How important is the 'caliber' of audition rotations?

[alexibluezz]

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Third-year looking to apply EM next season. I applied to a bunch of non-VSAS programs, shotgun approach, after hearing stories of how people got zero auditions last year...or maybe one. Now I'm wondering if I should apply VSAS as well (with the risk of having to burn a couple bridges).

My question: does the reputation of the program I get my SLOEs from really matter? Is a top 1/3 basically a top 1/3, regardless of where it's from? Or will I face some bias, having SLOEs from relatively no-name programs...?

 

[surely]

Now I'm wondering if I should apply VSAS as well (with the risk of having to burn a couple bridges).

Just wanna take a second and correct this misconception: This is a common worry among M3s, but programs REALLY don't mind if you decline an Away rotation as long as you do it in a timely fashion (6 weeks is ideal). You won't burn a bridge by doing it this way.

A top 1/3rd SLOE from a competitive program mayyyy be more impressive to PDs, but is likely harder to get, verging on "crapshoot." Look up the PDF of the SLOE online and you'll see that it directly compares you to your peers. If you're rotating at a competitive program, the "peers" there are more impressive and more challenging to outshine. Not worth the risk, in my experience - I always advise students to aim for a middle of the road program in a place you could see yourself.

 

[mymembernames]

How do you know about the non-VSAS programs?

 

[TheComebacKid]

Rotate at a program that you are interested in going to for residency. Try to get the best SLOE you can. That's all.

 

[alexibluezz]

How do you know about the non-VSAS programs?

Most of them describe their preferred application process on their website (e.g., use VSAS, fill out form, contact coordinator, etc.). There were a few whose preference I found out about at a fair, too.

 

[Gray Fox]

Just wanna take a second and correct this misconception: This is a common worry among M3s, but programs REALLY don't mind if you decline an Away rotation as long as you do it in a timely fashion (6 weeks is ideal). You won't burn a bridge by doing it this way.

A top 1/3rd SLOE from a competitive program mayyyy be more impressive to PDs, but is likely harder to get, verging on "crapshoot." Look up the PDF of the SLOE online and you'll see that it directly compares you to your peers. If you're rotating at a competitive program, the "peers" there are more impressive and more challenging to outshine. Not worth the risk, in my experience - I always advise students to aim for a middle of the road program in a place you could see yourself.

Told my SLOE was more impressive bc i did well in a competitive program that gives out few Hs/top 10%. High risk, high reward.

 

[RPedigo]

I agree with a lot of the sentiment in this tread. You should rotate at a place that is a good fit for your application; if you are a less competitive applicant rotating at a top-tier residency program, there are two drawbacks to this. (1) even if you crush your rotation, it is less likely to result in a successful match there if your application is otherwise not consistent with matching at that program, and (2) you will be rotating with highly-competitive students most likely, and your SLOE is a direct comparison to those individuals; this may lead to a less favorable SLOE. Rotate at a place you'd like to go and that is a good fit for your application and get the best SLOE you can. Yes, it is more impressive if someone is top 10% from a top-tier institution, but it is also important to realistically evaluate how likely your performance is to fall in that range at such a place.

If a student turns down my invitation to rotate there, I would not hold that against them at all for the interview process. If a student accepted the invitation to rotate and then canceled last-minute (without a good excuse like a family emergency or something) where I couldn't reasonably fill it with any of the many other students who would have loved to rotate, I would not extend them a residency interview.

 

[TheOne13]

Almost in the exact same position as you OP. I've applied to a few non-VSAS programs because I wanted to at least lock up some audition rotations after hearing about people last year who struggled to get them. However, most of these programs aren't necessarily my "top" places. Don't get me wrong, I'm still interested in them, but there are other programs I'm more interested in. I just figured it would be better to lock up some places to make sure I had SLOEs on time.

I also have the same concern about canceling after accepting a spot. Obviously, I wouldn't cancel unless I could give 6 weeks notice and I'd only do it if I got an offer to some place I really want to check out, but I'm still concerned about possible repercussions especially since I wouldn't be canceling due to an actual emergency. Some people have said coordinators "get it" and that things like this happen, and others have said they felt like they weren't interviewed at those places. I personally would feel bad if I accepted and then canceled, but it's frustrating especially because offers have to be responded to within a certain time frame and you're still waiting to hear back from another place.

 

[HopefulEMed]

Depends on how well you perform clinically. How did you do in your third year? Were your letters always glowing? Did they comment on how strong your clinical acumen was? If yes to the above questions, then definitely go with top-tier places.

In my experience, I find that the name of the school makes a tiny difference but the thing that's really impressive is the "Honors" on multiple rotations...with the caveat that these institutions don't hand them out like candy (like 80% H...and yes, there's a highly prestigious institution that gives out that many Hs).

It also depends on the rest of your application. If you have >225 Step I, >235 Step II (ballparking these numbers), a mid-tier Honors will get you plenty far. However, if you have a low score on either test, multiple Honors at highly prestigious programs will speak volumes. And programs are more than likely to look over your low board scores because of your SLOEs.

However, if you get a bottom 1/3rd at say, like Denver (which is notoriously difficult to "H" in). That will haunt you

 

[gamerEMdoc]

All depends on your competitiveness and where you want to end up for residency. Your rotations should always be at some of the top places you are considering if possible. If you are a competitive candidate that will be applying to top tier places, then they’ll probably care where your SLOEs come from. If you are applying to lesser known programs, they really won’t care. It’s all about being competitive within your personal competitive window. If you are a really average student but somehow get a rotation at a top tier place, you will be competing with top tier students for the SLOE rankings and it can very well make you look worse.

 

[mega_colon]

Rotate at a program you want to be at or in a region you want to match. 75% of my co residents rotated here, the rest had regional ties.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Rotate at a program you want to be at or in a region you want to match. 75% of my co residents rotated here, the rest had regional ties.

Yep. Thats pretty typical for how the match works out. Its not because programs have a bias towards students that rotate, but rather students tend to rotate at the programs they want to go to, and most people match at one of their top 3 places. Therefore, the majority of candidates wind up matching somewhere they rotate.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Only the highest caliber

second place is first place loser