How important is summer research after MS-I? Can you do research later???

[fallen rock]

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I'm a MS-I and I was talking to some upper classmen who told me that if I'm interested in pursuing a competitive specialty, I should do research during the summer after first year.

So here's the deal. I don't have any idea on what I want to specialize in. I want to be open minded to all specialties too. Originally, I was planning to relax this summer, travel a bit and maybe do a 4 week preceptorship. After all, it is my last summer and I want a break from research (I've been doing it all during undergrad).

Would I be screwing myself over if I don't do research this summer and then later on in my 2nd or 3rd year, I suddenly realize - Eureka! 😱 I'm in love with optho or derm or rad-onc or some other competitive field?

I don't want to close doors on myself... and I don't want to have any regrets later either....

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[sendwich]

From what I've heard, summer after M1 is not the only time you can do decent research. A couple of upperclassmen I've talked to waited until after board scores to choose their fields. One girl (M3) did really well and decided to go derm and did her research at the start of M3. I'm not sure exactly how she fit that in and yeah, you're going be rushed (since our schedules get pretty tight fast) but it IS doable.

 

[mashnuts]

I'm not a 4th year yet with my match location in hand so my advice might not be 100% accurate.

But what I've been told thus far is that research in med school (yes, even research in that first summer after MS1) is basically to get your feet wet and to show a general curiosity for academia. Having a publication from this kind of research is obviously better than having no publications at all. But most PDs know that the time spent on that project is not significant enough to reflect true understanding or outstanding commitment to and of that project. (I can count on one hand the number of classmates who took no time off, got a publication, and was able to break into the middle of the list of names on the publication)

I've been told that research that is genuinely meaningful usually requires taking a year off so that you can rack up publications and hopefully, get yourself higher on the long list of names. (The higher it is, the more involved you were, generally.)

 

[MSKalltheway]

Your school may offer research rotations during 4th year elective time where you can delve into research more specific to the field you are going into. Generally its only 4 weeks and not enough for much of anything, but its at least something.

 

[MsJLewis]

So do all people who match in derm, optho, rads, etc.. have publications? Do most who match into these specialties take a year off to do in-depth research and rack up publications??

 

[Law2Doc]

So do all people who match in derm, optho, rads, etc.. have publications? Do most who match into these specialties take a year off to do in-depth research and rack up publications??

A good percentage do have publications. And a lot of it doesn't come from the summer after first year. I know of some folks who took a research year off after second year to ensure some specialty specific publications. Not everyone does -- some brainiacs have the ability to get honors while squeezing a few hours of research in during the day the first couple of years. Most mortals can't do this. The summer after first year is popular because you truly won't have anything else you need to do (assuming you didn't fail anything), so lots of people do some research then. But you may not be able to publish in such a short time frame unless you do a case report or chart review.

 

[Gabujabu]

It should also be noted that most of the publications that medical students list on their residency applications consist of chart reviews and case reports, which while they are helpful, certainly don't require a huge kind of time commitment.

 

[sendwich]

It should also be noted that most of the publications that medical students list on their residency applications consist of chart reviews and case reports, which while they are helpful, certainly don't require a huge kind of time commitment.

the truly "meaningful" research projects are the one from basic sciences. (they take more work and PD's know that)

 

[Long Dong]

After all, it is my last summer.

You said it yourself it is the last summer to get things done (vacation vs research). Between 2nd and 3rd year you have boards, so no time there. During 3rd year rotations are hard enough trying to do well in, let alone add some research, like L2D said us mear mortal just can't do it, if you are super smart then it won't be a problem. Summer between 3rd and 4th to late won't be published by interview season. I submitted a paper in July begining of 4th year it finally got accepted for publication in Feb right before the match and published in April. It would've helped out alot more if I had it on my residency application as a publication then as a submission. So just bite the bullet and do it if you have the slightest inclination to do something competitive. Later if you change your mind and do FP then well I least you had you bases covered and it would definately beef up you FP application. Trust me when you match into your dream res/specialty it will be all worth it to get you foot in the door and to maybe build connections or a project that you can continue threw out med school. You well say that 2 months of vacation you gave up is much better then being stuck in a specialty you don't really want or taking off a whole year to do research. Man I'm so glad I only have 2 more months of overnight call.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

the truly "meaningful" research projects are the one from basic sciences. (they take more work and PD's know that)

Unfortunately, NRMP doesn't record any difference between what type of research/publications when they tabulate stuff like "Charting Outcomes" in the Match", which is the best objective data I've seen on how important certain factors are.

