difficulty this year according to the USMLE. It will take a while for the batches of FMG in residency and even more time for the ones finished with residency to be up to standard with English. There is also the factor that PDs seem to give English speaking capability during the interviews less importance than the basic things like USMLE scores.

That CS that people hate so much might be a good thing.

 

[toofache32]

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Mexican thing or not, knowing Spanish will make your life that much easier on the wards.

I have enough work that it doesn't add to my time to just get a translator. I can get several other things done during the 20-30 minutes it takes to get a translator. It's the patient's loss if they have lived here 30 years and still won't try the native language.

The problem is not that Americans don't learn enough foreign languages. The problem is that there are so many Mexicans here that they don't feel the intense need to learn English that immigrants should.

Exactly. They can get away with this because they are all flooding our county and can hide within their own communities. You don't see this same phenomenon in Mexico because Americans aren't running across the border to live in Mexico. But that still doesn't mean that I should be required to learn a foreigner's language in my own country.

 

[Attila]

But that still doesn't mean that I should be required to learn a foreigner's language in my own country.

I agree. It's ridiculous too, that our kid's have to learn about foreigner's countries in school. Geography classes should be banned. The same goes for those damn newspapers and current affairs shows. They're always featuring things going on in foreigner's countries. We shouldn't be required to sit through that garbage just to hear about what's going on in the USA. I'm an AMERICAN. I just want to speak AMERICAN and live in AMERICA. Enough with foreigners. Let's keep America for Americans. Foreigners get out!

 

[toofache32]

I agree. It's ridiculous too, that our kid's have to learn about foreigner's countries in school. Geography classes should be banned. The same goes for those damn newspapers and current affairs shows. They're always featuring things going on in foreigner's countries. We shouldn't be required to sit through that garbage just to hear about what's going on in the USA. I'm an AMERICAN. I just want to speak AMERICAN and live in AMERICA. Enough with foreigners. Let's keep America for Americans. Foreigners get out!

Nice way to extrapolate some irrelevant and unrelated ideas. What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about the crazy idea that it is MY job to put forth the time and effort for what these people have brought upon themselves.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I agree. It's ridiculous too, that our kid's have to learn about foreigner's countries in school. Geography classes should be banned. The same goes for those damn newspapers and current affairs shows. They're always featuring things going on in foreigner's countries. We shouldn't be required to sit through that garbage just to hear about what's going on in the USA. I'm an AMERICAN. I just want to speak AMERICAN and live in AMERICA. Enough with foreigners. Let's keep America for Americans. Foreigners get out!

Where did this nut come from???

 

[Attila]

Nice way to extrapolate some irrelevant and unrelated ideas. What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about the crazy idea that it is MY job to put forth the time and effort for what these people have brought upon themselves.

Yeah, I'm with ya man. It's about time we put the foreigners in their place. 👍