Not to discount the "I've heard a PD say..." type stuff, but a best it's anecdotal.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

You can take a loot at it there if you feel like it. The general consensus I see is:

In general, most med students have at least some research experience. (Summary Stats, Page 5. Also Charts 12 and 13 page 13-14).

However, presence of research/publications is not a significant predictor overall to match sucess (Regression Model, Page 16).

That said, again, they don't take into account the quality or type of research done, so it's not that great.

 

[Cmercury1]

Unfortunately, NRMP doesn't record any difference between what type of research/publications when they tabulate stuff like "Charting Outcomes" in the Match", which is the best objective data I've seen on how important certain factors are.

Not to discount the "I've heard a PD say..." type stuff, but a best it's anecdotal.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

You can take a loot at it there if you feel like it. The general consensus I see is:

In general, most med students have at least some research experience. (Summary Stats, Page 5. Also Charts 12 and 13 page 13-14).

However, presence of research/publications is not a significant predictor overall to match sucess (Regression Model, Page 16).

That said, again, they don't take into account the quality or type of research done, so it's not that great.

I was just about to bring this up. I hear everyone saying that research is important, but these data seem to be saying just the opposite. Perhaps if they differentiated between posters and publications, there'd be some different conclusions. Also, what exactly does "number of research experiences" mean? What if you work in the same lab for three years? Is that one research experience? My interpretation of this is that if you can get basic research publication or near first authorship, that'll help, but doing research for a summer just for the heck of it and presenting to your fellow classmates is not going to count for much.

 

[Reimat]

Would I be screwing myself over if I don't do research this summer and then later on in my 2nd or 3rd year, I suddenly realize - Eureka! 😱 I'm in love with optho or derm or rad-onc or some other competitive field?

I don't want to close doors on myself... and I don't want to have any regrets later either....

Any advice would be appreciated.

So I'm a M2 with a few pubs/presentations that I have put together in my first 1.5 years. The summer after M1 is not the only time to do research, nor your best shot at a pub. I started a research project in March of my 1st year, finished it in June prior to summer and recently submitted an abstract to a conference and I'm working on putting together a paper. It was a clinical research project - but I completely designed and carried it out.

My point is that if you want to go on an international trip or do public service work this summer - go for it! If you're motivated and active there is a TON of time in first and second year to do research (and I even go to class most of the time, run various groups, etc...)

 

[Long Dong]

So I'm a M2 with a few pubs/presentations that I have put together in my first 1.5 years. The summer after M1 is not the only time to do research, nor your best shot at a pub. I started a research project in March of my 1st year, finished it in June prior to summer and recently submitted an abstract to a conference and I'm working on putting together a paper. It was a clinical research project - but I completely designed and carried it out.

My point is that if you want to go on an international trip or do public service work this summer - go for it! If you're motivated and active there is a TON of time in first and second year to do research (and I even go to class most of the time, run various groups, etc...)

You just must be one of those super smart guys then, but like I was saying us mear mortals can't seem to do well in school and get pubs out at the same time. Well at least I can't.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

So I'm a M2 with a few pubs/presentations that I have put together in my first 1.5 years. The summer after M1 is not the only time to do research, nor your best shot at a pub. I started a research project in March of my 1st year, finished it in June prior to summer and recently submitted an abstract to a conference and I'm working on putting together a paper. It was a clinical research project - but I completely designed and carried it out.

My point is that if you want to go on an international trip or do public service work this summer - go for it! If you're motivated and active there is a TON of time in first and second year to do research (and I even go to class most of the time, run various groups, etc...)

Wow thats good. What other publications did you get during ms1-ms2?

 

[Reimat]

What other publications did you get during ms1-ms2?

A few case reports - nothing too special. I'm trying to take a year off to do more research next year, hopefully something a little more basic science oriented.

 

[Reimat]

You just must be one of those super smart guys then, but like I was saying us mear mortals can't seem to do well in school and get pubs out at the same time. Well at least I can't.

I think it's probably also school dependent. I've heard some schools have class 8-5, 5 days/week. I'd be screwed if my school did it that way. I also don't mean to downplay doing research between MS1-2, I did and it was an awesome balance of productivity and relaxation. And as Long said in an earlier post, it's a great way to make some connections.

 

[abefromann]

'Pay now or pay later' works wonderfully here. Don't slack off completely this summer and if there's a personal relationship involved (LD, conflict) that's clouding your judgement just F it and do some work this summer. Remember, PDs are looking for how much research $$ you can bring to the table. That said, you should take one month for travelling/chilling if you can and then do two months of research. Any competitive specialty will appreciate that, as it's an unspoken requirement for the most competitive ones. If you end up in peds or family, then you'll be tops.

 

[roja]

If you have no idea what you want to do, do not kill yourself doing research. One should NEVER do research to check off boxes. If you are checking a box, you are more than likely doing crappy research, something that can be smelled a mile away.

Do soemthing you like over the summer. If there is a particular field that has appealed to you, you could consider doing some research in that area.

 

[RxnMan]

...So here's the deal. I don't have any idea on what I want to specialize in. I want to be open minded to all specialties too...

If you decide to research, but are undecided on a speciality, then look at projects studying fundamental processes or diseases that touch on many organs. Inflammation and diabetes (respectively) are examples of this. No matter the field you go into, inflammation and diabetes will be something you deal with.

...Originally, I was planning to relax this summer, travel a bit and maybe do a 4 week preceptorship. After all, it is my last summer and I want a break from research (I've been doing it all during undergrad)...

Take a break if you want to. It will be one of the last times in your life that you will have a long break.

You can set up clinical experiences during a summer research - every Friday I was in a local clinic, M-R was spent in the lab. Most PIs are flexible and will let you out of the lab if you fufill your end of the bargain and consistently get your work done.

...Would I be screwing myself over if I don't do research this summer and then later on in my 2nd or 3rd year, I suddenly realize - Eureka! 😱 I'm in love with optho or derm or rad-onc or some other competitive field?...

Probably not. Lots of people match without research. You can use this summer to find out if you like any of those fields you mentioned by shadowing docs.

 

[abcess]

If you have no idea what you want to do, do not kill yourself doing research. One should NEVER do research to check off boxes. If you are checking a box, you are more than likely doing crappy research, something that can be smelled a mile away.

Do soemthing you like over the summer. If there is a particular field that has appealed to you, you could consider doing some research in that area.

While I tend to agree with you, there are some specialties where having research experience is kind of a prerequisite. Also, I have found that the quality of research is really dependent on the PI and lab rather than the motiviation of the student. A lot of the good labs that publish a lot at my school have filled up with summer students already, leaving plenty of motivated students to work on projects that they don't care for.

 

[Long Dong]

While I tend to agree with you, there are some specialties where having research experience is kind of a prerequisite. Also, I have found that the quality of research is really dependent on the PI and lab rather than the motiviation of the student. A lot of the good labs that publish a lot at my school have filled up with summer students already, leaving plenty of motivated students to work on projects that they don't care for.

Agreed some specialties like plastics, derm, rad onc almost everyone has research/pubs. If you are applying to one of these without it your app well be seen as lacking something everyone else has. Again another case of the early bird catching the worm, and of who you know mattering more then what you know. Research is to make those connections do you want a LOR saying I've known/worked with so and so for 2 years or do you want the LOR saying I've known/worked with so and so for a 1 month rotation?